halo twenty eight. hesitation marks. 09.03.2013

[r_k_f]

@elevenism (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) - I can't remember the exact post you said this, but you're right. Far be it from me to be an expert on being an audiophile, but listening to Hesitation Marks on the right headphones does it a lot of justice. Hearing the bass and the layers of some of the melodies that some headphones miss makes it a whole lot better. (I've been having bad luck with headphones over the years, as some of them were never that good to start with, or they just ended up dying on me.)

It just sounded a lot more clearer, thicker and fuller, with more panache or "oomph" if you will, even if it's just on one side. :) And now to find a decent working pair of headphones... soon... :confused:

my over priced Beats Pro's do this album a great deal of justice.. But like Jordan said, I wish some of the layers weren't so quiet.
A lot is lost in a standard set of ear buds or even most car stereos.
Also, remember there are those "audiophile" versions out there.

[elevenism]

my over priced Beats Pro's do this album a great deal of justice.. But like @Jordan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4509) said, I wish some of the layers weren't so quiet.
A lot is lost in a standard set of ear buds or even most car stereos.
Also, remember there are those "audiophile" versions out there.

with the car stereo, you've got to turn the fucker up REAL loud ;)

[SM Rollinger]

Strangely enough, my favorite has to be Find My Way. Like @littlemonkey613 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/members/497-littlemonkey613) said, the outtro is insane. The whole song is IMO. Aside from that, in no paticular order my other favorites are Copy, All Time Low, Everything, In Two and While I'm Still Here/Black Noise.

I feel like the middle part of the album, Disappointed through I Would For You,is lacking and could have used some more work. Its not that any of the songs are bad, but they lack the ambition of the tracks I mentioned above. Disappointed and Running just sound too similar to each other, as do Various Methods and I Would For You. The album tends to loose steam during tracks 6-11.

As for Satellite and CBH, im pretty neutral feeling about. Nothing special, almost generic sounding NIN tracks. Not bad, but nothing special.

[elevenism]

You know I was actually able to make fans out of a few different people with this album. Came Back Haunted has a very wide appeal, Copy of a netted people and Satellite is super catchy; Various Methods and, big shock, Everything were also really good starts for them. It's quickly become a good, easy intro to NIN type album.

my mom loves this fucking album. she's 56.

[Vertigo]

Same, and mine's 63. Her favourite band is Abba.

[eversonpoe]

posted on the NIN tumblr (http://nineinchnails.tumblr.com/post/101191228380/tonight-in-los-angeles-join-artist-russell-mills): Russell Mills art exhibition featuring the work he did for Hesitation Marks tonight in LA.


Tonight in Los Angeles, join artist Russell Mills (http://russellmills.com) and see the artwork he created for Nine Inch Nails (http://nineinchnails.tumblr.com/tagged/austin-city-limits)' Hesitation Marks. A unique sound installation created by Mills and his collaborator Michael Fearon will provide the sonic atmosphere for the exhibition. RSVP here (http://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/event?oeidk=a07ea0yrzm4babf5e09&llr=n48mnijab), capacity is limited.

sounds pretty cool!

[pwing47]

posted on the NIN tumblr (http://nineinchnails.tumblr.com/post/101191228380/tonight-in-los-angeles-join-artist-russell-mills): Russell Mills art exhibition featuring the work he did for Hesitation Marks tonight in LA.

Yeah, that would be a cool thing to attend! Anyone in LA planning on going to this? This part sounded especially intriguing:

An immersive self-generating sound installation created by Mills and collaborator Michael Fearon will provide the sonic atmosphere for the exhibition.

[sipblog]

my mom loves this fucking album. she's 56.

Same here. My mom became a NIN fan through Hesitation Marks and she's 62! She really thinks 'Copy of A' is the greatest song ever made LOL!

[martin_b]

Same here. My mom became a NIN fan through Hesitation Marks and she's 62! She really thinks 'Copy of A' is the greatest song ever made LOL!

As well as my 68 years old father and my 3 years old son. :-P

[WorzelG]

From a recent Billboard interview, we finally get to hear who Trent talks about in the 'in conversation' thing when he talks about getting an outside producer to shake up their way of working a bit. I'd be curious to hear the songs arranged as a band thing, (although I guess we did on the Tension tour?)

"On the last album, Hesitation Marks, we did something that impressed me. I said, "This same team of people have done the last several albums, we're comfortable with each other. I know what's going to happen. Let's bring in someone else as a producer. And let's empower them to see what happens."
It meant everyone taking a step back and relinquishing some power. At some point we all went, "This is bullshit. This isn't leading to a better result. This is just clutter." It only lasted a couple weeks.
Who was the producer, and what was the difference in approach?
It was Markus Dravs, who has worked with Arcade Fire (http://www.billboard.com/artist/279841/arcade-fire/chart) quite a bit. He's a song-based guy that's less a studio rat, engineer-type like we are. I don't want to throw him under the bus. I'm not here to talk shit about him. But there was a lot of "Let's get an ensemble of people to play this thing," and "We need an arranger to do that." It didn't feel like it was leading anywhere. I respect the guy and it didn't end in a fistfight or anything. He was a means to an end to make us realize that our instincts about the record were the right way to go. The record that was finished, I'm very proud of. It felt like a reinvention to me."

[gorast]

That was an interesting insight into (good lord all those 'ins') how the early part of the HM recording process went. Honestly, that Billboard interview was absolutely fantastic - a bunch of questions I haven't seen anyone ask Trent before, and he even talked about his hometown and how it's changed since he left. Great, great read.

[Wolfkiller]

This album is waaaaay crazy more tolerable when high. Satellite was written just for me!
Still convinced this album is a named literally, in a way. Sounds like it's about putting NIN to bed and moving on (also dying himself, like from a disease) so this album would be like a hesitation mark before NIN's suicide.

[hani]

Still convinced this album is a named literally, in a way. Sounds like it's about putting NIN to bed and moving on (also dying himself, like from a disease) so this album would be like a hesitation mark before NIN's suicide.

ummm, let's hope it is not

[xolotl]

Man, I know I've probably posted this exact same thing a number of months ago, but: this album is sooo damned good. Every so often I rediscover it and it's always such a joy. I feel quite comfortable saying this is my favorite NIN album.

And "Everything" remains badass.

Er, that is all, I guess?

[sweeterthan]

I love everything. It's a great song.

[Halo Infinity]

As of now, my favorite songs from Hesitation Marks would be Copy Of A, Find My Way, Everything, Satellite, Various Methods Of Escape, While I'm Still Here and Black Noise. I doubt that much as changed though, but I still find myself listening to the second half of the album more than the first half.

[BenAkenobi]

Anybody else associates those cracking noises in “Find my way” with walking on ice?

[Khrz]

No, I associate it with the old penitentiary blues tunes, where people would sing along to the rhythm of them breaking rocks. There are some recordings of such songs, and I find it really similar to this, either in sound, rhythm, or mood.

[pwing47]

I still find myself listening to the second half of the album more than the first half.

That's interesting, because the past few months whenever I've put it on, I almost always start it at VMoE and just do the second half.

Not because I don't love the entire album, but I think when I'm in a more calm/melancholy state of mind, I mostly just enjoy the 2nd half (VMoE -> WISH/BN). When I'm feeling more energetic/positive I enjoy the 1st half more (CoA -> Satellite).

[kel]

Just when I thought I couldn't love this album any more... http://postimg.org/image/sllvn1kvp/full/
i don't get it.

[Khrz]

i don't get it.
ninmachine just discovered a fact that most of us already knew, that's all :)

[kel]

ninmachine just discovered a fact that most of us already knew, that's all :)
okay, but wtf is that link directing me to? i see lyrics on a shitty page. i still don't get it.

[botley]

okay, but wtf is that link directing me to? i see lyrics on a shitty page. i still don't get it.
Scroll to the right. The annotation explains the Hank Williams reference.

[EndlessLoveless]

So after all this time the songs that have stuck with me the most are 'copy of a, all time low, various methods..., i would for you and in two'. One thing i always notice for some reason is the snare drum during the verses of 'all time low'. Its a very tight sound and i wish it was bigger and had more sustain on it. Imagine the snare at the beginning of 'heresy' or 'last'. I dont know why but i focus on that and wish that it was more powerful. It would def change the tone of that song a little. I still love it though.

[billpulsipher]

didnt think there would be a NIN album that would make me actually appreciate The Slip until I heard HM...year and a half later I feel the same way......other than copy of a, just complete filler...hopefully the new record has some balls to it

[Reaps]

I usually avoid 'the eater of dreams' because it makes my ears itchy. Seriously.

[Halo Infinity]

I'm still happy to say that Everything is one of my most favorite songs from Hesitation Marks. I almost listen to Everything as much as Copy Of A.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

Interesting. I wonder why Hesitation Marks was signed to Columbia. Who can tell me?

[Halo Infinity]

http://www.spin.com/articles/trent-reznor-nine-inch-nails-hesitation-marks-columbia-spin-september-2013-cover-story/

http://www.spin.com/articles/trent-reznor-david-byrne-major-labels-destroy-angels-radiohead/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nine-inch-nails-signs-columbia-559225

[sheepdean]

Interesting. I wonder why Hesitation Marks was signed to Columbia. Who can tell me?
Because Trent likes making money for his work, and being unsigned is fucking hard work.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

Well I'll just throw this one out there since we're talking about HM.

I'm going to talk about the most moving song off of Hesitation Marks for me personally; Various Methods of Escape. Find my Way does a good job of putting me in a mood of sorrow too, but it's Various Methods of Escape with it's immense power, loudness, and overwhelming emotion that brings me close to tears sometimes. The bridge, followed by the final chorus really closes the song well for me. That song hit me like a ton of bricks when I first heard it.

I have carried with me weight for years that sometimes fills me with defeat and sorrow. And I know, I've gotta let go. It's as if the song has been with me, inside me all along, before HM was even released, before I even heard anything from it. Finally, a song becomes very congruent with this particular, heavy feeling inside me. This is it, this is what I feel.


Now for my technical analysis:

VERSE
The funny thing I find about Various Methods of Escape is that for a heavy and emotional song, the verses sound quite groovy and not particularly "sad", aside from the lyrics. I mean when you compare the versus of the song All that Could Have Been, or Leaving Hope, or Find My Way, you can tell those songs are meant to put you in a mood of sorrow. The versus of Various Methods of Escape however, are actually quite "kool" sounding, and not particularly sad. Plus, I feel like with Trent's vocal filter on and the noise sort of exploding in the background with nice reverb and the thick bass rolling along, it's like I'm in space with the guy, and I'm observing him exploring some new planet, and he's got his big space helmet on and his kool space voice and he's introverting into his life and it's like, hmm, is this Spok Trent singing right now? I'm in fantasy land again.

CHORUS
Their is plenty of variation in this song. The choruses grow in length and the song does not become too repetitive especially for a song that consists of 3 choruses. I thought NIN did a great job at composing it and keeping it interesting the whole way through.

The second chorus is different than the first because it has some more instrumentation, such as the distant wining synth sound that bends parallel in pitch with the other instruments. The song also quickly goes right into the bridge after that second chorus. That really grabs the listeners attention again. What's more, to me I feel like the bridge was looked after sufficiently. I mean bridges these days.... I personally think a lot of artists overlook bridges and don't give enough attention and to them.

OUTRO
well, the final chorus is a real smash. The interesting thing is that instead of jumping into the lyrical pick-up "I've gotta let go", the final chorus starts off instrumental, with that powerful swarmatron and real drums and such, then Trent jumps in and gives his last say leaving his words to echo in our minds, literally. Sounds like analog delay on his vocals.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

Yeah I was really surprised he said there would be another album. I'm really curious about that. Excited to hear it.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

Everything eh? Yeah Everything is a funny one. I guess he was trying to sound like some generic thing but with an underlying dissonance.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

I thought he was signed under nothing records.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

That's my take on it.

