halo twenty eight. hesitation marks. 09.03.2013

[sheepdean]

Um, I'm fairly sure Josh Wink wrote the whole album

[timdotexe]

Um, I'm fairly sure Josh Wink wrote the whole album

lol, next someone will tell me this wasn't written and produced by Brad Strider!
http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=3579

[Warped_Savant]

Um, I'm fairly sure Josh Wink wrote the whole album
But Trent noodled with it a little, so it's all good.

[Emil Dorbell]

still looking for a edit copy of it I can put on my car cd for them.

Yup, can't have kids hearing blasphemous words. All hail Jesus.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Regarding HM ghost writing, I don't think Trent would emphasize how honest to who he is and how he feels now he is being with HM if he wasn't the main force behind the songs, both lyrically and melodically. Yeah, he had some musicians play some instruments that Trent then (according to Ilan) chopped up to the extent that he doesn't even know what parts are him, but I highly doubt HM is ghost written.
idk, prove me wrong, I know I'm not right all the time. I just see no evidence that suggests otherwise.

Lol, his announcement was something to the affect of "i haven't been honest about what i've been doing lately but...."

And i'm not saying it's a 100% ghost written. I'm saying that to my ear, it feels as though Trent's participation in the creation of HM was at a much higher level than normal for a NIN release. I'm sure he wrote his own lyrics (regrettably), and that he came up with the major ideas for the songs. But i feel like the crafting of the songs was done by others.

Again, this is wild speculation, but i've been listening to NIN for 20+ years at this point, and something about this sounds decidedly un-TRez. And it has nothing to do with the style of music.

[HurtinMinorKey]

EDIT: by the way, i just looked through britney spears' albums on wikipedia. she doesn't have any sole writing credits at all. and doesn't have any writing credits on most of her songs. can't see how there's much ghostwriting there, either.

Earlier I was talking about the progression of her first few albums, not the latest ones.

[m15a]

But i feel like the crafting of the songs was done by others.

Again, this is wild speculation, but i've been listening to NIN for 20+ years at this point, and something about this sounds decidedly un-TRez. And it has nothing to do with the style of music.

what do you mean by crafting? and how is the album un-TR? and can those differences not be explained by NIN's conscious effort to differentiate the albums in various ways (as described in interviews - differences in composition process, recording, and mixing)? you have to understand that you are making a pretty bold claim. and if you're just going to say, "well, that's how i feel", well, no one's going to bother considering what you say.


Earlier I was talking about the progression of her first few albums, not the latest ones.

i see what you're saying, but ghostwriting doesn't mean crediting somebody that didn't contribute that significantly, it means not crediting somebody that did contribute significantly. maybe what i saw on wikipedia doesn't match what is written in the liner notes, but if it does, you can only claim ghostwriting if the composition was by someone not credited on the tracks at all. why would there be half a dozen writers listed if the actual writer was someone else entirely? i don't want to argue the definition of ghostwriting, but in any case, the example of britney spears is way different than what you're claiming about NIN and TR.

[Halo Infinity]

I'm pushing 30 with 3 kids and I love it more and more every time I hear it. Its honestly the only thing I've been listening to since the leak. My kids love it too, I have to edit all time low on my own with the volume though, lol still looking for a edit copy of it I can put on my car cd for them.
Ryan Tollefson - Then perhaps you might like this topic. And I've always wondered about things like that, hence me making that thread. It's always interested me too. And this is just me, but perhaps you won't have to worry about such things when all/any of them at least reach ages 11 and 12 as kids.

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/387-Nine-Inch-Nails-amp-Children

As for Hesitation Marks, it seemed very in line to Pretty Hate Machine and With Teeth to me, but I am also willing to be with the camp that calls it the best NIN has ever released since The Fragile, but with the exception of Year Zero still putting up some sort of fight. And as far as a new NIN release, I've definitely been interested in it more than The Slip for some reason too. (Not to rag on The Slip or anything like that.)

[sick among the pure]

Lol, his announcement was something to the affect of "i haven't been honest about what i've been doing lately but...."

Yeah, meaning he wrote a full album when we were only told/expecting the 2 songs for the Greatest Hits album. Not "I haven't been honest, none of this music is actually me at all lololololo"

[HurtinMinorKey]

Yeah, meaning he wrote a full album when we were only told/expecting the 2 songs for the Greatest Hits album. Not "I haven't been honest, none of this music is actually me at all lololololo"

Yes, TR the shining knight of truth and honesty. Remember, this is the same guy that had to cancel a show because he OD'd then blames it on Jerome Dillon.

[Demogorgon]

Yes, TR the shining knight of truth and honesty. Remember, this is the same guy that had to cancel a show because he OD'd then blames it on Jerome Dillon.

wait wait wait. Jerome had a legitimate issue that eventually pulled him out of the tour. it was a pretty big topic around here at the time, and if I remember right, Jerome himself talked about it. where are you getting some of this information?

[HurtinMinorKey]

what do you mean by crafting? and how is the album un-TR? and can those differences not be explained by NIN's conscious effort to differentiate the albums in various ways (as described in interviews - differences in composition process, recording, and mixing)? you have to understand that you are making a pretty bold claim. and if you're just going to say, "well, that's how i feel", well, no one's going to bother considering what you say.


I mean, it sounds like a lot of the melodies and arrangements were not TR's work. I am used to hearing what you call "NIN's conscious effort to differentiate the albums in various ways", but there has always been a familiar style that permeates the details. Not so with HM (with some exceptions on a few songs).

I understand that I am making a bold claim. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I expected a bunch of facepalms. But i appreciate people's thoughtful responses. I am a little surprised that no one else seems to know what I'm talking about.

[HurtinMinorKey]

wait wait wait. Jerome had a legitimate issue that eventually pulled him out of the tour. it was a pretty big topic around here at the time, and if I remember right, Jerome himself talked about it. where are you getting some of this information?

http://www.ninwiki.com/2000/07/01_London,_UK

or

http://www.ninwiki.com/Trent_Reznor

[WorzelG]

wait wait wait. Jerome had a legitimate issue that eventually pulled him out of the tour. it was a pretty big topic around here at the time, and if I remember right, Jerome himself talked about it. where are you getting some of this information?

He's referring to the 'lost weekend' show in London in 2000 where that did happen, but with hindsight I can understand the reasons.

[BRoswell]

Yes, TR the shining knight of truth and honesty. Remember, this is the same guy that had to cancel a show because he OD'd then blames it on Jerome Dillon.

Right, because THAT'S the thing to bring up in this debate. :rolleyes:

Also, your comment about listening to NIN for 20+ years doesn't make you any more of an expert. We get it. You don't like the album, but trying to justify your dislike of the album by making these claims is silly. Unless you've got some evidence other than "that's what it sounds like to me", I don't think anyone should take you seriously.

[r_z]

Trent would never enlist a ghostwriter.

His software generating generic NIN lyrics out of the typical phrases he's using since day one would be of no use anymore.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Also, your comment about listening to NIN for 20+ years doesn't make you any more of an expert. We get it. You don't like the album, but trying to justify your dislike of the album by making these claims is silly.

I don't dislike the album, it's just kinda worn off on me. The production is great, and there are some great moments, but I'm used to NIN albums being growers. However, since i don't have any evidence, and no one is agreeing with me, i will desist.

[fillow]

Josh Wink's cover is about to blow.

[icecream]

I think HM ranks up with TDS and TF. My opinion out of the way, as for the ghost writing thing, I think I get what your saying. Alan Moulder and Atticus Ross may have played a larger role in the studio, hence a different sound. I don't necessarily agree with this though. To me, it struck me as very Trent like. Sure, its different, but so was YZ, which was very un-NIN but still sounded like it belonged in the NIN discography. I mean, listen to PHM then Broken. It's still very NIN like even though they have extremely different sounds. To me, HM is the same way. It's different from what Trent has tried in the past, but it has a unique, "this could have only been done by Trent" type of vibe.

[icecream]

Who is Josh Wink?

[jesus]

first time in my whole life that I want to facepalm to death a comment, damn you lack of "sacred power of facepalming!" DAMN YOU!

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Hot damn, the Hesitation Marks vinyl absolutely kills in terms of sound quality. That "stretch across the sky" part of ATL is just sublime :eek:

[Reznor2112]

Is it just me or is Satellite a blatant Year Zero leftover with 2013 production...

the lyrics dont seem to fit with the HM but I didnt make the album, I may be completely wrong.

[AlanMorlock]

Is it just me or is Satellite a blatant Year Zero leftover with 2013 production...

the lyrics dont seem to fit with the HM but I didnt make the album, I may be completely wrong.

Similar to Everything, Satellite was originally written and recorded to be included as extra tracks on a Best Of album, rather than being written as part of what later became this album. At least it came out better than Everything did.

[tony.parente]

Is it just me or is Satellite a blatant Year Zero leftover with 2013 production...

the lyrics dont seem to fit with the HM but I didnt make the album, I may be completely wrong.

That's the first thing I thought, was that it was an unrecorded Year Zero leftover.

[jessamineny]

I'm not sure it's literally a YZ leftover, but it definitely doesn't fit on HM.

[BenAkenobi]

Came back haunted doesn't fit more

[jesus]

LOL Satellite does fit in the album, it's main theme is Paranoia wich makes sense in Hesitation Marks

[Ryan]

Thank you jesus.

[jessamineny]

LOL Satellite does fit in the album, it's main theme is Paranoia wich makes sense in Hesitation Marks

Meh. That's like saying the main theme of "Kinda I Want To" is about wanting things that are bad for you, so it fits.

[jesus]

Meh. That's like saying the main theme of "Kinda I Want To" is about wanting things that are bad for you, so it fits.
LOL no its not, accept your mistake, get over it

[piggy]

To me, "Satellite" works on HM because I don't think of it as paranoia in a big-brother/police state sort of way. I think of it as a song about a disciplinarian version of Trent who is watching real world Trent to make sure he doesn't fuck up, as in fall off the wagon of sobriety.

[BRoswell]

To me, "Satellite" works on HM because I don't think of it as paranoia in a big-brother/police state sort of way. I think of it as a song about a disciplinarian version of Trent who is watching real world Trent to make sure he doesn't fuck up, as in fall off the wagon of sobriety.

This. It certainly COULD work on Year Zero, but I don't see the theme behind it being limited to just "the government is spying on you".

[r_z]

LOL Satellite does fit in the album, it's a song by Nine Inch Nails wich makes sense in Hesitation Marks

[fillow]

I think in some cases to not really fit with the other songs on the album is the only way for a song to be released on said album instead of being shitcanned for being too similar to other songs.
Does it make sense?

[Volband]

I'm fine with songs "not fitting into the album", since it's such a bullshit thing to say anyway, it's a compliment rather, if we are not talking about a concept album. My only problem is when people were saying that Everything is great, because it breaks the album at the very best time, and blah blah blah, like jesus fucking christ, don't act like some music critic. If it fits the flow it's awesome, but if it breaks the flow it's awesome too? So in the end it doesn't really matters if it fits or breaks it, right? Then shut up.

