halo twenty eight. hesitation marks. 09.03.2013

[SchwarzerAbt]

5 push it to the limit

A cover of the Scarface song? Awesome! :-D

[eversonpoe]

dude, my favorite records have been made since 1989. things aren't "bad." some things sound good, some things don't.
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/loudness.htm

sorry, i was being REALLY sarcastic haha. i often forget that it doesn't come through in text posts on the internet. i just thought seed_0's "revelation" that PHM was the only album with a good DR was a funny statement.

[implanted_microchip]

tracklist for next nin album

1 getting noisier
2 i'm distorted
3 brickwalling myself
4 loudness is a warzone
5 push it to the limit
6 skin of your eardrum
7 graphic presentation
8 meters in the red
9 levels of pain
10 bridge (quiet)
11 waveformation
12 ping clip
13 zero crossings
14 equal eyes
15 minus 32767

2/10 needs more Apple references

[Seed_0]

sorry, i was being REALLY sarcastic haha. i often forget that it doesn't come through in text posts on the internet. i just thought seed_0's "revelation" that PHM was the only album with a good DR was a funny statement.

It was not a revelation. The point being was that NIN songs have not relied on having a vast DR.

[m15a]

Yes, I understand the that clipping is not part of the DR. I am talking about the quality. Ideally you do not want the clipping, and the mastering of songs has become more interested in amping the frequency resulting in more clipping and less DR.

What do you mean by "amping the frequency"? (I don't have an opinion to add to the thread. Just trying to follow the discussion.)

EDIT: Random geek thought. Just realized that every time I see "DR", I think "damage reduction" and have to internally correct myself.

[BenAkenobi]

2/10 needs more Apple references

Manson already wrote Apple of Sodom, sorry!

[Ryan]

skin of your eardrum, haha

[Seed_0]

What do you mean by "amping the frequency"? (I don't have an opinion to add to the thread. Just trying to follow the discussion.)

EDIT: Random geek thought. Just realized that every time I see "DR", I think "damage reduction" and have to internally correct myself.

Watch the video on post #7004

[m15a]

Watch the video on post #7004

I just got around to re-wartching that video. I didn't hear the phrase "amping the frequency", can you point to it or just tell me what you mean? I'm guessing you're just talking about limiting or compression (or filtering?), but I wanted to check if there was some mixing/mastering concept or terminology I am not familiar with. Thanks.

[Seed_0]

I just got around to re-wartching that video. I didn't hear the phrase "amping the frequency", can you point to it or just tell me what you mean? I'm guessing you're just talking about limiting or compression (or filtering?), but I wanted to check if there was some mixing/mastering concept or terminology I am not familiar with. Thanks.

You lost me. You don't understand amplification?

[seasonsinthesky]

I just got around to re-wartching that video. I didn't hear the phrase "amping the frequency", can you point to it or just tell me what you mean? I'm guessing you're just talking about limiting or compression (or filtering?), but I wanted to check if there was some mixing/mastering concept or terminology I am not familiar with. Thanks.

You're not missing anything. Seed_0 has a very inaccurate way of typing about these matters. Reading all his posts about the DR issue, it becomes quite clear there are many jumbled terms and not a lot of understanding happening in there.

[m15a]

You lost me. You don't understand amplification?
Uh, don't worry about it. I think I get what you meant.

[Seed_0]

You're not missing anything. Seed_0 has a very inaccurate way of typing about these matters. Reading all his posts about the DR issue, it becomes quite clear there are many jumbled terms and not a lot of understanding happening in there.

Once again for those that fail to understand. Just about all of NIN's releases have not had an over all great DR. While DR can be considered an aspect of quality, it has not hindered the popularity of NIN's songs. A great DR was not required to find enjoyment in them. I feel that any unwanted distortion caused by clipping is much worse than a lack of high DR. Columbia is more than likely responsible for the squashed HM. If you look at Ghosts and TS they were not as bad as that.

[Halo Infinity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lim5p5v1tc

[HWB]

Came here just to say that I adore this album, I've bought it several times without any regrets, each listen is a journey, love it to pieces, after all those years it held up really amazingly and I love every track this album has to offer, I love its connections to The Downward Spiral, it can be easily be listened to as a sequel to it (I wrote analysis looking at it from that point of view not so long time ago). It's just an amazing experience and it was very different take on NIN.

[sick among the pure]

Re-listening through Hesitation Marks for the first time after letting it sit for a while, using headphones. Picking up on a lot of sounds I never caught before, and really enjoying everything more than I had before.
Honestly, I have never listened to ANYTHING that Trent has done and not grown to enjoy it more and more years later. As much as there have been songs that were "love at first listen", everything he puts out grows on me with time.

All in all, I think this album gets more hate than it should. I think too many people go straight to comparing albums instead of just liking them for what they are. Nothing will ever live up to what NIN fans feel about The Downward Spiral or The Fragile. But we shouldn't let that keep us from loving what is a really god damn good album.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I'm telling you guys, Hez Marks is the best Massive Attack album since Mezzanine..

[Shadaloo]

For a fair few months after it was released I was calling this my third favorite album right under TDS and TF.

Opinions change. I don't hate it, but I'd say I don't think quite as highly of it as I once did - it's somewhere in the lower middle for me now. Live drums could have helped a ton. NTAE is several orders of magnitude better.

[henryeatscereal]

I'm telling you guys, Hez Marks is the best Massive Attack album since Mezzanine..
Funny, i said the same thing about "Welcome Oblivion" by HTDA

[ultimatebdp]

I like the album, but I don't think a lot of the songs translated well live...especially in big outdoor arenas. Weird to say, but it's a pretty "quiet" album...much like "Welcome Oblivion." With headphones, they sound really cool. In the car or at a show...they lose details.

Hearing NTAE for the first time made me VERY happy he was shifting out of that phase!!

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Hez Marks will always have a special place in my heart; I was in a dark place at the time of its release and it saved me by helping to give what was happening a sort of clarity. Music is amazing like that..

I love how the songs are built from simple, sparse foundations and then continue to build and evolve. Sometimes in subtle ways (While I'm Still Here, Disappointed, Find My Way), and sometimes in different ways from how they began (All Time Low, Copy of A, VMOE). Overall, I think it's his most varied and abstract album. Nothing else in his discography changes things up as much as Hez Marks does over the course of its run time, which is pretty amazing considering how simplistic a lot of the songs appear on the surface.

It definitely rewards repeat listening and I'm still finding new things in it each time it's played. It isn't nearly as aggressive or confrontational as his other records, yet it's constantly shifting between light and dark textures. A lot of people thumbed their nose at it when it came out, and said the gospel singers were out of place in the live shows, but I thought the songs translated well in a live setting and I was comfortable with the direction he was taking for that album..

[PhoenixML]

So after... 4 years? Has it been that long? Shit..

Well I haven't really listen to it over the years. I think it's good, it's just not something I came back to. Not like NTAE. Came Back Haunted is still my favorite NIN song though.

[Vertigo]

Just really wish the multitracks were out there, so I can edit the percussion. It spoils the album for me, particularly on All Time Low and Satellite - painfully overbearing and drearily unchanging.

Year Zero would have taken a similar listen-every-six-months position, but having been allowed to tinker with it, it's become one of my very favourite albums. Hesitation Marks could, too, if it had the same editability - there's so much incredible work in there.

[niggo]

Year Zero would have taken a similar listen-every-six-months position, but having been allowed to tinker with it, it's become one of my very favourite albums.

That's very interesting, actually. What did you do exactly? Any chance to listen to your version?

[piggy]

Hez Marks will always have a special place in my heart; I was in a dark place at the time of its release and it saved me by helping to give what was happening a sort of clarity. Music is amazing like that.
Sort of the same thing happened for me. I was going through a breakdown when it came out and while I didn't necessarily look for parallels to my life at the time, just the fact that there was a new NIN album really lifted me up.

[acrid avid jam shred]

I really love HM. I had just become an avid NIN fan around the time that it was announced, and I loved it instantly on first listen when it was released, so it was a super exciting period, having a brand new record from Trent to listen to! There's not a weak song on it, and I love how there's heavy catharsis mixed with nuanced electronic elements, especially in the second half of the album. Songs like All Time Low and Satellite are brilliant in the way that they combine slinky, synthetic funk with a sense of eeriness and unease, and I Would For You is an epic, awesomely emotional classic. That outro is one of my top NIN moments for sure. Hesitation Marks just contains heaps of fantastic songwriting, and something new to unearth every time you listen to it.

[Jordan]

I'm looking for a FLAC Audiophile Mastered Version of Hesitation Marks. Any help would be much appreciated.

[_T_B_W_]

I'm looking for a FLAC Audiophile Mastered Version of Hesitation Marks. Any help would be much appreciated.

On the same boat here.

[Jon]

I'm looking for a FLAC Audiophile Mastered Version of Hesitation Marks. Any help would be much appreciated.

I hope this is okay since there's not a direct link...

If you're familiar with the typical layout of websites, you can sign up for an account at rutracker.org (it's in Russian). Translating to English obviously helps, but is not 100% accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/VBtsHPP.png

[Jordan]

I hope this is okay since there's not a direct link...

If you're familiar with the typical layout of websites, you can sign up for an account at rutracker.org (it's in Russian). Translating to English obviously helps, but is not 100% accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/VBtsHPP.png

Yea, I'm unable to track that down. Thank you though.
I have the Audiophile Mastered Version on MP3. I'm surprised it's so hard to find FLAC files. Being that it was mastered for "Audiophiles" who generally hate MP3's, you'd think FLAC or WAV or ALAC would be the standard format it was distributed in.

[tony.parente]

4 years later and this record is still horrible. I’m thankful the EPs more than made up for it.

[botley]

^ no u

Yea, I'm unable to track that down. Thank you though.
I have the Audiophile Mastered Version on MP3. I'm surprised it's so hard to find FLAC files. Being that it was mastered for "Audiophiles" who generally hate MP3's, you'd think FLAC or WAV or ALAC would be the standard format it was distributed in.
They were. You literally had your choice between all of those.

[Jordan]

^ no u

They were. You literally had your choice between all of those.

So do you know where I can get them now?

[botley]

So do you know where I can get them now?
On the aforementioned tracker, or private ones. Not going to directly link here as it's against the rules.

[sonic_discord]

4 years later and this record is still horrible. I’m thankful the EPs more than made up for it.
No album that contains songs like "All Time Low," "Satellite," "I Would for You," "In Two," and (my personal favorite) "Various Methods of Escape" should be called "horrible," but yeah, taken as a whole, the EPs are on a whole other level and we don't even have the third one yet. I wish NIN would make more than one music video per album these day too, because I never liked the Came Back Haunted music video. It's been over a decade since we've had a great video from NIN. The closest thing was HTDA's video for The Space In Between.

[HWB]

4 years later and this album still kicks ass to me. It feels raw and very honest, I still catch new textures and sounds with repeated listens. Hesitations Marks also had to happen for these EPs to happen

[Shadaloo]

4 years later and I'm much more lukewarm to the album than I was when it came out, when I was convinced it ranked only below TDS and TF (yeah, no). Now I look at it as 3/4 good and 1/4 rather underwhelming, a record that just falls apart midway through and recovers well enough, where most songs are vastly better live. I'll agree that NTAE and AV blow it right the hell out of the water.

Sucker for Lynch though so the CBH video was right up my alley. :rolleyes:

[HWB]

4 years later and I'm much more lukewarm to the album than I was when it came out, when I was convinced it ranked only below TDS and TF (yeah, no). Now I look at it as 3/4 good and 1/4 rather underwhelming, a record that just falls apart midway through and recovers well enough, where most songs are vastly better live. I'll agree that NTAE and AV blow it right the hell out of the water.

Sucker for Lynch though so the CBH video was right up my alley. :rolleyes:

I feel like the album becomes much stronger after Everything, then again, almost all NIN albums are better in their second halfs, this goes for all EPs too. It seems like Trent always saves up the more interesting songs later on the album.

[botley]

^ Even the soundtrack albums follow that pattern; all the best stuff on Dragon Tattoo is hidden in the back third of the record.

[HWB]

^ Even the soundtrack albums follow that pattern; all the best stuff on Dragon Tattoo is hidden in the back third of the record.

It's also worth noting that the first halfs also mostly tend to have singles. (Hurt and Sin being the only expectations I can think of)

[BRoswell]

I still really enjoy the album, but between the new score material and EPs, I haven't been playing anything from it as much. That's pretty much going to happen to any album after four years though.

[ultimatebdp]

I think when it came out I was just happy to have new NIN as I wasn’t feeling the Welcome Oblivion album as much as I’d hoped after that first great HTDA ep. 4 years later, I don’t hate HM, but it’s definitely towards the bottom of my list of TR’s albums. I get that he was trying new stuff, I loved the Russell Mills artwork, and I like a handful of songs on there…but overall it’s missing an “energy” that all other NIN albums have, IMO. Other than Copy of A, I didn’t even like the live versions of the HM songs so I was very apprehensive when NTAE was announced...for fear that it would be more of the same. Fortunately, Branches/Bones blew me away from the get-go and that short song has more energy than all of HM combined!! NTAE and AV have REALLY got me excited again and the live versions of the new songs sound great!!

[xfocalinx]

I listened to this album while driving last week..I noticed myself spacing out and not really paying attention to the lyrics. I don't want to say I don't think it aged well, but NTAE/AV are really spectacular.

[Jordan]

I still love Hesitation Marks. In fact, I've been surprised by how much I like it after a long periods of not listening to it. It's not my favorite album but I believe it has it's important place.
Keep in mind, some of you are saying that you loved it when it first came out but now that it's no longer new it feels worn, especially compared to NTAE and AV. Well, NTAE and AV are still new. I'm not saying the EP twins aren't better but we are still in the honeymoon phase with those two.

