What values does NIN stand for?

[ericy210]

Here's a question I was thinking a lot about, and I'm curious what you think. What value(s) do you think NIN stands for, if you had to sum it all up? I think it's overcoming adversity. "The way out it through" gets to that and sums up a lot of the lyrical content.

[tony.parente]

Being sad, then questioning if you're still relevant.

[mfte]

Turning into something after you were taught how to kiss.

[slave2thewage]

Proper Victorian ones.

[Leviathant]

Working really fucking hard.

[slave2thewage]

Working really fucking hard.

But only if you avoid playing "Doom"...

[WorzelG]

Working really fucking hard.

And having half the stuff you worked so hard on never seeing the light of day

[botley]

Can't put it any better than this. From a Spiral webchat in 2006:


Mr_selfdestruct9: This Question is for Aaron, What were the challenges of switching from a Punk rock style band, to a different setting that is Nine Inch Nails?

aaron_north: None. I always kinda thought Nine Inch Nails was punk anyway. Nine Inch Nails is certainly a lot more "punk rock" ethically and stylistically than all of these Fallout Boy, Good Charlotte or whatever poser dipshit bands are on mtv all day waving the punk rock flag anyway. These types of bands have bastardized a term that meant something to an older generation, and it's confused younger kids. Growing up, punk to me meant originality and playing by your own rules. That's what Nine Inch Nails is all about.

Emphasis mine.

[Leviathant]

And having half the stuff you worked so hard on never seeing the light of day

If I can play the "Kids these days" card, I might play the one that says "Not everything you do really needs to see the light of day." I've definitely taken the hard-work page from the NIN playbook to an extent... I try to do a lot of cool things. Some of them get finished, a lot don't. But a lot more cool things happen then if I'm choosy about what I'm working on. Never stop moving!

[joplinpicasso]

(I've been away from the board for a bit, but this thread caught my eye)

Can't agree with Leviathant and botley enough.

Furthermore, I'd like to expand upon the thought of 'overcoming adversity' with this: overcoming adversity and past horrors with a new groove. These horrors could be loss, irrelevance, melancholy, depression, heartbreak, betrayal, anything from the maudlin to the truly dire. And by new groove, I don't mean something glib or corny, I really don't. I mean a new outlook, perspective, observation, revelation, or any form of empowerment, emotional or otherwise. I also think the term fits because of the actual style and context of the music of Nine Inch Nails. This is why NIN has 'aged' with me, so to speak, from high school to college and now years beyond, because the way these trials and successes or failures are expressed are generally timeless for each cultural decade that has passed so far, in my opinion. Strangely, I used a near-identical way to describe Deerhunter's new video on the Yube, and I'm so grateful to Trent for introducing me to another band that stands for similar ...values (including fringe, gender-bending aesthetics).

...

"In Two" could be a thesis critique of this whole mentality.

[mfte]

Hahaha. A Light Of Day reference.

[OSLIN]

9? nine

[redshoewearer]

Excellence and integrity.

[m15a]

i don't think NIN stands for any values. there are themes, but i don't think the music exists to convey themes or feelings or even to be innovative. it does those things, but it's not what it's for.

[sheepdean]

Well, it used to stand for something, now it's on its hands and knees

[Ryan]

9? nine

9.5 ninepointfive

[Emil Dorbell]

9.5 ninepointfive

More like 2.0

[nin5in]

Fuck society and all its bullshit.

[Halo Infinity]

I sometimes thought that some of Nine Inch Nails was also about finding truth, purpose, and meaning in life, sort of in a Richard Dawkins way, especially in regards to organized religion, just in the form of rock music, without any actual conspicuous point of view on what truth and meaning really are, or position of belief or disbelief in something, with the exception of certain political aspects of his songs. I think Nine Inch Nails is also big on creating and finding yourself, while knowing how to stand alone and figuring things out on your own while accepting reality no matter how harsh it might be. You can only go so far if you keep kidding yourself. That has occurred to me several times over the years.

[pigpen]

Turning up the bass so it sounds less shitty.

[InvitingmeAway]

Get some flesh caught in this big broken machine

[nooneimportant]

Shutting the god damn door.