I like Everything, but it sounds out of place, and not simply on HM, but sequence-wise; it's not a middle song at all, and the middle part of HM is a big clusterfuck - which I really don't care about, since it's not a concept album, but then again, don't try to explain why Everything fits, when it doesn't.

Also, recently I've been traveling ~6 hours a week on trains, so I've got plenty of time listening HM from beginning to the end, and I was quite surprised to realize, that Disappointed is not the biggest fuck up on this album, but I Would For You. Disappointed is a story of Trent trying to make good music, but thinking back the times he was high 0-24, he got tripped again, so just fell asleep on the mixing board, howewer, you can still listen to it, and the first thrid of the song is actually good. BUT!!! I Would For You is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad and generic. Yes, I say generic, I, who loves EDIETS, THTF and has nothing againts Starfuckers and Everything. "Seeeeeeee Iaaaaaam dyiiiiiing tooooooooo myseeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllffffff (dyyyyiiiiiing toooooo myyyyseeeeeeellfffff..." - wtf. The ending of the song is superb, beautiful, etc, but if someone would ask me "hey, isn't it Nine Inch Nails?" I'd say no, and rather show them Kinda I Want To, or something, saying that's NIN. I got really worked up when I realized how bad that song was, and I'm still mad.

The rest of the album is great, even Running and Everything, I learned to appreciate and like both of them (especially Running, I want to see it live!), I fell in love with Copy Of A, ATL and In Two, While I'm Still Here is still beautiful, CBH is still not boring to me, and Satellite+VMOE are still my favourites. If Trent mashed up Disappointed (first third) and I Would For You (last third), and filled up the middle section with some more good music (or tambourine), the album would be a 10/10 for me.

[BenAkenobi]

...BUT!!! I Would For You is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad and generic. Yes, I say generic, I, who loves EDIETS, THTF and has nothing againts Starfuckers and Everything. "Seeeeeeee Iaaaaaam dyiiiiiing tooooooooo myseeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllffffff (dyyyyiiiiiing toooooo myyyyseeeeeeellfffff..." - wtf...

when i first heard I Would For You i thought: oh, Ruiner once again, nice try. oh and then some We're in the together, okay.

[R-Dot-Yung]

I Would For You is dope you guys are bugging. And I thought the lyrics are "And I keep lying to myself" which makes a lot of sense in context of the song and the album.

So...NEWP, IWFY rocks my socks, that end "solo" is everything I loved about With Teeth except inside of a better production/composition.

[Rdm]

I would for you is really good. My second favorite behind in two

[icecream]

I wish they would play I Would for You more on this tour!

[r_z]

Volband is absolutely right about IWFY being generic. It's basically EDIETS Part two, musically. Note, how it also doesn't fit the "we wanted to make the choruses calmer than usual" concept Trent spoke about a number of times (same goes for CBH a.o.).

HM in general meanders between interesting production and generic/needless songs (TEOD feels like a song soley put on the album for the sake of having some kind of important intro on there, Satellite doesn't fit into the concept lyrically, Everthing doesn't fit the concept musically, CBH has some of the most awful NIN lyrics ever put on beat, etc). It feels like a record that was made for the sake of it ("look, what I'm able to do with my laptopz, omg!!!"), not because it HAD to be made. Hence the feeling of Trent just throwing random lyrics on top of it while selling it as a 20th-anniversary-of-TDS-thinking marathon.

[BRoswell]

"Seeeeeeee Iaaaaaam dyiiiiiing tooooooooo myseeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllffffff (dyyyyiiiiiing toooooo myyyyseeeeeeellfffff..." - wtf.

Except the lyric is "See I keep lying to myself."

Also, I'm not sure I trust the opinion of a guy who used fifty o's in a word that only needs one.

[Volband]

I Would For You is dope you guys are bugging. And I thought the lyrics are "And I keep lying to myself" which makes a lot of sense in context of the song and the album.

You thought right, I messed up because that's what I made out of the chorus while listening.

But my emhasis weren't really on the lyrical side (I would've double-checked myself then:P), I'd just wanted to say I think it's dull. Ysu see, most of the NIN songs are catchy, be it a generic, more commercial one (EDEITS), or some hardcore industrial grinding (Last). It's not. Don't ask me how can you make a generic, non-catchy Nine Inch Nails song, but Trent just did it. No offense, but when I try to force (!) myself to sing along to the chorus of IWFY I fee like a retard. It has a positive vibe to it, but not dance-y at all. I think the song was supposed to match the vibe of its' ending, but it's two different horses.


Except the lyric is "See I keep lying to myself."

Also, I'm not sure I trust the opinion of a guy who used fifty o's in a word that only needs one.
Ooooooooooh, it's on now!

[BRoswell]

Don't ask me how can you make a generic, non-catchy Nine Inch Nails song, but Trent just did it.

Personally, when those NiggyTardust-esque drums begin, I'm hooked all the way until the song ends. I've probably listened to the song more than any other track on the album aside from Came Back Haunted. It's far from generic in my opinion.


It has a positive vibe to it, but not dance-y at all.

Why does a positive song have to be something you can dance to?

And I don't find it positive at all. I find it rather depressing in fact. A man who wants to change for someone he loves, but can't bring himself to do it because his nature won't allow it. I don't see anything particularly positive about that, and I think, emotionally speaking, it's classic Nine Inch Nails territory.

[Volband]

Again, I have to call for Everything for my example: it has a positive vibe too, while the true meaning of the song is pretty dark and depressing. It's the same for me with IWFY.

I said the dance part, because I don't find it musically any good, except the ending. The meaning of the song does not come over me at all during the choruses, I don't feel the depression, the darkness, the struggle, anything, and when I say "it's not even dance-y" I mean it does nothing for me musically either. I like many-many dull songs that has a catchy tune or something, but it's just... nothing. The only other NIN song that feels the same for me is With Teeth.

Let's look at at VMOE, and let's say you don't like it musically; you can still get shivers from Trent singing the choruses, and even if you don't understand english, it makes you feel something, that's pretty close to the real meaning of the song. Or there's Disappointed, a song I've been whipping since HM came out: I hate it, but I think the chorus is awesome; so angry, so provoking, so tense, I like it, even though musically it's garbage for me. Or there's Big Man With A Gun, that's really not much lyrically, but I can bang my head to it for two minutes.

I Would For You is musically and lyrically simplistic, which kills any joy for me. If you were to tell me, that the ending of the song has the same vibe for you, than the rest of it, I have to call you a liar, because that last 30 or so seconds has soooooooooo much emotions, that it makes me revisit that song every now and then, just to hear it again.

Edit: And again, I'm a guy who find EDIETS one of the best NIN songs ever (like top 10 - not that I could EVER make a NIN top 10 list), so I'm not some hardcore, old Broken fan. When I listen to EDIETS I want to jump off a bridge, but when I listen to IWFY I just want to get to fastforward to the ending.

[BRoswell]

If you were to tell me, that the ending of the song has the same vibe for you, than the rest of it, I have to call you a liar, because that last 30 or so seconds has soooooooooo much emotions, that it makes me revisit that song every now and then, just to hear it again.

You'll have to call me a liar then, because that's how I feel. Sorry.

[Demogorgon]

you can't tell me how i feel. especially about music. you don't like the song, whatever. i like I Would For You. it's one of my favorites. no, i am not lying to myself. i think i know myself well enough after 30 years to know if i do or don't like something.

[R-Dot-Yung]

What about the lyrics and music of IWFY do you find simplistic? If I read correctly you like the last 30 seconds of the song because of the emotion attached to it and wish the whole song had that. I know what you're saying, but if the whole song sounded like the climax, then it wouldn't be a climax nor have the emotional impact you like about it. That's what makes me love IWFY, because it has the climax that all my favorite NIN songs do, and it's a full minute of just "gaaaahhhhhh" with that super crunchy guitar and the little two piano notes on top. Just great.

[Ryan]

IWFY is amazing.

[Conan The Barbarian]

I agree. I also do not understand the hate that Disappointed is getting. That track jams and cant wait to finally hear it live this Wed. ( I have been avoiding youtube vids as I would like to go in fresh to this one since it has been a while since my last NIN show.)

[binaryhermit]

cant wait to finally hear it live this Wed.
You do know that you probably won't hear it as they haven't ever played it live.

[Conan The Barbarian]

They have been playing disappointed all tour havent they?

[captainbeyond]

I agree. I also do not understand the hate that Disappointed is getting. That track jams and cant wait to finally hear it live this Wed. ( I have been avoiding youtube vids as I would like to go in fresh to this one since it has been a while since my last NIN show.)


Without spoilers, lets just say you are in for a very impressive visual treat during that song.

[m15a]

They have been playing disappointed all tour havent they?

yes. i'm thinking binaryhermit thought you were talking about whatever song you all were discussing above. (although, actually, IWFY was also performed live.)

[binaryhermit]

Whoops, I thought you were talking about Everything. Facepalm away at my original post.

[ryanmcfly]

I wish the second chorus of live version of Disappointed had the punch that the album version has.

[jesus]

LMAO seasonsinthesky took all day to facepalm the post, I want that power!

[r_z]

Getting facepalmed comes with the territory, I guess. It feels a bit cheap and lazy though, getting facepalmed by someone just because you differ in opinion, while not actually stating his opinion. seasonsinthesky truly is a master at this. http://philaflava.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_bowdown.gif

[Volband]

What about the lyrics and music of IWFY do you find simplistic? If I read correctly you like the last 30 seconds of the song because of the emotion attached to it and wish the whole song had that. I know what you're saying, but if the whole song sounded like the climax, then it wouldn't be a climax nor have the emotional impact you like about it. That's what makes me love IWFY, because it has the climax that all my favorite NIN songs do, and it's a full minute of just "gaaaahhhhhh" with that super crunchy guitar and the little two piano notes on top. Just great.
My arguement can be summed up by comparing IWFY with VMOE: epic climaxes, but VMOE delivers long before that. Also, I feel VMOE builds up its' own climax, while IWFY builds up a completely different songs', which is a big bummer.

The lyrics are simplistic in a bad way. Again, Every Day Is Exactly The Same (this line and the whole song as wel) is an enormous cliché, but one that can be painfuly true, and it can also get away with the Joker card of "this song is about repetition and dullness, so it's repetitive and dull. IWFY? "What a pathetic strings of words" sums it up for me. I like the "If I could be somebody else/Well, I think I would for you" line, but then comes the music part of this song. VMOE comes to mind once again, which has a similiar structure: murmuring the words (I don't dig that btw, not even at VMOE, my favourite track on HM), then exploding in the chorus. The problem that IWFY's chorus is the most uninteresting thing I could think of. Well, I take it back, I saw some Jay Leno videos on youtube, so there is certainly worse things than that, but still, it's unimaginative. Listen how Trent kills VMOE's chorus (he also does it 3 different ways), and how he's just shouting the words into the void (!) in IWFY. Shouting "If I could be somebody else..." is like walking up to the girl you like, and screaming "I love you". It's honest, cool, but doesn't translate the real thing to me at all.

I have 0 idea how could Non-Entity be a leftover song, while IWFY could make the album cut.