[HWB]

Not The Actual Events is very close to being one year old. I think honey moon for that EP's over, it seems like appreciation for that EP is growing over time thanks to its inaccessible nature. I expect the same for Add Violence.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Hez Marks is amazing. It took a lot of guts for him to release such a minimal and experimental collection of songs (by NIN standards). It's all over the place sound-wise, but goes down so well thematically and atmospherically.

The new EPs are good but lack the focus and cohesiveness of Hez Marks. I know, that's part of their charm, kind of like The Slip, which both EPs tend to resemble. Granted, songs like Less Than, She's Gone Away and The Idea of You are modern day NIN classics, no question. But then there's tracks like Burning Bright, The Background World and The Lovers which sound like they were composed over a lunch break. Not Anymore is a complete throwaway and doesn't warrant the lavish praise I've seen it receiving since AV's release.

But Hez Marks is a winner from start to finish. All Time Low, Satellite, Various Methods of Escape, Copy of A, Came Back Haunted, Find My Way, While I'm Still Here...it's just one burner after another after another. And it doesn't sound like anything else he's ever done, while still being positively NIN at the same time..

[HWB]

Hez Marks is amazing. It took a lot of guts for him to release such a minimal and experimental collection of songs (by NIN standards). It's all over the place sound-wise, but goes down so well thematically and atmospherically.

The new EPs are good but lack the focus and cohesiveness of Hez Marks. I know, that's part of their charm, kind of like The Slip, which both EPs tend to resemble. Granted, songs like Less Than, She's Gone Away and The Idea of You are modern day NIN classics, no question. But then there's tracks like Burning Bright, The Background World and The Lovers which sound like they were composed over a lunch break. Not Anymore is a complete throwaway and doesn't warrant the lavish praise I've seen it receiving since AV's release.

But Hez Marks is a winner from start to finish. All Time Low, Satellite, Various Methods of Escape, Copy of A, Came Back Haunted, Find My Way, While I'm Still Here...it's just one burner after another after another. And it doesn't sound like anything else he's ever done, while still being positively NIN at the same time..

I agree with you on Het Marks's focus and cohesiveness, but I disagree about Burning Bright Not Anymore and The Background World. Then again I utterly love The Slip, but I enjoyed Hesitation Marks a lot too. Your view on it is spot on.

[niggo]

The new EPs are good but lack the focus and cohesiveness of Hez Marks. I know, that's part of their charm, kind of like The Slip, which both EPs tend to resemble. Granted, songs like Less Than, She's Gone Away and The Idea of You are modern day NIN classics, no question. But then there's tracks like Burning Bright, The Background World and The Lovers which sound like they were composed over a lunch break. Not Anymore is a complete throwaway and doesn't warrant the lavish praise I've seen it receiving since AV's release.

Couldn't disagree more. Although I like She's Gone Away and The Idea of You, those two songs have to be my least favorite from both EP's. I love BB, I love TBW and I love The Lovers. And I absoultely super-duper love This Isn't The Place.

I listened to HM quite a lot. It's an awesome record and it's true that it doesn't sound like anything else he's ever done, and that's cool. There are amazing songs on it. But NTAE+AV feel 10x more relevant to me.

[iamclassic]

Hez Marks is amazing. It took a lot of guts for him to release such a minimal and experimental collection of songs (by NIN standards). It's all over the place sound-wise, but goes down so well thematically and atmospherically.

The new EPs are good but lack the focus and cohesiveness of Hez Marks. I know, that's part of their charm, kind of like The Slip, which both EPs tend to resemble. Granted, songs like Less Than, She's Gone Away and The Idea of You are modern day NIN classics, no question. But then there's tracks like Burning Bright, The Background World and The Lovers which sound like they were composed over a lunch break. Not Anymore is a complete throwaway and doesn't warrant the lavish praise I've seen it receiving since AV's release.

But Hez Marks is a winner from start to finish. All Time Low, Satellite, Various Methods of Escape, Copy of A, Came Back Haunted, Find My Way, While I'm Still Here...it's just one burner after another after another. And it doesn't sound like anything else he's ever done, while still being positively NIN at the same time..


Burning Bright over a lunch break? Hmm. I actually think lyrically it is one of the more complex NIN songs. I suppose you mean musically... As for The Background World, that song has a lot of layers and hidden stuff in it. Played backwards, he still says the line "Are you Sure?" as well as some other things. Agree on Hez Marks being more cohesive.

I like Hez Marks. TBH, the only album by NIN I'm not too thrilled about is The Slip. Also, I agree Not Anymore is far too short.

I think Dear World and The Lovers are two very weird songs that I only like when I'm in the mood for it. But besides Dear World, I feel NTAE is very cohesive, not sure about AV, still. *shrugs*

[Halo Infinity]

I just like how Hesitation Marks is one of those albums that I can rock out and chill out to at the same time to for the lack of better terms. I've thought about it since it came out, but it's grown on me to the point where I can really feel it now. I just had to give it some more time to breathe as a whole. It's great for when I don't want to keep up with the faster and heavier albums, or sit through albums as long as The Fragile or Ghosts I-IV, but it certainly packs a punch in just the right areas. (As with just about any NIN album.)

Another thing that still hasn't changed at all, is how I also like to switch between Pretty Hate Machine and With Teeth in between getting my fill from it too. I don't do it every time I listen to HM, but PHM and WT are my go-to albums whenever I want to listen to other NIN albums in between an HM fix. It kind of gives me a bit more of a reason to appreciate HM, but that's just me.

It's almost to the point where I also hardly skip around the album, as if I'm listening to Pretty Hate Machine or The Downward Spiral, which are still the albums I'm far less likely to skip around on whenever it comes to proper listens. At that point, I'd definitely say that I actually like it more than I did when it first came out. Even Disappointed and Running have been growing on me, and I skipped those songs a lot.

[HWB]

Y'know, screw it, this is my top three albums in NIN discography. It's a masterpiece in my eyes just like. I can safely say it isn't "new album" bias anymore. It just gets better with time for me.

[Amaro]

If “Hez Marks” (I like that lol) didn’t have “Satellite” it’d have been way, way better off. I’m super critical of including that one in the lot. -___- Throwaway, for me. Year Zero stinky.

I feel like a lot of people have said the same about “Everything” (for what it’s worth, both songs were supposedly made to be released on a greatest hits release), but I see Hez Marks as quite the “here and there” album. There‘s a nice representation of all of the vibes NIN is know by at that point (while still sounding fresh and very nicely cohesive altogether), with “Everything” landing smack-dab in the middle, providing a fair shakeup, which I find the whole unit benefits from having. Really, I feel twisted when I hear the song. Like it or not (I like it), it isn’t a joyful sounding song throughout.

*resists temptation to defend “Not Anymore” in this thread...resents people going off topic...hesitation mmmmmmarks*

Hesitation Marks is somewhere in my top 3 NIN albums. Some of the best material since The Fragile, hands fucking down.

[HWB]

If “Hez Marks” (I like that lol) didn’t have “Satellite”, it’d have been way, way better off. I’m super critical of including that one in the lot. -___- Throwaway, for me. Year Zero stinky.



Year Zero kicks ass in my opinion, so I don't mind Satellite, then again, I don't think it sounds like Year Zero song all that much. I feel like Hez Marks (hey, I like it too), is perfect from top to bottom

[Vertigo]

Satellite's a cool song, I just wish it had a less dominant and more varied drumbeat. Or that it had multitracks available so I could change that myself.

[implanted_microchip]

This was the first NIN album to be released when I'd become a fan, the first time I got to experience the feeling of new music coming out from the band and the first time I got to attend a concert in general, let alone for NIN. Came Back Haunted, the festival streams, the Tension tour, the Halloween date I caught, all of it was an electric and exciting time for me and was a big deal in my life, along with the 2014 shows (I ended up making some of the best friends I've ever had because of those shows), and Hesitation Marks was the soundtrack to all of it. It was on in every car, playing every time I was at home, going through my head all of the time.

While I'm Still Here/Black Noise, Copy of A, Various Methods of Escape, it was full of stuff that clicked with me right away and was the poppy synth-heavy sleek and dark with style material I was interested in at the time. The Sanctified rework that came about from that era is a great example of where Trent's approach to his work was at and the growth that HM showed to me -- tapping into the same beats, the same themes, the same frustrations and the same fears but doing it with a confidence, a sharpness and a focus that was fantastic. It represents a particular point in my life and the subject matter of fighting with old versions of yourself, having a life that should make you happy but still dealing with mental illness and feeling like you're only postponing the inevitable is still vivid and interesting ground for NIN.

The fact that this, Welcome Oblivion, the Gone Girl score and the touring for it all happened within a roughly one-year period is amazing and was the most overloaded I'd ever been with new work from my favorite artist. I don't listen to it as much as I once did (and I think I probably overplayed it at release) but seeing Copy of A live again this year reinforced by affinity for it and the album it's from. It wasn't a wild leap in a new direction, but it was a mature and stylish attempt at pushing forward and I admire it a lot. The new EPs are much more to my taste these days, but HM feels like Pretty Hate Machine and Year Zero had a baby and left it home alone unsupervised and I just wish they'd released multitracks for it because I feel like the remix potential was high for a lot of it.

[henryeatscereal]

If “Hez Marks” (I like that lol) didn’t have “Satellite” it’d have been way, way better off. I’m super critical of including that one in the lot. -___- Throwaway, for me. Year Zero stinky.

Really?, "Satellite" is great in my opinion; i think "Running" is a lot worse (but i can live with it, i would rather erase "Everything" from that album...)

[HWB]

Really?, "Satellite" is great in my opinion; i think "Running" is a lot worse (but i can live with it, i would rather erase "Everything" from that album...)

Everything and Running are awesome and one of many stand-outs on the album.

[acrid avid jam shred]

Running is shockingly underrated I think. It kinda sounds like it could belong on Radiohead's The King of Limbs or something, it's got an insistent rhythmic feel to it. Those scratchy guitars and Trent's vocals are brilliant.

[fillow]

Running sounds like an outtake from Niggy Tardust tbh. Expect Saul's voice popping up anytime.

[chuckrh]

I luv that record & thought the show was phenomenal. I saw them when they had the backup singers. Sure it was different for NIN but still excellent. That being said, the stripped down band of this year was beyond the beyond. So intense!

[paul_guyet]

So...I'm curious, has "Everything" grown on people, or do people still think it's the worst thing NIN has ever done?

Personally, I dug it from first listen and haven't stopped.

[SM Rollinger]

I love Everything, always have.

If it would have been played, im sure it would have been as heavy as Branches/Bones is live.

[neorev]

paul_guyet
Loved it from first listen. Shame a bunch of whiners ruined a good song that should have been a single and played live.

[sonic_discord]

@paul_guyet (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=261)
Loved it from first listen. Shame a bunch of whiners ruined a good song that should have been a single and played live.

Agreed. While it's far from being a favorite of mine, I have always felt that it got an undeserved amount of shade thrown its way. I would have liked to see the music video for it and hear it live. Who knows, it might have fallen into the category of songs that are better live and maybe those that hate it would have warmed up to the live version.

[HWB]

@paul_guyet (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=261)
Loved it from first listen. Shame a bunch of whiners ruined a good song that should have been a single and played live.

It was a single, just no music video for it.

Trent apparently just didn't like the music video (which happens far more often than you'd think) and the song became an irritant for him personally (not sure if due to people's reaction it or not).

Shame it not being played live.

[Jordan]

So...I'm curious, has "Everything" grown on people, or do people still think it's the worst thing NIN has ever done?

Worst song. But I do think the chorus is rad. I don't feel it fits well on the record, which doesn't help it. There is a entire thread dedicated to this topic. It seems like most (at least those speaking up) don't mind it.

[scribnation]

I dont know, when I first listened to it I was confused to why it sounded different from the rest of the album, but hey I guess Im just used to his dark and also quiet moments. I should probably give it a few listens so I can appreciate it atleast heh.

[paul_guyet]

I always wondered how folks would have reacted if that Best Of had just come out with "Everything" and "Satellite" as the only new tracks on it. I feel like there would have been a revolt.

[neorev]

paul_guyet Everything and Satellite happen to be my favorite HM songs and since I wasn't thrilled with much else from HM (except for In Two), so I probably would have been all good here.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Everything is 100% Jimmy Eat World cheese. I hated it when the album first came out, but now I don't mind it as much. The obligatory "I'm married with kids and my heart is so full" song that every badass rock musician from Dave Grohl to Josh Homme eventually composes. It sits smack in the middle of an album I never get tired of listening to, so it gets a pass..

[tony.parente]

I always wondered how folks would have reacted if that Best Of had just come out with "Everything" and "Satellite" as the only new tracks on it. I feel like there would have been a revolt.
It would have made them easier to swallow to be honest.

[BRoswell]

The obligatory "I'm married with kids and my heart is so full" song that every badass rock musician from Dave Grohl to Josh Homme eventually composes.

That's not even what the song is about. It's about being too cocky about surviving previous brushes with death and thinking you're invincible. I don't know why people still think it's a happy song. It's a song about being in denial of how fucked up you are. You can hate the lyrics or the music all you want, but if you think it's a song about being happy, you're wrong.

From the wiki (the original interview has been taken down apparently):


"I was trying to make something that leapt out of the speakers in a very umfamiliar way. At first listen, it might seem to be in praise of life but it's supposed to come off as an arrogant, 'Fuck you. I've survived!' It also gets less triumphant and more reflective and melancholy towards the end."