[piggy]

I think you could say that NIN stands for the struggle to understand the human condition and for being truthful and honest about what can lurk in our hearts and minds, even if those things can sometimes be totally ugly. I tend to think of NIN as pretty existentialist music, which the world could probably use more of, IMO. I think it would also not be off the mark to say that in terms of the music industry, NIN has always stood for blazing trails and pushing the envelope.

[icklekitty]

Male heterosexual insecurity

[The Master]

Fist fucking!

[Halo Infinity]

Being sad, then questioning if you're still relevant.
Along with life as you know it. :p

[Halo Infinity]

9? nine
It's either that, or 22.86. :p

[Halo Infinity]

Here's a question I was thinking a lot about, and I'm curious what you think. What value(s) do you think NIN stands for, if you had to sum it all up? I think it's overcoming adversity. "The way out it through" gets to that and sums up a lot of the lyrical content.
I can't believe that I forgot to say this right away, but I also got that from Everything and Various Methods Of Escape.

[FernandoDante]

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BDSM
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a

[SarahConnor]

I saw a youtube comment that tidily sums this up: "Trent's not so angry anymore he just wants everybody to bang" re: All Time Low. Well-said.

[Charmingly Miserable]

Trying to stay irrelevantly relevant.

[jubilee]

Trent is an amazing poet, poetry is about communicating thoughts/mental processes and feelings in a way that hasn't been used before to describe those things.
Trent does this. I think NIN stands for alot of things

[Halo Infinity]

Definitely quality over quantity. In 24 years, we probably could've had 10-15+ albums by now, but many fans would probably argue that they wouldn't be as good. Who knows? Really? But it's sometimes nice to think about. :p

As for Trent Reznor working hard, he's definitely been consistent if you check out his resume outside of NIN even back in 1995-1998. He hasn't missed a beat, considering how he was responsible for helping out Marilyn Manson bigtime back in those days, as well as working on both the Natural Born Killers and Lost Highway soundtracks.

Even the time spent in 2000-2004 wasn't that bad if you think about it, as And All That Could Have Been (Live/Still) was a great way to hold fans over until 2005, and he made Deep in 2001, and by 2005 until now, he's been as prolific as a regular band and probably did more work than ever in between 2009-2012 with How To Destroy Angels and working on music for both The Social Network and The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. I think I want to take a hard-work page from the NIN playbook myself as it would help me make something positive out of my "All-Or-Nothing" personality, which I think Trent Reznor sort of has too.

And please pardon me if you hate Fort Minor, but perhaps this montage can sum it all too? ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQNlrMW1Vvk

[ibanez33]

Definitely quality over quantity.

http://dl.nin.com/style/ninslip/images/album-splash.jpg

[Halo Infinity]

I'm guessing that you probably didn't really like The Slip? I thought it was okay, and I still have some favorite songs from The Slip. However, I could also understand why it was considered by some to be one of the weaker, or even weakest release from NIN.

[Krazy]

9? nine


http://youtu.be/3F0rPFASUXY

[Halo Infinity]

That it's completely okay to be different, look different and think different. To just be you, and do you, no matter what others think, especially if you aren't hurting anybody and/or doing anything wrong. That dark thoughts and emotions can have positive and healthy results when utilized in a constructive, creative and productive manner. The same could be said about other musicians too, as I don't mean to undermine their values either, but Nine Inch Nails has definitely struck that chord with me a lot, especially when I take a good look at Broken, The Downward Spiral and The Fragile, and then With Teeth, Year Zero, Ghosts I-IV and Hesitation Marks.

It occurred to me a lot sooner, but I somehow forgot about this topic for quite a while.

[GlitchyFlame]

Getting fucked by the devil in the back of his car.

[implanted_microchip]

Kris PM'd me about this topic because he's a cool guy and likes how I put words next to each other sometimes, so here I go:

I don't see Trent as the kind of person to be proclaiming some grand message intentionally with all of his work, or trying to instill some moral or anything like that by and large. Aside from Year Zero, the vast majority of NIN songs are deeply personal in content/subject matter. The Becoming really drives that home, and makes it arguably the most "private" song Trent's put lyrics to, directly referencing a specific person from his life. In a way you could say it shuts the listener off from the content to a point, but I've always found it to be more inclusive, like we're being allowed to see pretty much everything Trent Reznor's going through, thinking and feeling, without any direct limits at times.

But along the way there's obviously meaning and messages that get conveyed, I just don't see Trent as being someone writing lyrics with the listener in mind as much as himself in mind. Trent doesn't sing about "you" often, and when he says "you" it always feels directed at someone or something specific (or at himself when he's personifying his depression/addiction, which I talked a good bit about in the Is NIN Negative thread). Instead there's a whole lot of "I" songs. The only album I'd say is really made with others in mind in terms of meaning or point is Year Zero, and even then it's about his very personal vision and narrative, his personal fears and concerns.

I've always felt that the values that get passed along are really in context with Trent's life and survival(ism), and those are of perseverance, overcoming obstacles, struggling through the worst times, even if you can't guess if it'll ever really get better. That it's worth staying alive and surviving for the sake of being a person, that sometimes the worst things in life let us know we're still human and alive and breathing and not made up of wires. There's a message of accepting the truth of things, even when it's unpleasant, of not conforming and that it's damaging to try to confine yourself and fit in ("Watching all the insects march along, seem to know just right where they belong"), the value of emotions really.

If I had to give one word it'd be endurance. The Fragile is an album all about a guy staying alive even when he wishes to be anything but, of a man struggling to make it through but still crawling. The Downward Spiral has a narrator who gives it up and completely destroys everything about himself in disgust, anger and depression, and the entirety of Hurt is practically a denouement of it. "If I could start again, A million miles away, I would keep myself, I would find a way." Even Year Zero, an incredibly political album that strays really far from the sorts of songs lyrically that Trent typically writes, still deals with people fighting against a seemingly undefeatable obstacle, going on in the face of a literal apocalypse. In This Twilight sings about trying to find a better place and better selves and embracing their humanity as they watch the world literally end, Zero-Sum sings about being unafraid because of togetherness and connections to those around you and going forward to the very end, even if it's in the seemingly vain hope of there being something more, of being together again if we will be anything at all.

And that really fits the other thing I'd say that NIN's overall music shows the need for, and that's connectivity. Of needing to be connected to others. On the (very long) list of problems Trent sings of, isolation/loneliness might be the most overall common, whether it be self-appointed or forced by others. A lot of his songs mention being surrounded by others and yet feeling alone, feeling like you're still on the outside; With Teeth as an album entirely shows that very well, opening observing others as marching along, and then singing of everyday life being monotonous and numbing, of putting in the effort to go on and be around others being exhausting and impossible to get through on Getting Smaller, of shoving everyone and everything possible away from yourself until you convince yourself that you're all there really is on Only, you're the only one that matters or is really important. And the answer to all that misery is finding connections to people that are meaningful and enriching, of filling that void.

What I love about a lot of NIN's lyrics is that Trent never says "Here's the answer," and never said in any NIN album "This is what NIN is, this is what I stand for," instead he often offers up scenarios, issues and questions, and that makes the listener have to think and consider and answer them for yourselves. Trent never said, "This is how you overcome addiction," instead he sang about struggling to do it, he never said "This is how you stop feeling lonely," instead he sang about the feeling and of trying to fight out of it, he never said "This is how you get happy," he just sang about longing for it. Out of all that we kind of get to figure it out for ourselves.

I really love that when I listen to Nine Inch Nails I don't feel preached to, I feel like I have an arm being put around my shoulder and a good friend looking at me and saying, "Hey, me too, I get it, I feel it too. I don't know any better than you how to handle these things or deal with them, but I'm trying to find my way too. We're in this together."

[Dryalex12]

Soon.........

[Ryan]

Perfectionism and quality.

[Dr Channard]

I don’t know if it’s a value, but early on I appreciated that Trent carved out his own pocket of success without imitating what was hugely popular at the time. AIC, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, these guys were blowing up pretty big in the early to mid 90’s, it may have been an easier road to success to just imitate that sound. Groups like STP, Silverchair, and Bush picked up that grunge sound early on and ran with it to achieve modest success, not to discredit these groups who were each talented in their own ways. But in my mind one of the things that made nin and Trent stand out among his contemporaries was that what he did with his albums was explore the themes and sounds that interested him, and not just copy stuff from the current top 40 charts, or even past success of his own.