[HurtinMinorKey]

I have 0 idea how could Non-Entity be a leftover song

That, and Home. This always bothered me.

[Vertigo]

Home's sledgehammer drumming kills the song for me.
Non-entity's a great song but there's something weird about the final mix, I wonder if it was originally recorded at a higher tempo. Also think it could do with a bit more polishing, maybe one or two extra elements, and again, some more subtle and varied drumming...

[dlb]

Having non-entity on the record in its "react.now" version would be pretty great. Add a few more effects to it and you have a quite haunting song. I'm not too fond of the recorded version and also the summer 2006 version lacked something for me. A performance I really like though is the one from the KROQ breakfast session.

[Halo Infinity]

To me, "Satellite" works on HM because I don't think of it as paranoia in a big-brother/police state sort of way. I think of it as a song about a disciplinarian version of Trent who is watching real world Trent to make sure he doesn't fuck up, as in fall off the wagon of sobriety.
I noticed my self thinking the same thing, as if he's going... "You remember the likes of Down In It, Now I'm Nothing, Last, Gave Up, Mr Self Destruct, The Becoming, The Downward Spiral, Hurt, The Great Below, The Big Come Down, and Getting Smaller, don't you? Are you sure you want to go back there? Listen to me. Stop it! Stop it now!"

It's like he's trying to come to terms with being his own worst enemy, but and he needs to watch himself as if he's his own police and surveillance system. (Ironically becoming his own enemy in spite of his calmer approach to himself, since his conscience seems to be working against him, wondering when he'll fuck up again.)

[seasonsinthesky]

Getting facepalmed comes with the territory, I guess. It feels a bit cheap and lazy though, getting facepalmed by someone just because you differ in opinion, while not actually stating his opinion. seasonsinthesky truly is a master at this. http://philaflava.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_bowdown.gif

it's become my default response when 2006 ETS me would invite someone to the shitlist for being disruptively stupid. rather than feed the jesus, i think i'll just give him minimal attention with facepalms and be on my way!

also my opinion would just restate what other people were saying in response already. best to pile on likes and facepalms than waste board space saying "what he said." (unless you're post count obsessed, like some others who post in these threads...)

[jesus]

it's become my default response when 2006 ETS me would invite someone to the shitlist for being disruptively stupid. rather than feed the jesus, i think i'll just give him minimal attention with facepalms and be on my way!

LMAO believe it or not MY REAL NAME IS JESUS!

[Krazy]

LMAO believe it or not MY REAL NAME IS JESUS!

Gee-zus, or Hey-sues?...

[jesus]

Gee-zus, or Hey-sues?...
Hey-sues- I speak spanish but when I speak with someone who lives in the USA they call me Hey-sues

[Halo Infinity]

I noticed that I find myself listening to most of the beginning and ending of Hesitation Marks. This is also not to say that the middle of the album is bad either, but I've found myself not really listening to those parts as much.

[WorzelG]

I noticed that I find myself listening to most of the beginning and ending of Hesitation Marks. This is also not to say that the middle of the album is bad either, but I've found myself not really listening to those parts as much.

It depends on how much time I have, but if I haven't time to listen to the whole thing, I start it at All Time Low and listen to the rest so it's more middle to end to me

[ryanp16]

I'll be honest, when the album first came out I hated the entire thing except Copy of A.

But every so often I'd listen to it again and I'd find something new I'd like.

Now, I've had the album on repeat for the past two days with each song basically giving me a massive orgasm.

Funny how that works. :D

[m15a]

Now, I've had the album on repeat for the past two days with each song basically giving me a massive orgasm.

in the 1800s, doctors used a similar method on women.

[Ripe(withdecay)]

After two months of this album being released, it's definitely one of my absolute favorites. Each song carries it's own weight and our definitely strong. "In Two", "I Would For You", and "Various Methods of Escape" are my top songs right now.

[gorast]

After a few months with the album, the entire second half is pretty much my favorite, All Time Low included in that. Everything from, well, "Everything" right on through "Black Noise" is incredible.

Except for "In Two." I still don't that's all that great a song. Maybe if they'd played it in Orlando...

Also, post 1000. That's a weird milestone to think about, considering on the old ETS I didn't even break 100.

[MrSlfDstruct]

Has anybody had any issues with this record on an iPod? Specifically an iPod classic? I've got both the audiophile and standard versions downloaded from nin.com (ALAC). I primarily use my iPod in the car, and if I have HM playing and get out of the car/turn the car off and leave, then come back, the whole record plays slow. Like, 3/4 speed. If a HM song is on when I have it on shuffle and I skip to the next non-HM track, that track is fine. But if I have just HM playing, every song on the record will play at 3/4 speed until I select another album then go back to HM. I also had the same issue with the singles tracks downloaded pre-release.


Fucked up, I know. I even replaced my iPod, and I have the same issue in multiple vehicles, so logic would seem to suggest that it's something with the files. Anybody else experienced any weirdness?

[Khrz]

Everything's perfect on my ipod touch, no weird behaviour at all, both on regular and audiophile editions.... Weird :/

[cashpiles (closed)]

Copy of A is awesome.

[hani]

Has anybody had any issues with this record on an iPod? Specifically an iPod classic? I've got both the audiophile and standard versions downloaded from nin.com (ALAC). I primarily use my iPod in the car, and if I have HM playing and get out of the car/turn the car off and leave, then come back, the whole record plays slow. Like, 3/4 speed. If a HM song is on when I have it on shuffle and I skip to the next non-HM track, that track is fine. But if I have just HM playing, every song on the record will play at 3/4 speed until I select another album then go back to HM. I also had the same issue with the singles tracks downloaded pre-release.


Fucked up, I know. I even replaced my iPod, and I have the same issue in multiple vehicles, so logic would seem to suggest that it's something with the files. Anybody else experienced any weirdness?

everything works just fine on my Nano.

[icecream]

Compared to the other releases this year I was excited for, HM is the only one I keep going back to. The new Flaming Lips and Bowie albums were good/ok but I can't stop listening to HM. This isn't what it was like with WT, YZ or TS for me (albums released after I became a fan). I listen to it so much I can't get into the new Arcade Fire.

[darksiren82]

I think that almost 3 months later, HS is still doing it for me. VMOE was a favorite of mine from first listen and still is. I love the risks TR took in producing "big" songs like this and IWFY. Don't be surprised if they surface on "The Voice" or "American Idol" in the next seasons or two (really Jimmy Iovine, encourage some kids to take them on). Adding Pino, Lisa and Sharlotte to the live shows brings me back to the album. I mean, a love the depth and texture they add in the Tension shows, but it's all magic and endears me to the recording.

[icecream]

I'll be catching a show later this week and I can't wait to her HM material live. I liked VMOE first time I heard it too. I really hope In Two is played, that's a great song as well. While I'm Still Here/Black Noise are also amazing. Overall, I'm more excited to see NIN this time over the other time I saw them because of how great the new material is.

[darksiren82]

Also, can't forget the awesomeness that is While I'm Still Here. My dad lost his fight with cancer a year ago and that song reminds me of him so much. Some days, I can listen to it, other days, I just can't. But I'm always struck by the truth and love in the message, the simplicity of the melody and lyrics and the brilliant interplay between Lindsey Buckingham's guitar & Trent's vocals. Trent's got a knack for breaking a heart with one song on every album ("I'm Looking Forward..." SICNH,"In This Twilight," etc.) and WISH might be his best.

[icecream]

Also, can't forget the awesomeness that is While I'm Still Here. My dad lost his fight with cancer a year ago and that song reminds me of him so much. Some days, I can listen to it, other days, I just can't. But I'm always struck by the truth and love in the message, the simplicity of the melody and lyrics and the brilliant interplay between Lindsey Buckingham's guitar & Trent's vocals. Trent's got a knack for breaking a heart with one song on every album ("I'm Looking Forward..." SICNH,"In This Twilight," etc.) and WISH might be his best.
Really sorry to hear about your loss, I couldn't imagine losing a parent.
But I agree with the simple feeling of the song. Really makes it more personal.

[Al_Hunter]

This album is definitely growing on me. Whilst I could see it was a pretty solid record when I first got it I wasn't blown away by it. I'm gradually coming round, though I still find Disappointed and Everything to be the weakest tracks on the record - the tracks either side of it though are great. Think another couple of months and the prospect of seeing NIN for the first time next May will force this into regular play again and into becoming one of my favourites.

[BenAkenobi]

It's good that each listener can find favourite tracks, nobody expresses complete indifference. Though I wouldn't put it above WT and YZ. Above TDS is a different story ☻

[xolotl]

I loved Hesitation Marks from the very first listen (including Everything, once I got over the initial sonic shock) but I'd been hesitant to put it anywhere in my mental NIN-Album ranking 'cause I wanted to see how it settled in first. Well, a few months and many dozens of listens and I think I can safely say, after all, that this is my new favorite NIN album.

I wasn't sure if anything would end up knocking The Fragile off (The Slip came close for me, I tended to group them both together in my mental "#1" spot) but man, this album continues to thrill me. I suppose I'll see if it's partially due to lingering Tension excitement, and if I'll feel the same way in another year, but yow. This album is amazing.

Er, that is all. "Cool story, bro" and all that.

[cashpiles (closed)]

I hated on Hesitation Marks for not having staying power and not holding up, except for Copy Of A, but the story has changed since then. I have the iPod on shuffle and it's playing songs from every artist on it. Every now and then a Hesitation Marks song will come on, and they actually work really well in a random mix with other artists. For instance, when listening to the album, I really dislike the verse sections in All Time Low, but when it comes on in shuffle mode, it's actually refreshing and good. The track that is most outstanding in shuffle mode with all artists is Running. Seriously. Really innovative and cool song. So now I have Copy Of A and Running as my two favorite HM songs.

[nineismine]

However many months in now It's still fresh for me. I love this album, I think it ranks among some of his best work. interestingly enough (and maybe not very relevant here) I wasn't a huge Year zero fan but I have come back to that album lately and rediscovered it.

[nxtort]

thereisademointheconversationwith and no one told me!

[Khrz]

thereisademointheconversationwith and no one told me!

That's probably because you weren't listening then, because there was a whole thread dedicated to the various supplications and seductions of the people who wanted those !

[nxtort]

That's probably because you weren't listening then, because there was a whole thread dedicated to the various supplications and seductions of the people who wanted those !
this my friends is a fact, now to find this mystical thread

[Halo Infinity]

Running is actually growing on me more and more now. I used to actually skip it for quite some time. Overall though, Hesitation Marks didn't take a long time for it to grow on me either. It just gelled with me rather quickly.

[Charmingly Miserable]

I haven't listened to the whole album in its entirety in a while. I need to do that before the end of the year.

[fillow]

Any general consensus on bonus unreleased demos name tags?

Edit:
Looking at last.fm track pages, it seems unlikely.

Hesitation Marks Demo 1 (2, 3) have 24/19/22 listeners.
unreleased demo 1 (2, 3) have 11/9/11 listeners.
Hesitation Marks Demo #1 (#2, #3) have 7/4/7 listeners.

I guess I'll go with the first version for now.