[sweeterthan]

Jimmy eat world?

Uh, I think you need new headphones or something. Maybe give it another listen with an open mind.

I’ve never understood the hate for Everything. It’s like he can’t do anything different.

[HWB]

Everything is 100% Jimmy Eat World cheese. I hated it when the album first came out, but now I don't mind it as much. The obligatory "I'm married with kids and my heart is so full" song that every badass rock musician from Dave Grohl to Josh Homme eventually composes. It sits smack in the middle of an album I never get tired of listening to, so it gets a pass..





All the walls begin to dissolve away
Feel your hands begin to shake (to shake, to shake, to shake, to shake)
And just who you think you used to be
All begins to bend and break (and break, and break, and break)


(https://genius.com/Nine-inch-nails-everything-lyrics#note-7875185)But this thing that lives inside of me
Will surely rise and wake (and wake, and wake, and wake, and wake)
And his seed that bleeds right through to me (https://genius.com/Nine-inch-nails-everything-lyrics#note-4807871)
And it comes to grab and take (and take, and take, and take)


How joyful! If anything, it is really dark, as is entirety of Hesitation Marks.
(https://genius.com/Nine-inch-nails-everything-lyrics#note-7875185)

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

"Everything" might have been Trent's business acumen showing in full force. What better way to appeal to the Green Day and Blink 182 fans then make this horrid pop punk song that 3rd stage Warped Tour bands might play...I still find it odd that some people vehemently defend this song, as if the criticism of this song is somehow a knock on Trent's legacy. Imagine if this song was sequenced in the middle of Downward Spiral or Fragile, and how embarrassing it would look next to majestic pieces of art like "Becoming' and 'Reptile' and 'Somewhat Damaged' and 'TDTWWA' etc.....I'm sure Trent would admit the song is a piece of shit if you got him alone.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Jimmy eat world?

Uh, I think you need new headphones or something. Maybe give it another listen with an open mind.

I’ve never understood the hate for Everything. It’s like he can’t do anything different.

I guess that post I made last month defending Hes Marks:


Hez Marks is amazing. It took a lot of guts for him to release such a minimal and experimental collection of songs (by NIN standards). It's all over the place sound-wise, but goes down so well thematically and atmospherically.

The new EPs are good but lack the focus and cohesiveness of Hez Marks. I know, that's part of their charm, kind of like The Slip, which both EPs tend to resemble. Granted, songs like Less Than, She's Gone Away and The Idea of You are modern day NIN classics, no question. But then there's tracks like Burning Bright, The Background World and The Lovers which sound like they were composed over a lunch break. Not Anymore is a complete throwaway and doesn't warrant the lavish praise I've seen it receiving since AV's release.

But Hez Marks is a winner from start to finish. All Time Low, Satellite, Various Methods of Escape, Copy of A, Came Back Haunted, Find My Way, While I'm Still Here...it's just one burner after another after another. And it doesn't sound like anything else he's ever done, while still being positively NIN at the same time..

...where I championed it as a daring, creative outlier in his discography went completely over your head. Hell, I never even once claimed Everything was bad, per se. But offer anything close to a judgement in regards to a song you yourself enjoy and suddenly I'm a close-minded asshole who needs new headphones?

My headphones are just fine. So is thinking for myself. I am free...I can see...always here...finally..

[BRoswell]

The problem is that your judgement of the song is wrong according to the guy who wrote it. I could talk about how "Closer" was really about Trent standing in line at Arby's and getting "closer" to a roast beef sandwich, and that would be fine as my opinion, but that doesn't mean it's right, or that I'm safe from any critique of my opinion.

Also, spiral here felt the need to PM me about their opinion and how I'm just "bitter" because they don't share my opinion of it. Thanks for the PM, but I'm going to stick with what Trent said.

[HWB]

".I still find it odd that some people vehemently defend this song

It's an amazing song.

[Dr Channard]

Here we are coming up on 5 years later, and the Everything topic still simmers. Wow.


"Everything" might have been Trent's business acumen showing in full force. What better way to appeal to the Green Day and Blink 182 fans then make this horrid pop punk song that 3rd stage Warped Tour bands might play...

Aw, c’mon man. I love you to death and genuinely do get a skewed enjoyment out of your posts, but Trent is on record stating the track was more his take on Joy Division and New Order material. And that thematically it was his arrogant declaration of survival against the odds. The track almost seems more poignant as time rolls on and more and more of his contemporaries are sadly forever gone.


I still find it odd that some people vehemently defend this song, as if the criticism of this song is somehow a knock on Trent's legacy. Imagine if this song was sequenced in the middle of Downward Spiral or Fragile, and how embarrassing it would look next to majestic pieces of art like "Becoming' and 'Reptile' and 'Somewhat Damaged' and 'TDTWWA' etc.....I'm sure Trent would admit the song is a piece of shit if you got him alone.

Is it one of the best nin tracks? No. But not every track can be Happiness in Slavery. There is nothing wrong with criticism, but the aftermath on Everything was over the top with the outrage and the alleged petition from fans to remove it from the album, just hilariously absurd. Simply push the skip button for the track. Or buying the tracks you like and not the ones you don’t is also an option.

Going for a range of sounds and moods is a good thing for an album, giving it emotional peaks and valleys. Treading new ground and trying different things is important to most artist. While on it’s own Everything isn’t a personal favorite of mine, it works (albeit a little jarring and weird) within the album. But are you gonna tell me that a track like Big Man With A Gun isn’t a little jarring and weird within TDS, or Starfuckers, Inc. isn’t a little jarring and weird within TF?


...Trent standing in line at Arby's and getting "closer" to a roast beef sandwich...

I’d like to think that when Trent goes to Arby’s, he orders the Meat Mountain.

[BRoswell]

I still find it odd that some people vehemently defend this song, as if the criticism of this song is somehow a knock on Trent's legacy.

I still find it odd that defending it bothers people who can't back up their claims. Curious...

Trent has talked about what influenced the song and what it's about, none of which has to do with him being married, having kids, or trying to appeal to the Jimmy Eat World/Green Day/Blink-182/Kidz Bop/etc. crowd. If that's not what the song is about to the guy that wrote it, then that's not what the song is about. You can argue about what it sounds like to you, but if you're going to argue about what Trent's intentions were with the song, then you'll have to ask the man himself, which is what several people have done, and what has been quoted quite a few times in here and other threads.


I’d like to think that when Trent goes to Arby’s, he orders the Meat Mountain.

Of that I have no doubt. :p

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Here we are coming up on 5 years later, and the Everything topic still simmers. Wow.



Aw, c’mon man. I love you to death and genuinely do get a skewed enjoyment out of your posts, but Trent is on record stating the track was more his take on Joy Division and New Order material. And that thematically it was his arrogant declaration of survival against the odds. The track almost seems more poignant as time rolls on and more and more of his contemporaries are sadly forever gone.



Is it one of the best nin tracks? No. But not every track can be Happiness in Slavery. There is nothing wrong with criticism, but the aftermath on Everything was over the top with the outrage and the alleged petition from fans to remove it from the album, just hilariously absurd. Simply push the skip button for the track. Or buying the tracks you like and not the ones you don’t is also an option.

Going for a range of sounds and moods is a good thing for an album, giving it emotional peaks and valleys. Treading new ground and trying different things is important to most artist. While on it’s own Everything isn’t a personal favorite of mine, it works (albeit a little jarring and weird) within the album. But are you gonna tell me that a track like Big Man With A Gun isn’t a little jarring and weird within TDS, or Starfuckers, Inc. isn’t a little jarring and weird within TF?



I’d like to think that when Trent goes to Arby’s, he orders the Meat Mountain.

I'm all for Trent trying new things and taking risks ("Burning Bright" is a perfect example)..I love when artists try new things in an effort to challenge their fans..I hate when artists try new things and do something commercial...Trent trying a new thing with 'Everything' seemed like catering to the lowest possible denominator...Its as poppy as NIN can get and seems like a play for radio exposure (specifically the vocal take. I dont even mind the music. But dear god, those high pitch pop vocals)

[BRoswell]

I'm all for Trent trying new things..

I hate when artists try new things...

Freudian slip? :p

Also, I think there's a difference between something being more accessible and something being made for the lowest common denominator. If Trent really wanted to appeal to those people, he wouldn't cite Fear, New Order, The Cure, and Joy Division as influences.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Freudian slip? :p

Also, I think there's a difference between something being more accessible and something being made for the lowest common denominator. If Trent really wanted to appeal to those people, he wouldn't cite Fear, New Order, The Cure, and Joy Division as influences.

My point being I dont see any similarities to those bands in that song...maybe the guitar line sounds a bit 80s postpunk-ish, but once the vocals come in, it takes the song into pop territory.....And the only Cure song it draws parallels to is "Friday I'm In Love' with the silly pop vocal..A song even Robert Smith has admitted is a "stupid song"...The vocals are what ruined that song for me...Musically, it actually had promise...

[sweeterthan]

I guess that post I made last month defending Hes Marks:



...where I championed it as a daring, creative outlier in his discography went completely over your head. Hell, I never even once claimed Everything was bad, per se. But offer anything close to a judgement in regards to a song you yourself enjoy and suddenly I'm a close-minded asshole who needs new headphones?

My headphones are just fine. So is thinking for myself. I am free...I can see...always here...finally..
I never said you’re an asshole. I said the song doesn’t sound like jimmy eat world and to listen to it again.

Reznor has written a ton of pop songs. Pretty hate machine is all pop songs. Fans acting like everything was a huge break from the norm and it’s somehow beneath them to listen it is weird to me. It ruined Everything, the single. The backlash was unwarranted. It’s a great, beautiful nin song that doesn’t sound like all the nin songs and that’s ok.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paul_guyet]

I love that this track is still tearing our lives apart.
Is this the most divisive NIN track since...I don't know..."Deep"? People really seemed to be of two minds when that came out. Nothing like "Everything", but I recall some major hate thrown its way as well.

[gorast]

Was the problem with Deep the song itself, or the music video? The song isn't a creative marvel, but it's not like it's horrendous.

[Mataxia]

Never really understood the hate for Everything. NIN has plenty of "dark" songs that are cheesier than Everything. And I don't think it's any poppier than say, Only (among many other poppy NIN singles). Major key doesn't automatically equal trash pop. And as others have said, I think the people who think it's just a super happy song are misinterpreting it.

[BRoswell]

Was the problem with Deep the song itself, or the music video? The song isn't a creative marvel, but it's not like it's horrendous.

I think people saw that Trent didn't like how the video turned out and automatically assumed that he didn't like the song. I think the fact that he played it live during the With Teeth era shows that he at least liked it enough to perform it.

Personally, I love Deep. Definitely an underrated track. The video? Well, it is what it is.

[paul_guyet]

Was the problem with Deep the song itself, or the music video? The song isn't a creative marvel, but it's not like it's horrendous.Definitely more the video, but I just remember a lot of division over the song as well.

[henryeatscereal]

I got no problem with "Everything" because it's "pop", i like "That's what i get " a lot (from PHM), so i don't think it has anything to do with the genre

[witte]

I got no problem with "Everything" because it's "pop", i like "That's what i get " a lot (from PHM), so i don't think it has anything to do with the genre
"That's what I get" has more soul. "Everything" sounds to me little bit 'spastic/forced'. That's what I find from all those poppy song from the last decennium. We know, it's just a matter of taste.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Worst song. But I do think the chorus is rad. I don't feel it fits well on the record, which doesn't help it. There is a entire thread dedicated to this topic. It seems like most (at least those speaking up) don't mind it.

At this point, it's the only memorable song on the album for me. I don't love it, but it sounded more genuine than just about everything else on the album.

[Amaro]

Running sounds like an outtake from Niggy Tardust tbh. Expect Saul's voice popping up anytime.

That’s fair to say, because in that same vein, for me, it has a strong sound of things a la The Fragile, which is probably why I really like it.


At this point, it's the only memorable song on the album for me. I don't love it, but it sounded more genuine than just about everything else on the album.

oh snap dude!!!

Just no!!

[sonic_discord]

At this point, it's the only memorable song on the album for me. I don't love it, but it sounded more genuine than just about everything else on the album.

You didn't find Various Methods of Escape or I Would for You to be genuine? I don't even know what to say...

[HWB]

You didn't find Various Methods of Escape or I Would for You to be genuine? I don't even know what to say...

Or While I'm Still Here
Or In Two
Or Find My Way
Or Running....
Fuck it, every track.

Hesitation Marks is raw as hell.

[Substance242]

Listened to Hesitation Marks (audiophile, btw what happened to this interesting experiment) yesterday evening, mp3 player and pillow over my face (yeah, I like the warmth and disconnect), after about week without listening to anything - and it worked so well, aaaaargh, orgasm. Even the more repetitive songs are OK, but what follows them is mind-blowing. And the last three songs are one of the best LP endings I know. Even the remixes are good ("Find my way" some strong sustained notes, and then when it becomes peaceful, shivers), and the four "Conversation" demos I can't remember if I cut myself from some iTunes-only file or from where. So, Hesitation Marks are still good, don't you forget that! :-)

Edit: The last three I mean For you - In two - While+Noise.
I just don't know anymore...
I just don't know anymore...
I just don't know anymore...

[gamecat235]

... And the last three songs are one of the best LP endings I know. Even the remixes are good ("Find my way" some strong sustained notes, and then when it becomes peaceful, shivers), and the four "Conversation" demos I can't remember if I cut myself from some iTunes-only file or from where. So, Hesitation Marks are still good, don't you forget that! :-)

Edit: The last three I mean For you - In two - While+Noise...


