General Police Misconduct aka Murdering Black People

[allegro]

His training report was allegdly forged so he could carry a gun. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3041883/Sheriff-s-accused-forging-training-records-millionaire-73-year-old-deputy-shot-dead-suspect-mistake.html)

Ugh, God, what the fuck.

[DigitalChaos]

He is an OLD MAN who should NOT have a gun. I guess he PAID them to let him be a reservist. A taser and a gun aren't even HELD the same way, they don't feel the same way.

They have like 100 volunteer cops out there. It's not an unusual situation. As for the taser vs gun, the mixup happens. Look up Oscar Grant. I pass through the BART station he was killed at every day. It's a good reminder of this. When you are pulling out a weapon, it's reflex. You could swap their gun out with a banana and some cops wouldn't notice until they pull the nonexistent trigger, in rapid deployment situations. Throw in some adrenaline and your dexterity is nonexistent. That's why it's common to have the taser holstered on the opposite side that your gun is.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant
There are multiple videos of the incident. The cop told other cops to back off so he could taser Grant. Then Grant got a bullet in the back and the cop looked visibly surprised. I'll dig one of the videos up when I'm not on my phone.

[DigitalChaos]

Well shit. I actually submitted that post while stopped at the Fruitvale station. That was fucking... I don't know.

[allegro]

That's why it's common to have the taser holstered on the opposite side that your gun is.
BINGO.

The old man still shouldn't have had a gun, he should have been retired. I'm not ageist, it's just that once you are that age your judgment in those situations and your reaction ability is greatly impaired. It's why your CAR INSURANCE is way higher.

[DigitalChaos]

christ
This is what happens when you get a good dispatcher (warning the cop in advance) and a cop who was trained in the marines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhJKyK6VqDI

[allegro]

christ
This is what happens when you get a good dispatcher (warning the cop in advance) and a cop who was trained in the marines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhJKyK6VqDI


Now THAT is GOOD POLICE WORK. BRAVO to that police officer, awesome work, dude!!

edit: most of the YouTube comments are saying the cop would have shot the suspect if the suspect was a black dude.

[tony.parente]

Ugh that situation sucked, it was very good that the cop didn't knee jerk shoot the guy because it became very clear the dude didn't have a weapon and it was also very clear the cop wasn't going to shoot him. That was a very poor attempt at suicide by cop and it's really sad.

[allegro]

Here's the text that comes with the video:

Published on Apr 18, 2015'

'I don't wanna shoot you man'

Ohio cop refuses to open fire on murder suspect begging to be shot:

'I Wanted to Be Absolutely Sure', New Richmond Police Officer Jesse Kidder Refuses to shoot man asking to be shot (full video). This is How Good Cops Act: Heroic Officer Refuses to Shoot Man Despite Dangerous Confrontation.

Ohio Cop Refuses to Resort to Deadly Force

(NBC News) A rookie Ohio cop is being praised for "great restraint and maturity" after he held off using deadly force against a double murder suspect who charged at him, his police chief said.

In a confrontation Thursday with a man accused of killing his fiancee and his best friend, New Richmond Police Officer Jesse Kidder is heard on his body-camera video yelling, "No man, I'm not going to do it!" and ordering the suspect to get down on the ground.

The suspect rushes toward him shouting, "Shoot me, shoot me!"
"Back up!" screams Kidder, holding his gun out. The man finally crumples to the ground just feet away from the officer in the video taken in the Cincinnati suburb of Elsmere, Kentucky.

Investigators say Michael Wilcox killed his fiancee in their Brown County, Ohio, home, then killed his best friend in Elsmere, reported NBC affiliate WLWT in Cincinnati, which first obtained the body-camera video. A Brown County investigator spotted Wilcox Thursday night at about 8 p.m. and attempted to stop him, but Wilcox claimed he had a gun and drove away, officials said.

He was then followed by New Richmond police on a car chase through multiple counties on the Ohio-Kentucky border before Kidder caught Wilcox and arrested him.