[Copy of A]

Saw NIN in Nashville. Good show. Lots of energy. Great lighting

[Ryan]

Any general consensus on bonus unreleased demos name tags?

Edit:
Looking at last.fm track pages, it seems unlikely.

Hesitation Marks Demo 1 (2, 3) have 24/19/22 listeners.
unreleased demo 1 (2, 3) have 11/9/11 listeners.
Hesitation Marks Demo #1 (#2, #3) have 7/4/7 listeners.

I guess I'll go with the first version for now.

I think I have mine as "Unreleased Hesitation Marks Demo 1 (2, 3)" and "All Time Low (Demo)".

[jmtd]

Second or third listen through in the last few days. Mostly sank to the background with the exception of "Everything". Sadly there's still no hooks in my mental TODO list of "listen to that one again a bit more carefully".

[Al_Hunter]

Second or third listen through in the last few days. Mostly sank to the background with the exception of "Everything". Sadly there's still no hooks in my mental TODO list of "listen to that one again a bit more carefully".

I felt quite similarly for a while, but the back end of the album particularly started to grow on me - Various Methods of Escape, In Two and While I'm Still Here are the ones that really stick with me besides Copy of A and Came Back Haunted. I really liked Find My Way to start with but have started to go off it a little again. Overall tho it's definitely coming good for me.

[Halo Infinity]

My feeling to Hesitation Marks is sort of similar to the feeling I've had and still had for With Teeth. I just immediately got into it, and it just remained a favorite of mine. I also forgot to mention that I really loved how Copy Of A, All Time Love, Satellite, While I'm Still Here, and Black Noise turned out live. And with Running growing on me, I'd hope to see it played the next time I attend a Nine Inch Nails concert.

And as far as post-The Fragile works go, I think I really find myself listening to With Teeth and Hesitation Marks the most right now.

[neorev]

Huge fan of With Teeth...
At first listen, I thought Hesitation Marks was alright... much better than anything released from post-With Teeth... but at first I felt it was just okay.
Then I played it on my good system with subwoofer and instantly fell it love with it.
This is definitely an album that needs to be heard with full bass, a very low end groove oriented album.
Without the low end, it doesn't sound like much is going on... but with the full spectrum of sound, it is an immense album.
And it's moving up on my all time favorite album list.

[NINisamazing]

It's nominated for a Grammy har har har.

[SarahConnor]

A Grammy win could draw attention to how underrated this album is, and perhaps attract some listeners.

[WorzelG]

A Grammy win could draw attention to how underrated this album is, and perhaps attract some listeners.
I don't think it was critically underrated, it got 77% on metacritic, which is 3% off 'universal acclaim', that was pretty great I thought - however I don't think any of the promotion drew attention to how accessible the album actually is and how people who aren't already NIN fans might enjoy it - I love Came Back Haunted but it wouldn't make anyone outside the fanbase come in. And there weren't any other videos, no tv appearances until the tour was nearly over - just strange promotion

[billpulsipher]

There was a lot of buzz for the album and Lollapalooza etc and then 'Everything' dropped....That's when buzz dropped dead

[icecream]

There was a lot of buzz for the album and Lollapalooza etc and then 'Everything' dropped....That's when buzz dropped dead
You seem to know a lot about the music industry. Have you thought about contacting the NIN crew/Columbia Records and perhaps giving them some advice on how to do their jobs?

[Demogorgon]

i picked up the vinyl for this yesterday, and since it came with a cd copy, i have to ask: is the cd copy the normal album master, or is it the vinyl master, just on cd? i figure it's a valid question considering they came packaged together. i already have both the standard cd as well as the audiophile download, so, if the cd that comes with the vinyl is no different from what i have, i don't really want to bother ripping it; i'd rather keep it 100% pristine.

[Ryan Tollefson]

Go ahead and keep it pristine, its the same as the standard, and the deluxe.

[screwdriver]

I don't think it was critically underrated, it got 77% on metacritic, which is 3% off 'universal acclaim', that was pretty great I thought - however I don't think any of the promotion drew attention to how accessible the album actually is and how people who aren't already NIN fans might enjoy it - I love Came Back Haunted but it wouldn't make anyone outside the fanbase come in. And there weren't any other videos, no tv appearances until the tour was nearly over - just strange promotion

I can't be the only one who thinks the album performed exactly as expected, which is to say pretty well? Hesitation Marks has followed a pretty typical trajectory for NIN albums, and I think the sales are commensurate / proportionate with NIN's historical album sales and the state of album sales generally. Moreover, we're talking about a band whose giant mainstream hit ("Closer") was sort of a fluke to begin with… NIN has never been Beyonce, even at their peak. It's crazy to realize, considering how seismic it was on the critical landscape, but even TDS hasn't really sold *that* many copies. In (ugh) 20 years, the album has only sold about 5 million copies, and it came out and prospered in the *height* of record buying.

Look at a peer band like Soundgarden, whose comeback album -- their first in 16(!) years, a huge event -- sold 86,000 copies in week one, while Hesitation Marks sold 107,000. NIN has been playing reasonably full arenas, received rave critical reviews from a lot of publications, and, moreover, gotten a lot of primetime exposure. I think everyone deserves a pat on the back, from NIN to Columbia, for a really successful release.

[Arkadin]

Look at a peer band like Soundgarden, whose comeback album -- their first in 16(!) years, a huge event -- sold 86,000 copies in week one, while Hesitation Marks sold 107,000. NIN has been playing reasonably full arenas, received rave critical reviews from a lot of publications, and, moreover, gotten a lot of primetime exposure. I think everyone deserves a pat on the back, from NIN to Columbia, for a really successful release.
I would say that HM should have sold quite a bit more than the Soundgarden album. They might have been comparable bands in terms of popularity back in the mid-90s, but TR has kept the brand going with several releases in the meantime and a lot of touring, not to mention some highly regarded work in movies. I guess that most people would look at the Soundgarden reunion as a desperate cash grab after Chris Cornell's career had nowhere else to go. And after that Timbaland fiasco, do people really take Cornell seriously?

[screwdriver]

I would say that HM should have sold quite a bit more than the Soundgarden album. They might have been comparable bands in terms of popularity back in the mid-90s, but TR has kept the brand going with several releases in the meantime and a lot of touring, not to mention some highly regarded work in movies. I guess that most people would look at the Soundgarden reunion as a desperate cash grab after Chris Cornell's career had nowhere else to go. And after that Timbaland fiasco, do people really take Cornell seriously?

they sold 20% more than the Soundgarden album. That seems like quite a bit more to me… Especially since Soundgarden had a string of hits in the 90s and grunge nostalgia is huge right now. But alas, we're both armchair quarterbacking here!

also, I'm not sure "most people" really look at Chris Cornell's career in the sense you're describing; at least, any more than the same "most people" also probably think a NIN reunion tour (5 years after his last US show!) is also a desperate cash grab.

[Khrz]

I never got the reaction to Reznor's "return". After all, there's only 5 years between the "last" album and Hesitation Marks, which is the usual time span between albums when Reznor isn't on override mode... Suddenly everyone reacted like NIN was usually releasing a record a year. The guy never left, and NIN technically wasn't even on hiatus, by NIN standarts... I know Reznor himself said he was taking a break back then, but i's not really retiring when the wait between two albums remains the same...
So, calling HM a cash grab ? Great display of ignorance there, in my opinion...

[m15a]

So, calling HM a cash grab ? Great display of ignorance there, in my opinion...

if you're referring to the post above yours, that's not what screwdriver was saying. the point is that that is a minority opinion.

about whether there was a hiatus, NIN being active isn't just about when albums are released. there was a relatively long span of time (even by NIN standards) when there were no shows performed, no releases at all, and (likely) not even an album in development.

[BenAkenobi]

they sold 20% more than the Soundgarden album...

would that be possible without 4 different cover designs?

[Khrz]

if you're referring to the post above yours, that's not what screwdriver was saying. the point is that that is a minority opinion.

Well I certainly wasn't calling Screwdriver an ignorant.

And the funny thing about the whole Reznor=NIN, is that the line is extremely blurry. So, while there indeed weren't any NIN releases, we got a shitload of music from Reznor anyway. I do get your point though, I guess it's just me who couldn't comprehend the reactions to NIN's "return".
Remixes were never a "proper" release to me, and I didn't follow up on tours. So, from a subjective standpoint, the gap between The Slip and HM wasn't that impressive.

[screwdriver]

would that be possible without 4 different cover designs?

Ha, fair question!

[billpulsipher]

Before the album dropped, Trent was quoted in interviews saying NIN seems to be "bigger than ever". I think its safe to say that was a miscalculation

[pigpen]

Ha, fair question!
Truthfully, I think the people who bought all four covers made up a fairly small percentage of the overall album sales. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like the vast majority of people really care about that.. I have a collection of nine inch nails cd's and I didn't even buy ONE. Just purchased the vinyl..

[screwdriver]

Truthfully, I think the people who bought all four covers made up a fairly small percentage of the overall album sales. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like the vast majority of people really care about that.. I have a collection of nine inch nails cd's and I didn't even buy ONE. Just purchased the vinyl..

oh I completely agree, I just thought it was a funny flippant comment. Though it is interesting, right, if there were even 1000 people who bought all the copies week 1, that would be a pretty significant bump at that number of sales.

either way, I don't think it's terribly material to the overall sales.

can I also just say, I genuinely enjoy billpulsipher's additions to the board? always bring a smile to my face when he posts

[AlanMorlock]

Before the album dropped, Trent was quoted in interviews saying NIN seems to be "bigger than ever". I think its safe to say that was a miscalculation


Albums across the board sell less now but that doesn't necessarily mean that music is less popular than it was in 2000.

[jmtd]

Before the album dropped, Trent was quoted in interviews saying NIN seems to be "bigger than ever". I think its safe to say that was a miscalculation

I believe that was the situation into which HM dropped. Sales of the entire catalogue are strong.

[r_z]

you have a source for that?

[InvitingmeAway]

The album keeps revealing more and more after each listen! And I got it a couple days before it dropped hahaha.

[snaapz]

The album keeps revealing more and more after each listen! And I got it a couple days before it dropped hahaha.

Agreed!

At first I wasn't overly fond of Running, but the song is growing on me... I'm not even actively listening to the song, it just randomly starts playing in my head. I'm sure some of you know what I mean.

[buckaroo]

I'm pretty surprised there hasn't been more marketing for this album. Maybe before the tour starts up they will push a new single. I really expected more remixes this time around too.

[Halo Infinity]

The album keeps revealing more and more after each listen! And I got it a couple days before it dropped hahaha.
As most Nine Inch Nails albums were that way with me, and still are that way with me, I'm also happy to see that I can still say the same thing about Hesitation Marks as well. It's grown on me a lot faster than I've expected it to.

[Leviathant]

I'm pretty surprised there hasn't been more marketing for this album. Maybe before the tour starts up they will push a new single. I really expected more remixes this time around too.

I'm betting that is one of the reasons for the change in management companies. The marketing for Hesitation Marks has been terrible, if not non-existent.