[sheepdean]

I thought he was signed under nothing records.
Nothing Records doesn't exist anymore. And he left Interscope, of which Nothing was a subsidiary, after Year Zero Remixed came out. Ghosts and The Slip were released independently, and he re-signed, along with HTDA, to Columbia after that.

[SuperNINtendo Chalmers]

my mom loves this fucking album. she's 56.

Haha, same. Well, mine's 57, but it's weird to have the same person who would always yell at me to turn down my evil (NIN) music, now wanting to marry Trent and thinking Copy of A is the greatest song in the world.

And I agree with Wolfeater that the album title is literal, but I take it as...he tried to kill NIN (WG tour), but he hesitated. And here's the marks to show from it.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

I see. Yeah I figured Nothing wasn't really happening anymore.

[Halo Infinity]

I thought he was signed under nothing records.

http://www.nin.wiki/Nothing_Records

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_Records_discography

[billpulsipher]

I think it was a 1 record deal with Columbia so he should be a free agent.....

[sheepdean]

I think it was a 1 record deal with Columbia so he should be a free agent.....
I'd wager he maintained that contract just because HM was handled so much better.

[Halo Infinity]

It's probably about time that I actually get the deluxe edition of Hesitation Marks. I suppose I've enjoyed my regular version back to back more than enough times.


Couldn't agree more. Hesitation Marks is like life medicine for me; I have it on loop in my car and can't listen to anything else. But like all medicine, a tolerance builds and I'd be lying if I said HM is not beginning to wear out a little. I can only hope for the day we get a taste of something new, even if it's just a hint like you say.
I also agree, as Hesitation Marks has been great at holding me over. However, the wait doesn't seem as long now. I suppose it's because my perception of time just looks and feels slightly different now, and well, with Hesitation Marks not even being 2 full years old yet, not that much time has passed since it was released anyway. I've often seen more space between albums to be a good thing anyway, especially when it's not too much space. Breathing room is always a good thing as well.

Anyway, with how I've been immersed in the regular version, as I've mentioned, it really is about time for me to give the deluxe edition a shot. It also seems like more fans have ordered the deluxe edition too, but that's only what I've noticed with the few pictures I've seen posted here and at NIN.com and Provider Module.

[screwdriver]

Oh yeah, I feel like time is moving faster than ever. Probably a product of growing older.

My ex-gf had a great theory about that -- as you get older, you've experienced more total time, so your sensation of each individual moment is less and less significant to the whole. The difference between one drop of water in a bucket versus a drop of water in a pool. Because you're not feeling individual moments as much, the sensation of time speeds up.

[tony.parente]

My ex-gf had a great theory about that -- as you get older, you've experienced more total time, so your sensation of each individual moment is less and less significant to the whole. The difference between one drop of water in a bucket versus a drop of water in a pool. Because you're not feeling individual moments as much, the sensation of time speeds up.
Which is why when you were a child those moments were such a huge part of your life and your memories. When you were 5 one year was one fifth of your entire life, when you get older that percentage gets smaller and smaller until your years just blur into one grey ball of depression and sadness.

lol

[Ryan]

Which is why when you were a child those moments were such a huge part of your life and your memories. When you were 5 one year was one fifth of your entire life, when you get older that percentage gets smaller and smaller until your years just blur into one grey ball of depression and sadness.

lol

This legit sounds like the perfect concept for a new NIN song or even album.

[screwdriver]

Which is why when you were a child those moments were such a huge part of your life and your memories. When you were 5 one year was one fifth of your entire life, when you get older that percentage gets smaller and smaller until your years just blur into one grey ball of depression and sadness.

lol

having a brand new kid right now just puts in it in perspective sometimes -- he's only been around for 2.5 months! when we took him home from the hospital on the fourth day, I was like, "this is 1/4 of his entire existence right now! EPIC."

[Vertigo]

[Oh yeah, I feel like time is moving faster than ever. Probably a product of growing older.]

My ex-gf had a great theory about that -- as you get older, you've experienced more total time, so your sensation of each individual moment is less and less significant to the whole. The difference between one drop of water in a bucket versus a drop of water in a pool. Because you're not feeling individual moments as much, the sensation of time speeds up.

Personally I think it's caused by a slowing of the metabolism as we age. Flies metabolise like crazy, and to them, time moves several times slower than it does for us. That's why it's almost impossible to swat the buggers.

[screwdriver]

Personally I think it's caused by a slowing of the metabolism as we age. Flies metabolise like crazy, and to them, time moves several times slower than it does for us. That's why it's almost impossible to swat the buggers.

that's a really interesting theory

[Ryan]

that's a really interesting theory

Indeedly doodly.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

I forget to add that I've been covering the song Various Methods of Escape, and it's during my cover making process that I discover that songs sometimes have really weird beats per minutes.

I put the song into my sequencer so I could reference it and just when the last chorus begins, the tempo actually changes EXACTLY HALF a beat faster. You know, the part where the swarmatron takes over and the drums come in? Yeah, only half a beat faster for that whole outro. That struck me as peculiar. I guess it adds to the drama unconsciously?

[GlitchyFlame]

didnt think there would be a NIN album that would make me actually appreciate The Slip until I heard HM...year and a half later I feel the same way......other than copy of a, just complete filler...hopefully the new record has some balls to it
We know you don't like HM, Bill. It seems that you keep baiting ETS with more aggressive posts to get a bigger response. Sad.

[Halo Infinity]

didnt think there would be a NIN album that would make me actually appreciate The Slip until I heard HM...year and a half later I feel the same way......other than copy of a, just complete filler...hopefully the new record has some balls to it
I'm genuinely curious here. Was Year Zero then the last Nine Inch Nails album after The Fragile that you actually liked and enjoyed as a whole?

I at least know that you like Pretty Hate Machine up to The Fragile though, and that With Teeth was a let-down to you, but it's still hard for me to picture you not liking Year Zero at all, that is, unless I missed seeing you admitting disappointment to it. I also have a hunch that Ghosts I-IV was boring to you too.

As for Hesitation Marks, I had no idea that you would've actually disliked it even more than The Slip. That's actually news to me, as I really didn't see that coming, even if you couldn't stand Everything.

[BenAkenobi]

I swear, every time Kris writes stuff like this i wonder if he is conducting this whole thing where nin is really his project and Trent Reznor is just a puppet disguised as if he runs the show. That would explain a lot :D

[HurtinMinorKey]

As for Hesitation Marks, I had no idea that you would've actually disliked it even more than The Slip. That's actually news to me, as I really didn't see that coming, even if you couldn't stand Everything.

I feel sort of the same way as Bill here, except i always at least liked the Slip. But Hesitation Marks definitely made me appreciate it The Slip more. And i think describing HM as mostly filler is as good a description as most.

[neorev]

I think what could have made Hesitation marks better is a little more variation with the drum sounds within tracks.
They all stay kinda the same sounding. I wish we got some more live drum sounds/overlays with the electronic ones.
Especially when it comes to choruses to give them an extra kick.
I really missed the raw drums on the last album.
I actually quite love the live versions of the tracks with a full band... it helps give the music more sonic variation... natural vs artificial sound.
That was my one gripe with HM... I miss the old raw NIN days.

[Vertigo]

neorev, completely agreed, the drums are my only problem with that album (especially on Satellite, where they dominate the mix and never vary). I really wish the multitracks were released, it'd be very easy to make it a flawless piece of work (to my ear at least).
Year Zero bugged me a lot on release too, but as it's possible to modify anything you don't like, it's now my favourite album.

[Exocet]

My issue with Hesitation Marks was that if sounded like a good idea half formed.
Rushed, all over the place, undercooked. Same thing i felt about Year Zero and With Teeth, on all those albums there are great songs, but just sound like demos. I think had he spent a few more months on Year Zero it would have been a mindblowing album, instead it sounded a bit cheap. i think maybe i just preferd the music of OCD Trent who spent 2 years making albums.
But he was not down with doing that in the 2000s. He was obsessed with that Steve Albini style of production of capturing the live sound. Should have got Steve to produce The Slip.
if Trent makes more records i would love to see him use a different producer, Alan Moulder is like my favourite producer of all time. No one can make a guitar sound as good as him, I think he is a fucking genius, but think creative one between him and Trent has gone bit stale. For a while now.
Dave Sardy would be a great producer. Or Ross Robinson.

[WorzelG]

But didn't HM take 18 months to make? And the reason for that was because he got another producer in and tried using live instruments for the sounds but decided he didn't like it! Also I think I do much prefer the Copy of a without live drums after listening to the Tension version

(I guess he was doing Beats and HTDA while doing this album whereas the Fragile was completely focussed on that, maybe that could have an effect)

[Leviathant]

But he was not down with doing that in the 2000s. He was obsessed with that Steve Albini style of production of capturing the live sound.

Trent's approach to recording, even 'live' recording, is so completely far removed from Steve Albini's style. I get what you're saying - With Teeth and The Slip had 'live' sounding tracks, but their assembly bears no resemblance to Albini's production.

[billpulsipher]

I feel sort of the same way as Bill here, except i always at least liked the Slip. But Hesitation Marks definitely made me appreciate it The Slip more. And i think describing HM as mostly filler is as good a description as most.

I should clarify. I actually dont hate Slip...I hated the production and thought it sounded like shit, and it seemed like a rush job, so I considered it to be their weakest album....until HM....I probably like at least half the songs on Slip, where as with HM, maybe only 2 or 3......LITS is the best ballad he has written post Fragile

[Prettybrokenspiral]

LITS is the best ballad he has written post Fragile

Ah yes, the "let's see if I can write a ballad in five minutes" ballad. If there's any one track on The Slip that gives it the feeling of a rush job (which it most certainly is), its that song.

It's not bad. But it's certainly not Zero Sum, In This Twilight, Right Where It Belongs or And All That Could Have Been in the post-Fragile ballad canon.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

I forget to add that I've been covering the song Various Methods of Escape, and it's during my cover making process that I discover that songs sometimes have really weird beats per minutes.

I put the song into my sequencer so I could reference it and just when the last chorus begins, the tempo actually changes EXACTLY HALF a beat faster. You know, the part where the swarmatron takes over and the drums come in? Yeah, only half a beat faster for that whole outro. That struck me as peculiar. I guess it adds to the drama unconsciously?

Thanks for liking this. And seriously, I love this fuck'n song. It brings tears to my eyes. Who else is with me?

[Ryan]

Ah yes, the "let's see if I can write a ballad in five minutes" ballad. If there's any one track on The Slip that gives it the feeling of a rush job (which it most certainly is), its that song.

It's not bad. But it's certainly not Zero Sum, In This Twilight, Right Where It Belongs or And All That Could Have Been in the post-Fragile ballad canon.

I really disagree on that one. The way it's written, the piano and the lyrics really give off a feeling of drowning. It's perfectly executed in my eyes/ears.

[BRoswell]

Yeah, Lights In The Sky is great, and I would say, aside from maybe AATCHB, it's on par with the rest of the songs listed. The live version gives me chills.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I'm not hating on it; it just sounds like something he wrote in the course of an afternoon, like NIN by-the-numbers. Taken for what it is, it's fine to me.

Just nowhere close to his other ballads, in my opinion. Even something relatively simple in kind, like While I'm Still Here, trumps it for me.

[Khrz]

I'm really on @NYRexall (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=911) 's side on that one. LITS is good, but it does sound like Reznor trying to out-ballad every previous NIN ballad.. It's even slower, the piano is even more mournful, Reznor is even more soft-spoken...
As I said, I like it, but in my opinion calling it the "best ballad he has written post Fragile" is really stretching it... As NyRexall said, even While I'm Still Here which isn't the most inventive song to ever figure on a NIN album has more creativity to it...