I’ve made the argument in several non-ETS spaces that While I’m Still Here / Black Noise is as perfect a song as I could have hoped for, and a great ending of an album to boot (it's easily T5 for best album closers). Hell, I wrote about just this pairing a few years ago over here (http://backtalk.kinja.com/songs-everyone-should-know-nine-inch-nails-while-im-s-1680675107). I'll go on record now, with many years of absorbing Hesitation Marks, that it is still my favorite NIN album, and that WISH/BN close the album perfectly. Perfectly.

[Max]

I was listening to Hesitation Marks today and a realization occurred to me that others may have noticed already noticed and commented on as well.

Musically, Hesitation Marks is a hip-hop/rap album. This is true of every song minus Everything, possibly In Two.

I'm not sure if this was his intention, I'm not sure it even matters, but that's totally what it is and this fascinates me. I think what is really surprising is none of the interviews or articles at the time seemed to touch on this at all, and he never really seemed conscious of it, or if he was he never said so.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

[StockAvuryah]

I was listening to Hesitation Marks today and a realization occurred to me that others may have noticed already noticed and commented on as well.

Musically, Hesitation Marks is a hip-hop/rap album. This is true of every song minus Everything, possibly In Two.

I'm not sure if this was his intention, I'm not sure it even matters, but that's totally what it is and this fascinates me. I think what is really surprising is none of the interviews or articles at the time seemed to touch on this at all, and he never really seemed conscious of it, or if he was he never said so.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

What elements of the music are hip-hop to you ?

[bobbie solo]

I was listening to Hesitation Marks today and a realization occurred to me that others may have noticed already noticed and commented on as well.

Musically, Hesitation Marks is a hip-hop/rap album. This is true of every song minus Everything, possibly In Two.

I'm not sure if this was his intention, I'm not sure it even matters, but that's totally what it is and this fascinates me. I think what is really surprising is none of the interviews or articles at the time seemed to touch on this at all, and he never really seemed conscious of it, or if he was he never said so.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

https://media.giphy.com/media/pUeXcg80cO8I8/giphy.gif

[henryeatscereal]

I was listening to Hesitation Marks today and a realization occurred to me that others may have noticed already noticed and commented on as well.

Musically, Hesitation Marks is a hip-hop/rap album. This is true of every song minus Everything, possibly In Two.

I'm not sure if this was his intention, I'm not sure it even matters, but that's totally what it is and this fascinates me. I think what is really surprising is none of the interviews or articles at the time seemed to touch on this at all, and he never really seemed conscious of it, or if he was he never said so.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?
Some of the beats in songs like "Satellite", "Running" and "While I'm Still Here" do sound hip hop-ish, but i think the whole album has all kinds of influences and sounds, at moments it sounds a bit influenced by LCD Soundsystem.

Come at me!

[chuckrh]

Although I prefer the current line-up, I really liked the expanded band with Pino Pallidino & the back up singers (wish Adrian Belew hadn't backed out!). It was different for NIN & IMHO quite good. & the visuals on that tour were stunning.

[Max]

Some of the beats in songs like "Satellite", "Running" and "While I'm Still Here" do sound hip hop-ish, but i think the whole albums has all kinds of influences and sounds, at moments it sounds a bit influenced by LCD Soundsystem.

Come at me!

I would agree that there are other influences in there. But also consider that hip hop itself includes some of these influences these days too. Definitely blurry lines between genres.

Also consider that he did most of the first pass of composing on the Maschine from what I understand and that is very beat-oriented. Often used to compose hip-hop beats.

Finally, I would just propose that anyone interested just go give it a listen. Tune out the lyrics and listen to the music and consider the idea. Everything is more Joy Division and In Two is a bit of a stretch towards the end of it, but every other track would work on a hip hop record.

I think back to previous songs and there are very few that would work in the same way. Down in it of course. Closer. Maybe a couple off With Teeth and maybe Echoplex off The Slip? But not a lot.

I would be very interested to hear Trent’s thoughts. Perhaps he would totally disagree with me? I’m happy to hear other points of view. I really don’t have stake in it. I like Saul Williams, RTJ, and a few others, but in general it’s not my genre.

Hesitation Marks feels more and more like an anomaly in the catalogue these days. I really like it but it’s also very unique compared to what came before and after and somewhat puzzling to me now after the Trilogy.

[chuckrh]

I would agree that there are other influences in there. But also consider that hip hop itself includes some of these influences these days too. Definitely blurry lines between genres.

Also consider that he did most of the first pass of composing on the Maschine from what I understand and that is very beat-oriented. Often used to compose hip-hop beats.

Finally, I would just propose that anyone interested just go give it a listen. Tune out the lyrics and listen to the music and consider the idea. Everything is more Joy Division and In Two is a bit of a stretch towards the end of it, but every other track would work on a hip hop record.

I think back to previous songs and there are very few that would work in the same way. Down in it of course. Closer. Maybe a couple off With Teeth and maybe Echoplex off The Slip? But not a lot.

I would be very interested to hear Trent’s thoughts. Perhaps he would totally disagree with me? I’m happy to hear other points of view. I really don’t have stake in it. I like Saul Williams, RTJ, and a few others, but in general it’s not my genre.

Hesitation Marks feels more and more like an anomaly in the catalogue these days. I really like it but it’s also very unique compared to what came before and after and somewhat puzzling to me now after the Trilogy.

some great songs on the record. "find my way" is 1 of my favorite NIN songs & to my ears "copy of a" was sounding great this year. as good as anything in the catalog & that's saying a lot!

[StockAvuryah]

...
Finally, I would just propose that anyone interested just go give it a listen. Tune out the lyrics and listen to the music and consider the idea. Everything is more Joy Division and In Two is a bit of a stretch towards the end of it, but every other track would work on a hip hop record.


Isn't that just Trip Hop then

[r_z]

It's an interesting idea, but ultimately too far-fetched, imo. Genres of any kind aren't limited to the use of certain equipment, for one.

The record was probably influenced by many different artists or genres. There certainly is a Hip Hop element to it in SOME of the beats, but there are many examples, where there are clearly cues from other genres.

See, for example: "Copy Of A" vs. "Two Different Ways (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4T2K-dkxA4)"

[katara]

Trent's been into Hip Hop from the beginning with Down In It. The Fragile was supposed slated to be "a funk hip-hop record (http://www.theninhotline.net/archives/articles/rollina.shtml)", which obviously changed a bit, but he still worked with Dr Dre. Later, with Saul Williams, interestingly on some of the unreleased songs from that same album.

To say the whole of Hesitation Marks is supposed to be rap album is maybe stretching it a little. However, the influence is undeniable.

[Max]

I just want to make the distinction- a rap/ hip hop album *musically*. That he is not rapping or speaking over the music makes a big difference in terms of the final genre. But I would encourage everyone to go and listen to the actual music itself and tune out the lyrics and tell me I’m wrong about it.

And again it’s way different from every other NIN album in this regard. You could not turn off The Slip or The Fragile and have Mos Def or Killer Mike rhyme over it. But almost all of Hesitation Marks could easily serve that purpose.

It is probably because it is more beat-based than the other records, and it’s beat based because that’s how he started composing it.

Again this is just how it strikes me. Style and genre are subjective and overlap a lot.

[Krazy]

I personally don’t hear it at all on HM. Closest thing to a NIN rap/hip hop record is probably Year Zero- and I think Trent mentioned it a bit back in the day. Not all of the songs but some with the more “electronica “ production.

And Down In It is definitely a rap rock tune. Not sure if he meant do that back in the day on purpose. Regardless, do yourself a favor and play DII on someone’s car stereo that has a subwoofer. It’s pretty damn cool with the hard hits and bass drops even to this day.

[SM Rollinger]

I personally don’t hear it at all on HM. Closest thing to a NIN rap/hip hop record is probably Year Zero- and I think Trent mentioned it a bit back in the day. Not all of the songs but some with the more “electronica “ production.

And Down In It is definitely a rap rock tune. Not sure if he meant do that back in the day on purpose. Regardless, do yourself a favor and play DII on someone’s car stereo that has a subwoofer. It’s pretty damn cool with the hard hits and bass drops even to this day.


Vessel hammers too, but what really shreds cones is the first Puscifer record.

[Halo Infinity]

@Max (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=6670) - It's hard to come up with examples without going discussing other Nine Inch Nails songs and albums, but it always made sense to be because of Trent Reznor's eclectic preferences, influences and inspirations. I've always liked how Nine Inch Nails can easily appeal to fans of rock and pop in general, and even rap as we can apparently see. It also makes even more sense considering how well his music works when remixed and mashed up. So, aside from fame, success and popularity, I always thought it's cool how a massive range of eclectic and overall diverse tastes also appeared to fans of just about any genre of music.

Anyway The Gangsta, The Killa and The Dope Dealer by Westside Connection, which sampled Hurt came to mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc_Le4k4yYY

As for Hesitation Marks itself, I could totally see how it can work with rap. I do see how pop is a given though, but I still see what you mean.

[Max]

I should clarify that I’m not even into rap or hip hop all that much. I like Saul Williams and RTJ are pretty good... but my other favorite bands are Bowie, Radiohead, and Mogwai. I’m just saying that this isn’t coming from a place of me hearing what I want to hear.

It’s interesting that many others aren’t hearing it the same way so I think i’ll let it go here. I wasn’t sure if everyone else already thought the same or not.

Even this issue aside, the more time passes and the more material NIN releases, the more HM stands out to me as a real departure from the rest of their material.

Reminds me of how Bowie or others would reinvent themselves over time. You go back and listen to Young Americans and it feels like a different person from other records.

For me, Bad Witch felt like a real departure as well, in a good way. Almost a new form of music.

[snaapz]

Sometimes it takes me a while.

'In Two' has caught my attention. I am a fan of his vox and techniques on this track, as well as the story.

I don't suffer from any personality disorders, and I don't know if TR does either officially.. but TR has lived a life that none of us will ever experience. Whether its Britney Spears, Beiber, Chris Cornell, Chester and so on and so on... they all share one thing and we have seen the toll taken when being a wealthy celebrity constantly on the road and the endless pressures/deadlines/commitments, your "fans" shitting on you, as well as examining who you once were in your 20s and who you are in your 40s, and where you are headed....etc.

TR has many paths behind him and ahead of him, to some degree I can imagine the struggles that come with his opportunities, desires, and desired lifestyle(s).

I don't know what the song is about but I can only guess its about TR and which personality he is? Does this make sense?

- 1994 Sexy Goth rocker, sex, drugs, rock and roll
- 1985 synth pop rocker, focused on music and booking gigs
- 1997 Jeff Martin? (Perfect Drug)
- 2019 Executive, Businessman, father, mature
- 2008 retired
- 1995 celebrity, posse, backstage parties, booze and women
- 2020 retired and rest on his laurels, travel and be with family
- 2020 Film scorer
- 2020 NINE INCH NAILS like its 2020
- 2020 NINE INCH NAILS like its 1994

- Do I wear a suit?
- Do I wear leather?

- etc x100 ....

[HWB]

Kind of grew off of me, weird, I used to love this, a lot. Mayb I listened to it too much, right now I guess I want that energy, that rawness, now I usually go for With_Teeth. There is something I find "empty" about a lot of Hesitation Marks' lyrics, it's weird. It was a nice experiment, we'll probably never will hear this side of NIN, this very subdued side of it.

[Max]

I think it makes all the difference in the world where you are in life and what you are dealing with, about what HM a means to you. If you are looking back to your past, trying to grow past who you were and not sure if you can, then it’s perfect. It’s actually a pretty particular and complex idea. HM will always be special to me. It’s actually one of his most vulnerable records IMO.

[HWB]

I think it makes all the difference in the world where you are in life and what you are dealing with, about what HM a means to you. If you are looking back to your past, trying to grow past who you were and not sure if you can, then it’s perfect. It’s actually a pretty particular and complex idea. HM will always be special to me. It’s actually one of his most vulnerable records IMO.
That is a good way to look at it, it's been a while since I listened to it, it used to be very important to me, but I guess With_Teeth was the more "personal "album to me at the time.

I do still remember Various Methods Of Escape being REALLY vulnerable.

[Max]

That is a good way to look at it, it's been a while since I listened to it, it used to be very important to me, but I guess With_Teeth was the more "personal "album to me at the time.

I do still remember Various Methods Of Escape being REALLY vulnerable.

Yes! Various Methods of Escape is a very vulnerable song that really spoke to me immediately and still does at times. I think Everything was too in a way, both lyrically and musically, and he got beat up a lot for it. I think that HM is possibly the most truly vulnerable record that he’s made since The Fragile.

[Erneuert]

I’ve had the “I’ve got to let GO...” part of VMOE stuck in my head for the past few days.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Was watching parts of the Angry Young Man DVD the other night. I was never a big fan of the whole gospel singer thing he did on that trek, or Pino's role as bassist, but those early shows from August and September before the album had dropped were the stuff of excellence. Very stripped down and layered and not overthought..

I still love listening to Hes Marks on a great set of headphones. There's a whole world going on within that record if you have the patience to experience it. Copy of A, VMOE, Find My Way, While I'm Still Here and All Time Low are all understated gems..

[Erneuert]

There's a whole world going on within that record if you have the patience to experience it. Copy of A, VMOE, Find My Way, While I'm Still Here and All Time Low are all understated gems..

Agreed. I’d also add Everything and In Two.

[HWB]

Yes! Various Methods of Escape is a very vulnerable song that really spoke to me immediately and still does at times. I think Everything was too in a way, both lyrically and musically, and he got beat up a lot for it. I think that HM is possibly the most truly vulnerable record that he’s made since The Fragile.

If were to ask me, I'd consider Pretty Hate Machine, The Fragile, Still, With Teeth and Hesitation Marks to be the most vulnerable records he has ever made, coming to think of it.