[copy_of_b]

As most Nine Inch Nails albums were that way with me, and still are that way with me, I'm also happy to see that I can still say the same thing about Hesitation Marks as well. It's grown on me a lot faster than I've expected it to.
I feel the same, most NIN albums sound great in the beginning - and fantastic after a while of listening to it. As for HM, I'm pleased to say that it sounds still very fresh to me - really love that record. I was afraid that it might pull a Year Zero on me (to me, Year Zero lost a lot of it's attractivity after a few weeks, though it's nonetheless a good album), but that didn't happen. Still love it. Still listening to it a lot.

[HurtinMinorKey]

I'm betting that is one of the reasons for the change in management companies. The marketing for Hesitation Marks has been terrible, if not non-existent.

Can you really blame the marketing? I really think it boils down to the album having very little appeal to demographics that are willing to spend $ on music.

NIN already has a name, so i doubt Columbia would let them go under-promoted if they thought they could make a buck.

[WorzelG]

Can you really blame the marketing? I really think it boils down to the album having very little appeal to demographics that are willing to spend $ on music.

NIN already has a name, so i doubt Columbia would let them go under-promoted if they thought they could make a buck.
You don't call not even having a decent video 'under promoted'? (although to be fair, not sure whether that was the fault of either management or Columbia) - maybe what he needs in management is somebody who will push back on some of his decisions

[ParaGun]

After countless listens: not bad, but nowhere as intensive as, say, The Fragile. The NIN as I knew it, is over for now. I can enjoy the new incarnation, but I do prefer older work. HM is a bit...tired? Trying to be trendy? I don't know. It didn't click with me - YET.

[ninsp]

Before the album dropped, Trent was quoted in interviews saying NIN seems to be "bigger than ever". I think its safe to say that was a miscalculation

How exactly is that a miscalculation?

Because you don't like HM?

Because CDs don't sell worth shit anymore?

Because NIN fans are technically savvy and likely pirated/stole/bought music from him?

Give me a break.

Tension sold better than Kanye West. Give me a damn break. Nobody sells out arenas anymore, concerts aren't as "cool" as they once were, Justin freaking Timberlake can't even sell out a show.

[billpulsipher]

If you think NIN is as big now as they were in 1994, then you are insane.....

[screwdriver]

Tension sold better than Kanye West. Give me a damn break. Nobody sells out arenas anymore, concerts aren't as "cool" as they once were, Justin freaking Timberlake can't even sell out a show.

not doubting you, but is that true about Kanye's tour? source?

[IndyJ]

The full images of the deluxe artwork ("Cargo in the Blood") and "Turn and Burn". Found these hidden in Russell Mills' website and wasn't sure if anyone had seen them yet. http://i.imgur.com/KmRB4xG.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fx3J1lm.jpg

also, here's a post (http://pretty-hate-machiine.tumblr.com/post/72502608069/full-images-best-resolution-available-of-artwork) to a few more photos of RM's work for Hesitation Marks.

[jessamineny]

links?....

[gorast]

Cargo in the Blood looks weirdly different compared to the actual deluxe edition art. I wonder why the change was made.

[Ryan]

So the "Everything" single cover is called "Dust Called Once"

http://24.media.tumblr.com/4eca72cebf9cf760809e330da704d117/tumblr_mz0d6nByAj1qj0l59o7_r1_400.jpg

[WorzelG]

Just listened to HM on my Bose ipod sound-dock while sweeping the floor, think I'll go back to headphones in future until we can afford a decent stereo system (whatever you even call them these days) as although it brought out some good stuff on the beats / bass end, particularly in Satellite and Various Methods, there was a lot of stuff that wasn't audible too. I haven't listened to music out loud for months, except listening to classical music while putting kids to bed

[eversonpoe]

The full images of the deluxe artwork ("Cargo in the Blood") and "Turn and Burn". Found these hidden in Russell Mills' website and wasn't sure if anyone had seen them yet. http://i.imgur.com/KmRB4xG.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fx3J1lm.jpg

also, here's a post (http://pretty-hate-machiine.tumblr.com/post/72502608069/full-images-best-resolution-available-of-artwork) to a few more photos of RM's work for Hesitation Marks.

if you want to know more about Russell's art for hesitation marks, check out the interview Karen did with him (http://underneathitall.org/) on the newest episode of Underneath It All!

[icecream]

If you think NIN is as big now as they were in 1994, then you are insane.....
I'm sure when Trent says NIN feels like they are bigger than ever, he knows what he is talking about. They may not have a big hit right now like "Closer" was, but they have respect and veteran status among the music community. Not only that, if he is able to do a big festival tour of Europe, arena tour of North America, and still have enough drive to do another string of shows in Europe and possibly North America (not to mention the shows in Oceania, Asia and South America), I'd say NIN is doing pretty good. Just the fact NIN is still in demand around the world tells me they are doing fine.

[IndyJ]

Cargo in the Blood looks weirdly different compared to the actual deluxe edition art. I wonder why the change was made.

That's what i was thinking. I saw the little thumbnails and then realized, wait, the red part carries over into the blue, so i combined them. I always felt like that weird black space was added there, just from RM's use of texture and it was just *too* flat to originally be like that.
I'm guessing it was changed because it would look pretty weird cropped and unchanged.

[screwdriver]

Just listened to HM on my Bose ipod sound-dock while sweeping the floor, think I'll go back to headphones in future until we can afford a decent stereo system (whatever you even call them these days) as although it brought out some good stuff on the beats / bass end, particularly in Satellite and Various Methods, there was a lot of stuff that wasn't audible too. I haven't listened to music out loud for months, except listening to classical music while putting kids to bed
I went through a phase like that for awhile, but now I'm back to out loud as much as possible. headphones make music so claustrophobic and small !

[AlanMorlock]

According to the awesome interview with Mills on the Underneath it all podcast "Cargo in the Blood" will also be the name of a limited edition 300 page artbook the 30 pieces he made for Hesitation mark with essays for each of the pieces.

I'm surprised more hasn't been said about this.

[martin_b]

Where are those HM HD wallpapers that were promised via NIN tumblr account? :-\


Hmmm, ok - "wallpaper pack coming soon!"

[9tySevenSilence]

Where are those HM HD wallpapers that were promised via NIN tumblr account? :-\


Hmmm, ok - "wallpaper pack coming soon!"


I second this!

[Toadflax]

according to the awesome interview with mills on the underneath it all podcast "cargo in the blood" will also be the name of a limited edition 300 page artbook the 30 pieces he made for hesitation mark with essays for each of the pieces.

i'm surprised more hasn't been said about this.

Right??!!!

[simonn]

Everything - at the end of each vocal line, there's those 4 snare hits. I still air drum them every time I hear them. Weirdly infectious.

[fillow]

hell, I air drum to half the music I listen to. when nobody's around. otherwise i just tap it on the table or my legs and still piss off everyone.

[fuckit]

i haven't been on this forum in a bit since hesitation marks' release. but man, have i been listening to it! i listen to in completions mostly every day, some songs more than others. satellite, everything, in two, and while i'm still here have become must listens each day.

[Halo Infinity]

So far, my favorite songs have been Copy Of A, Find My Way, All Time Love, Everything, Satellite, Various Methods Of Escape, Running, While I'm Still Here, and Black Noise. I know that's way over half the album, but that's also a very good sign as it's been growing on me wonderfully, as it really became an instant favorite.

[InvitingmeAway]

The end if In Two....just crazy.

[r_k_f]

The last 30 seconds or so of "In Two" is my favorite piece of the entire album.. my 2nd favorite portion is the 2 minute buildup prior to those 30 seconds..

[r_k_f]

The end if In Two....just crazy. lol... i didn't see your post before my last one.

[bruised]

Where are those HM HD wallpapers that were promised via NIN tumblr account? :-\


Hmmm, ok - "wallpaper pack coming soon!"
I think they've been a little busy ;)

[Halo Infinity]

The last 30 seconds or so of "In Two" is my favorite piece of the entire album.. my 2nd favorite portion is the 2 minute buildup prior to those 30 seconds..
In Two actually took a little while to grow on me, but that's certainly among my favorite parts of it as well.

[katara]

Everything - at the end of each vocal line, there's those 4 snare hits. I still air drum them every time I hear them. Weirdly infectious.
Seeing as the two songs share the track seven slot, aren't those a reference to the same snare hits in The Becoming?

[r_z]

Since they're the only songs Trent produced featuring snare hits, I'd say signs strongly point to: Yes.

[simonn]

Seeing as the two songs share the track seven slot, aren't those a reference to the same snare hits in The Becoming?

Good call, never thought of that before!

[zecho]

Since they're the only songs Trent produced featuring snare hits, I'd say signs strongly point to: Yes.

Where'd you get that?

[r_z]

you know, it's around...

[Daegor]

Can someone point me in the direction of those four demos from the interview? the peeps who said to PM them in this thread aren't responding...

[screwdriver]

Can someone point me in the direction of those four demos from the interview? the peeps who said to PM them in this thread aren't responding...


http://tinyurl.com/mezbw52

[Daegor]

http://tinyurl.com/mezbw52

Thanks anyway :P

Someone else helped me out...

[That other guy]

Cd is still on rotation , just not as much , Favorites : Copy of , VMOE Not so favorite :Haunted....

[eversonpoe]

i listened to the album the other day after not listening to it for a while.
some thoughts:

i still don't really like find my way...at all. i mean, it's kinda pretty, and once it builds up a bit more, it's interesting. but other than that, it doesn't do much for me.
same thing with while i'm still here. i definitely wish it sounded more like black noise all the way through.
everything is a great song. like, really great. i love it.
favorites - copy of a, all time low, various methods of escape, i would for you, & in two.

[opal]

I feel the Hesitation Marks artwork doesn't go well with the music.

The artwork itself is nice and is obviously a reference to TDS, to which it would fit more naturally, IMO.

The artwork is very organic looking, very complex and features textures of fabric and various stuff from nature.
In contrast, the music is very modern, electronic and sparse. (For the lack of better descriptions for both the music and the artwork, but you may get my point.)

To me, the music of HM is best represented by the minimal, yet very effective production of the 2013 Festival shows.

Anyone else have similar thoughts about this?

[Halo Infinity]

I find that interesting, because I thought that some of the artwork from With Teeth, Year Zero, and The Slip could've fit in with Hesitation Marks. I don't really have that much to say on that part of the subject though, but what you said also covers how I'd also feel about it now that you've mentioned it. The CD also looked like some sort of throwback to Pretty Hate Machine and Beside You In Time as well.

[piggy]

I'm a big Russell Mills fan, so initially I was just excited to see him working with NIN again (and jazzed about the multiple covers.) But you're right that the organic nature of the art kind of clashes with the inorganic nature of the music. On the other hand, Mills' art this time around is less organic overall than it was for TDS, so the disparity could have been worse if that earthier, more decay-oriented style had been revisited. Also, many people have remarked that the music of HM seems more atmospheric than most recent NIN output, so the complexity of the artwork maybe still kind of works in that way. Definitely an interesting and somewhat jarring contrast.

[Ryan]

I feel the Hesitation Marks artwork doesn't go well with the music.

The artwork itself is nice and is obviously a reference to TDS, to which it would fit more naturally, IMO.