[WorzelG]

While I'm Still Here and Black Noise came into their own so much live I generally don't listen to the album version anymore.

[Ryan]

While I'm Still Here and Black Noise came into their own so much live I generally don't listen to the album version anymore.

Any specific live versions you listen to?

[WorzelG]

Any specific live versions you listen to?
Mainly the Austin City Limits performance,

But the below was a particularly good capture of black noise i thought. It seemed like earlier in the tour, black noise was a much more rounded mix of more piano / more saxophone textures, and by the end of the tour it became more focussed on virtuoso back-up singer performances
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfwrzDVgs1k

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Which is why when you were a child those moments were such a huge part of your life and your memories. When you were 5 one year was one fifth of your entire life, when you get older that percentage gets smaller and smaller until your years just blur into one grey ball of depression and sadness.

lol

Were you listening to Right Where It Belongs when you wrote this, bruh?

[GlitchyFlame]

When people call Trent a hypocrite and a sell out for signing to another major label, they seem to forget that Trent was barely making money from his last few projects. People seem to have the idea that making money is a bad thing and makes you greedy which is absolutely ridiculous. Tell me, did the general public even know what The Slip was? How about Ghosts? or HTDA? They had no clue what it was. Mainly because they didn't have a giant record label's PR team advertising the albums to great extent. So far it seems that Columbia hasn't interfered with the music itself so why are people making such a big deal over it? As long as they don't fuck over the artist and the artist's art, why complain about it?

[BRoswell]

Because, like, fuck record labels, bro.

Seriously though, I think Trent has found a happy medium, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[telee.kom]

Trent was barely making money from his last few projects

I thought Ghost was commercial success for Trent?

[WorzelG]

I thought Ghost was commercial success for Trent?
And considering the Slip was free from nin.com I thought the physical CD release did really well to get to 13 in the Billboard charts. I'm sure it made some showing in the UK charts as well, in fact it made a showing in 11 charts according to wiki

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Inch_Nails_discography

I think the decision to sign with a label was more not wanting to spend all that energy on promotion, it's just tiring, and if you're in a position where somebody else will do it for you, why not? (wish he'd get a better promotional team though)

[ike_krull]

I went to see the Russell Mills exhibition in Halifax UK yesterday, it's worth going to see before it closes on the 19th.
Russell was giving an interview when I went, the interviewer asked about NIN, they discussed meeting for the Downward spiral and the work on Hesitation marks, I'm not sure what it was recorded for.
The introduction mentioned the Cargo in the blood book saying it will be available 2015 limited to 2000 copies.

Gallery here : http://imgur.com/a/rBglA

http://i.imgur.com/yVou6kqm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xL66gtNm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HeT0bzEm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MsxrTSJm.jpg

[witte]

great pictures, great art. mills put a lot of effort in it. high quality art and very variant. love it.
unfortunately does the album not reach the same level. too bad.
this art deserved a better album...

[Al_Hunter]

I'm going to the exhibition tomorrow so will try to get photos or whatever while I'm there!

[katara]

I love the way the three album covers Other Murmurs, Cargo In The Blood, and Time And Again have already been bought.

I'd have thought that those would have been given to or purchased by Trent himself.

[Shadaloo]

Broke it out again after a few months away. My initial months listening left me with the impression it'd wind up being my third fave NIN album, behind TDS/TF. Glad to see that still holds.

[Vertigo]

Mm, broke my disc out of retirement yesterday too, for an epic car journey in which I covered (personally modified versions of) TDS, Fragile, Year Zero and Hesitation Marks. Running and Everything have grown on me, but other than that, still holding my initial impression - brilliant musicianship, no weak tracks, resonant lyrical themes, some goosebump-generating moments (Various Methods' bathtub interlude in particular), two all-time-best-NIN tracks bookending the album (not the instrumentals).
Main problems are still the same: percussion is monotonous/inorganic and mixed too loud, Came Back Haunted goes on too long.

In terms of the standard albums I'd only put Downward Spiral ahead of it, but I'm more fond of my conservatively remixed Year Zero and condensed Fragile. If Trent & co released enough tools for us to fiddle around with the drum tracks... oh the droolmanity.

[WorzelG]

Usually I listen to music with my medium price small ear fitting sennheisers, but they recently broke, and I took to using some more expensive ones that I usually use on the laptop (but I hardly use this anymore, its all ipad), and a whole bunch of sounds have come to light at the end of Find My Way including a saxophone bit that I hadn't heard before! It just reminded me why I love NIN

[BBomkamp]

I thought Ghost was commercial success for Trent?

Totally. it was a huge success.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/nine-inch-nails-ghosts-i-iv-makes-trent-reznor-an-instant-millionaire-20080313

[butter_hole]

Totally. it was a huge success.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/nine-inch-nails-ghosts-i-iv-makes-trent-reznor-an-instant-millionaire-20080313
Pretty sure he was a millionaire before 2008, no?

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p8CFsfPIS4

Not sure if this is old news, but I was sifting through my audiophile version of Hesitation Marks and found that the back cover claims to have used parts of Hank Williams Weary Blues.

What's more, Trent borrowed parts of the lyrics which was interesting. It's interesting how this old Hank Williams song has relatable lyrics regarding loneliness, but the whole arrangement and the vocals just sound, aghem*, utterly silly...

[Krazy]

Pretty sure he was a millionaire before 2008, no?


Yeah, pretty stupid article title from RS.

But then again it's RS, so I'd say it's at least par for the course from them.

All of the RS joking aside I'm pretty damn sure he had a net worth north of seven figures at that time.

[eversonpoe]

Not sure if this is old news, but I was sifting through my audiophile version of Hesitation Marks and found that the back cover claims to have used parts of Hank Williams Weary Blues.

What's more, Trent borrowed parts of the lyrics which was interesting. It's interesting how this old Hank Williams song has relatable lyrics regarding loneliness, but the whole arrangement and the vocals just sound, aghem*, utterly silly...

there was a whole big discussion about this when the album first came out.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

there was a whole big discussion about this when the album first came out.

LOL awe man. Can you actually hear parts of this Hank Williams song in While I'm Still Here? I want to try and listen again because I haven't noticed it yet. Only the lyrics.


there was a whole big discussion about this when the album first came out.

or wait, did Trent sample parts of that song or did he only borrow the lyrics?

http://www.pilltapes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/russell-mills-nine-inch-nails-hesitation-marks-cover.jpg

What's the name of this piece? I love it.

[butter_hole]

Tainted Echo

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

Hey echo's check this out: To you music theory and composition enthusiasts out their.

So I'm listening to the bridge chord progression in the song In Two, and to my surprise, instead of finding a relatively easy to follow 4 bar chord progression, like in the bridge of songs like Various Methods of Escape, or the chorus of most NIN music, I stumble across a confusing, seemingly 5 or 6 bar progression... Or so I thought...
Being so naturally curious about this stuff, I decided to synchronize In Two in my sequencer and program a simple bass patch to follow the songs bass. Guess what I find out. The crazy muthuh Trent starts his usual 4 bar chord progression half way!!! I don't know about you guys but I thought that was really clever and subtle way to confuse good listeners.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

I wish I could post the snapshot I took of my sequencer showing the relationship between the first few bars of the bridge and the rest of it. Can't I just upload photos that are on my computer instead of through a weblink URL?

[piggy]

http://www.pilltapes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/russell-mills-nine-inch-nails-hesitation-marks-cover.jpg

What's the name of this piece? I love it.
It's called "Lures" and you can read more about all the HM artwork here:
http://www.nin.wiki/Hesitation_Marks#Artwork

[eversonpoe]

LOL awe man. Can you actually hear parts of this Hank Williams song in While I'm Still Here? I want to try and listen again because I haven't noticed it yet. Only the lyrics.


or wait, did Trent sample parts of that song or did he only borrow the lyrics?

it's only the lyrical reference.

also, i know people have said this before, but seriously, learn to edit your posts. there's no reason to make two posts in the same thread a minute apart.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

It's called "Lures" and you can read more about all the HM artwork here:
http://www.nin.wiki/Hesitation_Marks#Artwork

Oh yeah you're right it said right on Mill's website. Thanks though.


Tainted Echo

lol am I tainted?


I think what could have made Hesitation marks better is a little more variation with the drum sounds within tracks.
They all stay kinda the same sounding. I wish we got some more live drum sounds/overlays with the electronic ones.
Especially when it comes to choruses to give them an extra kick.
I really missed the raw drums on the last album.
I actually quite love the live versions of the tracks with a full band... it helps give the music more sonic variation... natural vs artificial sound.
That was my one gripe with HM... I miss the old raw NIN days.

That's a good point you're right the drums don't have a lot of variation, but I feel that his use of acoustic drums in HM was sufficient since he used them often in the loudest, most painful parts of songs; the last chorus/outro. e.g. Various Methods of Escape and I Would For You.


My issue with Hesitation Marks was that if sounded like a good idea half formed.
Rushed, all over the place, undercooked. Same thing i felt about Year Zero and With Teeth, on all those albums there are great songs, but just sound like demos. I think had he spent a few more months on Year Zero it would have been a mindblowing album, instead it sounded a bit cheap. i think maybe i just preferd the music of OCD Trent who spent 2 years making albums.
But he was not down with doing that in the 2000s. He was obsessed with that Steve Albini style of production of capturing the live sound. Should have got Steve to produce The Slip.
if Trent makes more records i would love to see him use a different producer, Alan Moulder is like my favourite producer of all time. No one can make a guitar sound as good as him, I think he is a fucking genius, but think creative one between him and Trent has gone bit stale. For a while now.
Dave Sardy would be a great producer. Or Ross Robinson.

I'm really surprised to hear that. I was very impressed by Year Zero. I was mostly entranced by Trent's subtle vocal effects as well as the very aggressive ones. I thought Year Zero was stunning.

About HM, could you point out specifically where you think the parts have been rushed? I'm just surprised to hear that because of the subtle nuances I've picked up in the album. The only place I can think of right now that have been rushed in my mind are the places where Trent just abruptly jumps from section to section, like chorus to bridge, and so forth. But I don't know, maybe that was intentional.

Who was the person on this thread who said something like Russell Mills's artwork was much better than the album it was made for.

I'm not gonna get angry and argue with you but I'm very curious as to what disappointed you about the album. I would love to know how Trent could have made it (to your ears) sound equally amazing as Russell Mills's artwork.

I compose as my hobby so it's in my best interest to hear what other people think about this kind of stuff.


I think what could have made Hesitation marks better is a little more variation with the drum sounds within tracks.
They all stay kinda the same sounding. I wish we got some more live drum sounds/overlays with the electronic ones.
Especially when it comes to choruses to give them an extra kick.
I really missed the raw drums on the last album.
I actually quite love the live versions of the tracks with a full band... it helps give the music more sonic variation... natural vs artificial sound.
That was my one gripe with HM... I miss the old raw NIN days.

How did you like the drums on the song Echoplex from The Slip? I thought it was really well done, I mean just chalk full of dynamics and variation, fills and what have you.

But yeah I mean it's true acoustic drums do give chorus's more kick. At least Trent made an effort to put on a different snare in the chorus of one of my favorite songs, VMOE. In that song he also took away and added reverb to the verse snare.
I find that even though the beats don't have much variation in HM, to me the way Trent compensates is by adding/layering extra percussive sounds. Did you notice that in the song All Time Low, the snare in the outro actually morphs slightly from a snare-ish sound, to a clapish sound, and even to a kind of clap sound with what sounds like a short little sample underneath it. I was amazed by the subtly in that.

Thank you Kris, for liking virtually every post I've made.

[Khrz]

And there's a bunch of them...