The nonviolent confrontation caught on video has been highlighted as a positive example of police officer encounters nationwide. Their actions have been blemished by shootings of unarmed men, including a deadly officer shooting earlier this month in South Carolina.

Officers' use of force has been the subject of protests since last August, when white police officer Darren Wilson shot and killed black teenager Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. Wilson was not wearing a body camera, which raised questions about what exactly led him to shoot and whether all police officers should be outfitted with the tiny video recorders.
In the Kentucky case, the suspect was believed to be armed and is heard threatening the officer on the video.

"For him to make the judgment call that he did shows great restraint and maturity," New Richmond Police Chief Randy Harvey told WLWT about Kidder, who's been on the force for a year. "This video footage, it eliminated all doubt that this officer would have been justified if in fact it came to a shooting."

Kidder, who did two tours of duty in Iraq as a Marine and is a Purple Heart recipient, told WLWT that a relative had given him a body camera to use at work after the Ferguson shooting.

During the confrontation Thursday, 911 dispatchers told Kidder that Wilcox could have a gun under his seat and may be threatening suicide-by-cop, according to WLWT. Kidder said since he knew backup was coming shortly, he held off shooting Wilcox.

"I was trying to open a dialogue with him. 'I don't want to shoot you, get on the ground,' but he wasn't having it. He kept repeating, 'Shoot me.' At one point, he said 'Shoot me or I'll shoot you,'" Kidder told WLWT.
The situation escalated: Wilcox put his hand in his pocket and again charged at Kidder — who is seen on the video tripping and falling backwards.

"He got towards my face right as I lost balance," Kidder told WLWT. "I'm thinking at this point that if he goes into attack me, that I'll have to use deadly force to defend myself."

But he waited.

"Law enforcement officers all across the nation have to deal with split-second decisions that mean life or death. I wanted to be absolutely sure before I used deadly force," he said.

Backup arrived just in time, and Wilcox surrendered.

Harvey said he hopes to obtain funding to get body cameras for the rest of the police force.

Dwayne Wenninger, sheriff in Brown County, said in a statement that Wilcox confessed to and has been charged with murder for the death of his fiancee, Courtney Fowler, and is also under suspicion for the friend's death. Fowler died of gunshot wounds, the statement said.

[Deepvoid]

Chicago police officer involved in the fatal shooting of 22-year-old Rekia Boyd acquitted by county judge. (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/21/3649043/judge-lets-cop-walk-deadly-shooting-thought-charges-werent-severe-enough/)

But Porter’s ruling was particularly confounding because of bizarre reasoning that some legal experts are calling “incredible.” In an opinion (https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/262501080?access_key=key-uUGoveMcL8MOcxruq33y&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll) that lamented Servin was never charged with the more severe crimes of first- and second-degree murder, Porter suggested he was acquitting Servin and sending him home without any punishment because the involuntary manslaughter charge against him was actually not severe enough.

Porter, the Cook County judge presiding over the case, agreed that Servin was acting intentionally when he fired his gun. In fact, he said in his ruling, Illinois courts have long held that when a defendant “intends to fire a gun, points it in the general direction of his or her intended victim, and shoots, such conduct is not merely reckless,” but “intentional” and “the crime, if any there be, is first degree murder.”

In a bizarre turn of reasoning, Porter suggests that since the first-degree murder charge is not on the table, and the crimes with which he was charged — involuntary manslaughter and reckless discharge of a gun — require that Servin was reckless, Servin cannot be convicted of any crime at all.

[Jon]

Chicago police officer involved in the fatal shooting of 22-year-old Rekia Boyd acquitted by county judge. (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/21/3649043/judge-lets-cop-walk-deadly-shooting-thought-charges-werent-severe-enough/)

But Porter’s ruling was particularly confounding because of bizarre reasoning that some legal experts are calling “incredible.” In an opinion (https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/262501080?access_key=key-uUGoveMcL8MOcxruq33y&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll) that lamented Servin was never charged with the more severe crimes of first- and second-degree murder, Porter suggested he was acquitting Servin and sending him home without any punishment because the involuntary manslaughter charge against him was actually not severe enough.