The artwork is very organic looking, very complex and features textures of fabric and various stuff from nature.
In contrast, the music is very modern, electronic and sparse. (For the lack of better descriptions for both the music and the artwork, but you may get my point.)

To me, the music of HM is best represented by the minimal, yet very effective production of the 2013 Festival shows.

Anyone else have similar thoughts about this?

I think the same thing.

[Khrz]

Yeah, I love both the album and the album art, but the throwback to TDS just doesn't work. Just because thematically, the record if a transposition of the Downward Spiral storyline 20 years later doesn't make it close enough to reference it all over the place. That nod aside, Hesitation Marks doesn't have much in common with its older brother...
On the other hand, isn't that reaction just us putting TDS and everything Downward Spiral related on a pedestal ? "This artwork goes with that music goes with these lyrics goes with this Reznor..." There are a thousand electronic albums out there using organic imagery and we don't even blink I'm sure...

[m15a]

I feel the Hesitation Marks artwork doesn't go well with the music.

The artwork itself is nice and is obviously a reference to TDS, to which it would fit more naturally, IMO.

The artwork is very organic looking, very complex and features textures of fabric and various stuff from nature.
In contrast, the music is very modern, electronic and sparse. (For the lack of better descriptions for both the music and the artwork, but you may get my point.)

To me, the music of HM is best represented by the minimal, yet very effective production of the 2013 Festival shows.

Anyone else have similar thoughts about this?

There's a lot of artwork, but some of it definitely looks minimal or sparse to me. There are quite a few with repeated objects or large blocks of color, maybe with some variation. And, as you mention, fabrics and textures which are also some amount of structural uniformity, which is also true of some of the organic structures (in the leaves and honeycomb thing). I guess I don't really think of the music as completely electronic and inorganic, anyway. I mean, there's still singing (and some "live" instrument performance, too) and emotion. And a lot of it definitely sounds structural with subtle, maybe random or organic, variation to me. Not saying your wrong, just a different perspective.

And there are other ways of considering the art - like, instead of asking how suitable the visuals are for the music, they can be thought more equally, like, "how do the two works relate?" Anyway, just some other perspectives.


On the other hand, isn't that reaction just us putting TDS and everything Downward Spiral related on a pedestal ? "This artwork goes with that music goes with these lyrics goes with this Reznor..." There are a thousand electronic albums out there using organic imagery and we don't even blink I'm sure...

And this. Maybe even not that TDS is on a pedestal so much as it's just so familiar. I mean, the similarities really stand out to us (especially since we've all discussed them), but that's really just one aspect of the art.

[implanted_microchip]

Something else that I think makes the organic artwork of HM work with the more electronic/processed sound of the album is this: on TDS, conceptually there's this regular separation of the "organic" side and the "machine" side of the narrator; there's the human being and there's the constant mechanical voice of depression. As the album goes on more and more organic elements get shed and more and more industrial and electronic elements take the forefront, with the organic parts becoming more abstract and twisted (songs like Eraser or the title track), with Reptile being a great example of this, only for the machine side to ultimately dissipate and we're left with nothing but the fragile, natural sense of reality of Hurt, where everything seems held back, gentle and hesitant until the very end.

To me, for HM, one of the best parts of it is that it has this mature approach to the same machine vs. man subject from TDS, ultimately saying, "There are no halves, we're the same thing and it's simply a part of who I am and by negating that maybe I've damaged myself far more than I needed to or would have otherwise." Look at songs like In Two and you'll see what I mean. While I'm Still Here feels like an acceptance of that fact and finally coming to terms with that notion of self, that all of the destructiveness, depression and addiction isn't some foreign self but rather simply another part of the whole and not some "side" that can be defeated.

So for the artwork to have that organic sense of frailty and decay and then bounce against the more electronic vibes of the album seems to go hand in hand honestly. It's a contrast that, to me at least, really accentuates one of the core points of HM. Also, since HM takes on a more mature look at a lot of the same subjects from TDS, I find it really cool how the artwork for HM is reminiscent of TDS but with a far more deeper/richer color pallet. It fits with both being older and looking back on a younger self as well as the shock/contrast between what is and what's thought to be, and I absolutely adore all of the work that Mills put in to this album.

[BRoswell]

Nice little behind-the-scenes photo posted to Instagram: http://instagram.com/p/nd4r3CjqgV/

[MrSlfDstruct]

Does anybody else get popping in Black Noise from the ALAC audiophile download? The rest of the record is fine except that track. I've downloaded it several times with the same result.

[ethan829]

Does anybody else get popping in Black Noise from the ALAC audiophile download? The rest of the record is fine except that track. I've downloaded it several times with the same result.

I have noticed that, but I thought it was intentional.

[BenAkenobi]

Maybe the voice in the intro says "a copy, a copy" and first song picks up on it?

[joplinpicasso]

I, too, have been away from the board ever since the new album and subsequent touring happened. With that said, Hesitation Marks is still a frightfully precise and addictive record. "Copy of A" and "In Two" might be in my top 5 NIN songs of all time. I still wish there were more spacious experimentation but we have the soundtracks and HTDA for that. TR has been nothing but supremely industrious in the past year and I admire him for it all the more. There is not a week that goes by where I'm not listening to this album. To all who've followed my posts, I miss ya!

[Halo Infinity]

Hesitation Marks grew on me very fast. It's probably by far the most addictive post-The Fragile record for me so far as well. I've also made sure to appreciate his prolific output, not only because I enjoy most of it, but also because of simply looking at what happened between 1994-2005. This isn't to say that all hiatuses are bad, but it was certainly fun to catch more shows than I would've with the hiatuses. And since I don't attend rock concerts regularly, the wait I had from The Slip to Hesitation Marks wasn't that bad at all. It was still less than 5 years anyway. (That is, the gap between the shows I saw, not the albums, as I attended one show in 2009, and another show in 2013.)

[hani]

sorry for opening a dead thread again, but it's been almost a year since we got the album, and I think HM finally passed that time of being a "new record" for me, you know, now the freshness is away and I feel like it is a part of the whole discography. and I got some opinions: now I'm pretty sure it's his best work since The Fragile, even though I was always deeply in love with YZ and TS. HM has a perfect flow, it just feels right. it's flawless.

moments that make me climax and are one of the best moments in NIN's whole history:
* that moment when "I am just a finger on a trigger on a finger" in Copy of a
* "HEY! EVERYTHING IS NOT-O-K"
* that chaotic, hectic guitar after Running's chorus, especially with Trent singing in the background "I'MRUNNINGOUTI'MRUNNINGOUTI'MRUNNINGOUT"
* last seconds of In Two (this makes me cum so hard)
* EPIC SAX TRENT IN WHILE I'M STILL HERE
* Black Noise in general

[Inkë]

I think the first bridge of In Two, "It's getting harder to tell the two of you apart...", with this wall of guitars, is the best thing Reznor has ever recorded. And the ending of the song is unnecessary.

[Ryan]

And the ending of the song is unnecessary.

As in, the song is so good it should just keep going and never end?

[Ryan]

* last seconds of In Two (this makes me cum so hard)

How hard??

[WorzelG]

I wish Trent would go back and add the piano bits on Disappointed that he put in live in some of the European performances of it. My only complaint about that song was that it goes on just a bit too long, but those additions make that void

[dlb]

well, sometimes I just can't get enough of the endless loops and bleeps in disappointed but every now and then I feel it's too long aswell. It's still a great tune and I just love the whole performance alongside the visuals for it. Can't get why there is so much hate for this tune...

And I have to agree... HM has become my most listened to NIN album in a very short time. It feels very seamless and is quite to the point. Not too long, not too short. The production is top notch and the record feels and sounds very cohesive. This is pretty much his mightiest comeback so far and I sincerely wouldn't have thought about this to actually happen. I was worried I might be over with NIN after 2009, it felt stale and then a couple years later HM happened and all the beautiful touring around this damn fine record! :D

copy of a has become my most favorite live tune by any band and I have been rocking out to it beyond belief. And I just love the way Trent looks like he's enjoying this song way too much when it starts, clapping, running around, doing the airplane and pumping his fists. :D

[snaapz]

sorry for opening a dead thread again, but it's been almost a year since we got the album, and I think HM finally passed that time of being a "new record" for me,

Funny, I actually started typing the same thing twice already this past week... but gave up and closed firefox. I can't figure out how I feel about this album. Copy of A, CBH and Find My Way are very good songs.

As for the rest of the album I find it kind of mediocre, poorly arranged at times and the bridging in some songs are dull. It's good but not that good. It's not one of NIN's most stimulating albums but I get that stimulating is not the message with this album.

But then I load up the album while I type and think it's fucking awesome and close firefox without posting what I wrote.

I really like the concept of 'I would for you' but I would have liked to see some better bridging from verse to chorus, some palmed distorted guitar during the chorus, a bit of live perc (kick/snare), a bit of synth arp in the background, more variety of synth snare/hh.

I really like 'Various methods of escape' - I'm not fond of the simple kick drum during the verse... I do like the high hat usage... I would have loved to hear live perc through out the song. There' something very mid range about this song until it reaches the end, the epic end!

Satellite - I instantly thought of N.E.R.D's 'Seeing Sounds' album because of the percussion used (kick/clap). I HATE the bridge in this song, the woooowwwww synth then clap clap is very plain and dull. Over all the song is good and I like how it shifts into a new world as it reaches the end. I think some sounds need to be equalized differently and made more visible. The simple percussion dominates the song, and I don't like that.

'Disappointed' reminds me of 'Within You Without You' by The Beatles.

'While Im Still Here' - I wouldn't change anything!

[WorzelG]

Funny, I actually started typing the same thing twice already this past week... but gave up and closed firefox. I can't figure out how I feel about this album. Copy of A, CBH and Find My Way are very good songs.

As for the rest of the album I find it kind of mediocre, poorly arranged at times and the bridging in some songs are dull. It's good but not that good. It's not one of NIN's most stimulating albums but I get that stimulating is not the message with this album.

But then I load up the album while I type and think it's fucking awesome and close firefox without posting what I wrote.

I really like the concept of 'I would for you' but I would have liked to see some better bridging from verse to chorus, some palmed distorted guitar during the chorus, a bit of live perc (kick/snare), a bit of synth arp in the background, more variety of synth snare/hh.

I really like 'Various methods of escape' - I'm not fond of the simple kick drum during the verse... I do like the high hat usage... I would have loved to hear live perc through out the song. There' something very mid range about this song until it reaches the end, the epic end!

Satellite - I instantly thought of N.E.R.D's 'Seeing Sounds' album because of the percussion used (kick/clap). I HATE the bridge in this song, the woooowwwww synth then clap clap is very plain and dull. Over all the song is good and I like how it shifts into a new world as it reaches the end. I think some sounds need to be equalized differently and made more visible. The simple percussion dominates the song, and I don't like that.

'Disappointed' reminds me of 'Within You Without You' by The Beatles.

'While Im Still Here' - I wouldn't change anything!
This is very specific! Is this the sort of thing you could change if given the multitracks?