[Dr Channard]

Who was the person on this thread who said something like Russell Mills's artwork was much better than the album it was made for.

I'm not gonna get angry and argue with you but I'm very curious as to what disappointed you about the album. I would love to know how Trent could have made it (to your ears) sound equally amazing as Russell Mills's artwork.

I compose as my hobby so it's in my best interest to hear what other people think about this kind of stuff.
I’m not the person who said that, but I see where they may be coming from, although I’d put it differently. The album artwork for HM is fantastic, probably my favorite artwork for any nin release, it’s that good. And it strikes me as so very reminiscent of (or inspired by) TDS art that it seems a strange fit for HM which is about the furthest away from TDS as we can get within the nin discography. But I personally wouldn’t call HM disappointing, it’s just a different animal, perhaps a more tame animal.

[jessamineny]

I’m not the person who said that, but I see where they may be coming from, although I’d put it differently. The album artwork for HM is fantastic, probably my favorite artwork for any nin release, it’s that good. And it strikes me as so very reminiscent of (or inspired by) TDS art that it seems a strange fit for HM which is about the furthest away from TDS as we can get within the nin discography. But I personally wouldn’t call HM disappointing, it’s just a different animal, perhaps a more tame animal.

TR said himself that he was thinking of TDS when recording HM, and purposefully reached out to Mills to do the artwork because of the connection.

To me as a listener, the content of HM definitely relates to TDS, beginning with the album opener, which has always sounded like "waking up in the hospital" to me.

[BRoswell]

Yeah, it definitely connects with TDS, even if they are sonically different from one another. It's all about dealing with the aftermath.

[Indefinite_Cure]

Lyrically it connects just as much if you look at it that way: He has gone down the path and now he tries to find his way back up but slowly, he realizes that this whole thing has created a duality inside of him while dealing with his addictions.

Copy Of A: I'm not as lonely as I thought I am, a lot of people have passed through those kind of torments before me and I'm not that special. Also, he's an "echo" of himself, living with the aftermath of what he's been through.

Came Back Haunted: Trent himself talking about how he had to act as that character he created for TDS and then he "came back haunted" now afraid he could go back to being that way again. Or, character-wise, how he acted as he thought he should act based on what he saw around him and how that made him go down the wrong path and now he's afraid of that.

Find My Way: Obviously about someone trying to find himself again after coming sober and/or overcoming an overdose

All Time Low: A song about the dark voices of addiction still present in his head, the danger of relapse in which he does fall (think about the end of the song). After which...:

Disappointed: The song about his frustration towards himself not being able to resist the temptation of relapse. How a relapse never feels as good as you think it will and so how disapointed he his at himself but also at the drugs he took.

Everything: The side of himself that has survived through "everything" screaming out as a way of convincing himself he did overcome his addictions thus creating a second personality

Satellite: This is the first song in which you can see a kind of dialogue between the two personalities: the one who succumbed to the addictions and the one who overcame them. One observing the other and this really works with the different sounds he uses for his voice for different parts of the lyrics.

I could go on in details but the rest of the songs are pretty much about him trying to get away from the other part of himself that succumbs to addictions and the last song is him telling the truth about himself as in saying: I can't fight this forever, I'll probably succumb again, hold me while I'm still here...and then he falls again during Black Noise...

[Khrz]

The caveat being that beside YZ, every NIN record could connect to TDS lyrically, due to the autobiographical nature of the raw material...

[sheepdean]

The caveat being that beside YZ, every NIN record could connect to TDS lyrically, due to the autobiographical nature of the raw material...
TDS tells a story more though, it isn't really autobiographical (at least, the latter half certainly isn't)

[Khrz]

Well yeah, there's a certain measure of embellishment. When his albums have a narrative, it's always a character, but that character serves to express Reznor's feelings, that's what I meant by "raw material" :)

[BRoswell]

HM is more retrospective than the other albums that followed TDS though (Year Zero/Ghosts notwithstanding). The other albums feel more "in the moment". Shit's going down RIGHT NOW, as opposed to HM, which feels more like "shit went down, I'm different now, but I'm so afraid of the past coming back to haunt me". You certainly get a taste of that with the other albums, but HM is really the only album that completely encompasses that idea.

[Dr Channard]

TR said himself that he was thinking of TDS when recording HM, and purposefully reached out to Mills to do the artwork because of the connection.

To me as a listener, the content of HM definitely relates to TDS, beginning with the album opener, which has always sounded like "waking up in the hospital" to me.

As far as subject matter, I think HM is simply about Trent reflecting on himself, and how he has changed as a person since TDS era. Not any kind of continuation of TDS album or the fictional story it told. And that’s about as deep as the connection goes between the albums, in my estimation.

Edit: I could be wrong, that’s just the way I hear the album and what I interpreted Trents comments of "I was thinking a lot about ‘The Downward Spiral’ album era, and the person I was at that time." to mean.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

I’m not the person who said that, but I see where they may be coming from, although I’d put it differently. The album artwork for HM is fantastic, probably my favorite artwork for any nin release, it’s that good. And it strikes me as so very reminiscent of (or inspired by) TDS art that it seems a strange fit for HM which is about the furthest away from TDS as we can get within the nin discography. But I personally wouldn’t call HM disappointing, it’s just a different animal, perhaps a more tame animal.

Interesting. I see what you mean.

[MrSlfDstruct]

I’m not the person who said that, but I see where they may be coming from, although I’d put it differently. The album artwork for HM is fantastic, probably my favorite artwork for any nin release, it’s that good. And it strikes me as so very reminiscent of (or inspired by) TDS art that it seems a strange fit for HM which is about the furthest away from TDS as we can get within the nin discography. But I personally wouldn’t call HM disappointing, it’s just a different animal, perhaps a more tame animal.

I agree with this as well. I'm still hoping we'll get a tweet/post/smoke signal from Rob about the Hesitation Marks wallpapers he said they would release.

I think by making the artwork so reminiscent of TDS, it set an expectation that there would be similarities between the two records when, as you stated, they're about as far from each other as they could be. Which isn't bad, but . . . the gritty, dirty artwork style didn't really seem to fit for me with what is a very "clean" sounding record.

[billpulsipher]

"middle aged man whispering angrily with his drum machine."

still the best review I have read about this album 19 months later

[WorzelG]

^^^the reviewer sounds like someone who idolises youth and thinks there's something inherently bad about getting older

[nineinchnerd]

"middle aged man whispering angrily with his drum machine."

still the best review I have read about this album 19 months later

Which review is this? Sounds hilarious. Probably another ageist.

[BRoswell]

"middle aged man whispering angrily with his drum machine."

still the best review I have read about this album 19 months later

The best review you've read is one that doesn't even accurately describe the album, but whatever.

[screwdriver]

"middle aged man whispering angrily with his drum machine."

still the best review I have read about this album 19 months later

If that's intended to be insulting, it's not. I've fallen back into this album hard.

[implanted_microchip]

^^^the reviewer sounds like someone who idolises youth and thinks there's something inherently bad about getting older

Or that getting older somehow removes all your problems and makes you immune to feeling anything negative or painful in life, a criticism NIN seems to have gotten since The fucking Fragile. You'd think people would have the opposite attitude, that as you age you have more reasons to be upset, but not music critics apparently.

[Khrz]

Or that getting older somehow removes all your problems and makes you immune to feeling anything negative or painful in life, a criticism NIN seems to have gotten since The fucking Fragile. You'd think people would have the opposite attitude, that as you age you have more reasons to be upset, but not music critics apparently.

Well, as unfair as that excerpt sounded, you are "allowed" to be angry past your thirties, but your existential crisis and motivations for ire have supposedly deepened, and become more mature with you... The fact that Reznor tends to write in a very simplistic way (edging on naïve sometimes) makes this anger and angst look a bit too "green" for a person his age...

On the other hand, that criticism above is only really fair when talking about The Fragile or With_Teeth... Neither The Slip not Hesitation Marks sounded immature in their expressions of loss and angst to me, especially when considering that the latter is Reznor imagining an alternate timeline for himself, and writing from that perspective... And Year Zero wasn't groundbreaking when it comes to socio-political commentary, but at least it proved some awareness and concern about "serious" subjects outside the sphere of the self...

[WorzelG]

On the other hand, that criticism above is only really fair when talking about The Fragile or With_Teeth...
some of the lyrics yes, but then the 0-60 seconds vitriol of the last verse of Somewhat Damaged ending with 'where the fuck were you' and those crushing guitars are some of the most affecting musical moments I've ever heard

[Khrz]

Then again, English is my second language, it creates a filter of sorts, making language less impactful ; I only really rely on the music, the writing has very little immediate emotional impact. It also makes it more difficult to recognize great or terrible writing. NIN had never been cringeworthy on a visceral level, it's only intellectual...
That's the reason why I very rarely listen to French music incidentally, I just can't stand the immediate embarrassment of bad writing...

[implanted_microchip]

some of the lyrics yes, but then the 0-60 seconds vitriol of the last verse of Somewhat Damaged ending with 'where the fuck were you' and those crushing guitars are some of the most affecting musical moments I've ever heard

Yeah honestly the simplicity is sometimes really all it needs to have. The Fragile's by a guy who has lost his closest family member, has spent several years in intense self-doubt and had a lot of his closest friends grow to not like him or cut him off completely, a dismantling of relationships in general, delving into a deep depression, trying antidepressants and finding them numbing instead of alleviating, falling down the neck of a bottle and finding himself suffering from a bad cocaine addiction, found himself becoming very antisocial and outwardly negative to close friends, had just had his entire style and quality of life change seemingly overnight after a huge success and then had a million people saying "Oh, you're not relevant anymore" and a record label that was supposedly giving him all this freedom with his own imprint now getting demanding and frustrated with him. How are those not reasons to be angry, depressed, frustrated, anxiety-ridden? I don't know, I've never gotten the whole complaint about The Fragile seeming childish or immature, and even if it is immature, why can't immaturity be something some adults deal with?

But more on topic here, I think that Hesitation Marks is a fairly adult exploration of still fighting with addiction and depression and those things weighing you down as you get older. Here you are with a wife and children and enough wealth to never work again if you play your cards right. You've got all the American ideal had to sell you. You're successful and recognized as talented and have gone from being criticized by more "prestigious" people and accused of being a passing fad to winning an Academy Award and gaining high praise from pretty much everyone as a professional and as an artist. You've been sober for a long time, you didn't kill yourself, you're still here and your life seems better than ever. But that doesn't make mental illness or issues just dissipate and disappear, and you still have your darker moments and know that there's still that thing inside of you, and if you're not careful it'll swallow you whole all over again.

"This thing that lives inside of me, will surely rise and wake/And just who you thought you used to be, all begins to bend and break," clearly Everything is happy NIN, right?

I don't know, that general subject matter of depression and addiction with age is something I've personally not seen depicted in music quite like Hesitation Marks did it. I Would For You seems like one of the most really private things Trent's written; I've always seen it as him wishing he could be a better husband and better person and finding himself fighting and arguing and still acting like that guy he tries to not be anymore. "If I could be somebody else, well I think I would for you ... And this has happened all before, and this will happen all again, and I only have myself to blame, and I only have myself to blame." There's just this really personal sense of blame and accountability for who you are and your worse parts, accepting that side of yourself as a part of yourself.

I've written a lot about how Trent's lyrics often seem to characterize and personify depression and addiction as this sort of split self, and Hesitation Marks feels like the culmination of that, where Trent's accepting that side as a part of who he is, not some exterior and independent personality. "It's getting harder to tell the two of you apart, I don't believe you can even remember which one you are." While I'm Still Here/Black Noise is like realizing you're neither of these people, you're them combined because you've always been both, and you're finally seeing that and accepting it and you know you're not going to be able to separate them forever. It's this farewell to who you are, to who you've been, to what you used to be. It's this acceptance and reconciliation that as much as you wish that person you once were wasn't really you, it was, and that's something you have to deal with.