Perhaps Add Violence could fit into that as well, I found it to be the human side of the Trilogy.

It's weird as my recent post here called the album empty, re listening to it though, I do feel like I was terribly wrong.

Going back to Hesitation Marks, you have songs like "Find My Way", "While I'm Still Here", " "I Would For You" and well, probably all of them

There is this sense of dread and anxiety all throughout it. Almost all lyrics seem pretty self defeating, a lot of self hatred on it, at least for me.

[slopesandsam]

I feel like this is sort of a snake-eating-its-own-tail argument. Because NIN, other industrial bands, and the post-punk movement in general were doing the heavy production + drum machine thing before it became a staple of hip-hop. You could probably argue that that movement (if not NIN in particular) were influences on rap and hip-hop production, and then rap and hip-hop production was an influence on NIN in turn.

[MrLobster]

and the post-punk movement in general were doing the heavy production + drum machine thing before it became a staple of hip-hop. You could probably argue that that movement (if not NIN in particular) were influences on rap and hip-hop production, and then rap and hip-hop production was an influence on NIN in turn.

If we take the evolution of the Purest Feeling demos to the finished Pretty Hate Machine album, I think that the production Adrian Sherwood and Keith LeBlanc had bears out that... coming from Reggae/Dub/Industrial roots (with On-U Sound and Ministry) and Tommy Boy respectively.

[Max]

I feel like this is sort of a snake-eating-its-own-tail argument. Because NIN, other industrial bands, and the post-punk movement in general were doing the heavy production + drum machine thing before it became a staple of hip-hop. You could probably argue that that movement (if not NIN in particular) were influences on rap and hip-hop production, and then rap and hip-hop production was an influence on NIN in turn.

Yeah that’s just not true at all. Hip hop and rap date back to the early eighties. You should watch the documentary on Amazon about the 808 drum machine. As with much of modern music, the innovations actually came from the black community and were later cooped by white culture. The same is true of jazz, blues, rock and roll, and rap, all of which are the foundations of modern music.

Trent Reznor is absolutely innovative and yes his music did go on to become an influence for all kinds of musicians including hip hop artists. But let’s be honest with ourselves. Trent Reznor did not in any way lay the foundation for modern hip hop.

[mauro995]

I remembered this week that I had the audiophile mastered version in a hard drive, and I hadn't listened to it in years. While "audiophile" might not have been the best way to describe this master, it's amazing how much the album improves by listening to this version.

[HWB]

After getting into The Cure I get more vibes from them throughout most of Hesitation Marks rather than Hip-Hop, especially "Everything", perhaps it's just that one song, but I connect Hesitation Marks to some Cure albums..

The more of a Hip-Hop influenced album is Year Zero.

I remembered this week that I had the audiophile mastered version in a hard drive, and I hadn't listened to it in years. While "audiophile" might not have been the best way to describe this master, it's amazing how much the album improves by listening to this version.
I haven't listened to the "normal" master of the album in years, I always stick to the "Audiophile" now. I am not sure how significant the differences actually are between the two masters.

[thefragile_jake]

I recently put this album back on again after sitting on it for awhile and I forgot how much there was to enjoy through it. I see this album get more of a negative rep. than it actually deserves. I get the criticism at times, but overall - I still really enjoy this one. Honestly, the only track that doesn't work for me is "Satellite" and that's probably due to how Year Zero the song feels in both a production standpoint and lyrically. Year Zero still remains the one Nine Inch Nails project that no matter how many times I want it to click for me it ... it never does.

Also, if there's a fan club for those who actually really love "Everything" - let me be a member, please. It's SO unlike anything within the rest of the album and I'll fully admit that the track doesn't belong on the record ... but it wears it's love for The Cure on it's sleeve and it's just a really enjoyable track. I think my admiration of similar sounding bands makes me enjoy the track as much as I do.

To me, Hesitation Marks is like With Teeth with a little bit of The Fragile mixed in. There are hooks all over the record, but there's a lot more going on within the textures of the tracks than the straight-forward rock of WT. With a little bit more added to them ... songs like "Disappointed", "Various Methods of Escape" (some two of my favorites off the album), "Running" and "In Two" could've easily sat on Disc 2 of The Fragile IMO. I get where Trent is coming from in that the album has a "minimal" approach ("Copy of A"'s rigid, yet awesome drum sequence for sure) but there is a lot beneath the surface to enjoy. Though it's a little all over the place and Trent would kick the shit out of my expectations a few years later with Bad Witch, it was good to revisit this album again.

[Max]

I recently put this album back on again after sitting on it for awhile and I forgot how much there was to enjoy through it. I see this album get more of a negative rep. than it actually deserves. I get the criticism at times, but overall - I still really enjoy this one. Honestly, the only track that doesn't work for me is "Satellite" and that's probably due to how Year Zero the song feels in both a production standpoint and lyrically. Year Zero still remains the one Nine Inch Nails project that no matter how many times I want it to click for me it ... it never does.

Also, if there's a fan club for those who actually really love "Everything" - let me be a member, please. It's SO unlike anything within the rest of the album and I'll fully admit that the track doesn't belong on the record ... but it wears it's love for The Cure on it's sleeve and it's just a really enjoyable track. I think my enjoyment of similar sounding bands makes me enjoy the track as much as I do.

To me, Hesitation Marks is like With Teeth with a little bit of The Fragile mixed in. There are hooks all over the record, but there's a lot more going on within the textures of the tracks than the straight-forward rock of WT. With a little bit more added to them ... songs like "Disappointed", "Various Methods of Escape" (some two of my favorites off the album), "Running" and "In Two" could've easily sat on Disc 2 of The Fragile IMO. I get where Trent is coming from in that the album has a "minimal" approach ("Copy of A"'s rigid, yet awesome drum sequence for sure) but there is a lot beneath the surface to enjoy. Though it's a little all over the place and Trent would kick the shit out of my expectations a few years later with Bad Witch, it was good to revisit this album again.

I am totally with you on all of this. Count me in on Everything as well. People don't know what's good.

[HWB]

I recently put this album back on again after sitting on it for awhile and I forgot how much there was to enjoy through it. I see this album get more of a negative rep. than it actually deserves. I get the criticism at times, but overall - I still really enjoy this one. Honestly, the only track that doesn't work for me is "Satellite" and that's probably due to how Year Zero the song feels in both a production standpoint and lyrically. Year Zero still remains the one Nine Inch Nails project that no matter how many times I want it to click for me it ... it never does.

Also, if there's a fan club for those who actually really love "Everything" - let me be a member, please. It's SO unlike anything within the rest of the album and I'll fully admit that the track doesn't belong on the record ... but it wears it's love for The Cure on it's sleeve and it's just a really enjoyable track. I think my admiration of similar sounding bands makes me enjoy the track as much as I do.

To me, Hesitation Marks is like With Teeth with a little bit of The Fragile mixed in. There are hooks all over the record, but there's a lot more going on within the textures of the tracks than the straight-forward rock of WT. With a little bit more added to them ... songs like "Disappointed", "Various Methods of Escape" (some two of my favorites off the album), "Running" and "In Two" could've easily sat on Disc 2 of The Fragile IMO. I get where Trent is coming from in that the album has a "minimal" approach ("Copy of A"'s rigid, yet awesome drum sequence for sure) but there is a lot beneath the surface to enjoy. Though it's a little all over the place and Trent would kick the shit out of my expectations a few years later with Bad Witch, it was good to revisit this album again.
EXACTLY what I was thinking of, the record gave me a lot of The Fragile vibes. Stuff like "Even Deeper" wouldn't be out of place on Hesitation Marks.

What sometimes bothers me how people look at this album as Trent's "happy" album, I think that is just not understanding what each of the songs are trying to get across.

Also, I am on that "Everything rocks" club, I think, when you think about it, it works even in the context of the album Disappointed goes really well into it.

[Max]

This morning I put on HM and I was suddenly struck by how this album could have been approached a little differently to give it a different story arc and get rid of a couple tracks that feel a little weaker or don't fit. I know that's an audacious claim to make, but it has increased my enjoyment of the album and perhaps it will do the same for you. Think of this as an alternate universe version of what Hesitation Marks could have been if Trent and Atticus had made a few different editorial choices. Not better or worse, just different:

"Everything"
"Came Back Haunted"
"In Two"
"All Time Low"
"The Eater of Dreams"
"Copy of a"
"Disappointed"
"I Would for You"
"Various Methods of Escape"
"While I'm Still Here"
"Black Noise"
"Find My Way"


"Satellite" was cut because while it fits the album sonically, I believe that it is thematically out of place. "Running" is cut because it is a decent track, but it doesn't really say anything that the others do not. This leaves it at 12 tracks. One might even cut "Disappointed" and "In Two" if you really wanted to be ruthless. I like those tracks, but they would be the next to end up as B-sides as far as I am concerned.

I paid a lot of attention to how the songs flow into one another. "Eater of Dreams" works nicely before "Copy of a", and serves as a quiet interlude. Everything opens up the album as kind of a thesis - here is what the album is about - but also serves to say, "this is where my journey begins. I survived everything. Now what?" The story arc kind of ends at "While I'm Still Here" but now "Find My Way" serves as a coda - kind of like Hurt. An appeal and maybe a question to end the album. And it ends where it began - I have to every place. I have been to everywhere.

I feel blasphemous for posting this - like why should I know better than Trent and Atticus about the order of the album and the arc of the story, so take all this for what it is. It's just something I discovered that I enjoy.


I guess this is what we do when there is no NIN news or releases for a while...

[Max]

Oh, and on InTwo - starting at 2:57 - is that a sample of Hurt playing?! If you go to the end of Hurt (like 5:12) or so.... it sounds the SAME to me. Like he put that last part of hurt as a sample on a keyboard and just kept hitting it but only letting you hear a fraction of a second of it each time.

Maybe it just sounds similar, but it would make a lot of sense.

[botley]

Oh, and on InTwo - starting at 2:57 - is that a sample of Hurt playing?! If you go to the end of Hurt (like 5:12) or so.... it sounds the SAME to me. Like he put that last part of hurt as a sample on a keyboard and just kept hitting it but only letting you hear a fraction of a second of it each time.

Maybe it just sounds similar, but it would make a lot of sense.
I think it's a different synth, though superficially they do bear some resemblance. If you listen very closely the sound gets filtered all over the place and seems to build in intensity after the guitars re-enter. So, probably not just a single sample, but a continuous tone being manipulated through synthesis (possibly racks and racks of modular units).

[StockAvuryah]

@Max (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=6670) currently trying your tracklist. I added Satellite and Running between Everything and Came Back Haunted, and it works I think. Also weird for In Two to not be the climax at the tail of the album but it works. Great flow between all time low and the eater of dreams.

[Max]

@Max (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=6670) currently trying your tracklist. I added Satellite and Running between Everything and Came Back Haunted, and it works I think. Also weird for In Two to not be the climax at the tail of the album but it works. Great flow between all time low and the eater of dreams.

Oh cool! It just goes to show how much the arrangement of the tracks affects the experience and even the meaning of an album. Like editing a movie. A actually love satellite, it just feels more Year Zero in its content. But what a great album.

[d1stinct]

"While I'm Still Here" and "Black Noise" had me in awe last night. I guess it was my first full listen since I bought some new head phones, but wow, I can't stop thinking about listening to those two songs again.

[StockAvuryah]

"While I'm Still Here" and "Black Noise" had me in awe last night. I guess it was my first full listen since I bought some new head phones, but wow, I can't stop thinking about listening to those two songs again.

I always crave Branches/Bones after those. And then the rest of The Trilogy. And then the next NIN release. Thank you Black Noise.

[HWB]

Coming back to this album after all these years is interesting, it has aged incredibly well, years have done wonders for it, it sounds great and I can kind of see where all the connections to The Downward Spiral come from, even with its sound, it isn't distorted, loud, noisy as that album, but it has the same meliticousness, if that makes sense? Albums After Fragile and before Teeth were more "raw" with it sound, more stripped down, I am not calling those records bad by any means, but there was a change in direction, I feel like Hesitation Marks truly came back with that eye for detail which Fragile/Spiral are known for, with expansive atmospheric soundscapes which gave so much life to those two legendary albums. Does that make sense?

I know that Hesitation Marks was called "minimal" and in some ways, it isn't wrong destripctor to make, a lot of these songs start off that way but eventually build up to these really complex soundscapes or even just transform into entirely something else entirely, songs go through various of forms on this album, which is also kind of reminding me of Spiral or Fragile, I cannot recall from With Teeth to Slip songs being that way, there are some, like say "All The Love In The World". But I feel like almost every single song on Hesitation Marks is like that, even "Everything" which is the shortest song on here has a really cool expansive outro.

I'd like to copy-paste my RYM review, for my thoughts upon the record overall;

Hesitation Marks comes five years after The Slip and is the polar opposite to that album in every possible way, where The Slip was urgent, raw, guitar-heavy and noisy, Hesitation Marks is careful, layered, the guitar is the supporting element to the songs rather than being the main part of the show here.

NIN finds itself experimenting with grooves and other elements, which creates their most accessible album since With Teeth (https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/nine-inch-nails/with-teeth/), it is arguably their least rock-focused main album. It is the most subtle album, where almost every song begins very minimal and is built upon more and more until it becomes something completely else, in a way, each song feels like a journey where you find yourself in a different place from where you began.

There is a big focus on percussion, drum machines, the percussion work is some of the most impressive NIN ever had to offer. It feels as if the rest of the instruments are around them, creating feelings of claustrophobia. The guitar here, as previously noted, is mostly used to add more atmosphere to the songs, the best example of this can be seen on "Disappointed" where a swarming guitar enters ever so often.


Each song does its best to cover a different, new ground for the band, from "Copy Of A's" infectious EBM attack, All Time Low's funk and Everything's undeniable The Cure (https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/the-cure) influence. Even with all this, the album doesn't feel disjointed and each of these songs goes hand in hand, going into one another perfectly.

The album sounds absurdly crystal clear, incredibly polished while not feeling overproduced, which adds a lot to it due to how much under the surface there is to so many of these songs. You'll be finding new layers of sound upon many relistens.

Trent rarely screams, this is the album where he probably sings and whispers the most; there are no walls of noise here; this a subtle album where the feelings of anxiety take over rather than the ones of anger, the album is full of self-doubt and worries of what may be, could be, the haunting, reverbed sounds push this forward, feeling regret and shame covers most of this record. Even if the distortion is rarely seen here, something still feels inherently broken here, this isn't Trent's "upward-spiral" in any capacity as some would like you to believe. It is a dark album about being scared of going back to what you were and feeling the guilt of your past still lingering within your mind, no matter how many years have passed.

[slopesandsam]

Honestly, the only track that doesn't work for me is "Satellite" and that's probably due to how Year Zero the song feels in both a production standpoint and lyrically. Year Zero still remains the one Nine Inch Nails project that no matter how many times I want it to click for me it ... it never does.

Also, if there's a fan club for those who actually really love "Everything" - let me be a member, please. It's SO unlike anything within the rest of the album and I'll fully admit that the track doesn't belong on the record ... but it wears it's love for The Cure on it's sleeve and it's just a really enjoyable track. I think my admiration of similar sounding bands makes me enjoy the track as much as I do.

I'm the total opposite. I love Satellite - thought it should have been the radio single. Weirdly, I'm a huge fan of YZ (probably my third favourite NIN album behind TF and TDS), but I don't think Satellite is at all like anything off YZ, except the lyrics, kinda. Musically, it's completely different.

Everything, on the other hand, is a song I still find jarring whenever it comes on. I don't actually think the song is bad, I just think it's placement on the album is wrong. It would have been great as the opening track, I reckon.

HM overall is an album I liked right from the first listen. I'm not super taken with the first couple of tracks, they're a bit too traditionally poppy for my taste, but pretty much everything after Came Back Haunted is great. And yeah, I agree that a lot of it sounds like it could have fit comfortably on TF.

(Also, does anyone else really love the demos Trent plays on the "Trent Reznor In Conversation With..." thing? They're so great.)

[Substance242]

(Also, does anyone else really love the demos Trent plays on the "Trent Reznor In Conversation With..." thing? They're so great.)


Absolutely!

Fun fact: "HesitationMarks" is still the name of my WiFi. :-) (And NAS media server is "DeltaMachine" - Depeche Mode.)

[slopesandsam]

I saw someone mention on another thread that Trent has recently said that he isn't happy with HM. Is this true, and does anyone know the source?

[WorzelG]

I saw someone mention on another thread that Trent has recently said that he isn't happy with HM. Is this true, and does anyone know the source?
i don’t know where it was, but he said he doesn’t know who that guy who made it is anymore - (probably because Trump happened and maybe he felt he was resting on his laurels a bit? I don’t know). I still love HM but I certainly think there is something more fiery about the recent EPs and live performances. The Royal Festival Hall show is one of the top shows I've been to ever (maybe THE top one)

[Magnetic]

It's from an interview posted on nin.com if you scroll down far enough - Trent Reznor in conversation with Lizzy Goodman:

OBVIOUSLY YOU’VE EXPLORED VIOLENCE AND AGGRESSION BEFORE, BUT THIS FEELS LIKE A RETURN TO THAT WAVELENGTH. AND THE SHOWS YOU PLAYED LAST YEAR FOLLOWED SUIT. THEY WERE SPARE AND LOUD AND PENETRATING. I’VE HEARD YOU TALK BEFORE ABOUT THE CHALLENGE OF REACHING PEOPLE THROUGH THE POLARIZED HAZE OF ONLINE LIFE, I WONDER IF YOU SEE NINE INCH NAILS, AND PARTICULARLY THIS MORE AGGRESSIVE SIDE OF NINE INCH NAILS, AS AN ANTIDOTE TO ALL THAT, AS A KIND OF EXISTENTIAL GREASE CUTTER. IS THAT WHERE THE NEED TO BE EXTRA ABRASIVE IS COMING FROM?

I THINK THE IMPETUS FOR THIS TRILOGY … GOD, I SOUNDS LIKE SPINAL TAP. LOOK, WHEN I THINK BACK TO THE LAST PROPER ALBUM, HESITATION MARKS, I DON’T REALLY KNOW WHO THAT GUY IS. LIKE, MY HEAD ISN’T THERE ANYMORE. AND IT WASN’T THAT LONG AGO. WE WERE JUST INTO SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I’M MAKING SET LISTS FOR SHOWS COMING UP AND THERE’S VERY LITTLE ON THERE FROM THAT ALBUM BECAUSE I DON’T FEEL IT RIGHT NOW. WHEREAS, I WAS REALLY DOWN ON WITH TEETH FOR A LONG TIME BUT NOW, FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. NOT THAT I LISTEN TO IT THAT MUCH BUT IT POPPED ON THE OTHER DAY AND I THOUGHT, FUCK, I FORGOT I EVEN WROTE THAT SONG.

[WorzelG]

It’s never really struck me before but it must be really weird being an artist of whatever description and trying to evaluate your own work.

[Haysey_Draws]

i don’t know where it was, but he said he doesn’t know who that guy who made it is anymore - (probably because Trump happened and maybe he felt he was resting on his laurels a bit? I don’t know). I still love HM but I certainly think there is something more fiery about the recent EPs and live performances. The Royal Festival Hall show is one of the top shows I've been to ever (maybe THE top one)

I didn't realise you were at that show as well!

[Haysey_Draws]

It does feel like HM came from a more optimistic place when it was written, it's still dark, but a funky kind of dark. Then the world SHAT itself and we were all reminded how fucking awful the worst people can be. Just thinking back to 2013-2014...things were OK. Trent was probably coming from the same place, things were OK, he was starting a family, work was good, the hate on soical media was manageable, the bad stuff was easily dealt with...now 5 short years later :eek:

[r_z]

Yeah, to have anything to say on the album he even had to think back to his TDS era self. Or so he said.

[Erneuert]

i don’t know where it was, but he said he doesn’t know who that guy who made it is anymore - (probably because Trump happened and maybe he felt he was resting on his laurels a bit? I don’t know). I still love HM but I certainly think there is something more fiery about the recent EPs and live performances. The Royal Festival Hall show is one of the top shows I've been to ever (maybe THE top one)

Ah, the gig where we thought the show was going to be The Fragile in full and we got trolled with Terrible Lie after The Wretched.

[snaapz]

Rob Sheridan said once, "who said it's a happy album?"


'Everything' might, on the surface, make it seem like things are cheerful... but even that song is somewhat troublesome.


I think it's a miserable album filled with unhappiness, confusion, loss, misdirection, mental health issues, etc.... Also, the album title is a term used to describe the action of creating self inflicted wounds; tempting suicide.


This is not an I'm the happiest I've ever been album.

[eversonpoe]

It’s never really struck me before but it must be really weird being an artist of whatever description and trying to evaluate your own work.

i listen to my own music a lot. not out of narcissism, but because i both enjoy my work, and because i am constantly trying to learn from it so i don't repeat myself or my "mistakes"

i know thom yorke has said he can't stand listening to radiohead (which seems so odd to me) but i'm sure that's a rare thing.

[BRoswell]

i know thom yorke has said he can't stand listening to radiohead (which seems so odd to me) but i'm sure that's a rare thing.

I don't think that's all that rare actually. It really just depends on where someone's head was when making an album and if they've had to listen to or play certain parts of it for a long time. Personally, I don't listen to what I make after it's out unless I really, really like what I've done, which is very rare.

[eachpassingphase]

When I listen to Hesitation Marks now, it's funny to me how so much current pop music sounds like a simpler version of this album. There's lots of moody, softer vocals with atmospheric beats and instrumentals on the radio at the moment. I could see somebody like a Lana Del Rey singing "Find My Way" or Billie Eilish performing "Satellite" and it seeming very natural for them. And while "Welcome Oblivion" doesn't sound the same as Hesitation Marks, I get that same feeling with HTDA right now too. I almost feel like WO would do far better commercially if it was released for the first time now. I'm sure commercial success no longer concerns Trent at this point in his career, but it's still interesting to think about.

While many of younger pop acts aren't likely to be familiar enough with Trent's later work to consider Hesitation Marks an influence, I'm sure their production folks are familiar enough with something like HM to be influenced by it.

[laci]

And don't forget how cool it was when every format had different artwork.
The HM-era was great. So many good memories. Saw them in Milan (2013), Copenhagen and Vienna (2014) and those gigs were brutal.

[brotha52]

Happy 7th birthday. Well at least for the digital release that dropped today 7 years ago.
Probably the most polarizing release in the catalog. At the time I just saw it as the hiphop album to contrast the recently released industrial album Yeezus.

[sonic_discord]

Probably the most polarizing release in the catalog.

I still don't understand why it's so polarizing for so many. IMO it's definitely a better "album" than The Slip (not to throw shade, I love that album too). You're right though, people seemed to either love it or hate it. Personally, I think Year Zero and the EP trilogy are superior, but it holds its own against albums like With Teeth and The Slip.

[eversonpoe]

i haven't actually re-listened to it for a while but my feeling about it is that half of it is really good, a third of it is fine, and the two songs people seem to like the most ("find my way" and "while i'm still here") are my least favorite songs trent has created outside of "capital G" (but i LOVE "black noise" so i accept that "while i'm still here" has to exist to lead into it).

i also still prefer Welcome Oblivion over Hesitation Marks, which i only say because they came out a couple months apart.

[HWB]

I still don't understand why it's so polarizing for so many. IMO it's definitely a better "album" than The Slip (not to throw shade, I love that album too). You're right though, people seemed to either love it or hate it. Personally, I think Year Zero and the EP trilogy are superior, but it holds its own against albums like With Teeth and The Slip.
I still think that Hesitation Marks thus far is the only record Trent has released that can rival The Fragile in terms of the sond design and quality of the production, that alone is huge, in general the album's incredibly varied, dancey, fun and angsty. almost every song has so many layers and many things happening all at once with heavy emotional weight being on almost all the songs present.

It's a really strong record, not NIN's best but it is still incredible.

[neorev]

I still don't understand why it's so polarizing for so many. IMO it's definitely a better "album" than The Slip (not to throw shade, I love that album too). You're right though, people seemed to either love it or hate it. Personally, I think Year Zero and the EP trilogy are superior, but it holds its own against albums like With Teeth and The Slip.

I am a huge electronic music lover of all kinds. Been listening to NIN since PHM. I really loved the trilogy, especially Not The Actual Events. I'm also a big With Teeth fan. You can't top TDS and Broken. Not The Actual Events is the closest Trent got to the classic Broken/TDS/TF/WT that I love. I haven't hated anything Trent has put out. But there is something about the Hesitation Marks/Year Zero/Welcome Oblivion sound that just leaves me a little cold. These albums sound similar to me. I just don't find them as edgy as With Teeth or Not The Actual Events, which has that chaos I love with NIN. HM/YZ/WO feel a bit more meandering to me. I do love tracks like My Violent Heart, In This Twlight, On A Wing, Satellite, In Two. I do wish the drums were livened up a bit. I love drums and beats, but I find the beats on HM/YZ/WO don't develop much and kinda stay the same. I thought Hesitation Marks tracks sounded way better with the Tension tour live band. The live band gave the tracks a breath of life and helped break up the monotonous electronic drums with some live drums. Again, they're not bad albums, but not my go-tos. If someone threw it on, I wouldn't complain. I just don't find myself compelled to go back to it as much. I do find that I enjoy it more when I'm playing it on a decent system with subs.

[acrid avid jam shred]

Woah, 7 years? Time flies. I still remember picking up the CD on release day and listening to it non-stop. The back half of the record has some of the coolest NIN tracks ever I think, like I Would For You and Various Methods of Escape are brilliant and both explode with intensity and emotion. Running is stupendously underrated as well. I love its tense vibe, Trent's vocals, and those scratchy guitars. All Time Low is a classic modern NIN song I reckon, it's so layered and funky!

[HWB]

I am a huge electronic music lover of all kinds. Been listening to NIN since PHM. I really loved the trilogy, especially Not The Actual Events. I'm also a big With Teeth fan. You can't top TDS and Broken. Not The Actual Events is the closest Trent got to the classic Broken/TDS/TF/WT that I love. I haven't hated anything Trent has put out. But there is something about the Hesitation Marks/Year Zero/Welcome Oblivion sound that just leaves me a little cold. These albums sound similar to me. I just don't find them as edgy as With Teeth or Not The Actual Events, which has that chaos I love with NIN. HM/YZ/WO feel a bit more meandering to me. I do love tracks like My Violent Heart, In This Twlight, On A Wing, Satellite, In Two. I do wish the drums were livened up a bit. I love drums and beats, but I find the beats on HM/YZ/WO don't develop much and kinda stay the same. I thought Hesitation Marks tracks sounded way better with the Tension tour live band. The live band gave the tracks a breath of life and helped break up the monotonous electronic drums with some live drums. Again, they're not bad albums, but not my go-tos. If someone threw it on, I wouldn't complain. I just don't find myself compelled to go back to it as much. I do find that I enjoy it more when I'm playing it on a decent system with subs.
I don't know, Year Zero feels far heavier to me than With_Teeth, Slip also feels heavier than With_Teeth in many ways.

[MrLobster]

In a lot of ways, I see it as a follow up to TDS (tonally, to me, it works).

[HWB]

In a lot of ways, I see it as a follow up to TDS (tonally, to me, it works).
Same and the wa ythe songs are structured also reminds me of TDS quite a bit, not with the aggression as HM doesn't really have much of that, but I can really see how it can be seen as a follow-up to it.

[neorev]

I don't know, Year Zero feels far heavier to me than With_Teeth, Slip also feels heavier than With_Teeth in many ways.

I don't know, "heavy" is not the word that comes to mind when thinking of Year Zero. It has moments. I didn't mention The Slip in my comments because it's actually an album that has a rawness and heaviness to it. It's more in the vein of With Teeth than Year Zero or Hesitation Marks. I prefer The Slip over Year Zero, Hesitation Marks, Welcome Oblivion.

[Magnetic]

Maybe I'm the weirdo here, but tonally HM does not match up to TDS.
I like HM for a few songs, and I chalk it up to decent, but lesser than WT and YZ. I don't get why people compare it to TDS, because it feels ALL over the place whereas the TDS was a much more concise concept album.

I think the songs on HM are mostly ok, but Running annoys the hell outta me (the guitar riffs - seriously?) and I Would For You feels like this grandiose Fragile-Era-Esc song that just falls flat. The music is there, but lyrically it just isn't up to par. Everytime I listen to it, it just feels hollow.

And I say this fully admitting there are songs on this record I really like: Various Methods of Escape is a fav. In Two/ While I'm Still Here/ Black noise are great.
While I don't mind Disappointed/ Everything /Satellite - they disrupt the album, and people saying this is a cohesive TDS follow up to me just does not make sense me.

I guess I don't get people saying HM was this follow up to the TDS, and I know some interviews alluded to that, but I disagree. I never understood the framing of HM in that way. Perhaps that's because I never felt that TDS needed a second act. PHM never needed one, TDS doesn't, and the Fragile doesn't. For that matter, WT and YZ were all great in their own rights. I don't get why HM was tacked onto TDS....let it be it's own thing. I suppose that was my ish. I also think the Slip is underrated while HM is lauded above it.

[neorev]

Maybe I'm the weirdo here, but tonally HM does not match up to TDS.
I like HM for a few songs, and I chalk it up to decent, but lesser than WT and YZ. I don't get why people compare it to TDS, because it feels ALL over the place whereas the TDS was a much more concise concept album.

I think the songs on HM are mostly ok, but Running annoys the hell outta me (the guitar riffs - seriously?) and I Would For You feels like this grandiose Fragile-Era-Esc song that just falls flat. The music is there, but lyrically it just isn't up to par. Everytime I listen to it, it just feels hollow.

And I say this fully admitting there are songs on this record I really like: Various Methods of Escape is a fav. In Two/ While I'm Still Here/ Black noise are great.
While I don't mind Disappointed/ Everything /Satellite - they disrupt the album, and people saying this is a cohesive TDS follow up to me just does not make sense me.

I guess I don't get people saying HM was this follow up to the TDS, and I know some interviews alluded to that, but I disagree. I never understood the framing of HM in that way. Perhaps that's because I never felt that TDS needed a second act. PHM never needed one, TDS doesn't, and the Fragile doesn't. For that matter, WT and YZ were all great in their own rights. I don't get why HM was tacked onto TDS....let it be it's own thing. I suppose that was my ish. I also think the Slip is underrated while HM is lauded above it.

+1
100% agree with you here.

For me, the only thing that connects HM to TDS is the artwork of Russell Mills. It's like saying The Fragile is the sequel/second act to Pretty Hate Machine. They're miles apart tonally. We all learned that Fight Club did not need a sequel. Neither did TDS. As much as I love Mills' artwork, the TDS connection felt very forced to me. And I do not find HM to flow like TDS does. HM feels a bit more slapped together than a complete journey from front to back. It doesn't have that journey feel like TDS. I find the whole TDS sequel/second act angle for HM hurt HM (no pun intended) more than helped it. I would have rather it just stood as its own thing.

[katara]

Hesitation Marks was never intended to be a direct sequel to The Downward Spiral. Its origin was Trent looking back with 2013 eyes at that album, reflecting on it and the person he was then. It's a follow-up of sorts... just not a 'part two'.


"I felt very aware that it's 20 years later, and I'm still that guy. I know that guy, and I feel for him. I don't resent him, I don't miss him. But how would things feel on the other side of that now, in a much more stable life place, mentally and physically, and with a new family? The incentive has changed. It's not about, 'I'm going to kill myself if I don't get this out of my head.' But the excavation and the architecture behind it, the motivation behind it, is similar."
"For some reason, when I started working more on Hesitation Marks, I started thinking back romantically about who I was when I was writing The Downward Spiral. I was looking back on who I was then and who I am now and how things have turned out, for better or worse. That was the air the new record was born in. I was looking at the other side of how I was not always honest about who I was in the '90s — and I knew I wasn't being honest — and if you sprinkle those negative feelings with some drugs and alcohol, it's usually not a recipe for success."

In the self-interview included with the iTunes Deluxe Edition of Hesitation Marks, Reznor spoke of the intentional link that was made between the artwork of the two albums:


"Now in terms of making that connection more literal to Downward Spiral, the choice of reaching out to Russell Mills, later in the process, to actually provide the artwork was certainly a conscious trail of breadcrumbs. The choice of using the same font — we were making the connection here."

[Magnetic]

Follow-up/ redux/ second act - whatever. I don't feel a connection to the TDS at all.

AND, I will preface that I had been on a NIN hiatus - so I wasn't rabidly consuming info about the album. I gave it a listen in 2014-2015 because I knew a new album had been released. I listened to it with mixed reviews...decided there were some songs I liked, some I didn't. And it certainly didn't feel cohesive to me.

It wasn't until 2019 that I read those interviews about HM and TDS being referenced in some capacity, and I just thought WTF? I had experienced HM independently, and I thought it was a stand-alone, albeit weaker album like WT and YZ.

I guess that's why I scrunch up my face a bit about HM. I don't get the association of TDS with it. Just my opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[BRoswell]

I think some people take the association with Downward Spiral too literally. I know at the time there were a few people who thought it was going to be a return to that kind of sound, and were very disappointed when it turned out not to be. To me, the album is an inversion of The Downward Spiral, not a continuation. It's a reflection of that world through the lens of time and distance. It's like looking at old photos of yourself and thinking "Wow. Is that what I was like? Where was my head at during that time? Am I still that person in some ways?". I think Russell Mills' artwork also enhances that feeling. It makes me think of something that has been left behind in the elements for a while that you rediscover.

Unfortunately, once you attach anything to a classic album, there's always going to be disappointment. Is Hesitation Marks as good as The Downward Spiral? I don't think so, but it's interesting in its own way and deserves another look.

[botley]

Is Scary Monsters a sequel to Space Oddity? No, but there are definite connections.

[SchwarzerAbt]

There definitely are connections. Starting with the name Hesitation Marks which alludes to scars from wrist cuts that were just not deep enough to 'get it done'. If I remember it right the album could be seen as a tale from the Downward Spiral's character at a later age. He somehow made it through and is now at a different stage in life where things seem to work out fine. But his older self is still in the back and he is reminded of this constantly by his scars. At his core he is still not happy, but everything is more subdued and he has become emotionless.

At least that is my interpretation of the album. Hence it is not as raw and has a cleaner feel to it. Tbe artwork by Russell Mills is of course tbe most obvious nod to the original album. And that too is not as ugly, but still very bland and even darker in tone.

[zeegrizzle]

Considering the lyrics and Trent's statements for Year Zero and Hesitation Marks, I really see the order of NIN's story going as PHM, Broken, TDS/HM, TF, WT, TS, The Trilogy then YZ.
It just works out the best that way to me and makes the most sense when it comes to the flow of the story order (each album is basically it's own chapter).

Order of release for each album and their sounds shouldn't be taken so literally for considering the order of the whole story (although this order "sounds" like it flows too, at least to my ears). It doesn't have to be that way anyways, it's not like that's a rule or something for each album that comes out after another to have to sound like it "flows" into one another to continue or add on to the story, even though Trent sort of does this anyways just like all the other greats like Pink Floyd and such. The order of the albums for the "story" could be just as much of a mystery as the song lyrics and story itself, especially considering Year Zero and Hesitation Marks. I'm not saying it should be listened to in this order, just saying HM could be looked at or seen as a sort of flash back album in a sense while YZ is a flash forward album. And I see Trent further experimenting with this in The Trilogy. NTAE was Trent flirting with that "past" path, AV flirting with the "present" path and BW flirting with the "future" path that they could take NIN with. Anyways just my opinion.

[HWB]

While Hesitation Marks was never meant to be a direct sequel TDS but rather an introspection about its era, I still think that you can intepret it that way if you so desire and it works rather well.


There definitely are connections. Starting with the name Hesitation Marks which alludes to scars from wrist cuts that were just not deep enough to 'get it done'. If I remember it right the album could be seen as a tale from the Downward Spiral's character at a later age. He somehow made it through and is now at a different stage in life where things seem to work out fine. But his older self is still in the back and he is reminded of this constantly by his scars. At his core he is still not happy, but everything is more subdued and he has become emotionless.

At least that is my interpretation of the album. Hence it is not as raw and has a cleaner feel to it. Tbe artwork by Russell Mills is of course tbe most obvious nod to the original album. And that too is not as ugly, but still very bland and even darker in tone.

This theory in particular is really cool, pretty cool reason for the music to be sounding the way t does.

[zeegrizzle]

Hesitation Marks fits (story-wise) in-between TDS and TF (with Hurt going into The Eater Of Dreams and Black Noise going into Somewhat Damaged), but you can look at it in either way really. You can have it sit in-between TDS and TF and act as a "flash forward" album (like YZ) or you can just look at HM's place in the discography and see it as a "flash back" album. Both ways work.

[HWB]

I think this NIN album has the strongest synths/drum machines work, a lot of people say that they sound all the same, yet there are so many varieties of them throughout this record, I don't think real life drums can do this justice, real drums are nice but they don't fit to me to this very Electronic record (Even though it has a lot of use of guitars).

[WorzelG]

I think this NIN album has the strongest synths/drum machines work, a lot of people say that they sound all the same, yet there are so many varieties of them throughout this record, I don't think real life drums can do this justice, real drums are nice but they don't fit to me to this very Electronic record (Even though it has a lot of use of guitars).
I agree especially as I much prefer the ‘festival’ version of Copy of a rather than the drum based one on the Tension tour

[Alpha 60]

After the TDS, NIN’s lyrical and conceptual content became saturated with duality, doubles and echoes. You see it in TR’s narrative imagination but also it seemed like in real life he was losing himself to fragmented versions/identities. I think this really comes to life in WT, partly as a very real way of therapeutically reclaiming a real identity outside of NIN, but this also became an opportunity to approach NIN and TR’s fictional imaginative identity inside of NIN as some kind of split from reality but still a real living breathing thing. TR often refers to his past self as “that guy” or when performing saying he teleports back into that person who wrote that song.
I think he has allowed himself to explore this and take it as far as he wants to go with it. It seems like some of what becomes NIN starts with TR in real life have thought experiments or soul searching about his real self and NIN as a musical act. Those explorations then seem to manifest into the imaginary flesh of NIN and TR as concepts within a narrative world. So, we end up with TR’s doubles or echoes or identities and references to NIN within NIN.
Hesitation Marks and the Trilogy took this to a whole new level. Since we are talking about HM in relation to TDS I will focus on that. I think HM is something like Lynch’s Lost Highway. In Lost Highway, you have the idea of psychic transference manifest into flesh and blood reality. Something has happened and now a person so desperately imagines or longs for something different that the person becomes something different, only to end up being haunted by your true self and never being able to escape the momentum of that true self.
HM to me, seems to be about real-life TR thinking about what if that version of himself had taken a different path creatively and a different path within the concept of TDS. This is huge speculation, but, based on what he has said, it seems maybe be feels that the metaphysical thing that compelled him to create the artwork that became TDS was sort of always supposed to be that way. And the fallout of that was in real life TR losing his identity, becoming a version of himself he didn’t like and struggling with addiction. Hesitation Marks is created then out of an idea that collapses in on itself because it is not what was supposed to be. So like in Lost Highway, and I think especially in the two opening and closing tracks, the character in HM and the setting of the album is not meant to be. The world of HM is sort of a plea that whatever the imputes of creation that turned into TDS could instead have been something else. And, maybe to, in real life, TR would not have to have lost himself the way he did.
And I think this is sort of a literal thought experiment for TR the person and for NIN as expression. The person within HM is a copy and does not have much time. A sort of split from the version of TR trapped in the creation of TDS. And, in real life TR is always sort of questioning his place in the world. Am I always going to be a part of the guy who made the TDS or can I be an adult with a family and be that guy too? Those things existing at the same time and the insecurities and questions of who we really are. I think HM ends up telling us that the thing, the muse, the conduit of art, that made real life TR create TDS was sort of destine to create the artwork and the finale version of real life TR. HM splits off or looks back and gives us an alternative, but it devours itself because it was not supposed to be that way.
We are always haunted by echoes or ghosts of our past. We can think of how things might have been, but they were not that way. And whatever it was that created the momentum for the way things were then expressed in a way that they had to. This idea or thought experiment revealed itself through HM in many different real-life ways and narrative creative ways. I even think maybe things as simple as what type of music TR thought he could or should make based on the success and sound of TDS.
For further links to Lost Highway, there is Lynch’s video for CBH, which is very reminiscent of and even looks like the character in Lost Highway during his transfer from or back into his true self.
Sorry this is so long; I will finish this with more movie references. I have never thought TDS was very literal in its narrative or concept. I have always thought TDS was way more Cronenberg’s Videodrome than Scorsese’s Taxi Driver. So, for me, both TDS and HM are not just literal stories of a guy self-destructing or a guy RUNNING from that self-destruction guy.