[hani]

How hard??

like SO HARD

[screwdriver]

I wish Trent would go back and add the piano bits on Disappointed that he put in live in some of the European performances of it. My only complaint about that song was that it goes on just a bit too long, but those additions make that void


don't think I've heard those -- link?

[WorzelG]

don't think I've heard those -- link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f67B5Tk_UV4

[pigpen]

yeah, those are awesome.. and definitely would have made the studio version more interesting towards the end

[Halo Infinity]

I'm not sure if this video was posted in this thread yet, but I thought of posting it anyway, since it's a fan-made commercial of Hesitation Marks. If only I caught it last year, or I did, and then just somehow forgot about it. It certainly deserves more views from the way I see it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvWzaaYpOnc

[Atu]

I would like it more if the transition between covers were more vague, something like between Ghosts (counted as an album somehow:p) and The Slip.
However idea is pretty good.

[zah]

Satellite is my favourite stand-alone song, I can listen to it on repeat. Guess I'm a sucker for dancey beats and call-response. And that layering at the end...mmmmm.
That said...I know it was created before the rest of the album, but it kinda irks me how it doesn't seem to fit in lyrically. More YZ if anything.

HM has renewed my love of NIN. Guess it came at the right time for me. It's comforting.

[JML9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f67B5Tk_UV4

Love it!!! Saw it last night!!!! The Tension version was great too!!

[Halo Infinity]

HM has renewed my love of NIN. Guess it came at the right time for me. It's comforting.
I could also see how that could be. I would even go as far to still say that Hesitation Marks brought out the similar feelings I had when With Teeth came out as well.

[Mr.Benjamin]

It's approaching the 1 year mark of Hesitation Marks being released. I want to see how everyone lists their top songs from the album now.

(No order)

-I Would For You
-In Two
-While I'm Still Here/Black Noise
-All Time Low
-Various Methods of Escape
-Find My Way
-Running (not so much live though)
-Everything

[Ryan]

I'll list the ones I care to re-listen to, and the order I like them:

1) I Would For You
2) All Time Low
3) The Eater Of Dreams
4) Various Methods Of Escape
5) In Two
6) Everything
7) While I'm Still Here

[Vertigo]

1. While I'm Still Here
2. Various Methods Of Escape
3. Copy Of A
4. In Two
5. Find My Way
6. Disappointed
7. All Time Low
8. Came Back Haunted
9. I Would For You
10. Satellite
11. Everything
12. Running

That's grading on a curve, though. I still like Running, and on a lot of other albums it would even be a highlight.
It's an incredible album.

[F-JD]

Copy Of A
I Would For You
Running
Various Methods Of Escape
In Two
While I'm Still Here
Came Back Haunted
Disappointed
Satellite
Find My Way
Everything
All Time Low


Hesitation Marks is awesome.

[BRoswell]

Let's see...

1. Came Back Haunted
2. Various Methods Of Escape
3. I Would For You
4. While I'm Still Here/Black Noise
5. Copy Of A
6. Satellite
7. In Two
8. Find My Way
9. Everything
10. All Time Low
11. Disappointed
12. Running
13. The Eater Of Dreams

[implanted_microchip]

My top five at the moment (although I love every single song, mind you, so if it's not here that doesn't mean I dislike it whatsoever):

1. While I'm Still Here/Black Noise (it's such a package deal)
2. In Two
3. Copy of a
4. Running
5. Various Methods of Escape

Other songs I could've swapped in: Disappointed (seriously), Satellite, All Time Low

[ZeroSum]

Here's the whole album for me (consider Eater of Dreams and Black Noise part of Copy of A and While I'm Still here, respectively)

1. Various Methods of Escape
2. In Two
3. All Time Low
4. Copy of A
5. While I'm Still Here
6. I Would For You
7. Everything
8. Came Back Haunted
9. Running
10. Find My Way
11. Satellite
12. Disappointed

[Throw_it_away9]

Copy of A
Satellite
In Two
All Time Low
Various Methods of Escape (love the Kimmel performance)

Hoping for some more HM songs to be played on the current tour. Although that seems as likely as hearing TF songs...though The Fragile/Wretched was played recently...I guess we'll see.

Top pick for HM song to see on the current tour: Satellite

[implanted_microchip]

Copy of A
Satellite
In Two
All Time Low
Various Methods of Escape (love the Kimmel performance)

Hoping for some more HM songs to be played on the current tour. Although that seems as likely as hearing TF songs...though The Fragile/Wretched was played recently...I guess we'll see.

Top pick for HM song to see on the current tour: Satellite

Did you see Satellite on Tension? That was my number one pick for a song live but I knew it was unlikely, it was by far one of the least played from HM on Tension along with IWFY and was worried I'd not get it at all, in the car on the way to the show when it came on while listening to the album I just thought of how much I wanted to hear it, and all of a sudden towards the end of the main set, BOOM, that insane electronic beeping kicked in. The visuals they used for that blew my mind.

[Throw_it_away9]

Did you see Satellite on Tension? That was my number one pick for a song live but I knew it was unlikely, it was by far one of the least played from HM on Tension along with IWFY and was worried I'd not get it at all, in the car on the way to the show when it came on while listening to the album I just thought of how much I wanted to hear it, and all of a sudden towards the end of the main set, BOOM, that insane electronic beeping kicked in. The visuals they used for that blew my mind.

Satellite did in fact blow my mind!

I was at the Staples Center for the show they recorded for the DVD. It's a good thing that that Vevo recording isn't on VHS, because I would have worn out that tape months ago.

[implanted_microchip]

Satellite did in fact blow my mind!

I was at the Staples Center for the show they recorded for the DVD. It's a good thing that that Vevo recording isn't on VHS, because I would have worn out that tape months ago.

Is it as cool as it sounds having that show preserved that way? I've always wished I'd be at a filmed show, whenever I want to re-experience mine I have to turn to RITC and YouTube videos (which is fine, but man, having a pro-shot must be amazing).

Satellite is definitely one of my most missed songs from this past year of performances, I understand not playing a lot of HM as much of it is very complex and a four piece might not pull it off well enough to justify it, but Satellite seems totally optimal. That right after The Great Destroyer would be incredible to see.

[Throw_it_away9]

Is it as cool as it sounds having that show preserved that way? I've always wished I'd be at a filmed show, whenever I want to re-experience mine I have to turn to RITC and YouTube videos (which is fine, but man, having a pro-shot must be amazing).

Satellite is definitely one of my most missed songs from this past year of performances, I understand not playing a lot of HM as much of it is very complex and a four piece might not pull it off well enough to justify it, but Satellite seems totally optimal. That right after The Great Destroyer would be incredible to see.

It is pretty cool. (Especially, b/c my seats were shitty and so my view wasn't as spectacular ;)

Some of the RITC/YouTube videos do a pretty good job though, I must say. I find myself often rewatching songs from the 2009 show I in saw in Kansas City.

The playing of The Great Destroyer does seem like playing Satellite would be possible.

I have at least one more show planned for this tour, maybe it'll happen.

[Ha, who knows, we may be due for a yet to be announced 10 date club show a la Wave Goodbye]

[Jordan]

Has anyone heard anything lately about the Limited Edition version of Hesitation Marks? Last I heard Russell Mills was going to start working on the canvas sometime this month.

[sheepdean]

Has anyone heard anything lately about the Limited Edition version of Hesitation Marks? Last I heard Russell Mills was going to start working on the canvas sometime this month.
Deluxe Broken/Fixed
Deluxe Fragile
Deluxe With Teeth
Ghosts Film Festival

Trent's history with releasing this kind of thing is SO strong, I'm sure we'll hear something soon :P

[gorast]

A re-release of HM was never on the cards, either. Mills' artbook was a separate thing.

[Jordan]

A re-release of HM was never on the cards, either. Mills' artbook was a separate thing.

Are you sure? I could have sworn Russell Mills said it was for a Limited Edition release of H.M. Something about a huge canvas being painted and cut into little squares, one being included in every release. I'm I confused?

[eversonpoe]

Are you sure? I could have sworn Russell Mills said it was for a Limited Edition release of H.M. Something about a huge canvas being painted and cut into little squares, one being included in every release. I'm I confused?

it's a book of all of the art he made for the album, but it doesn't come with any music. it is a separate entity.

[elevenism]

Deluxe Broken/Fixed
Deluxe Fragile
Deluxe With Teeth
Ghosts Film Festival

Trent's history with releasing this kind of thing is SO strong, I'm sure we'll hear something soon :P
i was actually looking for deluxe broken and fixed until i reread the post and realized who posted it ;)

[Jordan]

In his interview with Underneath It All podcast (about 14:58) Russell Mills talks about the 320 page book "Cargo in the Blood." He describes it as a Limited Edition release with all the H.M. artwork and explanations for the artwork. Each copy includes a piece of a canvas cut into 2500+ pieces. Mills says that it'll be released with the album in a new double gatefold sleeve. Also included are two "laser etched steel discs" containing all the lyrics and credits. Has the project changed since then?

[gorast]

I don't remember that last part about it containing the album. Probably vaporware just like every other better-than-baseline NIN release that didn't come out simultaneously with the regular editions.

[jessamineny]

We don't need an ultra-deluxe edition of an album that came out a year ago. That just seems like a cash grab, and very un-TR.

That art book from Mills sounds interesting, though.

[Jordan]

I'd agree it would interesting if he released the album again especially after he just released it in 6 different versions. However, I assume at some point Trent discussed the idea with Mills right? I don't think Mills would claim the project would include the album to a group of NIN die hards without believing himself that it would. Given Trents history, I understand heavy skepticism. I'm with you on that and that's why I'm asking. But since Russell's interview, has there been any word on the project or is it just speculation? If anyone wants to listen to the underneath it all podcast again, Mills talks about it at the 15 minute mark. If I misunderstood him, please correct me so I don't further make a fool of myself.

[eversonpoe]

I'd agree it would interesting if he released the album again especially after he just released it in 6 different versions. However, I assume at some point Trent discussed the idea with Mills right? I don't think Mills would claim the project would include the album to a group of NIN die hards without believing himself that it would. Given Trents history, I understand heavy skepticism. I'm with you on that and that's why I'm asking. But since Russell's interview, has there been any word on the project or is it just speculation? If anyone wants to listen to the underneath it all podcast again, Mills talks about it at the 15 minute mark. If I misunderstood him, please correct me so I don't further make a fool of myself.

as the editor of Underneath It All, i can tell you that you didn't misunderstand him, but that the format of the release has almost certainly changed a bit. that interview happened last year, when HM was still fresh and new, and at the time, it made sense. but now i would imagine that the book will be a standalone art book with no music.

[piggy]

This info was recently posted on the news section of Russell's site:
http://russellmills.com/russell_mills/news

"Mills’ trip to Los Angeles, originally planned for late April, has been postponed until the Autumn. Mills will travel with his collaborator Mike Fearon, to Los Angeles to undertake the painting of a large mixed media canvas towards the Cargo In The Blood: The Reverse Is Also True limited edition multiple. Once completed the canvas will be cut into 2500-3000 individual works, which will be framed in steel to become part of the limited edition multiple. In addition to several other items, Cargo In The Blood: The Reverse Is Also True will also contain a hardback five colour 320-page book showing all the works made towards use in the Hesitation Marks release, with interpretative texts charting the ideas behind each work. Each will be encased in a folding and individually cauterised suede portfolio. Edition number and publication date tbc."