Kind of a random aside but While I'm Still Here/Black Noise was probably the most emotionally moving song I've seen NIN play live, just over-powering beyond belief. Lisa and Sharlotte's backing vocals on Black Noise made that song even bigger than it sounds in studio.

[billpulsipher]

Well, as unfair as that excerpt sounded, you are "allowed" to be angry past your thirties, but your existential crisis and motivations for ire have supposedly deepened, and become more mature with you... The fact that Reznor tends to write in a very simplistic way (edging on naïve sometimes) makes this anger and angst look a bit too "green" for a person his age...

On the other hand, that criticism above is only really fair when talking about The Fragile or With_Teeth... Neither The Slip not Hesitation Marks sounded immature in their expressions of loss and angst to me, especially when considering that the latter is Reznor imagining an alternate timeline for himself, and writing from that perspective... And Year Zero wasn't groundbreaking when it comes to socio-political commentary, but at least it proved some awareness and concern about "serious" subjects outside the sphere of the self...

Robert Smith did a great interview when he turned 50 about how its fucking bullshit for anyone to think because you get older you are somehow automatically more mature and not allowed to be angry and confused anymore...His point was hes as angry and confused at 50 as he was when he was 17....the great Ice Cube just said the same thing, how at 45 years old and being a millionaire, he still has the same anger he had when he was 19.....its just TR publicists/fanboys/rob boy who like to shove the "TR has matured and is happy now, hes not an angry kid anymore" nonsense...TR wasnt an angry kid when he did Fragile last time I checked. He was a 35 year old MAN

[WorzelG]

Robert Smith did a great interview when he turned 50 about how its fucking bullshit for anyone to think because you get older you are somehow automatically more mature and not allowed to be angry and confused anymore...His point was hes as angry and confused at 50 as he was when he was 17....the great Ice Cube just said the same thing, how at 45 years old and being a millionaire, he still has the same anger he had when he was 19.....its just TR publicists/fanboys/rob boy who like to shove the "TR has matured and is happy now, hes not an angry kid anymore" nonsense...TR wasnt an angry kid when he did Fragile last time I checked. He was a 35 year old MAN

I think you're so wrong here, I think Trent hates journalists who say things like 'happily married oscar winner' and say that shit, I don't think he's pushed it at all

[Dr Channard]

People are criticizing HM because Trent is too old to be angry? What? Why? How? Who?

Trent is hardly ever angry on HM, it is essentially the least angry nin LP ever (-Ghosts). It has a few noisy parts sure, but don’t mistake every noise or shout for anger here, this is much more reflective in tone.

[Khrz]

Robert Smith did a great interview when he turned 50 about how its fucking bullshit for anyone to think because you get older you are somehow automatically more mature

Well, more mature hopefully, no ? There's nothing sadder than an immature forty/fifty-something.
Nobody says it means you can't be ruined by a breakup anymore, it means you don't live your relationships the same way you did when you were 20... You're more experienced, hence more mature, have a different outlook and perspective on these sorts of things.
I never said you couldn't be angry anymore, I'm 40 and I'm as pissed as I was when I was half that age, but for instance I'm aware that the issues and problems that anger me aren't as clear-cut as I thought they were back then... That's maturity, a usually natural process of growth and aging, you experience informs your opinions and outlook more and more...
Of course it's natural to be angry, or sad, or confused, it's called the human condition... But there's a point when you just can't write the lyrics for "Break Stuff" and be taken seriously anymore.

[r_z]

Co-Sign. Because what's bothering me personally with NIN is not the fact that the lyrics concern those topics. It's more in the way they're adressed. It often comes off as superficial and full of cliches. And as someone who knows his NIN you've heard them a million times before.

[BRoswell]

It often comes off as superficial and full of cliches.

Please. Those cliches have been built into the lyrics since Pretty Hate Machine. I've said it before, but with a few exceptions, Trent has never been a great lyricist. He certainly can evoke certain feelings through his words, but his lyrics have never been particularly amazing. That's not to say I hate them. I enjoy his lyrics quite a bit, but if you think he's only recently turned to those cliches, you might want to think again.

Also, am I the only one who has never felt that Trent's music is a completely accurate reflection of who he is? I've always seen his music like I see the relationship between an author and a book they may write. They may speak of feelings and situations we can relate to in some way, and sometimes the inspiration comes from their own lives, but in the end, it's fiction. Trent even said that The Downward Spiral only became autobiographical in some ways AFTER it was made. I don't think Trent has to be wallowing in misery to write and record music about it. Trent knows his genre and he sticks to it. If you're tired of the genre, stop reading. Simple as that.

[Halo Infinity]

Or that getting older somehow removes all your problems and makes you immune to feeling anything negative or painful in life, a criticism NIN seems to have gotten since The fucking Fragile. You'd think people would have the opposite attitude, that as you age you have more reasons to be upset, but not music critics apparently.
I actually brought this up recently. (Well, more like last month.)

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/139-Random-NIN-Thoughts?p=255217#post255217

It always occurred me as well, since a lot of those topics can also be very relatable in advanced age, especially from all the losses that will be experienced or witnessed by then, aside from other reasons to suffer and worry in those years. I understand that it doesn't always have to be that way, and that there are choices to make one's life better, but sometimes suffering and worrying is obviously and inevitable and irrevocable part of life. (And life sometimes seems to eat itself and crash down on itself too, with very little to no explanation or meaning.)

To me, Nine Inch Nails was also about dealing with pain and loss, and owning up to it, but overcoming it. If it turns out to be cycle, I'm able to understand and accept that, because such is life from time to time depending on one's life and overall situations, as morbid as that sounds and is. One thing often starts where another thing ends anyway, good or bad. As nice as it would be, none of those "bad" things ever completely go away no matter how old you are, and there is no such thing as being prepared and equipped to deal with all sorts of fates. But of course, some might have it worse than others, better than others and everything else between.

I'm also thinking about the line of The Wretched that made me think of it. "You can try to stop it, but it keeps on coming." But how you deal with it is your choice, but at the same time, sometimes it isn't. One thing is for sure is that it'll keep on coming no matter what, just like the truth itself, which got me to think of Hurt's "I focus on the pain, the only thing that's real."

That is not to say that life is supposed to be all about pain and death either, but it's a harsh reality that all of us must face, and I think that's the nerve Nine Inch Nails seems to constantly strike on his albums. I don't think pain can be outgrown, but of course, there are still more mature and rational ways to deal with it. But even so, there are still levels of suffering and loss that nobody will ever be ready for, no matter what. It's why Hurt really cut through me the first time I listened to it. I also liked the way you summed up Demon Seed and Black Noise by the way, as I've always felt that way about both songs as well, since it can strike at any time. Clarity and solace itself can also be very "fragile" as well. "Watch the white. Turn to red. It fills up the hole, but it grows somewhere else instead." and "Nothing ever grows and the sun doesn't shine all day." came to mind whenever I thought about this as well.

I'm also convinced that it's probably because discussing mental health issues is generally a taboo in most cases. I also wish that I realized it sooner, but if it's not necessarily a controversial and depressing topic, it can also lead to all sorts of arguments and ridicule as well, even if you're trying your best and it doesn't even matter if you're being absolutely sincere while making absolutely no excuses. It also doesn't help that we're sometimes forced to pretend to be happy, enthusiastic and positive in certain situations due to stigma attached to any sort of negativity in general, so I can actually accept why Trent's lyrics get criticized for those very reasons, aside from repeating certain lyrics over the decades, since those sort of topics are expected to be privately solved and just kept to ourselves.

As The Day The World Went Away goes "The plastic face forced to portray.", The Collector's "I am a good boy and will swallow it all. Swallow it all. Swallow it all." and Every Day Is Exactly The Same's "Sometimes I think I'm happy here. Sometimes, yet I still pretend."

It sort of helped me understand why Trent Reznor admitted that it felt like he put his soul out on display for everybody to tear it to shreds. I can't seem to find it now, but he actually said something along the lines of, and I'm merely paraphrasing here: "Here's my soul being bare to the public. Have at it. Tear it to shreds." I think he said that when he put out Pretty Hate Machine. He also seemed to admit that it was "embarrassing shit" as well. This is probably the closest thing I could find on it. So it would seem that he was aware that there was a chance that his lyrics would be perceived/deemed to be "embarrassing shit" from the start.

Trent Reznor: I didn't really find my own voice until I realized I'd been keeping a journal of embarrassing shit. It was filled with things that I felt like I had to get out of my head because I felt like I was losing my mind. Lots of angry feelings. I started to realize that a lot of that writing could work as lyrics. I wondered what would happen if I matched them up with music.

Source: http://www.vice.com/read/nine-inch-nails-trent-reznor-on-making-it-out-of-the-midwest-456

I also wouldn't put him still using personal journals as inspiration/ideas for lyrics past him either, since these types of thoughts of emotions can be carried on and/or followed for decades, and as a result, I can see why that would provide a wealth of song writing. I suppose I'm also used to his lyrics, so I was never really disappointed in them either. And even with marriage and having children, living happily ever after is just far from the truth in most cases after that, as awesome as that would be. There will always be a lot of things to wrestle, sort out and work out.

And to somehow get back on topic, Hesitation Marks seemed to be about surviving it all, but still reliving some of it from time to time mentally and emotionally since some wounds never fully heal, considering the name of the album itself and songs like Came Back Haunted and Find My Way. I went on a lot longer than I thought I would again, but it always struck a nerve with me. I'm also fully aware and accept that it's not for everybody and also understand how and why some fans would sometimes tire of those topics too, so I still didn't forget to consider those factors either. If it's not for you in the long run, then that's that. It always seemed like one of those things to me anyway.

[Dr Channard]

...what's bothering me personally with NIN is not the fact that the lyrics concern those topics. It's more in the way they're adressed. It often comes off as superficial and full of cliches. And as someone who knows his NIN you've heard them a million times before.

Yup. Love it or hate it, that’s our Trent. But hey, to my knowledge he has never put on any pretense about his lyrics. He doesn’t go around billing himself as some kind of modern William Shakespeare, *ahem* William Corgan. And what Trent may lack in lyrical genius, he makes up for with emotional intensity of delivery. As a random example, have you heard the man deliver the lyrics,


Me and my fucking gun

Me and my fucking gun

Me and my fucking gun

Well, if you haven’t heard it, let’s just say that he sings the hell out of it. It is a real treat. Of course the emotion in the delivery of HM is of a different sort and intensity, but it is still there.

I think in his interview with RS he said that the album (HM) was supposed to feel “sparse and minimal.” Could that creative approach have extended to the lyrics as well as the music? The music was as much of a polished and smooth ride as we’ve ever gotten from nin, the accompanying lyrics didn’t hit me as being all that out of place.

[BenAkenobi]

... Of course the emotion in the delivery of HM is of a different sort and intensity, but it is still there...

I like how you guys tend to... diplomatic ways of describing this album :D

[BRoswell]

I like how you guys tend to... diplomatic ways of describing this album :D

As opposed to, what, complaining about it? Personally, all of the complaints I've seen are kind of ridiculous, and a lot of them have come from people who weren't going to like the album anyway, so who cares? I have a couple issues of my own (a lack of real drums, Everything and Satellite showing off their "made for Greatest Hits album" feel a bit), but I'm not going to post page after page of complaints. I'd rather talk about what works than what doesn't.

[nineinchnerd]

HM and TDS are my two favorite NIN albums. They're pretty much life bookends.

[BenAkenobi]

As opposed to, what, complaining about it?

I'm not sure if this is a complaint, but it just seems funny to me, because...


I'm merely paraphrasing here: "Here's my soul being bare to the public. Have at it. Tear it to shreds."

that's my reaction: "here Trent, shred me, tear my bare soul" but instead of kicking my ass senseless all he did was a relaxing massage and a free taxi ride home :D

[BRoswell]

that's my reaction: "here Trent, shred me, tear my bare soul"

What is this, 1992?

[BenAkenobi]

No, it's not 1992, i was too young then. But i have examples of 2002, 2005, 2007 and 2008 all genuinely kicking ass like there's no tomorrow :D

[Dr Channard]

that's my reaction: "here Trent, shred me, tear my bare soul" but instead of kicking my ass senseless all he did was a relaxing massage …
　
Well, in the last 10 to 15 seconds of the album the smooth electronics fell away as the roar of some horrendous machine finally came grinding up to the surface. So ...was that at least like a happy ending?:confused:

[CRIMinal]

From Russell Mills' newsletter in regards to Hesitation Marks:

Cargo In The Blood | The Reverse Is Also True


The limited edition multiple focusing on the art works made for Nine Inch Nails’ Hesitation Marks album is currently in production. The multiple, which will be produced in a limited edition will include a five colour 320 page fully illustrated hardback book showing all the works made for the commission with interpretative texts and essays charting the ideas behind and processes used in each work. Each will also contain an original mixed media work framed in Corten steel and a uniquely coded etched Corten Steel plate. Every copy will be encased in a folding and individually cauterised suede portfolio. Edition number, price and publication date tbc

[Shnoorum]

Completely side tracking all the The Fragile hype with this post but I just discovered the 3 demos from Hesitation Marks. I had no idea of their existance up 'till now. They are incredibly good. Kinda makes me sad that they won't ever be finished. Currently listening to the demo version of All Time Low which I also never knew existed. Anyone else getting serious Hotline Miami vibes from demo 3?

Mostly posting this for the other poor buggers who missed these but also to see if there are any other delicious secrets that I may have missed?

[nineinchnerd]

Wow, some of the reviews here on Amazon are freakin' hilarious! Read at your own risk:

http://www.amazon.com/Hesitation-Marks-Deluxe-Edition-Nails/product-reviews/B00D8HNR2K/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_37?sortBy=helpful&reviewerType=all_reviews&formatType=all_formats&filterByStar=all_stars&pageNumber=37

[sheepdean]

Wow, some of the reviews here on Amazon are freakin' hilarious! Read at your own risk:

http://www.amazon.com/Hesitation-Marks-Deluxe-Edition-Nails/product-reviews/B00D8HNR2K/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_37?sortBy=helpful&reviewerType=all_reviews&formatType=all_formats&filterByStar=all_stars&pageNumber=37
Nothing compares to how P4K reviewed The Fragile http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5799-the-fragile/

[Dr Channard]

Wow, some of the reviews here on Amazon are freakin' hilarious! Read at your own risk:

http://www.amazon.com/Hesitation-Marks-Deluxe-Edition-Nails/product-reviews/B00D8HNR2K/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_37?sortBy=helpful&reviewerType=all_reviews&formatType=all_formats&filterByStar=all_stars&pageNumber=37

Yeah funny, out of the 370 customer reviews HM is averaging a sturdy 4.1 out of 5 stars. Not bad.

http://i57.tinypic.com/rqzvjk.jpg

I’d like to see any of these people bitching about the album try to do any better.

[nineinchnerd]

The titles to some of the reviews are priceless:


'Hesitate For the Electro-Jazzy Jam Lullaby Party (http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R34IIIT11511Y5/ref=cm_cr_pr_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00D8HNR2K)'

'I didn't know Trent was in Daft Punk ... (http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2K8293SWBJGXU/ref=cm_cr_pr_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00D8HNR2K)'

'No Effort, Too much Hesitation (http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RFARPPOMFEZUQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00D8HNR2K)'

'Step away from the blips, bleeps, and loops. It's been old since Year Zero. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R25FS83EN8XTN/ref=cm_cr_pr_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00D8HNR2K)'

'The worst thing trent reznor has ever done (http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3QIM2KKLNR9M0/ref=cm_cr_pr_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00D8HNR2K)'

The majority of these people bash the album for it not being more like what came in the past. Which is baffling to me. Why would they pay for more of the same???????

[BenAkenobi]

I’d like to see any of these people bitching about the album try to do any better.

Wait, do you mean you'd like anyone not impressed by a work of famous artist to produce their own work of art? that's not how it works.

[Krazy]

Any "non shitty" album or TM review gets around 4 stars. Go look around ticketmaster or iTunes, it's all redundant, so whether you like the music/artist or not its a moot point.

Theres a a lot of fans that don't care for HM (myself included), life goes on. To be honest though I'd rather have it than not have it.

[Dr Channard]

Wait, do you mean you'd like anyone not impressed by a work of famous artist to produce their own work of art? that's not how it works.

No, not quite…


Wait, do you mean you'd like anyone not impressed by *[bitching about] a work of famous artist *[HM] to produce their own work of art *[do any better]?

*Fixed.

[BenAkenobi]

There's a thin line to be occasionally crossed, though, don't you think?
For example, me saying things like "the eater of dreams" track was so promising, but it ends too soon, it's not fulfilling.
Same with closing track "black noise", it feels like teasing and cutting the album short. Surely could be expanded.
I mean, there weren't specific time limits, such as having to match sides on cassette tape, there's more than ten extra minutes left on CD.
The team could do wonders just with the intro/outro!
This is my bitching, sorry if anyone's offended.

[Dr Channard]

There's a thin line to be occasionally crossed, though, don't you think?
For example, me saying things like "the eater of dreams" track was so promising, but it ends too soon, it's not fulfilling.
Same with closing track "black noise", it feels like teasing and cutting the album short. Surely could be expanded.
I mean, there weren't specific time limits, such as having to match sides on cassette tape, there's more than ten extra minutes left on CD.
The team could do wonders just with the intro/outro!
This is my bitching, sorry if anyone's offended.

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to come across like an ass. Nothing against you or your thoughts about the album. I was refering to the HM bitching in that amazon link nineinchnerd posted. Bitching like, “stop making this CRAP and come to your senses!” or, “this thing is a a true turd without water.”

There is a difference between that kind of pointless bitching and just saying, “I listened to the album and I wasn’t impressed.”

Personally HM isn’t a favorite of mine either. And I may agree with some of the things you pointed out about it. I think the album hit some high notes, but a number of the tracks just weren’t for me.

There is nothing wrong with not liking the album, and sharing thoughts about it. Still, I don’t think that validates the overt disrespecting or bashing of Trent and the album that we see in that link.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

Did anyone ever poke fun at this Ozric Tentacles song here? I thought Born To Be Alive by Patrick Hernandez was kind of funny because of it's slight resemblance to Copy of A, but this freaken song below here makes me question where Trent got his ideas in the first place lol.

I mean, listen to how the bass synth around the time signature when the drums come in haha wtf.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nibzO78U7oU

[katara]

this freaken song below here makes me question where Trent got his ideas in the first place lol.
It's called an arpeggiator. Honestly, it reminds me more of retro videogames than anything else, which used arpeggios (split chords) to make up for the technical limitations of the hardware (which didn't support chords).

[Khrz]

It's called an arpeggiator. Honestly, it reminds me more of retro videogames than anything else, which used arpeggios (split chords) to make up for the technical limitations of the hardware (which didn't support chords).

Yeah if anything, in the context of CoA, it feels like a better comparison.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7A3xpCStfs

But, it's just an arpeggio. Given Reznor's musical background, it's not surprising that he would use it, and I don't really think it's a nod to anything in particular, other than "How do I conclude that song... Hey, I've never done arpeggi..."

[eversonpoe]

Did anyone ever poke fun at this Ozric Tentacles song here? I thought Born To Be Alive by Patrick Hernandez was kind of funny because of it's slight resemblance to Copy of A, but this freaken song below here makes me question where Trent got his ideas in the first place lol.

I mean, listen to how the bass synth around the time signature when the drums come in haha wtf.

also, this riff resolves into an even 4/4 eventually, whereas the arpeggio in copy of a stays "off" consistently.

[snaapz]

I know my opinion is my own and doesn't mean a thing, but HM is the one album I never listen to, I haven't accepted it yet... I don't really get excited. I don't like it other than the first few songs.

I'm gonna give it another go right now while I work.

[Microwave Jellyfish]

You should listen to it after work, with a cold drink in your hand. Best possible circumstances to make friends with any record.

[BRoswell]

Yeah, never listen to a full album at work, especially a NIN album.

[Dr Channard]

Well, that may depend on what your job is. If you’re at the office making copies of the report for the big meeting, Copy of A may be called for. If you’re a pizza delivery person struggling to find the right house, racing against the “free pizza” delivery deadline clock, then perhaps Find My Way or Running might be appropriate. If your career path has lead you to the gainful employment of whoring your body on the cruel streets to unsavory individuals for 5 bucks a pop, maybe All Time Low should be spinning.

[theimage13]

Yeah, never listen to a full album at work, especially a NIN album.

Recording engineers, please disregard this advice.

[m15a]

Well, that may depend on what your job is. If you’re at the office making copies of the report for the big meeting, Copy of A may be called for. If you’re a pizza delivery person struggling to find the right house, racing against the “free pizza” delivery deadline clock, then perhaps Find My Way or Running might be appropriate. If your career path has lead you to the gainful employment of whoring your body on the cruel streets to unsavory individuals for 5 bucks a pop, maybe All Time Low should be spinning.
That's not listening to the album. That's listening to separate tracks.

. . . In b4 sheepdean. [emoji14]

[wight rabbit]

Yeah if anything, in the context of CoA, it feels like a better comparison.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7A3xpCStfs

But, it's just an arpeggio. Given Reznor's musical background, it's not surprising that he would use it, and I don't really think it's a nod to anything in particular, other than "How do I conclude that song... Hey, I've never done arpeggi..."

That reminds me more of the arpeggio during the "stretch across the sky" part of "All Time Low" than of "Copy of a."

[placepinion]

The lyrics in 'Copy of A':
Always my intention my intention your attention
Just doing everything you tell me to

Is the YOUR and YOU referring to his fans? I've always wondered about this.

[sheepdean]

The lyrics in 'Copy of A':
Always my intention my intention your attention
Just doing everything you tell me to


Is the YOUR and YOU referring to his fans? I've always wondered about this.
imo the whole song is about fans and critics, but he rarely discusses meaning

[BenAkenobi]

imo the whole song is about fans and critics

if this is so, I think that's the major downfall, when fans and critics all praise the song about them it's a sign of something went terribly wrong.

[wight rabbit]

Not necessarily. The ones that can understand that and appreciate it for that meaning are likely the ones that aren't constantly judging him for what he releases and just enjoy whatever he ends up putting out. Not necessarily in a fanboy/girl sense, but in an open-minded sense... or something like that.

[m15a]

People can change their perspectives, too. No reason a fan can't be more judgmental or close-minded at one point and then later on become more open. I think most fans go through that to some extent, thinking, "I hope this is like my favorite old album" when a new album comes out and then later looking at the album as its own thing (whether they like the new album or not).

[Dr Channard]

The lyrics in 'Copy of A':
Always my intention my intention your attention
Just doing everything you tell me to


Is the YOUR and YOU referring to his fans? I've always wondered about this.

I think that like many nin songs it’s a jab at those damn metaphoric conquistadores who took their share.

[Khrz]

You had to pick the one cover...

[EndlessLoveless]

That still made my day, TR written or not.

[Dr Channard]

You had to pick the one cover...


Well, for me it’s like Admiral Paul Revere said following his victory in the battle of Arnhem against the invading templar knights during the war of 1812. He said, “Facts are facts, and I don’t know ‘em.” http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/images/icons/icon6.png

[Halo Infinity]

Happy Hesitation Marks day. :)

Now it's a complete two years. I also remember buying two copies of it, as I gave the other one to a very close friend as a belated birthday present.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Llc4Ciu0k

[snaapz]

'All Time Low' has finally clicked with me (I'm, slow sometimes).

I've listened to this track many times before, but today I got a bit deeper. I listened while reading the lyrics; coupled with good headphones and maybe in a bit of a mood myself.

I like the different voices used; to emulate "the passengers" and "whispers in his ears" etc... whoever said HM is a happy album?

[snaapz]

After all these years I think this hat theory I scribbled helps me understand NIN.

Is TR dealing with multiple personalities; or unsure on what hat he is supposed to wear today; or unsure on what hat is his; or unable to keep certain hats off of his head; and often doesn't want people to see his hats?

Wearing hats as an idiom, of course. Could use mask as well.

Quite the struggle, he has.

[Dr Channard]

After all these years I think this hat theory I scribbled helps me understand NIN.

Is TR dealing with multiple personalities; or unsure on what hat he is supposed to wear today; or unsure on what hat is his; or unable to keep certain hats off of his head; and often doesn't want people to see his hats?

I think for the making of HM Trent had on his Swedish Chef hat.

Now I want to know what the nin album sounds like that came from Trent wearing his Kaiser Wilhelm II hat.

[hani]

I think for the making of HM Trent had on his Swedish Chef hat.

that made me laugh a lot harder than it probably should

[Lew]

After all these years I think this hat theory I scribbled helps me understand NIN.

Is TR dealing with multiple personalities; or unsure on what hat he is supposed to wear today; or unsure on what hat is his; or unable to keep certain hats off of his head; and often doesn't want people to see his hats?

Wearing hats as an idiom, of course. Could use mask as well.

Quite the struggle, he has.

i reckon he was wearing his anima hat, frequently, with hesitation marks.

[Lew]

The lyrics in 'Copy of A':
Always my intention my intention your attention
Just doing everything you tell me to


Is the YOUR and YOU referring to his fans? I've always wondered about this.

i thought this was a shout out to his dominatrix??? lol ;p

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Ermahgerd Hesitation Marks just seems to get better with time! Was listening to it again on vinyl last evening and shit is bangin' from beginning to end :eek:

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I mean, except for 'Everything'

Still not sure what he was thinking with that one :(

[BRoswell]

I'd take Everything over a few tracks that people have deemed "classics". :p

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I'd take Everything over a few tracks that people have deemed "classics". :p

Do tell..

_______________

[BRoswell]

Do tell..

"Classics" I would take Everything over:
Down In It
Suck
Ruiner
The Line Begins To Blur
Survivalism

And that's just songs I've seen a lot of people speak highly of. That's not counting songs like Kinda I Want To, which I think is way more embarrassing than anything in Everything. :p

[Prettybrokenspiral]

"Classics" I would take Everything over:
Down In It
Suck
Ruiner
The Line Begins To Blur
Survivalism


Whaaaaaaat? Seriously? :(

[BRoswell]

Whaaaaaaat? Seriously? :(

You asked. I answered.

[BenAkenobi]

"Classics" I would take Everything over:
Down In It
Suck
Ruiner
The Line Begins To Blur
Survivalism

...

Yes, yes, hundred times yes! These are so overrated!

[Ryan]

You asked. I answered.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/89/98/a4/8998a4594394b3991e3461d2b10a02a9.jpg

[billpulsipher]

"Classics" I would take Everything over:
Down In It
Suck
Ruiner
The Line Begins To Blur
Survivalism



you would take 'Everything' over 'Down In It' and 'Ruiner'. LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

you just lost any credibility you had with me......not that you had any in the first place

[BRoswell]

you just lost any credibility you had with me......not that you had any in the first place

So how the fuck would I lose it? :confused:

[Krazy]

I wonder if those that don't care for Down In It and have never listened to it in a good car stereo with good subs would change their mind.

That song fucking bumps (a lot of NIN does, actually). Also it's what got me into NIN at first.

[BRoswell]

I wonder if those that don't care for Down In It and have never listened to it in a good car stereo with good subs would change their mind.

That song fucking bumps (a lot of NIN does, actually). Also it's what got me into NIN at first.

Well, it's not like I hate the song (just like I don't hate the other tracks I listed). I quite like it actually, but I find Trent's white boy rapping more embarrassing than anything in Everything. :p And it's not like I think Everything is Trent's best track (far from it), but apparently you're not allowed to just like a song. You either have to think it's brilliant or it's total shit.

[Vertigo]

Eh, I think that's an unfair assessment of Down In It. It's not like Trent's singing about his 64 Impala, bee-hotch-es or big fat chronic sacks. It's a hip hop rhythm, but the content's still very NIN, and I think he does a good job of it.

[niggo]

I came to love Down In It through this live version. It took me almost 5 years to finally appreciate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkphW38WyYo

[BRoswell]

It's not like Trent's singing about his 64 Impala, bee-hotch-es or big fat chronic sacks.

And rap/hip-hop is not always about those things. ;)

[Krazy]

And rap/hip-hop is not always about those things. ;)

Yeah. There's also straight up gangsta shit and hatin' on the five-0 po-po, yo. And drug slangin'.

Also the correct spelling, I believe, is "bee-YOTCH!!!"

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/3c/d4/2b/3cd42b9d864e89a557fd1401f4cfe544.jpg

[Prettybrokenspiral]

you would take 'Everything' over 'Down In It' and 'Ruiner'. LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

you just lost any credibility you had with me......not that you had any in the first place

+1

To the first sentence. I still love you BRoswell ;)

[Dr Channard]

It's not like Trent's singing about his 64 Impala, bee-hotch-es or big fat chronic sacks.

Yeah. There's also straight up gangsta shit and hatin' on the five-0 po-po, yo. And drug slangin'.

Also the correct spelling, I believe, is "bee-YOTCH!!!"


　
Nah. See here. If Trent had gone rap, it would have been all diss-tracks (aimed at John Malm and Coolio), thug life, set trippin, and swisher sweets.

[m15a]

It's like you all forgot that Trent co-wrote most of a hip-hop album . . and maybe forgot about the last two decades happening. :confused:

[BRoswell]

It's like you all forgot that Trent co-wrote most of a hip-hop album

I haven't, because I love that album. Trent doesn't rap on it though. ;)

[eversonpoe]

　
Nah. See here. If Trent had gone rap, it would have been all diss-tracks (aimed at John Malm and Coolio), thug life, set trippin, and swisher sweets.

what about swiffer sheets?

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I haven't, because I love that album. Trent doesn't rap on it though. ;)

"He's fighting every war at once and he's wiiiiiiinning..."

[snaapz]

After extensive listening, reading along (lyrics), deep thought and absorbing all the techniques, sounds and dynamics I now think this album is top notch and packed with emotion. It's made my rotation.

A+

I think for me I need to experience music and over time I form memories and events, over the last couple years I've listened to the album and songs here and there, now I can look back and reflect at periods when I listen. From the first single to the full album to the radio interview where TR explains 'Everything' and the live concert I dont remember half of... and things that were happening in my life at that time.

[buckaroo]

is there somewhere to get only the demos from the itunes deluxe version in flac?

[botley]

is there somewhere to get only the demos from the itunes deluxe version in flac?

Yes. The "in conversation" track was also sold on HDtracks.

[buckaroo]

Yes. The "in conversation" track was also sold on HDtracks.

thanks. i was hoping to find it somewhere a little cheaper since i already had to buy the full album on iTunes for it originally. is there any place you know of that sells just the individual demos or the "interview" only?

[blassster]

is there somewhere to get only the demos from the itunes deluxe version in flac?
Keep in mind that the hdtracks files are just lossy files re-encoded to lossless, so they're nearly the same. I got them anyway because I'm obsessed and also fuck iTunes.

[buckaroo]

Keep in mind that the hdtracks files are just lossy files re-encoded to lossless, so they're nearly the same. I got them anyway because I'm obsessed and also fuck iTunes.

ok, thanks. i guess really don't need it then. i was just organizing my files and i didn't have that in flac so I wanted to grab it somewhere if it was cheap (so i didn't have to buy a 5th copy of the album). did seed 7 or 8 ever show up anywhere in flac or wav format?

[Bachy]

I feel like I haven't appreciated "I Would For You" enough. I've listened to it a few times the last couple of days. That outro is so fucking beautiful.

[tricil]

All of Side two is just glorious, really.

[joplinpicasso]

All of Side two is just glorious, really.
Yes it is.

And thanks above ^^^ I almost forgot about those HM demo tracks as they're embedded in that long conversation audio.

[Ryan]

I'd love to wake up tomorrow and see a thread that says:

halo twenty nine. [new album title]. 12.25.2015

[sick among the pure]

I'd love to wake up tomorrow and see a thread that says:

halo twenty nine. [new album title]. 12.25.2015


Halo 29 [pony] 12.25.2015

*sigh* I miss those days. Hope we get something through some mysterious channel this year. Seed 0 or something.

[Krazy]

I'd love to wake up tomorrow and see a thread that says:

halo twenty nine. [new album title]. 12.25.2015

I can make make one if you want me to...

<<puts it in calendar>>

[placepinion]

I'd love to wake up tomorrow and see a thread that says:

halo twenty nine. [new album title]. 12.25.2015

That just seems like a dreamworld away at this point.

[simonn]

Same with closing track "black noise", it feels like teasing and cutting the album short. Surely could be expanded.


Personally, I love that build up of momentum and sudden cut on Black Noise. Had goosebumps about the first 20 times I heard it!

[Dr Channard]

Same with closing track "black noise", it feels like teasing and cutting the album short. Surely could be expanded.Personally, I love that build up of momentum and sudden cut on Black Noise. Had goosebumps about the first 20 times I heard it!

If an actual hesitation mark (or wound) is evidence of a suicide gesture that was stopped just short of being a full-blown suicide attempt, then abruptly stopping the (Hesitation Marks) album, at what might be its darkest moments (and the climax of Black Noise by far felt that way to me) could have been a calculated thematic tie-in.

[BenAkenobi]

I think the effect is great - it makes an echo in your brain, where music ended but you continue to feel its pulse for a little while - but still, the entire album is so condensed and compact that things only began getting interesting and bam! - curtains close, lights on :-/

[Ryan]

I'd love to wake up tomorrow and see a thread that says:

halo twenty nine. [new album title]. 12.25.2015

It is official - I'm psychic.

[placepinion]

Cuh-cuh-Cunt-Head!

That's what my she-male cousin thought the opening lyrics to came back haunted were.

[Halo Infinity]

marodi

http://thinkchristian.reframemedia.com/nine-inch-nails-unlikely-light

[Lew]

@marodi (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=125)

http://thinkchristian.reframemedia.com/nine-inch-nails-unlikely-light

with amen-ah...

[Indefinite_Cure]

re-exploring the album after a few months of silence and some moments gave me chills:
-The first chorus of Came Back Haunted (when not overplayed, this song is really amazing)
-The first verse of Find My Way (the mood the instrumental sets is so beautiful)
-The string part of Disappointed (still my favorite live show memory when the 3d cube revolves around the band)
-The "I am free" line in Everything
-The instrumental build-up with the "I know you're up there, somewhere" part of Satellite
-VARIOUS METHODS OF ESCAPE (where to start here?) The high-pitched synths on the right channel, the chorus (!!!), "I think I could lose myself in here", the fucking ending. It also feels like there was a concept here, for the verses, of something bigger that's been broken down (the broken machine concept) which still comes through during the choruses.
-The sucked guitar pads during the choruses of I Would For You and the piano at the end.
-the transition from I Would For You to In Two
-The intro build-up of In Two. Also, this song makes me want to crank up the volume every time it comes up. The second chorus into the "I just don't know anymore" part which is one of the most beautiful musical moments of the album. The build-up at the end!!
-Black Noise

[Ryan]

I think I've listened to Running less than 10 times. Really don't like that song.

[WorzelG]

I think I've listened to Running less than 10 times. Really don't like that song.I agree, only song I skip on the album

[Krazy]

'Everything' gets shit because it was a single- or was intended to be released as one, but Running is easily the shittiest song on HM.

Cool visuals during Tension though.

[simonn]

I agree, only song I skip on the album

I'll fess up too, I skip that most times. CBH probably the only other one I'll even consider skipping...

[WorzelG]

'Everything' gets shit because it was a single- or was intended to be released as one, but Running is easily the shittiest song on HM.

Cool visuals during Tension though.The kind of background vocals where Trent is chanting 'running out' out of breath endlessly, just really annoys me somehow, I can't listen to it

[Halo Infinity]

The kind of background vocals where Trent is chanting 'running out' out of breath endlessly, just really annoys me somehow, I can't listen to it
It's funny that you mention that because I actually caught myself changing the song at that part. It just became a regular habit at some point that it's as if I didn't realize it at all. I also don't mind it that much though, but I tend to skip that part sometimes.

[Ryan]

The kind of background vocals where Trent is chanting 'running out' out of breath endlessly, just really annoys me somehow, I can't listen to it

It sounds like he's working up an orgasm.

[Lew]

i love "everything".
that is all.

[Lew]

It sounds like he's working up an orgasm.

what?? i thought *this* was him working up an orgasm:

https://youtu.be/YexQcXnVSzg

lol.

[Seed_0]

I have learned to tolerate "Everything". I like "Running". I have loved "Copy of A" ever since I first heard it live at Lollapalooza 2013.

[Halo Infinity]

i love "everything".
that is all.
Everything is still one of my most favorite songs from Hesitation Marks, right next to Copy Of A.

[screwdriver]

I have learned to tolerate "Everything". I like "Running". I have loved "Copy of A" ever since I first heard it live at Lollapalooza 2013.

I skip "Everything" every time. It has very little to do with the song and more with the production -- I'm not normally one to mind this stuff, but it just feels brickwalled to a painful degree to listen to.

[Lew]

Everything is still one of my most favorite songs from Hesitation Marks, right next to Copy Of A.
most of my first listens are in my car...so i am trucking along and everything starts...and i howled. i was laughing so hard i almost crashed. eyes popped open, mouth hanging slack "wtf is THIS????"...half way through the song: what. a. sarcastic. bitch. this. man. is. and i am still laughing in delight and awe. by the end of the song i was feeling a wee bit sad...there was this flavour of bravado or almost convincing to the lyrics..like the person is trying to believe this, you know? it didn't de rail the humourous tone. now i see it as somewhat tongue in cheek, but that little touch of sadness remains. this is up there with purest feeling for fave nin songs that are so not nin.
i also cannot get sick of 'copy of a'. i have tried, i am sure my disc is getting annoyed with me...but it sounds as fucking epic on listen number five million as it did for listen number one.
and my 8 year old loves it, too. he was singing it in the car tonight!
oh, and i pointed out that in "eater of dreams" he yells "i ain't going back...i ain't going back' and the kid was so excited! he yells "i can hear it, mom. i hear it". lol. good times in the car.

[Lew]

I skip "Everything" every time. It has very little to do with the song and more with the production -- I'm not normally one to mind this stuff, but it just feels brickwalled to a painful degree to listen to.

what do you mean by "brickwalled" in terms of the sound? i don't understand the term. thank you...

[screwdriver]

what do you mean by "brickwalled" in terms of the sound? i don't understand the term. thank you...

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/

again, I normally think the whole loudness war thing is a bunch of bullshit; in this particular case, I think they deliberately pushed the song to be uncomfortable

[Lew]

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/

again, I normally think the whole loudness war thing is a bunch of bullshit; in this particular case, I think they deliberately pushed the song to be uncomfortable

:) thank you very much! that was neat. and i am inclined to agree with you on the deliberate use in the song.

[Seed_0]

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/

again, I normally think the whole loudness war thing is a bunch of bullshit; in this particular case, I think they deliberately pushed the song to be uncomfortable

Who is they? What is uncomfortable about the song (Other than Trent's singing)? Musically it kind of reminds me of the With Teeth era in some ways.

[screwdriver]

Who is they? What is uncomfortable about the song (Other than Trent's singing)? Musically it kind of reminds me of the With Teeth era in some ways.

musically its fine

I just find the actual aural recording to be very harsh. could just be me.

[SchwarzerAbt]

musically its fine

I just find the actual aural recording to be very harsh. could just be me.

No, I also find it almost painful. And it' super annoying on a mixtape I made with other music, because it's so much louder than the previous songs.

[sheepdean]

No, I also find it almost painful. And it' super annoying on a mixtape I made with other music, because it's so much louder than the previous songs.
It's not made to be on a mixtape, it's made to be on the album

[SchwarzerAbt]

It's not made to be on a mixtape, it's made to be on the album

Yes, that's true. It' my fault to put it there. :-D

Still, loudness/brickwalling is real and this to me the NIN song where it is most obvious.

[screwdriver]

Still, loudness/brickwalling is real and this to me the NIN song where it is most obvious.

it's obvious to me that it was stylistic and purposeful. just not to my taste. life goes on. normally I don't give a shit. I like Death Magnetic. Just for whatever reason, it's painful to listen to here.

[Frozen Beach]

I think the Audiophile version is more tolerable to listen to even though it's still brickwalled. It's the eqing that helps. And the painfully obvious clipping on Everything on that version isn't so obvious anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb2-F86RW9E

[Seed_0]

I think the Audiophile version is more tolerable to listen to even though it's still brickwalled. It's the eqing that helps. And the painfully obvious clipping on Everything on that version isn't so obvious anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb2-F86RW9E

I seen that when it came out.
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=131105313941874&set=a.131105337275205.1073741829.100011272174448&type=3&theater

[eversonpoe]

It's not made to be on a mixtape, it's made to be on the album


Yes, that's true. It' my fault to put it there. :-D

Still, loudness/brickwalling is real and this to me the NIN song where it is most obvious.

that's why i always loved making actual mixTAPES. i have a yamaha cassette deck that allows you to set the record level, so i would level-match things before i dubbed them onto the tape, thus ensuring a smooth listen.

i guess i've never had hesitation marks up loud enough to be bothered by the excessive compression in "everything", but maybe i've just grown cynical after years of loudness wars bullshit.

[cashpiles (closed)]

I think the Audiophile version is more tolerable to listen to even though it's still brickwalled. It's the eqing that helps. And the painfully obvious clipping on Everything on that version isn't so obvious anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb2-F86RW9E

just absolutely destroys music... wish this practice would stop. I wish radio stations and streaming services would have their own compensatory technologies to jack up all the sounds if they want to. Let people who buy it or stream choose whether to listen to the compressed version or not. I know this will not happen. I just hope that artists realize what shit this causes to their music.

[Frozen Beach]

just absolutely destroys music... wish this practice would stop. I wish radio stations and streaming services would have their own compensatory technologies to jack up all the sounds if they want to. Let people who buy it or stream choose whether to listen to the compressed version or not. I know this will not happen. I just hope that artists realize what shit this causes to their music.
The guy who did the video does make a point though that we have no idea how loud the album was recorded. And I'll be honest and say that I really don't care if an artist like Trent Reznor, whose music is usually loud and abrasive, has digital compression on his music. I don't think I ever want to hear a dynamic version of The Downward Spiral, Year Zero or Broken. And I think Trent might be more aware of the mastering of his music than most artists. With most artists, the quiet sections of their songs would be brickwalled along with the loud parts. With Trent's music, the quiet parts are never brickwalled. Only the loud parts.

I will say though, I'm not always okay with compression. Iggy Pop's remix of Raw Power is too far. At least the vinyl sounds nice.

[screwdriver]

that's why i always loved making actual mixTAPES. i have a yamaha cassette deck that allows you to set the record level, so i would level-match things before i dubbed them onto the tape, thus ensuring a smooth listen.

i guess i've never had hesitation marks up loud enough to be bothered by the excessive compression in "everything", but maybe i've just grown cynical after years of loudness wars bullshit.

I think the "loudness war" is largely overhyped fluff to sell magazines and give bloggers something to complain about. there's legitimate points but I think it's lost on most listeners.

I feel I've undone my own point here. I have no reference if the MASTERING on Everything is excessive. I think the song itself was composed using hyper compressed instrumentation and it sounds painful to me.

[Seed_0]

I think the "loudness war" is largely overhyped fluff to sell magazines and give bloggers something to complain about. there's legitimate points but I think it's lost on most listeners.

I feel I've undone my own point here. I have no reference if the MASTERING on Everything is excessive. I think the song itself was composed using hyper compressed instrumentation and it sounds painful to me.

I think people are just confusing thierselves. NIN songs are made from many tracks. If you were to amp each of those tracks to an equal level you would have a mess. The frequency range difference between the tracks plays a huge role in a NIN song. Why Trent would even make a audiophile mastered version really doesn't make much since, and that is why there is very little difference between the two.

[Jon]

Take from this what you will, but here's the entries from the Dynamic Range Database (http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=nine+inch+nails&album=hesitation+marks). The entries with the "i" icon next to them have values for each track. These are just rough estimates, as the numbers are taken from compressed tracks.

[Seed_0]

Take from this what you will, but here's the entries from the Dynamic Range Database (http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=nine+inch+nails&album=hesitation+marks). The entries with the "i" icon next to them have values for each track. These are just rough estimates, as the numbers are taken from compressed tracks.

According to that PHM is the only album with good DR.

[eversonpoe]

According to that PHM is the only album with good DR.

right, because it was originally mastered in 1989, before things started to get too bad.

[emptydesk]

is nin really the type of music you want to have classical music-type "audiophile" dynamics? it's a wall of sound. i wouldn't want the original motown singles to sound any other way than those hot mono mixes.

[Seed_0]

is nin really the type of music you want to have classical music-type "audiophile" dynamics? it's a wall of sound. i wouldn't want the original motown singles to sound any other way than those hot mono mixes.

A good DR just means a great frequency peaks in the multi-tracks of the audio without clipping. Apparently the digital elements being used in the music are lacking in DR. Has anybody tested the DR of the NIN multi-tracks?

[screwdriver]

right, because it was originally mastered in 1989, before things started to get too bad.

dude, my favorite records have been made since 1989. things aren't "bad." some things sound good, some things don't.
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/loudness.htm

[emptydesk]

A good DR just means a great frequency peaks in the multi-tracks of the audio without clipping. Apparently the digital elements being used in the music are lacking in DR. Has anybody tested the DR of the NIN multi-tracks?

dynamic range is the difference between the quietest and loudest signal. you could have a song with a dr of 1db and it could never clip, or a 10dr and clipping at every loud part.

[Seed_0]

dynamic range is the difference between the quietest and loudest signal. you could have a song with a dr of 1db and it could never clip, or a 10dr and clipping at every loud part.

Yes, I understand the that clipping is not part of the DR. I am talking about the quality. Ideally you do not want the clipping, and the mastering of songs has become more interested in amping the frequency resulting in more clipping and less DR.

[BenAkenobi]

tracklist for next nin album

1 getting noisier
2 i'm distorted
3 brickwalling myself
4 loudness is a warzone
5 push it to the limit
6 skin of your eardrum
7 graphic presentation
8 meters in the red
9 levels of pain
10 bridge (quiet)
11 waveformation
12 ping clip
13 zero crossings
14 equal eyes
15 minus 32767