[Halo Infinity]

I thought about this thread after somehow having this idea come to mind. Perhaps striving to find love, truth (Whether it be social issues, religion, politics, or even one's self as person.) and courage might also count. Rising above being motivated and controlled by hatred, blind arrogance/pride, deceit and fear, especially in this type of world while being honest and humble enough to accept your flaws and being mindful to see things as they are in spite of your own obstacles, horrors, faults and problems.

And all in all, it being a work in progress.

The particular line from Burning Bright (Field on Fire), "It has been so long and I am stronger than I have ever been in my decline." and "I am forgiven. I am free. I am a field of fire.", as well as All The Love In The World and Love Is Not Enough got me to ponder about this.

With that particular line, I'm guessing the courage is what lead him to be stronger than he ever was in his decline. He has also forgiven himself because for quite a while, he's learned more and more to love himself than ever before. And without love, there can be no forgiveness of any kind, especially to one's self. I also for quite some time, thought courage was just about being brave, but it also means to continue on in spite of all the fear and uncertainty. (Which is also falls under a lot of the major themes, thoughts and emotions Trent has written about before.)

I'm guessing his pursuit of love and courage has lead him to that, and what has also helped him survive "Everything".

I seriously think this is why Burning Bright (Field on Fire) can actually make me cry depending on my mood. (Even tears of joy. I love that song live too.) Sometimes when you lose perspective of such things, which clearly is anything but simple in the moment, who the hell knows where any of us could end up? Or if we'd even continue to exist at all. That's kind of what I got from it, since Not The Actual Events and Add Violence are referring to his past work. Trent sometimes probably wonders how else it would've turned out and could very well be grateful for where courage and love (Plus getting married and having children.) sent him.

I also know that some parts of this post are more on the personal interpretation side of things, but I'm guessing this could be what some of the values NIN might be about. (I'm also aware that I might've mentioned some of these things before, but this is more specifically geared towards being encourage to strive for love and courage in spite of how messed up the human condition and the world can be sometimes.)

[neorev]

The values of Apple

[WorzelG]

The values of Apple
It feels to me like these last 2 EPs are a reaction to the Apple environment.

[mostlymad]

For me, it was the struggle to find and maintain authenticity. In 1995, an older coworker of mine hounded me about why I would choose to listen to something with such negative connotations and feelings as The Downward Spiral. Even now, it's hard to explain why I'd rather confront the unpleasant nature of humanity, and how it has always galvanized me to *do something about it.* I'm all about listening to lighthearted "Stop" by Erasure or some dancy ABBA, sometimes. However, there is a sense of comfort knowing I'm not the only one who's been exposed to a lot of shit in life, too. It's a raw emotion that actually reminds me that I am alive. I need that sometimes. The need to be authentic in life, and to hold ourselves accountable will ensure we build each other up, and learn how to thrive, and not just survive.

[GentlemanLoser]

NIN stands with Stevie Nicks for affordable Mexican cuisine:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc2hjy

[TheNullCorporation]

Chaos.

[Kyle]

And having half the stuff you worked so hard on never seeing the light of day

Let me introduce you to Prince's vault

[Halo Infinity]

I've been thinking about NIN standing for the raging battles and wars between good and evil. Sometimes externally, but also internally. It's a reminder that sometimes our own worst enemies are ourselves and are own worst prisons, torture chambers and poisons are both our minds and hearts.

This is in some ways, why NIN's music helps me not feel so alone sometimes, since somebody as awesome as Trent has admitted to going through similar emotional and mental struggles I've encountered. I also liked how humbled he was from his fans and how much he appreciates our support. Speaking of being humbled, that too is a battle, since you don't want to be too down on yourself, nor do you want to be too gassed up either, which might be what some of the songs have been hinting at. I could've sworn that he was pleasantly surprised to see that he still had a huge following, and that was just when The Fragile came out because he wondered if people still cared as much or even cared at all 5 years after TDS.