[screwdriver]

empty thoughts into the ether:

spent the day so far prepping my own live material; with that done and the house to myself, I just put on the vinyl. really, really dig this album still. has that NIN-feeling that I had been missing since With Teeth -- don't know if its just studio polish or over thinking or what, but it really is up there with the rest of the catalog.

[GulDukat]

Loved it right away and still listen regularly.

[Halo Infinity]

It's been quite a while since I've given Hesitation Marks a proper listen. From the looks of it, I seem to like the second half of the album more, but I wonder if that has changed by now.

[JML9]

Loved it right away and still listen regularly.

Me too!!! Definitely in my top 3!!!

[WorzelG]

It's been quite a while since I've given Hesitation Marks a proper listen. From the looks of it, I seem to like the second half of the album more, but I wonder if that has changed by now.
I think this too, but the reason why is that most of the songs on the first half had already been heard (except All Time Low) by the time the album came out so the second half was more fresh

[JML9]

It's been quite a while since I've given Hesitation Marks a proper listen. From the looks of it, I seem to like the second half of the album more, but I wonder if that has changed by now.

Yes!!! LOVE VMOE,IWFY,In Two!!!!

[AlanMorlock]

I don't remember that last part about it containing the album. Probably vaporware just like every other better-than-baseline NIN release that didn't come out simultaneously with the regular editions.


The book is called "Cargo in the Blood: The Reverse is Also True"

Russell Mill's website has sent out several updates about over the last few months. Mills has already written the text of the book and production has already begun on large leather portfolios that the book will slip into.

Part of what comes with it as a piece of a giant canvas Mills is working on. Its going to be cut into a couple thosand pieces. Originally the work on the canvas was supposed to be done in May but got pushed to the end of the summer, sometime in the next 3 weeks. After that the piece will be cut up, and packaged with the books.

This is Mills' deal, not Trent's

[bobbie solo]

Loved it right away and still listen regularly.

sadly, the opposite for me. Only about 1/2 the album holds up for me: Copy of A, Find My Way, Various Methods (my favorite track, and the only one with truly noticeable live drums), I would For You, In Two & While I'm Still Here. I rarely play the album. damn shame.

[Kid A]

Me too!!! Definitely in my top 3!!!
Yep, it still rules.

[GulDukat]

sadly, the opposite for me. Only about 1/2 the album holds up for me: Copy of A, Find My Way, Various Methods (my favorite track, and the only one with truly noticeable live drums), I would For You, In Two & While I'm Still Here. I rarely play the album. damn shame.
I listened today during my morning jog, still not tired of it!

[BRoswell]

Honestly, the only song I'm not absolutely in love with is Running, but I'll still occasionally find myself wanting to listen to it. I haven't gotten tired of listening to the album yet, and considering that we're coming up on the one year anniversary of its release, I think that's a pretty good sign.

[kel]

it's a good album, but it's just been collecting dust since a month after it was released.

*shrug*

[eversonpoe]

Honestly, the only song I'm not absolutely in love with is Running, but I'll still occasionally find myself wanting to listen to it. I haven't gotten tired of listening to the album yet, and considering that we're coming up on the one year anniversary of its release, I think that's a pretty good sign.

the only song i don't like is Find My Way, and While I'm Still Here is only good to me because of the fact that Black Noise segues right out of it, and Black Noise is amazing.
but, for the most part, i really like the album. it's not my favorite, but it's great. i listened to it the other day for the first time in a while and it still holds up. it's also good for getting stuff done (i did dishes for the whole hour it was playing).

[m15a]

Forgot that I tried to pay attention to the songs I liked most from HM a couple weeks ago. I tried to limit the list to 7, which was kind of hard. Anyway, in album order:
Copy of A
All Time Low
Disappointed
Everything
In Two
While I'm Still Here
Black Noise

I don't think this is too different from how I felt after a few listens, although I like All Time Low a lot more after hearing it live.

[snaapz]

This is not a pump you up, feel good, up beat, happy, energetic, good mood album.

A few times now (road trip, fishing in a boat, hanging out with wife in bed) I've put the album on, skipped through the songs and end up not playing any songs from the album. We both love NIN and can find a few songs from any album to play when we are in a good mood. Not HM, not that that's a bad thing... just a very emotional album.

[WorzelG]

This is not a pump you up, feel good, up beat, happy, energetic, good mood album.

A few times now (road trip, fishing in a boat, hanging out with wife in bed) I've put the album on, skipped through the songs and end up not playing any songs from the album. We both love NIN and can find a few songs from any album to play when we are in a good mood. Not HM, not that that's a bad thing... just a very emotional album.
I feel the same way, I only play it to myself with headphones

[katara]

For me, the album is accessible to the point where there are only maybe a couple of tracks I won't play out loud for other people.

[implanted_microchip]

You know I was actually able to make fans out of a few different people with this album. Came Back Haunted has a very wide appeal, Copy of a netted people and Satellite is super catchy; Various Methods and, big shock, Everything were also really good starts for them. It's quickly become a good, easy intro to NIN type album.

[Space Suicide]

You know I was actually able to make fans out of a few different people with this album. Came Back Haunted has a very wide appeal, Copy of a netted people and Satellite is super catchy; Various Methods and, big shock, Everything were also really good starts for them. It's quickly become a good, easy intro to NIN type album.

With stuff like In Two and While I'm Still Here I'm surprised. A lot of the albums sound is from various kinds of their career but a few aren't easily accessible, unless you like other stuff, in my opinion.

[implanted_microchip]

With stuff like In Two and While I'm Still Here I'm surprised. A lot of the albums sound is from various kinds of their career but a few aren't easily accessible, unless you like other stuff, in my opinion.
If anything it allows the album to feel like a sort of potpourri of what NIN is and has been, after it I've been able to ask people their favorite songs and then easily recommend what album would be the best next.

[snaapz]

Sometimes I get the impression that TR dislikes and avoids doing or using anything more than once. I was pleasantly surprised and happy to hear the same (similar) synth used in 'A Warm Place' being used in 'Find My Way'. For many reasons the song has become one of my favourite. I recently discovered that buried deep in the ending/outro sounds of 'Find My Way' is a saxophone... I think. It's hard to pick out. (Around 4:45)

[Microwave Jellyfish]

I recently discovered that buried deep in the ending/outro sounds of 'Find My Way' is a saxophone... I think. It's hard to pick out. (Around 4:45)
Holy sh!t, never noticed that before. Not consciously, anyway. Million thanks!

[Jon]

The arpeggio towards the end of "All Time Low" still reminds me of the Final Fantasy Prelude.

[niggo]

I recently discovered that buried deep in the ending/outro sounds of 'Find My Way' is a saxophone... I think. It's hard to pick out. (Around 4:45)

But you don't mean the synth that also kicks in at the same time, do you? That's definitely not a sax, at least if we're talking about the same thing. It's a lot more present and noticeable when played live. I love it!

Edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOX7La9tnBc

The synth starts at 4:25

By the way, I was there in Berlin and that performance of Find My Way was fucking breathtaking. I saw it again in Vienna and it wasn't nearly as good there (but still awesome of course).

[Microwave Jellyfish]

But you don't mean the synth that also kicks in at the same time, do you? That's definitely not a sax, at least if we're talking about the same thing.
Whoah, that's a twist!

I bet it can go a little deeper.

Excuse me guys, Jelly's drunk again.

[Halo Infinity]

I noticed that I like to make a top 5 favorite songs list when it comes to albums. I don't think they've changed much though, but these are my 5 favorite songs from Hesitation Marks so far, as I seem to have been listening to these songs the most out of all of them.

Copy Of A
All Time Low
Everything
Satellite
Various Methods Of Escape

[Ryan]

twist!

it can go a little deeper.

you make it hurt real good

i love, love the paaaaiiinnnn

[snaapz]

But you don't mean the synth that also kicks in at the same time, do you? That's definitely not a sax, at least if we're talking about the same thing. It's a lot more present and noticeable when played live. I love it!



The synth starts at 4:25




No, I think I hear sax. Let me try to isolate and provide a sample.

See the 4 and 10 second mark for the strongest part. It could be a sax, it could be synth, it could be a creaking door opening to Trents basement.

http://snaapz.hopto.org/nin/find1.mp3

[littlemonkey613]

I recently discovered that buried deep in the ending/outro sounds of 'Find My Way' is a saxophone... I think. It's hard to pick out. (Around 4:45)

Hahah this makes me impressed with myself that I heard it on first listen. ;)
Seriously though the Find My Way outro is INSANE.

[Jordan]

Today is exactly one year since the release of Hesitation Marks. I know you've all been waiting for my 2 cents on the record, so here it is...
I fucking love it. It's not my favorite NIN album but it does hold a very important place in the NIN catalog. Just like most things NIN, it had to grow on me. But the music that grows on you is the music you love the most and that lasts the longest. Rather than go on for pages about what I love in HM, I'll state my complaints. I have two.

#1- There are so many cool sounds and noises in this record. However, many of them are so quiet in the mix. I hate it. I wish some of them would be just a little louder. It drives me crazy.
#2- The song "Everything" is not my favorite. I'm not a hater of the tune but to me, it doesn't feel like it fits. In fact, I removed it from the album on my ipod and it feels better this way. Trent said the album started with Everything and Satellite. He said they were both very different and the heavy electronic path that led to Satellite is what interested and inspired him. So that is the path he continued on for the rest of the album. To me, that's exactly how the album feels.
I've noticed how I rate the tracks on the album is very different than a lot of you on ETS rate them. I find this very interesting. It's difficult to rate them best to worst because I do love the entire album, but I'll try.

1- All Time Low
2- Came Back Haunted
3- Disappointed
4- Various Methods of Escape
5- Satellite
6- The Eater/Copy of a
7- While I'm still Here/Black Noise
8- In Two
9- I would For You
10- Running
11- Find My Way
12- Everything

[Halo Infinity]

If anything it allows the album to feel like a sort of potpourri of what NIN is and has been, after it I've been able to ask people their favorite songs and then easily recommend what album would be the best next.
In that case, I'd definitely go for Pretty Hate Machine and With Teeth. As for Hesitation Marks, as much as I'd love to give it a proper listen after 1 year, it kind of sucks right now, since all of my headphones are only working on one side again.

But yes, it has definitely stood the test of time for me as one of my most favorite albums that came out after The Fragile. :)

[Halo Infinity]

@elevenism (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) - I can't remember the exact post you said this, but you're right. Far be it from me to be an expert on being an audiophile, but listening to Hesitation Marks on the right headphones does it a lot of justice. Hearing the bass and the layers of some of the melodies that some headphones miss makes it a whole lot better. (I've been having bad luck with headphones over the years, as some of them were never that good to start with, or they just ended up dying on me.)

It just sounded a lot more clearer, thicker and fuller, with more panache or "oomph" if you will, even if it's just on one side. :) And now to find a decent working pair of headphones... soon... :confused: