Game of Thrones - Spoilers

[sweeterthan]

But so is Jon/Aegon.

Unless he takes more from his Stark half.

Jon was raised a stark and while he was probably emotionally abused by Caitlyn’s coldness he was not emotionally and physically abused the way dany was by her brother.

[ryanmcfly]

Big deal, I say that every day.

Well it kind of just looks like you're just ignoring the evidence that this was a direction that her character could go then.

[marodi]

Jon was raised a stark and while he was probably emotionally abused by Caitlyn’s coldness he was not emotionally and physically abused the way dany was by her brother.

Then again, it is entirely possible that the madness that runs through the Targaryen bloodline comes from inbreeding. While Jon was not subjected to the same environment that Dany was, he can't do anything about his genetic background.

Anyway, Viserys was as obsess with taking back the Iron Throne as Dany is now. The difference is that he was made to look mad from the start. And even back in season one, the question of both Targaryens sanity was a concern in King's Landing.

[Mantra]

Well it kind of just looks like you're just ignoring the evidence that this was a direction that her character could go then.

Yeah but if the textual evidence is just "Shit Daenerys says sometimes," that evidence cuts both ways. For every scene of her getting pissed off and ranting about razing these motherfuckers to the ground, there's like five more to offset that where she's talking about breaking the wheel and mercy being her strength and whatnot.

And my point is not that there's NO signs of her becoming a tyrant. The seeds were planted from the beginning, and there were some flashes and initial steps in that direction, but ultimately I don't think it was enough to get her to where she needed to be last night. They had her at maybe a 2 or a 3 on the tyrant scale and then just cranked her up to 11 in the span of like two episodes. They didn't put in enough work over the last few seasons to gradually nudge her further and further in this direction. If we think about Walt in Breaking Bad, he didn't just go from normal dude to mass murdering asshole with only a few moderate transgressions in between. If you want a character to go through a believable transformation (which is 100% what I wanted from Dany's story), you gotta really build their arc and show multiple points of descent.

[theimage13]

Yeah but if the textual evidence is just "Shit Daenerys says sometimes," that evidence cuts both ways. For every scene of her getting pissed off and ranting about razing these motherfuckers to the ground, there's like five more to offset that where she's talking about breaking the wheel and mercy being her strength and whatnot.

And my point is not that there's NO signs of her becoming a tyrant. The seeds were planted from the beginning, and there were some flashes and initial steps in that direction, but ultimately I don't think it was enough to get her to where she needed to be last night.

You know who's really good at being fucking crazy while tricking people into thinking they're not?

Successful tyrants.

[Wretchedest]

One thing I think about is, no one told her "if you cross this line I can no longer support you?" Why? Because they were afraid of her. Everyone was afraid of her. For a few seasons she's barely uttered a phrase that wasn't about the throne or being queen.

One of my film professors pointed out that the reason this all feels faster is because all of the characters have consolidated and hang out with each other now. So instead of each characters getting like 4 minutes every other episode or even 15 whole minutes in an entire season, now we spend entire episodes where they're all in the same place and there's only 3 or 4 people to cut from, and the momentum has changed as a result

[Reznor2112]

Slight diversion...

if anyone HASN'T checked out the musical project by Jacob Anderson AKA Grey Worm called Raleigh Ritchie...GO NOW.

Just now discovering his stuff and his 2016 album You're A Man Now, Boy is fantastic.

Here is his latest single from 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB30oo2YYf4

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Slight diversion...

if anyone HASN'T checked out the musical project by Jacob Anderson AKA Grey Worm called Raleigh Ritchie...GO NOW.

He’s great! I was SO stoked when I discovered he had music a while back. He did a guest spot on a couple episodes of Game Grumps and that introduced me to his stuff. I went and listened to YAMNB right away. Hope I can catch him live in the States one of these days! This isn’t from his full-length, but still one of my favorites.


https://youtu.be/W-PYIr07DFc

Edit: Just as a side note, up until now, when I’ve looked back on every season, they’ve mostly managed to improve with age the more I think about them. Season 8 is fine, but it’s the only one that has actually leaned the other way the more I’ve thought about it. :/ Intense, for sure. But a victim of a shift in writing because of a significantly shorter timeframe? More so. Definitely not awful, I should clarify.

[sonic_discord]

God... people are petitioning (440,000 so far) to have HBO re-do season 8 (https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/game-of-thrones-fan-petition-remake-season-8-1203217025/). Because there's not anything in the world that deserves this attention more than a fantasy TV show. And because it worked out so well for the Star Wars: The Last Jedi petition.

[theimage13]

God... people are petitioning (440,000 so far) to have HBO re-do season 8 (https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/game-of-thrones-fan-petition-remake-season-8-1203217025/). Because there's not anything in the world that deserves this attention more than a fantasy TV show. And because it worked out so well for the Star Wars: The Last Jedi petition.

I think (okay, I hope) that the vast majority of the petitioners are just jumping on it as a meme or a joke. I don't think they actually expect results (or even a response). I certainly don't think they feel entitled to one.

I'm sure *some* people do, but there are always gonna be some crazies out there.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I think (okay, I hope) that the vast majority of the petitioners are just jumping on it as a meme or a joke. I don't think they actually expect results (or even a response). I certainly don't think they feel entitled to one.

I'm sure *some* people do, but there are always gonna be some crazies out there.

People on my own Facebook are spamming it (after signing it) hoping that HBO will actually put millions of dollars and hold off on any GoT spinoffs for the sake of completely reshooting a season that’s already 5/6 of the way over. I’ll admit I shared the story myself, but signing anything like that goes nowhere, unless someone (in this case, HBO) actually opens a petition to gauge interest, and even then...

I do think it’s useful for showing how many people are displeased with the current season, though. The best they can hope for is that HBO learns their lesson and tries to avoid doing something like this in the future.

[henryeatscereal]

God... people are petitioning (440,000 so far) to have HBO re-do season 8 (https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/game-of-thrones-fan-petition-remake-season-8-1203217025/). Because there's not anything in the world that deserves this attention more than a fantasy TV show. And because it worked out so well for the Star Wars: The Last Jedi petition.
So stupid.
Only bad thing i can say about the last season it's that is "rushed", but other than that i can't complaint.

People are huge babies nowadays...

[theimage13]

The best they can hope for is that HBO learns their lesson and tries to avoid doing something like this in the future.

Something like what?

I've yet to hear a critique that has made me think "you know what? that's a great point. HBO really screwed up."

Every complaint I've heard so far are just people bitching about how the show didn't got the way they wanted it to. Which - spoiler alert - is not the way TV / books / movies / whatever works.

I for one have enjoyed this season.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Something like what?

I've yet to hear a critique that has made me think "you know what? that's a great point. HBO really screwed up."

Every complaint I've heard so far are just people bitching about how the show didn't got the way they wanted it to. Which - spoiler alert - is not the way TV / books / movies / whatever works.

I for one have enjoyed this season.

I don’t mean to imply I think that this season is a colossal mistake or anything. While I feel like it’s a weaker season, it’s still ending in the best way it can given the circumstances. However, to say that this season would have benefitted from a full 10-episode slate wouldn’t be wrong. I don’t have any personal stake in what happens as far as “how I wanted it to go.” I’ve even read the spoilers of the finale, and if they have any truth to them, I’ll actually be pleased with where things go in the end. Things throughout the season have had fitting ends to them so far, it just feels like the means they’re using to get there are being rushed for the sake of winding things down in a timely manner.

But when 400,000 people are expressing such intense displeasure, even if I don’t agree with all of it, that isn’t a number that should be completely brushed aside.


So stupid.
Only bad thing i can say about the last season it's that is "rushed", but other than that i can't complaint.

People are huge babies nowadays...

That’s more or less my only complaint so far! They’re doing what they can with what they’ve got, and anybody who is upset that so and so died or this big happened forgets what the show has done from the beginning - subvert your expectations. There have been divisive things happening on the show from the beginning, and somehow people forget.

[M1ke]

I'm not going to sign the petition, even with my complaints about how the season has gone. Why do we need to write a petition every time we feel disappointed in something?

I've survived being disappointed many times in my life, and even if Sunday's episode is awful, it'll be just fine.

[marodi]

Every single person who has signed this petition should be made to finance the re-shooting of season 8 if they want it so badly.

[theimage13]

Every single person who has signed this petition should be made to finance the re-shooting of season 8 if they want it so badly.

Did you see that fucking "build the wall" GoFundMe?

I bet if they'd done this at the beginning of the season, they could have crowdfunded four more episodes.

[Mantra]

Anyway, apparently the short length of the season had nothing to do with budgeting, and in fact HBO actually wanted it to run longer, but the Benioff and Weiss insisted on doing it like this. They recently said (https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/09/game-of-thrones-season-8-showrunners-interview/)...

"HBO would have been happy for the show to keep going, to have more episodes in the final season. We always believed it was about 73 hours, and it will be roughly that."

LOL

[Kodiak33]

Anyway, apparently the short length of the season had nothing to do with budgeting, and in fact HBO actually wanted it to run longer, but the Benioff and Weiss insisted on doing it like this. They recently said (https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/09/game-of-thrones-season-8-showrunners-interview/)...

"HBO would have been happy for the show to keep going, to have more episodes in the final season. We always believed it was about 73 hours, and it will be roughly that."

LOL

That made no sense to me...why they said that I mean. Or maybe they were covering for HBO.

[marodi]

Did you see that fucking "build the wall" GoFundMe?

I bet if they'd done this at the beginning of the season, they could have crowdfunded four more episodes.

Maybe they could also have crowfunded a scene where Jon would have pet Ghost before sending him away. Apparently, the director of that episode said that the reason why Jon did not interact with his direwolf is because there's CGI going into making Ghost appearing bigger than he is and Jon petting him would have look unrealistic.

But having people riding dragons is totally real, of course. ��

On another subject: to whom do you all think Varys was writing at the beginning of episode 5? All I could make out is that he wad spilling the beans about who Jon is. I hoping Varys will end up having a bit of revenge from the grave against Dany...

[Jinsai]

Regarding this furious-fan petition, I guess I don't get why people are SO mad about. What exactly is the complaint?

[ryanmcfly]

Regarding this furious-fan petition, I guess I don't get why people are SO mad about. What exactly is the complaint?

They're mad because they think this season has "lazy writing" aka they are just butthurt that it's not the ending they got.

[theimage13]

On another subject: to whom do you all think Varys was writing at the beginning of episode 5? All I could make out is that he wad spilling the beans about who Jon is. I hoping Varys will end up having a bit of revenge from the grave against Dany...

I don't know, but I think it's entirely possible that he was trying to poison Dany. Between the closeup of him taking off a ring before being executed to the weird "we'll try again at supper" exchange....he may have been attempting a hit.

[marodi]

I don't know, but I think it's entirely possible that he was trying to poison Dany. Between the closeup of him taking off a ring before being executed to the weird "we'll try again at supper" exchange....he may have been attempting a hit.

Oh I agree; he was definitely trying something. Still, I think that he had another plan in motion. Varys knew better than to put all his eggs in the same basket.

He was as dangerous as Littlefinger, after all. He would not have survived as long as he did otherwise.

Speaking of the late Petyr: I wonder what happened to Sweet Robyn, Lord of the Vale. Is he still throwing people out of the Moon Door?

[Jinsai]

Speaking of the late Petyr: I wonder what happened to Sweet Robyn, Lord of the Vale. Is he still throwing people out of the Moon Door?

I was thinking the same thing...

Also, I was recalling that whole thing with Bronn and the crossbow thing and that whole plot thread... was that just a completely useless/predictable red herring?

[theimage13]

Oh I agree; he was definitely trying something. Still, I think that he had another plan in motion. Varys knew better than to put all his eggs in the same basket.

He was as dangerous as Littlefinger, after all. He would not have survived as long as he did otherwise.

Speaking of the late Petyr: I wonder what happened to Sweet Robyn, Lord of the Vale. Is he still throwing people out of the Moon Door?

https://news.avclub.com/its-time-to-consider-the-hateful-idea-that-robin-arryn-1833837091

[marodi]

Jinsai I don't know. I never believed that Bronn would kill anyone, he's too clever for that.


https://news.avclub.com/its-time-to-consider-the-hateful-idea-that-robin-arryn-1833837091

HELL NO. If that happens, I'm signing the goddamn petition!

[M1ke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i0a7RDPkM8&feature=youtu.be&t=121

Dan Weiss, Tom Morello of Audioslave/Rage Against The Machine, Scott Ian of Anthrax, Nuno Bettencourt of Extreme, Brad Paisley, and Game Of Thrones composer Ramin Djawadi play the theme song together.

[kdrcraig]

^ that is awesome

[Jord]

Every single person who has signed this petition should be made to finance the re-shooting of season 8 if they want it so badly.

I had said something along the lines of this the other day to a friend, or they should try their hand at writing for a show themselves to see if they can come up with something like GOT...the only problem now is that it's gone from it's beginnings, to being an absolutely massive phenomenon of a show where every single episode is hyped on the level that a blockbuster movie is. There is definitely pressure when the hype gets that big with something, it's a part of the culture and everything - it's EVERYWHERE, and you actively have to avoid the internet altogether if you want to avoid spoilers.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this season for the surprises, the unexpected things that have happened, although I've had a couple of plot points from the last two episodes ruined, as well as Arya & The Night King from the Battle of Winterfell, but that serves me right for following GOT meme pages on Facebook and looking at the comments.

and I massively agree with you @eskimo (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=218) - one of the things I hate about the internet in today's culture is the fact that whenever people are upset or disappointed with something they just start up a big petition and expect things to be changed to how they want it. People need to get a fucking grip.

Whatever happens, happens. We've got 7 other seasons available to watch. There won't be another show like this again so enjoy it for what it is.

[koz-ivan]

for the sake of honesty, and full disclosure, this season is imho far below the quality of prior seasons, and overall just been relatively poor television.

the actors, all the effects people, costuming, stunts, have been nailing it (aside from one lone coffee cup...) the writing and overall plot direction has been the show's only real weakness.


They're mad because they think this season has "lazy writing" aka they are just butthurt that it's not the ending they got.

To be fair - if it was easy to wrap up GoT in a way that felt true to both the books and the previous seasons of the show - GRRM would have released that book years ago, i fully get that it is a monumental task to pull all the bits of this and that together into a coherent story arc that brings the saga to completion - and feels true to everything that has gone on before. it is a literary gordion knot.

i have a ton of sympathy for the writers who saw their jobs go from adapting a series of books to having to assume the burden of largely writing the conclusion.

there is a good grrm rant i could go on, but for the sake of brevity...

That being said, it isn't the various endings that bother me too much, it is how the story is being told.

it is things like the scorpions being all powerful anti dragon weapons one week, and the next - completely pointless, or the seemingly mindless horde of zombies suddenly playing hide and seek in the library.

the clegane bowl was another of those nits, sweet looking fight, but there wasn't anything really riding on it, no real impact.

it is also an over reliance on spectacle vs storytelling.

i do mind how jaime went out, to see a seasons long redemption arc suddenly devour it's own tail just to set up an improbable at best duel with euron with zero emotional connection to either participant just seems like a waste of everyone's time. further the one bit of honor jaime always had was that he functionally prevented the firebombing of kings landing by killing the mad king and becoming the kingslayer, yet he bins all of it openly declaring that he never cared for those people.

[theimage13]

it is things like the scorpions being all powerful anti dragon weapons one week, and the next - completely pointless,

I still don't understand why people are so upset about this. One guy came pretty close to blowing up a goddamn plane with his shoes. Literally overnight everyone had to start taking their shoes off at the airport. Same with liquids. Hell, go back to the story of the Trojan Horse. One week it was clever as fuck. Next time? "Fool me once....." comes to mind. I touched a hot stove ONCE as a kid. Learned real quick what a hot stove looked like and felt like and never touched one again.

Something can work fantastically one day because you don't see it coming, but still be so simple that you can easily defeat it in the future because you recognize the threat. The scorpions weren't some masterful thing that should have been effective for ages to come. It was a reasonably simple and effective weapon when it wasn't on the opponents' proverbial radar, but as soon as they knew what to look for....game over.

And NONE of you were bitching about "oh right, like the Night King could take down a dragon with a single hand-thrown spear" when that happened. You were all "holy shit well done Night King" when that happened, but "no way could you ever shoot down a dragon with a whole fleet of similar technology" when it comes up later. Double standards much?

[koz-ivan]

Something can work fantastically one day because you don't see it coming, but still be so simple that you can easily defeat it in the future because you recognize the threat. The scorpions weren't some masterful thing that should have been effective for ages to come. It was a reasonably simple and effective weapon when it wasn't on the opponents' proverbial radar, but as soon as they knew what to look for....game over.

except that dany's dragons got shot at last season too, which while it wasn't fatal, should have been a wake up call, alas she somehow let a fleet of ships sneak up on her & her flying dragons...



And NONE of you were bitching about "oh right, like the Night King could take down a dragon with a single hand-thrown spear" when that happened. You were all "holy shit well done Night King" when that happened, but "no way could you ever shoot down a dragon with a whole fleet of similar technology" when it comes up later. Double standards much?

3 things.

1. the night king at least was another primal magical force, i never expected the rules of physics to apply 100% here.
2. the night king shooting down a dragon was one of the least improbable things in the episode, which lets be honest had a real stretch of a plot consisting of going north of the wall to kidnap a zombie - so they could then be allies with cersei.

3. hope is a funny thing, how people react to a show when there is at least a whole season to go, and when there is only an hour or two left won't always be the same thing.

[marodi]

This is an excellent article about Dany's actions in King's Landing and how her entire life brought her there :

https://www.vulture.com/amp/2019/05/game-of-thrones-finale-daenerys-tragedy.html

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

This is an excellent article about Dany's actions in King's Landing and how her entire life brought her there :

https://www.vulture.com/amp/2019/05/game-of-thrones-finale-daenerys-tragedy.html

Good read. I like the comparison with LOTR and Frodo; it does work.

[chuckrh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=_64tqyIhhEc

[elevenism]

I'm in the "this is a little rushed" camp, but, otherwise, I dig it.

I agree that people have become sort of ridiculous and toxic, when stories don't go how they want them to go.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

I'm in the "this is a little rushed" camp, but, otherwise, I dig it.

I agree that people have become sort of ridiculous and toxic, when stories don't go how they want them to go.

Agreed, me as well. When I heard of the petition, and the amount of people that signed it...

[sweeterthan]

I just watched last week’s episode again. It was sooo good. Fuck the haters.
Also, my new theory is arya kills dany with khal drogo’s face. I think that’s what the white horse is about. I think it will be predictable and Jon will have the throne with Arya and Sansa as his advisors.

[Wretchedest]

Definitely the intensity about it is weird. I think there's a validity to the notion that a feminist icon has been damaged, and yet on the other hand this provides at least two toher, and then on the... Third? Hand? This show is has an absurdly mysognistic legacy and is little more than pulp throughout.

And that it has been little more than pulp is probably where it's audience has become so wide and probably why so few are used to the subverted expectations of a heel turn, of understanding why Daenerys' turn and complexity is one of the shows few strengths. The broad audience can deal with the dumb shock of a sudden murder, but a tragic villain is harder to bear.

And maybe partly because it's so rare to have a proper execution. Perhaps the only one I can think of in recent memory is Harvey dent in the dark Knight, a turn telegraphed a mile away and handled with zero finesse

[marodi]

Since it's our last chance at making predictions (and mine are almost always wrong, which I like): Jon kills Dany because she's gone mad and because Ned once told his kids that when you render a death sentence, you need to execute it yourself ( that was in S01E01 I think). Tyrion gets the Throne because he's the best person for the job and because Jon doesn't want it and anyway, he would be a bad leader. He was the Lord Commander of the Night Watch and he managed to get himself killed by his own men, after all. Ser Davos is Tyrion's Hand.

I said earlier that GoT is going to be the new Lost since we'll be left with more questions than answers. I predict that GoT is going to end the same way Lost did; if you remember, the last scenes of Lost were of Jack Shepard, mirroring the first scenes of the show. So the last scenes of GoT are going of someone North of the Wall finding dead people arranged in the manners of the White Walkers (because I don't believe they are gone). Preferably, the finders would be Tormund and Ghost because I want to see them one last time.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

^^^
Dam, that last paragraph... Das gooood. I was thinking the same thing about the walkers. But you had to bring up that mirroring scene from Lost with Jack; made me cry so hard.

[marodi]

^^^
I saw Lost's series finale once, when it aired. I haven't been able to watch it again because I still cry a river just thinking about it. Jack watching the plane fly over him and the dog lying next to him... I just can't. :(

[chuckrh]

its grand finale day. just got home from avengers waiting for GoT

[Mantra]

All complaints aside, there's no denying that this show has been a hell of a ride. Hard to believe this is the last new episode.

[marodi]

Goddamn it, Drogon; Gandalf's sword was in there!

[marodi]

Sorry about the double post but I have a case of the feels.

I'm sure I'll find a lot to whine about tomorrow but overall, I'm satisfied with that ending. I did not see that coming though.

Can we have a spin off about the meetings of the High Coucil?

[Wretchedest]

I'm pretty satisfied. Surely ending this show is an uneviably difficult task. This tied things up as well as anyone could expect.

I will say that the first half of this episode had me furious with Jon, but ultimately super happy that the writers didn't plot armor Dany until the very end, for bullshit reasons. This was the most intelligent way for things to go.


I wonder: how much money was lost for bets, with Bran as king

[Conan The Barbarian]

This was the best episode from a rushed season. I believe it to be the weakest season.

I am completely fine with how things ended, but holy fuck, the internet blows.

[thelastdisciple]

Someone explain to me what jurisdiction Greyworm has over ANYTHING now that his Queen is dead? He's got an army... big deal.

Bran was just elected King and has to agree to his terms? gtfo

[Piko]

I don't know what to think right now. Gonna have to sit on it for a bit. Jon going back to the watch just feels like the dumbest thing ever. Everything else is ok. Don't think i even mind King Bran as shocking as it is.

Off to read the books and hope Martin lives long enough to finish them.

[Wretchedest]

Jon didn't go back to the watch. He "went back to the watch." There is no watch. He went to live with the wildlings.

Bran being king I think is one of the only desirable out omes no one saw coming

[Piko]

But he's still banished. But Yeah, I guess he's just a wildling now.

[Wretchedest]

The way thwy handled him in general was the only thing I didn't like though. Like he was still beyond stupid and slow seeming

[M1ke]

That sucked. I felt no suspense around Dany dying, it felt like going through the motions rather than anything with any heft.

And Bran is king? Why do they all believe in this three eyed raven stuff anyways?

John killing Dany didn't feel well executed, and everything else felt tacked on.

This season kinda sucked, for me at least anyways. Still not signing the petition though.

[richardp]

Wasnt the best season but it kept me entertained. I enjoyed it.

[Wretchedest]

perhaps the most innteresting thing about it is how unremarkable it is. Everything that happens is so reasonable as to be unexpected, for a show that won it's audiences on twists and surprises.

The episode is even set up in a way that leads it's audience to believe that the lead, infuraitingly, won't do the one reasonable thing he should do, and we've spent all week assuming some other thing would have to happen. And from there, everything is unnervingly fine. It isn't even exactly clean! Just fine, and in Westerns things usually aren't

I especially appreciated Arya's send off, and in a more subtle way, I appreciate the notion that the unsullied, finally found true freedom. The whole thing was quite fine.

The only thing that I really hated about it was the cheese ball "in the end one of the characters writes the book you are reading" thing, which should be banned under the Geneva convention. GoT is at least the second show this year to go with that ending, but at least didn't make it the principle element of it's conclusion.

[ryanmcfly]

Got some closure from that finale. It wasn't perfect, but I'm not mad at it. The show is still 10/10 for me overall.

[ricardo]

Bran gotta be one of the most pointless characters I've ever seen in any series. The explanation they give for him to be special are so abstract it makes me feel the writers had no idea what to do with him at some point. If I'm not mistaken his character did not appear at all for a whole season.

It's a shame because the "magic" part of GoT was much more interesting to me than the whole bad written soap opera thing they got going post-GRRM. Obviously, I loved the politics and the game of power of the early seasons.

It just doesn't make sense to me that the army of the dead and the long winter were not the ultimate threat for humanity. Even if the Lannisters are evil personified.

I was looking to know more about Night King, maybe his motivations were actually legit. Maybe he was actually running away from something even more evil and dangerous even far up North than the North (I love this theory lol).

The Drogon scene was amazing. This show was really well done. They had the time, budget and source material to take a fantasy story to an unmeasurable high level. What we got was a sequence of anti-climatic deaths, stupid decisions and Khaleesi's new cuck Jon saying "She is my/our/the queen" about 500 times. Meh.

[Piko]

The source material argument is 50/50. GRRM gave them plot points and I think that was about it. Seems like GRRM also had little to zero input on this season as well, which could explain a lot of the season.

I just started reading the books. My main hope now, is that the future books (if ever finished) will expand on the events and give them more meaning and purpose.

Season should never have been six episodes.

[Swykk]

I don’t have as many complaints as most people do when it comes to this. I preferred seasons 6 and 7 to the others so that dumb horse drawing going around the Internet does nothing for me.

—I loved Arya’s ending most of all and she was my favorite character, so I’m quite happy in regards to that.

—I also enjoyed Sam, Brienne and Tyrion’s conclusions as well.

—As for Sansa? She should be queen, full stop. I’m glad she at least said, “Fuck this bullshit, I’ll take my own kingdom, thank you.” I see people complaining about her inability to keep secrets but the now 6 kingdoms could’ve used some transparency. At least the North will have it.

—Dany got the death she got because it had to be done that way. Any elaborate scheme would’ve likely failed. And I absolutely do not understand the bitching about her heel turn. It’s been coming for 8 seasons. If you did not see it, that’s kind of on you.

—Bran, who’s done jack shit, as king is the second most bothersome thing about this ending. This sucked despite the rather clever “Electoral College” vs “real democracy” discussion that came before this idiotic decision.

—The most annoying letdown was how light Cersei got off. She needed to die much more painfully and publicly.

—And lastly, Jon, whose lack of ambition fucked him again, might have had the most appropriate send off. He was never happy, never wanted the throne, so he’s all too willing to go live among the wildlings. Who enforces the no wife and family policy, by the way? I have a feeling no one apart from Grey Worm cares.

[Jinsai]

I felt like an entire season could have been devoted to Stalin-Dany.

And hopefully the books will do that for me... otherwise Bravo, and for the first half, I thought it was one of the best episodes ever.



The only thing that I really hated about it was the cheese ball "in the end one of the characters writes the book you are reading" thing, which should be banned under the Geneva convention. GoT is at least the second show this year to go with that ending, but at least didn't make it the principle element of it's conclusion.

Yes yes, this, CHRIST, this.... also, upon review, now we have to picture GRRM during that uncomfortable sex scene w/ Gilly, lying on his back, going "oh Yesssssssmrrrrrr"

[marodi]

Ser Brienne ending up being Commander of the Kingsguard was so right. She killed me when she wrote that Jamie died protecting his queen. It speaks volumes about her. Also: Ser Podrick. Isn't Podrick dead in the books?

Drogon acknowledging Jon as a Targaryen twice was fabulous. If Dany hasn't been so far gone in her madness, she would have recognized that her dragons knew Jon was telling the truth. I wonder where he did bring her body?

Dany saying that she had always imagined the Iron Throne a a huge thing was a nice Easter Egg for those who have read the books.

My man Tyrion having a real chance at living a fulfilling life and even a chance at happiness is so great. I still want a spin-off series about that small Coucil. And one about Arya's adventures.

"Sit down, uncle."

But I also realize that both House Targaryen and House Stark were going extinct, since Jon is the last Targaryen and is forbidden to marry (so no legitimate descendents) and Bran, the last male Stark, can't have children. Maybe Queen Sansa will find a way around that?

I'm still pleased about how it ended. But it's not really the end since there's still two unpublished books in the series.

And Jon petted Ghost, telling him what a good boy he was so everything is alright with the world.

[Bachy]

—The most annoying letdown was how light Cersei got off. She needed to die much more painfully and publicly.


This is one thing I'm also disappointed with. However, I do not fault the show writers too much for deciding not to go that route. The amount of backlash they would have received had they given Cersei a death at least comparable to some of the more gruesome ones we've seen in the series would have been pretty significant as well. You unfortunately can't get away with say, for instance, crushing Cersei's head like they did Oberyn's, not in the current culture. This was a damned if you do, damned if you don't instance really.

I think the fact that Jaime went back to comfort her is what irks me most. It felt like the show was leading us to the point where he would have been the one to kill his sister. Though instead he died in her arms? Ick.

[Wretchedest]

On the post GRRM era, isn't that almost exactly when the shows ysogyny tampers down and it's fixation with rape and torture ends?

[ricardo]

Its feminist agenda became much clearer, yes.

[Wretchedest]

Wow that response speaks volumes about you dude.

[sweeterthan]

On the post GRRM era, isn't that almost exactly when the shows ysogyny tampers down and it's fixation with rape and torture ends?

Maybe. But they did have Sansa claim to not want to change anything about being raped and tortured by madman. The trope of the a strong female who only got stronger by being raped is rape culture bullshit. It’s my biggest complaint about the final episodes.

[Piko]

Winterfell going independent isn't too surprising. If Ned had survived, I'm pretty sure he would've wanted that too. Sansa in a way is honoring that and sharing that same belief. My issue is how easy it went down and how everyone was so cool about losing a kingdom.

[Wretchedest]

Maybe. But they did have Sansa claim to not want to change anything about being raped and tortured by madman. The trope of the a strong female who only got stronger by being raped is rape culture bullshit. It’s my biggest complaint about the final episodes.

Yeah absolutely, I'm not claiming that it disappeared, just that it subsided. Even the ending sees a lot more dicks at the table than I think anyone would have bet money on

[Jinsai]

I think that's an interesting trope I hadn't really considered, and given that it's played out twice now in this series alone with both Dany and Sansa, I think it's fair to call it out.

At the same time though, almost every fantasy character is built around trauma of some kind...

[sweeterthan]

I’ve spoken to other women about it and they stare at me blankly. I love the show but the way it held up rape culture is regrettable imo. Especially that moment with Sansa and the hound where he brings it up to her.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

What did I just watch... this felt awkward, uneven, and the tone was all over the place. We got Jon petting Ghost... that was satisfying enough.

[elevenism]

I'll say it again, now that I've seen the final episode.
It was a damn fine season, but it felt a little rushed.



All in all, I certainly enjoyed it.

And I'm slightly annoyed by all this "worst ending ever" bullshit all over the internet. It's not YOUR story, fanboy. If these people think they could tell a better story than GoT, they should get to writing, instead of talking shit online.

[Piko]

It's not a bad season. Way too many plotholes. Very clearly rushed. That's really what hurts this season and held it back from what it could've been.

Maybe I'm just too blindsided by the finale to truly enjoy it. Still in "what the fuck" mode.

It got me to finally want to read the books. So it did something right.

[Wretchedest]

Yeah I don't know about those people. I mean first of all the notion of an ending is challenging to begin with, particularly in a series like this one... What really is an ending? What else would really be satisfying?

I'm not sure. I've never been the biggest fan of this show, in fact I only just started liking it so it's hard to get into the head of a game of thrones super fan for me, and what's good about and mechanically where it should end up and why.

As entertaining as it is, Game of Thrones is astonishingly shallow as far as metaphor and theme go, so there's nothing to really wrap up in that department either

[Mantra]

I kinda wonder if Benioff and Weiss were just burned out on GOT after being utterly devoted to it for a fucking decade and were just ready wrap it up and dive into some new Star Wars shit. I mean, that IS a long time to work on just one project.

[chuckrh]

All hail Bran the Broken! Good move making Tyrion the Hand.

[kdrcraig]

Watched the finale again last night and I really like it. The last two episodes definitely felt pretty rushed but overall I'm satisfied with how it ended. Jamie and Cersei could've had a better send off but everyone else was wrapped up nicely.

This season was nothing like what I expected it to be, and that's Game of Thrones as fuck.

[theimage13]

I liked it.

I think the funniest thing about this whole season are the complaints from people who didn't - and don't seem to even realize this - that the big issue here is the show's inability to give a trite Hollywood ending where everything works out for the good guy.

I mean...this is medieval times, people. Shitty things happen. A lot. The good guys don't always get rewarded. The bad guys don't always get the big public hanging the bloodthirsty crowd wants. And fortunes can turn on a dime. I know in movies and TV everything is supposed to be all planned out and neat and scripted and have some grand master plan to it. But that's not how LIFE works. And in that regard, this season felt more realistic than any eye-rolling cookie cutter crap that's out there. It was refreshing.

I joked about Bran being king years ago because he had the most experience sitting around telling people what to do, but I was not expecting that outcome. I like it, and I like that Sansa reclaimed Winterfell as an independent territory. And for those bitching that she was the only one who should have been queen: I think the fact that she wanted Winterfell to be independent speaks to the notion that she doesn't even like the idea of a massive kingdom. I think overseeing Winterfell is a better fit for her than overseeing Westeros.

[imail724]

I liked it.

I think the funniest thing about this whole season are the complaints from people who didn't - and don't seem to even realize this - that the big issue here is the show's inability to give a trite Hollywood ending where everything works out for the good guy.

I mean...this is medieval times, people. Shitty things happen. A lot. The good guys don't always get rewarded. The bad guys don't always get the big public hanging the bloodthirsty crowd wants. And fortunes can turn on a dime. I know in movies and TV everything is supposed to be all planned out and neat and scripted and have some grand master plan to it. But that's not how LIFE works. And in that regard, this season felt more realistic than any eye-rolling cookie cutter crap that's out there. It was refreshing.
You're so wrong about this. I think what made people like the show so much initially was it's willingness to go against typical Hollywood tropes and to do things that were more realistic and not what the audience expected. This last season was the complete opposite of that.

[theimage13]

You're so wrong about this. I think what made people like the show so much initially was it's willingness to go against typical Hollywood tropes and to do things that were more realistic and not what the audience expected. This last season was the complete opposite of that.

"It's so absurd that they could just kill a dragon that didn't see the attack coming!"
"Jamie was totally an awesome guy with a redemption story and they just ruined that!"
"Jon snow murdered the queen and the had the audacity to punish him for it?!?!!"

This is literally people rooting for the Hollywood "things happen at a nice predictable pace" or "happy ending" themes.

[marodi]

Still satisfied with the finale but it doesn't mean that I don't have some constructive criticism (aka whining) to do. There are after all some questions that were not answered.

Fortunately, the WaPo also has some questions that are eerily similar to mine: https://beta-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/05/21/game-thrones-finale-didnt-answer-all-our-questions-here-are-things-still-bothering-us/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&outputType=amp#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.c om&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

The second one is a no brainer though: everyone knows that Jon killed Dany because he told them, like the stupid man he is.

[Mantra]

Fortunately, the WaPo also has some questions that are eerily similar to mine: https://beta-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/05/21/game-thrones-finale-didnt-answer-all-our-questions-here-are-things-still-bothering-us/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&outputType=amp#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.c om&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s


Yeah, the third question is something I thought about too, and it's a good representation of the somewhat random, nonsensical writing that became more prevalent in recent seasons. It's hard for me to care that much, but none of Grey Worm's actions after Dany's death make much sense at all.

It kinda felt like they just didn't want to hassle with the narrative logistics of writing a more realistic/logical Grey Worm reaction since they were so close to the end, so they just bypassed his character's agency altogether and made him do and say whatever was required to get this thing wrapped up how they wanted.

[Jinsai]

really, my biggest complaint was the awkward-feeling comedy relief moment where they sat around politicking. Ah tee hee.

[M1ke]

I think the funniest thing about this whole season are the complaints from people who didn't - and don't seem to even realize this - that the big issue here is the show's inability to give a trite Hollywood ending where everything works out for the good guy.

I mean...this is medieval times, people. Shitty things happen. A lot. The good guys don't always get rewarded. The bad guys don't always get the big public hanging the bloodthirsty crowd wants. And fortunes can turn on a dime. I know in movies and TV everything is supposed to be all planned out and neat and scripted and have some grand master plan to it. But that's not how LIFE works. And in that regard, this season felt more realistic than any eye-rolling cookie cutter crap that's out there. It was refreshing.


I don't think that's right though, I think we did in a lot of ways get a very Holywood style ending.

Most of the fan favourite characters from the last few seasons survived, Tyrion, Jon, Sansa, Arya, and for realism at least some should have died. Episode 3, the Night King was defeated with a last second dagger to the heart, which seemed so similar to Return of the King that it's almost like they just copied it. In episode 4 they tried to create some suspense around the battle with Cersei, who they then defeated in the next episode. In episode 5 they tried to build some suspense around Dany being a new villian, and in episode 6 Dany was vanquished with all the gusto of a rom-com trying to make you feel bad for a broken-hearted dumbass who doesn't understand why they're being dumped.

Then they followed it up with an epilogue where we find out that everyone is happy now. Lots of minor characters are on the high counsel and they're all happy about it. Tyrion gets to try to make the world better, and he's as happy about it as he could possibly be. Bran gets to be king, and he seems to enjoy it. Sansa gets to be queen of the north, and she seems pretty happy about it. Arya looks pleased on her boat westward. Jon gets to go camping with his friends in the north for the rest of his life, I can't imagine he's unhappy about that, especially with their no longer being any threat north of the wall. There doesn't seem to be any conflict anymore, the unsullied are leaving and the dothraki don't really seem to care (which also, didn't they all die in episode 3? I don't understand how they came back in episode 5, when in the aftershow the writers even come right out and state that what you're watching is essentially the end of the dothraki)

At the end, the good guys are happy, and the bad guys are dead. I get that a lot of people didn't want Dany to be a villain, but she did slaughter thousands of civilians, so whether we wanted her to become bad or not, she did.

[chuckrh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHMDkbElSTY

[Mr. Blaileen]

Overall, I think it was alright. I don't think it was ever going to be as good as it could have been with the writers being unable to rely on GRRM's material for the last few seasons. If the books had been released first, and seasons 7-8 were the regular amount of ten episodes, I think it would have been MUCH easier to digest everything that went down during this last season. It felt a lot like they told 2/3 of the story over 6 full seasons and then crammed the last 1/3 into a measly 13 episodes.

Regarding the finale itself (and the rest of the season honestly), it was decent, and I didn't have a huge issue with what happened for the most part.. but it just felt rushed.

- I didn't hate Dany's turn (again, just rushed), and Emilia Clarke did some really good acting in those final moments - she genuinely portrayed that her character believed what she was saying. She did great given what she had to work with.
- Cheers to Peter Dinklage, who did some great acting this whole season and the finale in particular.
- Why is anyone listening to Grey Worm? Just because he has an army? I'm nitpicking here, but I was just wondering why they bothered taking his demands seriously.
- Everything worked out nicely for the Starks, though I didn't see the Bran bit coming at all.
- Thought Jon got shafted, and it bothered me at fist, but now I see it as fitting..especially for a GRRM story. He saved the world several times over and was never truly acknowledged or rewarded for it. Hopefully he gets to fool around with a bunch of wildlings and live out his days in peace.
- Really hoped Cersei was going to be ALIVE and on the brink of death and that Tyrion would have to kill her - thus fulfilling that prophecy that they teased.
- Wish we found out where Drogon went.

[Mantra]

Honestly, my favorite scene in the whole finale was when Tyrion got up and went around the table straightening up all the chairs. Shit was hilarious.

[marodi]

Honestly, my favorite scene in the whole finale was when Tyrion got up and went around the table straightening up all the chairs. Shit was hilarious.

https://youtu.be/scxmOWOHYjQ

I'm already missing Tyrion so much. God, I love him. But not as much as I love Peter Dinklage. He was so very good in that final episode. He deserves all the awards in the world.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

really, my biggest complaint was the awkward-feeling comedy relief moment where they sat around politicking. Ah tee hee.

I honestly thought this scene was thrown in on accident; they all seemed as if they were laughing as themselves, and not as the characters.

[neorev]

I will not read the books until George RR Martin actually finishes them. I'm not going to invest all the time in reading the story only to have it left unfinished.

[Boots]

I just keep wondering why Daenerys was written so inconsistently. If she was supposed to be a villain from the beginning, why did the writers bother to show her doing good things in Essos and trying to make the world a better place? I read somewhere that writer Bryan Cogman hated her character the most. She was a feminist icon to so many women. Many celebrities like Madonna and Lilly Singh have worn Daenerys costumes in the past 9 years. Hundreds of babies were also named Khaleesi.

[theimage13]

I just keep wondering why Daenerys was written so inconsistently. If she was supposed to be a villain from the beginning, why did the writers bother to show her doing good things in Essos and trying to make the world a better place? I read somewhere that writer Bryan Cogman hated her character the most. She was a feminist icon to so many women. Many celebrities like Madonna and Lilly Singh have worn Daenerys costumes in the past 9 years. Hundreds of babies were also named Khaleesi.

I don't understand why she was a feminist icon though. From the very beginning she was literally all about being a dictator. Sure, she claimed she wanted to make the world a better place. But if your entire path to leadership is based on "I was born to this person so I, and only I, may EVER be your leader," then you're not about equality. You're about class / caste systems and dictatorship. Your intentions mean fuck all if you think you have an unquestionable mandate to rule the world based on who your parents were

I love seeing powerful female characters in mainstream media. I was so overjoyed as a Doctor Who fan to see Jodie Whittaker cast as The Doctor, for example. But when they're all about murdering anyone who wants to try to stop them from claiming something that they have no real right to claim in the first place, they don't strike me at all as feminist. (And yes, I think worshiping a prince / king / whatever is stupid too)

[marodi]

Everything Daenerys ever did, she did because it was beneficial to her; not because it was the right thing to do from a moral stand point. Everyone around her were there because they were useful to her. That she cared for some of them did not matter. Didn't she left her lover behind because she could not see what good he could be in her plans for Westeros?

Feminist icon? No. Celebrities dressing up like her? Well, she did have great costumes. Parents naming their daughters Khaleesi? That's just plain stupid. First it's not a name, it's a title. Second: people like to give kids cool names but sometimes, it backfires.

In other news: who's watching The Last Watch tonight?

[theimage13]

In other news: who's watching The Last Watch tonight?

What's that?

[Jinsai]

What's that?

Documentary about the making of the show... I think specifically the making of the last season... which, given this huge fan backlash (that, to be clear, I'm not entirely understanding really) is badly timed maybe... but I'm watching.

[marodi]

What Jinsai said. It's a behind the scene of the last season. I really love that stuff; I've watched several of them for different movies over the years and I've always found new points of view when watching the stories again.

I think it's also a chance to say goodbye to the actors and the characters we've watched and loved for so many years.

[Wretchedest]

I wouldn't call it a back lash, it's not really ubiquitous, I'd call it polarizing

[kdrcraig]

The Last Watch was pretty cool. It reminded me a lot of the special features on the extended editions of Lord of the Rings. Every episode was basically a movie production.

Would've liked to see more interviews with the main actors but it's definitely worth it.

[Jinsai]

I wouldn't call it a back lash, it's not really ubiquitous, I'd call it polarizing I dunno, a million pathetic change.org petitions is weird. I’d call it a backlash, and I have many friends who are REALLY pissed, so maybe that taints my perspective

[october_midnight]

Kit Harrington reportedly enters rehab. (https://consequenceofsound.net/2019/05/kit-harington-rehab-report)

[ltrandazzo]

Kit Harrington reportedly enters rehab. (https://consequenceofsound.net/2019/05/kit-harington-rehab-report)

I hope Kit gets the help he's needing. Going from this thing that has occupied your life for 9 years to "what's next" has to take a fucking toll on you.

[elevenism]

So, a few years ago, I mentioned trying to get through the first book, before I saw the show, and I just wasn't feeling it.

But I picked it up and thumbed through it a bit, and, of course, recognized all these characters and locations. Now, I'm REALLY fucking excited to read them.

[theimage13]

I hope Kit gets the help he's needing. Going from this thing that has occupied your life for 9 years to "what's next" has to take a fucking toll on you.

I feel for him. Touring works much in the same way. You eat, sleep, and breathe one job for weeks / months / years on end, then one day you're back home with literally nothing to do and possibly nothing even lined up, and you've lost all sense of purpose and identity. I spent all of last year and the first few months of this year on the same tour. I *would* have had that sense of loss at the end, except I only had four days at home before the next tour started. And when THAT one ends, I get two days before the next begins. A personal wellness treat sounds like a far-fetched luxury to me, since I can't afford to put that cycle on hold. I'm glad he can, and I hope it helps him get balanced again.

"Yeah but he's rich, he can go do whatever he wants," I hear someone saying somewhere.

Spoiler alert: that doesn't help as much as you'd think. Sure, financial security can reduce anxiety about your ability to cover costs, but having money doesn't magically make every waking moment fulfilling and meaningful.

If anyone wants a really good take on this, watch Jim & Andy: The Great beyond on Netflix.

[Jord]

Hope Kit gets the help he needs, I imagine as a few of you have said, coming off this long haul production of such a huge show to 'what next?' must take quite a toll, and not the kind of emotions and feelings that plenty of cash can just make go away.

I watched The Last Watch the other night and it was great, it made me feel a lot better about the ending of it all, it was sure a huge amount of work put into the show, I cannot fault that.

[october_midnight]

Wow, big news.

HBO not going ahead with the prequel series. (https://deadline.com/2019/10/game-of-thrones-prequel-pilot-dead-hbo-jane-goldman-naomi-watts-1202771609/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[M1ke]

I wonder how much this has to due with disappointment over the final season.

The season was poorly received, which makes it hard to believe the audience for the prequel would be that big.

[neorev]

Shame, cuz I enjoyed the final season and was looking forward to the prequels. Guess the haters are gonna ruin it for everyone else.

[mfte]

Shame, cuz I enjoyed the final season and was looking forward to the prequels. Guess the haters are gonna ruin it for everyone else.

Most people would agree that it was the show runners who ruined it for everyone.

[october_midnight]

Well apparently it didn't sway HBO toooo much. Another prequel series has been greenlit titled House of The Dragon​ (https://tvline.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-house-targaryen-spinoff-series-hbo)

[burnmotherfucker!]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/george-r-r-martin-signs-massive-five-year-overall-deal-with-hbo-exclusive

[october_midnight]

The official House of The Dragon twitter account is live and tweeting out photos of the cast, etc.

https://twitter.com/HouseofDragon/status/1386727680293412864

[october_midnight]

First cast photos.

https://twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1389960274132701192

[bobbie solo]

They lost me with how they butchered the end of that glorious series, and I honestly don't think they can get me back, esp. with a prequel that will do nothing to rectify the mistakes that were made.

[october_midnight]

Well shit, I guess that means they should just shut the whole thing down.

[elevenism]

Well shit, I guess that means they should just shut the whole thing down.that made the water I was drinking come out of my nose :p

I can't STOP laughing at it.

[elevenism]

I love you neorev , but that was fucking hilarious, and I'm going to say it in the future.
"Oh, wait, YOU don't like Frank Ocean? Well, SHIT! We better call him and make sure that new album doesn't come out!"

Anyway, yeah, i'll give these fucks another chance. I look at the last show and think the journey is more important than the...you know, awful final season.

[burnmotherfucker!]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BkGpV5dKKo&t=12s

I'm not sure if anyone cares at this point. But I'm hoping they are able to capture some of the magic that the first show was. Yeah, they dropped the ball in the last three episodes. And season 7 wasn't perfect. But it was still one of the best shows ever made. Probably top 4 for me even with the last three feeling very off.

[Something Underneath]

Original series started to have bad writing since S5 and S7 was every bit as bad as S8. The magic was only there for 4seasons out of 8. GoT is beyond overrated and woudn't even crack top 5 best HBO shows,let alone one of the best shows of all time. This prequel will probably be same phoned in garbage. Just look at the showrunners body of work before this gig...

[Deacon Blackfire]

^ Can I like this twice?
(lots of book / show spoilers follow)

I loved the early seasons, and after the fourth I finally picked up and read all of Martin's books. Doing so put in perspective some of the biased, wrongheaded, and questionable decisions the showrunners had made in adapting the material already - Tyrion is stripped off all his more regrettable traits to the point where he is basically a paragon of human virtue (and his delusional "relationship" with a teenage prostitute is entirely rewritten and re-conceived, mostly to absolve him for eventually murdering her), compared to the books Cersei is practically a protagonist, Catelyn is severely sidelined in importance and focus, Renly - an absolute scumbag in the books who believes he should be king because he has a huge army and coasts off of having extremely wealthy, well connected allies who have much to benefit from his claim - is portrayed as a kind and caring contender for the throne whose claim deserves support, and Stannis, one of Martin's most fascinating and morally complicated characters, is generally portrayed in the show as villainous and evil (Stephen Dillane was perfectly cast and brought nuance to the table but the writing for him was pretty weak from the start). Even so, I was very excited for season five. But by the end of "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" aka the awful Sand Snakes fight / ending with Sansa getting raped episode, I was disgusted and in denial about how badly it had gone off the rails. Surely they wouldn't have rewritten one of the strongest, most intense plotlines of the fifth book just so Ramsay could rape a more pivotal character? But they did.

In the books Ramsay is wedded to "Arya" - in reality Sansa's old friend Jeyne Poole, who went with her to King's Landing and was captured when everything went to shit - in order to consolidate the North "legitimately" and savagely mistreats her, in ways that are tolerated by the Northern lords because most of them know she isn't really Arya. Between that, and Theon's abuse and transformation into Reek, it is a storyline where a crucial theme is that human dignity is something everyone, regardless of name or importance or status or even guilt, deserves. And the showrunners read it and thought, "no one will care about Jeyne, Ramsay needs someone more important to abuse and rape."

The denial was broken by the fifth season's penultimate episode, where - after seeming like they were finally delving into the nuance and more redeeming qualities of his character - they did Stannis so absurdly dirty. The character from the books would sacrifice a child, perhaps even his own, if he thought it was a choice between that and the survival of the whole world. The character from the show immolates his daughter and only heir for a short lived tactical advantage, for "ambition" as the showrunners put it and to misread the character that deeply speaks volumes about their general reading comprehension. I stopped watching after season five and everything I have heard about it since then has validated that decision and my resentment of the show. It was so vindicating watching people lose it online about Daenerys, after suffering an implausible defeat at the hands of an illogically effective and plot-armored villain, suddenly and meaninglessly shedding all of her character development to become a one note monster, because it's exactly the bullshit I called when Stannis burns Shireen to stop flurries a short stroll away from Winterfell after Ramsay and "20 good men" magically make his camp's damp, freezing tents burst into flames (we literally just see the tents going up in flames and don't get any indication of how they do it because it makes no goddamn sense).

The fact they are even trying with this prequel is sad. Whoever is involved, they burned any goodwill they had, and it's all due to Benioff and Weiss destroying the original show by being pampered hacks who started thinking they were better writers than the guy whose incredible lore they were privileged enough to work with. I mean, my god, Benioff's track record speaks volumes - X-Men Origins: Wolverine showcases a Deadpool as laughably off-base as most every character in Game Of Thrones seemed to be by the end. And does anyone remember what they were originally planning on following Game Of Thrones with? Because fuckin' yikes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_(TV_series)).

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Original series started to have bad writing since S5 and S7 was every bit as bad as S8. The magic was only there for 4seasons out of 8. GoT is beyond overrated and woudn't even crack top 5 best HBO shows,let alone one of the best shows of all time. This prequel will probably be same phoned in garbage. Just look at the showrunners body of work before this gig...

Ehhh, the writing was pretty good up until 5, and maybe even some of 6. But GoT is by far top 5 HBO... You smoking something lol.

[bobbie solo]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/1Zbeweu52ZaQE/giphy.gif

[Volband]

Just as I had watched Breaking Bad after it all ended, we've started on GoT recently. Unlike with BB, I actually knew a lot of spoilers beforehand (all the major plot points of s8) and as time went on I actually looked up even more because I couldn't wait.

I didn't have an urge to post about it, as the series was going great, but by the end of S4 I just have to let this out: Dany is fucking annoying. Her only redeeming quality is that I know she is going to turn evil and die. I always restrain myself from fastforwarding, then 10 minutes of "I love poor people. I help the poor. I will solve everything." I wish I did. The story of her makes sense; wanting to establish herself and practice ruling a small land area before she jorneys into Westeros, so I understand the delay. But she got too powerful too fast and it's like watching a petulant child. Joffrey - another petulant child - was written perfectly. I loved hating him, and he got slapped and burned around so I did not feel like watching a soap opera, where the cartoonishly evil characters never suffer any consequences until the very end. But Dany is like watching Greta Thunberg: an angry child who lectures everyone over matters that far exceeds her comprehension. I'm so glad Jorah is out of that mess... It's shown that she makes some bad decisions, but other than her sad face, we see no major consequences. She's the only character on the show whose only redeeming quality is that the actress is beautiful. I don't even care about the dragons, as they are just one more asset which makes all her struggles miniscule.

I liked her when she actually had to fight for things, though even by season 2, East was starting to get boring quickly. I know S8 is allegedly a travesty, but they spent so much time on her boring shit, that it's pretty much impossible to redeem it in the end. Whether she had won or lost, it would've been seasons too late.

And what were they thinking about replacing Dario with this muppet??? This new actor is so by the numbers boring. I really liked the old Dario, because he looekd mysterious. Yes, he was your average hunk womanizer on the outside, but you got the feeling that you can't trust him. The new one is like Tesco Oberyn. No charisma, boring acting, no depth.

On the other hand, Red Wedding deserves all the praise it can get. If I were to see it in isolation, without context, I would've sad meh, seen more exciting executions. But I am so proud of George that he actually made it look like 99,9% of all the other tv shows and movies (I know he wrote it as a book and not a screenplay, but still), where Rob's pregnant wife would be killed, or at least the children. They were so happy that it was coming from a mile away. And then bam. Amazing. That scene was spoiled to me and I still had goosebumps and anxiety; it must've been really cathartic (and sad) seeing it "live". Also, Rob was becoming more and more likeable and I was really rooting for Catherine to be reunited with at least one of her children before she dies.

I am sad that Tywin is about to die, he was one of my favorite characters. But I am basically enjoying every thread right now, even Jon's. He was unbearable in season 3, but finally did something in s4.

[october_midnight]

GoT sequel series focusing on Jon Snow in early production at HBO; Kit Harrington returning to star. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-spinoff-1235167415)

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

^^ The possibilities. Just give me more Tormund and Ghost please... Was always a gripe of mine how some of the Direwolves were treated. Bring Nymeria home :(

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Liking what I'm seeing so far.


https://youtu.be/DotnJ7tTA34

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

House of the Dragon pilot was very solid. Great acting all around, cinematography is there, and it is a breath of fresh air seeing Dragons on screen again! Cannot wait to see how everything unfolds.

[otnavuskire]

House of the Dragon pilot was very solid. Great acting all around, cinematography is there, and it is a breath of fresh air seeing Dragons on screen again! Cannot wait to see how everything unfolds.

Did it leak already or something?

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Did it leak already or something?

Yup. I'm currently in Estonia, so me and my girl didn't want to wait until Monday lol.

[otnavuskire]

I would agree, solid start to the show. I'll keep watching.

[Kodiak33]

First episode really got me hooked. Everything looks fantastic as well

[sonic_discord]

Yeah, I thought it felt just like Game of Thrones, but with brand new characters. Gonna watch the 2nd episode later tonight. Matt Smith's character feels like he's going to be that "love to hate him" kind of villain.

[Kodiak33]

Still loving this, I don't understand the bad reviews at all. The main characters are phenomenally well acted, especially Milly Alcock and Matt Smith.

[Mr. Blaileen]

Loving this show so far. I thought Episode 3 was great.

[Denim Chicken]

Went in with tepid expectations and have been blown away. Episode 3 was great. As others have said, Matthew Smith is killing it. Getting back to early GOT levels of excitement for the next episode.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Some people seem to be confused about the time jumping, but all you have to do is just pay attention to what is being said lol... They don't need to flesh out every single little detail. Seeing the greyscale taking over the Crabfeeder, obviously altering his decision making and mobility, I was glad there wasn't a long, dragged out scene with Daemon and him going 1 on 1.

Matt Smith didn't even have to say one line to completely take over the end of the episode. He's stealing the show for me.

Episode 3 was great, and you can feel the tension starting to build up.

[burnmotherfucker!]

Idk if this can sustain itself as long as GOT and even if it does it'll be the better part of a decade before we'll be able to compare the two. Regardless of how people feel about the last 3 episodes, GOT was all time great television.

So far this has been great though. I'm surprised I like it as much as I do, I'm wanting the episodes to be longer which is a good sign for the show. I'm also finding Daemon Targaryen to be the most interesting character by far. Gonna be fun to root for the villain/anti-hero/redemption arc/whatever he ends up being. The fun part is idk yet.

But can we get real for a sec? We all know the standard that was set in season one's penultimate episode of GOT. So, which character is going to eat it this season that none of us see coming? At this point I feel like either Daemon or Rhaenyra are going to get the axe. I don't think any of the other character's deaths would have the same gravity as you know who from GOT season 1. Book people, please don't spoil it for me, I have no idea what happens.

[marodi]

I'm trying to post dragons and the internet is messing with me.

Dragons, take 2:

714

Great! Dragons! Dany had mosquito size dragons. That is all.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

I'm trying to post dragons and the internet is messing with me.

Dragons, take 2:

714

Great! Dragons! Dany had mosquito size dragons. That is all.

Gorgeous! I am dying to see The Black Dread (Balerion) in action, at least in a flashback or something. The fact that its fire was colored black says it all.

One aspect that HOTD I think lacks is when they obtain that connection with said Dragon that they're riding. Some cool stuff seems to be happening behind the scenes with that.

[marodi]

Gorgeous! I am dying to see The Black Dread (Balerion) in action, at least in a flashback or something. The fact that its fire was colored black says it all.

One aspect that HOTD I think lacks is when they obtain that connection with said Dragon that they're riding. Some cool stuff seems to be happening behind the scenes with that.

Yeah, I found that on a 2 years old thread on Reddit. The person who made it did so about the time the books (Fire and Blood) came out. I would also love to see a flashback scene with Balerion!

In the last episode, Daemon's wife, Laena' was riding Vhagar. I too love the fact that the Targaryen children are given a dragon egg who, if it hatches, become their dragon. That's great lore and it reminded me of the direwolve puppies Jon found for the Stark kids.

Speaking of Jon Snow, his great-great-great (etc) grand-dad King Viserys is literally being killed slowly by the Iron Throne. Like Jon, Viserys is a good man but a terrible leader. Instead of making the hard decisions, he's trying to please everyone to keep the peace and, of course, it's not working.

[Kodiak33]

I'm still loving this show, there hasn't been a meh one yet.

I don't know what the critics were thinking at all.

[burnmotherfucker!]

I'm still loving this show, there hasn't been a meh one yet.

I don't know what the critics were thinking at all.

I actually think episode 6 was my least favorite episode so far. The time jump and all the recasts just killed the momentum that had been building but I guess it is necessary with them telling a multi-generational story that spans 2 centuries. Probably the first of many major time jumps/recasts.

With all that said I still really enjoyed the episode. What critics are you referring to exactly? I've seen pretty much nothing but praise for the show the whole way through so far.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Speaking of Jon Snow, his great-great-great (etc) grand-dad King Viserys is literally being killed slowly by the Iron Throne. Like Jon, Viserys is a good man but a terrible leader. Instead of making the hard decisions, he's trying to please everyone to keep the peace and, of course, it's not working.

Agreed! I loved the scene when Rhaenyra is trying to play damage control to Alicent at the high table, and Viserys is just so blind to what is going on right in front of him and is pretty much like, ahhh yes! Splendid idea! Lolol.

[burnmotherfucker!]

If last weeks episode was my least favorite, this week was my favorite so far. A part of me thinks the show has pacing issues but it also makes it fun to watch it unfold this fast. It lacks the excellent character development that GOT had in spades, think Arya and the Hound, Jon and the Wildlings, Tyrion, Jamie and Brianne etc. We don't get into the heads of these new characters in that way at all really and I miss that but at the same time not really knowing what they are thinking at any given time makes for compelling political dynamics.

[marodi]

I swear that show keeps getting better and better every episode. Someone please give my man Paddy Considine ALL the awards!

I thought I'd never say this but GO DAEMON! And Aemond is going to be so much trouble.

Only two episodes left!

[burnmotherfucker!]

I swear that show keeps getting better and better every episode. Someone please give my man Paddy Considine ALL the awards!

I thought I'd never say this but GO DAEMON! And Aemond is going to be so much trouble.

Only two episodes left!

Never has an old man walking across a room and up some small stairs to sit in a chair made me feel emotional lol


Daemon's been my favorite character all along and I was worried after the last couple episodes that he'd gotten softer in his old age, glad to see that isn't the case.

This show, even with too many time jumps and recasts to count, has still managed to set the table for one hell of a conflict. And only two episodes to go. There are also characters on both sides I find interesting and there a lot of moves to be made. Most likely shit is going to go down fast and I can't wait. Fire up the popcorn.

[poinoup]

Well, at least Vaemond got to keep his tongue.

[Ruined]

Wow, save for a few scenes outside, this show still has terrible lighting issues. For such a big budget could they light the interior of the castle with more than one candle? It's ridiculous.

[marodi]

Yeah there are a lot of people with issues about how dark many scenes are. I must confess that I do not have a problem with this but maybe it's because I'm watching the show in complete darkness? No other source of lightning than the old tv. I don't know...

And someone (who is very badass, I must say) lost a golden opportunity to dracarys a whole lot of problems.

Aemond should be told that his uncle Dae spent the last 16 years reading about history and looking for dragon eggs. Uncle Dae is way ahead of you, Evil Legolas. Uncle Dae stays in silence in the back, watching the pieces of the game move before him, making his presence known only when necessary. He studies and plans...

Let the Dance begin

[Ruined]

Yeah the awesome dragon scene was outstanding. The creepy feet scene? Not so much! One thing's for sure, notwithstanding my lighting gripe, it's been entertaining so far and I look foward to more.

[marodi]

Word is that episode 10 has leaked online and that whole scenes are being uploaded everywhere (even TikTok). So be careful if you want to make it to Sunday night without knowledge.

Remember: the night is dark and full of spoilers.

I usually love spoilers but strangely, for this, I don't really care to hunt them. Heck, I have the book; if I wanted to have spoilers I'd have read it already!

A last note about episode 9: Rhaenys did not want to leave without Meleys the Red Queen because aside for Vhagar, Alicent's kids don't have adult dragons. Older and war experienced dragons are going to be a hot commodity soon.

[Ruined]

Wow that scene with the giant dragon stalking the Prince's smaller one was so damn scary (especially the final reveal of where it was). It reminded me of Jaws, with the sky substituted for the ocean. Outstanding set-up for season 2.

[marodi]

Wow that scene with the giant dragon stalking the Prince's smaller one was so damn scary (especially the final reveal of where it was). It reminded me of Jaws, with the sky substituted for the ocean. Outstanding set-up for season 2.

Especially with that last shot of Rhaenyra; you could almost see a little Daenerys in her face.

And of course Daemon is keeping tracks of all the dragons. He maybe batshit insane but he's not stupid. The dragon he's singing to is Vermithor, whose last rider was the king before Viserys. So Vermithor is old, only a bit smaller than Vhagar and hasn't had a rider in a long time. Daemon is most likely getting him used to human presence again so someone can claim him and become his new rider.

What an episode that was.

[Kodiak33]

Especially with that last shot of Rhaenyra; you could almost see a little Daenerys in her face.

And of course Daemon is keeping tracks of all the dragons. He maybe batshit insane but he's not stupid. The dragon he's singing to is Vermithor, whose last rider was the king before Viserys. So Vermithor is old, only a bit smaller than Vhagar and hasn't had a rider in a long time. Daemon is most likely getting him used to human presence again so someone can claim him and become his new rider.

What an episode that was.

This was a really incredible first season IMO, rivaling many GoT earlier seasons. They didn't have as much room to breathe with little side stories or whatever, but it was still amazing.

[burnmotherfucker!]

Yeah I thought this first season was great. Nothing in it anywhere near the impact of Ned in GOT season one, and this show still has a long way to go if its going to try and be that good. But it is definitely good enough and I want to watch season 2 already.

[wizfan]

For a show that had so many time jumps, characters and plots, well... it still felt like House of the Drag-On to me. Cheap, dull and felt like it was directed on auto-pilot. Very few episodes made me feel anything at all, and I didn't care about most of the characters. Paddy Considine and Olivia Cooke were the only reasons I kept watching; even Rhys Ifans and Matt Smith weren't enough to keep me invested in their roles. If there was a Razzie for Worst TV Actress of the Year, Sonoya Mizuno should take it. Ramin Djawadi was clearly phoning it in. I'll still watch season 2 because I'm a bit optimistic about it, but, still... I don't think the GRRM world has anything else to give me other than shock value, bad CGI dragons and grey imagery.

[muad'nin]

For a show that had so many time jumps, characters and plots, well... it still felt like House of the Drag-On to me. Cheap, dull and felt like it was directed on auto-pilot. Very few episodes made me feel anything at all, and I didn't care about most of the characters. Paddy Considine and Olivia Cooke were the only reasons I kept watching; even Rhys Ifans and Matt Smith weren't enough to keep me invested in their roles. If there was a Razzie for Worst TV Actress of the Year, Sonoya Mizuno should take it. Ramin Djawadi was clearly phoning it in. I'll still watch season 2 because I'm a bit optimistic about it, but, still... I don't think the GRRM world has anything else to give me other than shock value, bad CGI dragons and grey imagery.

Not sure I’ve ever disagreed with a post as much as I do with this one, hahaha!

[marodi]

https://youtu.be/HQ8H5gqGA34?si=cz0DaIR9g56cwg0L

Dragons! Inbred people! But DRAGONS!

I'm watching GoT again, right now, because I'm bored. I'm finding myself thinking "Jon, my boy, it would be nice of you to channel your great great great etc grand uncle (or grand dad? Inbreeding is hard to follow) Daemon right now!" But what did he know...

[marodi]

Season 2 started Sunday night. Am I the only one still watching? Because we are definitely back in Westeros; where very bad things happen... No one is safe.

Also: Winterfell! The Wall! A Stark who says that winter is coming!

ICE! In one piece!

DRAGONS!

[damon.freinik]

I held off on watching this as GOT got kinda wack towards the end. I must say the first season trimmed off the nonsense and kept it a bit more concise. Looking forward to seeing where this one goes.