[zeegrizzle]

I think the biggest hint that HM is a parallel version of TDS is the track-list similarities.

And the same thing happening within The Trilogy. The three different track-lists within The Trilogy are parallel as well and work as different paths or versions of NIN during that era. I always saw Over And Out as sort of the credits track to the whole Trilogy, being that 6th track and sticking out compared to the other two EP's. Sounds like it would work as a great credits song too.

[katara]

So, for me, both TDS and HM are not just literal stories of a guy self-destructing or a guy RUNNING from that self-destruction guy.
I still stand by my interpretation of TDS in which a dude buys a bunch of pigs so he can have sex with them, then moves on to iguanas later.

[eversonpoe]

I still stand by my interpretation of TDS in which a dude buys a bunch of pigs so he can have sex with them, then moves on to iguanas later.

https://i.gifer.com/KEwD.gif

[r_z]

Album grew on me.

Still can't get over the lyrics for ATL and CBH, still don't care for Everything, Black Noise and The Eater...

But I also love the production, I love the guitar contributions of Belew & Co. and I love those instrumental demos from that "In Conversation with.." Interview.

[kaydraven]

This was the album that got me into NIN again. I wasn't a huge fan of The Slip and I didn't like Ghost I - IV at all, but when I heard Came Back Haunted and Copy of A, they just hit me in the gut. I was like fuck yes! And I loved the rest of the album too. I also like the connection it has to TDS. I have to admit, Everything threw me for a loop, but I dig it. It's one of those songs I have to be in the mood for. HM isn't the best NIN release, but it's still a really solid album.

[Substance242]

Everytime I hear "Copy of a" I am amazed around 3:30 how it calms down, I probably mentioned this before, it's not just fade down of tracks. Reminds me of "Field of dreams" movie characters disappearing into cornfield - almost real but not completely, wait something was not normal there, what exactly happened?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PBtP8wC5Ng

[neorev]

Love the Tension live version of In Two with the band and back up vocalists

[Neon]

All this talk about HM reminded me that I was looking for many years to get the elusive remix of Disappointed by Future Funk Squad. Finally, I’m glad to announce that we can finally listen to it with an option to download in lossless format at this address: https://futurefunksquad.bandcamp.com/track/disappointed-ffs-rmx-nin-rmx-s4 . If you feel cheap you can also get it for free, but that’s up to you… Enjoy!

[spahn]

All this talk about HM reminded me that I was looking for many years to get the elusive remix of Disappointed by Future Funk Squad. Finally, I’m glad to announce that we can finally listen to it with an option to download in lossless format at this address: https://futurefunksquad.bandcamp.com/track/disappointed-ffs-rmx-nin-rmx-s4 . If you feel cheap you can also get it for free, but that’s up to you… Enjoy!

Thanks! I updated the NINwiki page as well to reflect this. https://www.nin.wiki/Disappointed

[r_z]

Is this 'official' or fan made? What's the story behind it?

[TheBang]

Is this 'official' or fan made? What's the story behind it?
Sounds like it was officially commissioned (https://www.talenthouse.com/item/2013320/b069ba65), but unused.

[sonic_discord]

I can't believe it's been an entire fucking DECADE already, but Hesitation Marks is 10 years old today. Giving it a spin to mark the occasion. I'm sure it's because of the time of year it came out and when I was digesting it, but this album always makes me think of Fall and I've always thought it has a bit of a Halloween vibe to it. This also means that the other album I was obsessed with in 2013—...Like Clockwork by Queens of the Stone Age—is also 10 years old. Time flies (a little too fast lately).

EDIT: Looks like I may have jumped the gun by a few days (the correct date of September 3, 2013 is even in the title of the thread. Duuuur), but in my defense, Wikipedia lists the release date as August 30, 3013, so it's their fault. Also, it leaked early, so most of us WERE listening to it by now. But to further drive home the point of how long ago it was, Hesitation Marks came out back when new music was still released on Tuesdays.

[trollmanen]

I think it was released to streaming services early due to the leak, so that's probably where the various dates are coming from.

[sonic_discord]

I think it was released to streaming services early due to the leak, so that's probably where the various dates are coming from.

Yes, you are correct. I was here reading all of the comments back then, but it was during my lurking phase (I was a member of the old ETS that crashed and hadn't created a new login yet), so I didn't participate in the discussion. But I remember that.

[bobbie solo]

I can't believe it's been an entire fucking DECADE already, but Hesitation Marks is 10 years old today. Giving it a spin to mark the occasion. I'm sure it's because of the time of year it came out and when I was digesting it, but this album always makes me think of Fall and I've always thought it has a bit of a Halloween vibe to it. This also means that the other album I was obsessed with in 2013—...Like Clockwork by Queens of the Stone Age—is also 10 years old. Time flies (a little too fast lately).

EDIT: Looks like I may have jumped the gun by a few days (the correct date of September 3, 2013 is even in the title of the thread. Duuuur), but in my defense, Wikipedia lists the release date as August 30, 3013, so it's their fault. Also, it leaked early, so most of us WERE listening to it by now. But to further drive home the point of how long ago it was, Hesitation Marks came out back when new music was still released on Tuesdays.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om0lCG1RjHQ&ab_channel=FelipeNIN

I feel like I talk about this song the most of anyone on ETS. It needs to become a live staple. Best song on HM other than maybe Copy of A.

[Deacon Blackfire]

For my money that would be In Two. I know a number of people including you love VMOE but I've always felt it was solid but not standout. Hesitation Marks is a good album but it's definitely at its most stale and inconsistent in its middle (roughly), from Disappointed through I Would For You, at least in my opinion. Definitely a worthwhile release though.

Can't believe it has been just about ten years since it was released. Boy I feel old and unaccomplished!

[poinoup]

Co-sign on "VMOE." Twas awesome to hear live back in the day. Actually might be my top NIN song now, which is craziness.

[Alpha 60]

I was moving into my current house the day it leaked. And I was trying to have have my priorities in order to everyone around me that day.
But I was listening to individule songs on YouTube throughout the day whenever I had a chance.
I Would For You was a standout for me and still one of favorite NIN songs.
Weirdly or thankfully, the album does not remind me of the move in because it had become my go to shovel snow song.
The first winter in the house the album was still fresh and I listened to it while shoveling snow.
And now it's a funny tradition. I actually enjoy shoveling snow if I have plenty of time and it's not like life threatening outside.
Something about stopping for a breather in winter with 6 inches of snow on the ground at dusk and Find My Way comes on.
I like all the songs but do agree with some that it is maybe not as cohesive as it could be.
But I do like some of the weird choices and on it and it def sounds different than other NIN albums.
And in 4 months I'm sure I will be playing it a few times through the winter.

[allegate]

All this talk about HM reminded me that I was looking for many years to get the elusive remix of Disappointed by Future Funk Squad. Finally, I’m glad to announce that we can finally listen to it with an option to download in lossless format at this address: https://futurefunksquad.bandcamp.com/track/disappointed-ffs-rmx-nin-rmx-s4 . If you feel cheap you can also get it for free, but that’s up to you… Enjoy!
Apparently this was a limited option as it's down now.

[shagg_187]

Apparently this was a limited option as it's down now.

FFS also had a really awesome remix of HLAH for sale.

Sadly both are gone, but happily they're available to listen on SoundCloud. HLAH is an absolute Banger and The Crystal Method plays it on his set often.

https://m.soundcloud.com/futurefunksquad/nin-hlh-ffs-rmx

Disappointed: https://m.soundcloud.com/futurefunksquad/disappointed-ffs-remix-128kps

[allegate]

thanks for that, can't wait to listen.

[ecirb]

I have Disappointed in lossless if anyone is interested. Would love to get a hold of HLAH in lossless as well if anyone out there has it.

[sonic_discord]

I feel like I talk about this song the most of anyone on ETS. It needs to become a live staple. Best song on HM other than maybe Copy of A.


Co-sign on "VMOE." Twas awesome to hear live back in the day. Actually might be my top NIN song now, which is craziness.

+1 for Various Methods of Escape! It's probably my favorite track on the album, although In Two, All Time Low, and Satellite are close runner-ups. I also agree that they should drop Copy of A (I don't dislike it, I've just seen it many times) in favor of bringing VMOE back into the rotation.

[Khrz]

I also agree that they should drop Copy of A (I don't dislike it, I've just seen it many times) in favor of bringing VMOE back into the rotation.

+1 for VMOE too.
Copy of A is fine, it's just that it's just another NIN single, like Less Than, The Beginning of the End, Discipline, The Hand That Feeds... Not only are those tracks pretty disposable after a short while IMO, but there's already Came Back Haunted on this album

[ryanmcfly]

This album (and subsequent shows) reaffirmed NIN as my favorite band in a point in my life where I wasn’t sure they were still my favorite. I remember seeing the tweet from Trent with the pitchfork article that said NIN returns. Can remember how excited I was when I was sitting in my 8am comparative politics class. This album is probably my third favorite album. Love every track on it. While I’m Still Here, Various Methods of Escape, and Came Back Haunted are probably my favorites on there. Additionally, Came Back Haunted is my wife’s most hated NIN song to this day.

[sonic_discord]

Came Back Haunted is my wife’s most hated NIN song to this day.

My wife likes Only and Copy of A, but she HATES Shit Mirror (she likes to make fun of the name, too) and the ending of The Background World.

[allegate]

I have Disappointed in lossless if anyone is interested. Would love to get a hold of HLAH in lossless as well if anyone out there has it.
looking around I was able to seek them both out.

*winkwink*

[gorast]

I still simply love this album. I feel like the art direction was a little gimmicky, with the multiple covers and the comprehensive TDS callbacks that permeated every part of the album's visuals, but what ultimately matters is the music, and I feel like the vibe of this album remains really interesting and distinct from the rest of the discography. Year Zero's probably the closest considering the emphasis on electronic elements, but even then, Year Zero's a really dour album, and HM just...isn't, I guess? It's not like it's a happy, upbeat record, but I think it's the least oppressive-feeling NIN album in that regard, and I really jive with that feeling. Copy of a, All Time Low, VMOE, While I'm Still Here...all classics, in my book. Can't believe it's been ten years...

[wizfan]

Happy birthday, HM!

[jmtd]

Ten years since Everything!? Time flies. Just over a year since it’s live debut though.

[MrLobster]

Okay, you convinced me to listen to it again today on the kinda loud side... I still my opinion about it as posted a decade ago.

I'm on All Time Low right now... really vibin' with it.

[Wretchedest]

Man. 10 years for this one feels crazy

[scorpiusdiamond]

this album came out at a tumultuous point in my life, so it barbs occasionally on relistens, but goddamn if it wasn’t my favourite for a while. will have a dove today too

[SM Rollinger]

this album came out at a tumultuous point in my life, so it barbs occasionally on relistens, but goddamn if it wasn’t my favourite for a while. will have a dove today too

Same, I was at the tail end of a 14 year relationship with my ex, and I was in a really dark place. Stuck in an apartment I couldn't afford and a dead end job. Just generally miserable, trying to ignore the world with video games.

Things are much, much better now. I have really moved on with my life. It's been a long time since I've given this a compleat listen, I think I'll do just that today.

[BRoswell]

I still like the album, and I'm glad it helped pave the way for what became the EP trilogy.

Oh, and I still like Everything.

[firewlker]

I was 17 when it was announced that NIN was back and a new album was coming.

Although I already enjoyed the 'industrial' ecosystem for years, it was a time that I was more of a "wannabe-in-the-80's hard rock" teenager that was slowly changing to a somehow "goth" or whatever you wanna call it. My wardrobe went almost all black and the sneakers gave their place to leather boots lol.

Still loving this album btw.

[Tiger_Stealth]

I love Hesitation Marks so much. Even songs that I didn't like that much like Disappointed and Everything sound so good to me now. I feel like no NIN album has as many layers going on as this one (I'm know I'm probably wrong about that but you know what I mean).

[tony.parente]

Bonkers it's been a decade since the last real NIN album.

[ghostaustin]

Bonkers it's been a decade since the last real NIN album.

I think there was some discussion a few years back about Bad Witch being a real album, and something about an entire cock.

But semantics aside, yeah, I'd love a new hour of songs with vocals!

On topic: HM took a bit to grow on me, but now I love all the layers and rhythms and grooves. Everything still rips, and it's always ripped

[explodey]

Just noticed the Trent Reznor In Conversation With... track is on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/track/2X2jlRbkKEZSPLT33kJth2?si=1bcd6601c5244803) (in the UK, at least). Don't recall having seen it there before.

[Erneuert]

Bonkers it's been a decade since the last real NIN album.

I'm running out of ways to keep on hiding this
I'm running out of places I can hide from this

*chik-chew—chick-chew* … and so on.

[TheBang]

Just noticed the Trent Reznor In Conversation With... track is on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/track/2X2jlRbkKEZSPLT33kJth2?si=1bcd6601c5244803) (in the UK, at least). Don't recall having seen it there before.
It was mentioned earlier that it appears that a 10-year distribution deal for the album with Columbia Records had recently expired, and so Hesitation Marks was reissued on all the digital services directly by Null Corp, and they went with the Deluxe Edition with all the bonus tracks. This also fixed digital availability in regions that previously had issues with it like Canada.