Porter, the Cook County judge presiding over the case, agreed that Servin was acting intentionally when he fired his gun. In fact, he said in his ruling, Illinois courts have long held that when a defendant “intends to fire a gun, points it in the general direction of his or her intended victim, and shoots, such conduct is not merely reckless,” but “intentional” and “the crime, if any there be, is first degree murder.”

In a bizarre turn of reasoning, Porter suggests that since the first-degree murder charge is not on the table, and the crimes with which he was charged — involuntary manslaughter and reckless discharge of a gun — require that Servin was reckless, Servin cannot be convicted of any crime at all.

Not sure how double jeopardy works in this case: can't they just retry with a charge of first-degree murder? The prosecution would have transcripts of the judge's own words...

I realize re-trials are a slippery slope after this point and usually only make for good TV drama.

[Deepvoid]

You cannot charge someone twice for the same offense.

Etienne [law professor] points out several adverse consequences that would result if Porter’s understanding of the law prevailed. A defendant charged with involuntary manslaughter could get on the stand and make the very argument Porter now makes: I am not guilty of a crime of recklessness because I did this on purpose. “And by the way my trial has started so double jeopardy. You can’t go back and charge me with an intentional killing.”

@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) have you had the chance to review the judgment? Thought this case would interest you.

[allegro]

@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) have you had the chance to review the judgment? Thought this case would interest you.
Yes, that Judge is a typical Judge protecting shitty cops. He could have spun it that the cop shot at the wrong person, recklessly. But, mostly, Anita Alvarez is an asshole. She always files stupid charges, often against the wrong people. She should lose her job.

Read this (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/21/1379311/-It-s-NOT-a-Terrible-Verdict-in-Chicago-over-Cop-Murdering-22-year-old#).

The woman is an assault to civil liberties (http://jonathanturley.org/2012/12/02/supreme-failure-chicagos-anita-alvarez-and-the-campaign-to-criminalize-citizen-monitoring-of-police/). Here, read this (http://naarpr.org/open-letter-to-anita-alvarez/).

[binaryhermit]

Not to mention that Cook County is practically the false confession capital of the world

[allegro]

Not to mention that Cook County is practically the false confession capital of the world

Well, it WAS until they got rid of John Burge (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/14/chicago-to-pay-reparations-jon-burge-police-torture-victims/25766531/).

[allegro]

Yes, that Judge is a typical Judge protecting shitty cops. He could have spun it that the cop shot at the wrong person, recklessly. But, mostly, Anita Alvarez is an asshole. She always files stupid charges, often against the wrong people. She should lose her job.

Read this (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/21/1379311/-It-s-NOT-a-Terrible-Verdict-in-Chicago-over-Cop-Murdering-22-year-old#).

The woman is an assault to civil liberties (http://jonathanturley.org/2012/12/02/supreme-failure-chicagos-anita-alvarez-and-the-campaign-to-criminalize-citizen-monitoring-of-police/). Here, read this (http://naarpr.org/open-letter-to-anita-alvarez/).

Listening to a great WBEZ piece on this right now, and retired JUDGE and two former criminal defense attorneys say that Alvarez UNDERCHARGED in this case, and that State's attorney always OVERCHARGE.

Look at this (http://www.handsupunited.org/blog/2015/4/24/smoking-gun-prosecutor-anita-alvarez-deliberately-undercharged-officer-who-killed-rekia-boyd), one expert on the WBEZ panel cited the Adorno case. Wtf.


On January 23rd, 2010 Miguel Adorno fired his gun under his arm, much like Dante Servin claimed to, at a party in Chicago. A bullet from Adorno hit Shannon Fanning in the arm. Nobody died, but Miguel Adorno was charged and convicted with attempted murder and given a mandatory 15 year sentence in prison.

On June 14th, 2013, Miguel Adorno appealed this decision stating that he was overcharged and over sentenced for something was purely reckless. When you see what the state argued, it'll blow your mind.


According to defendant's testimony, the people chasing him were right on his heels, therefore defendant knew he was firing the weapon in their direction when he reached into the trunk and fired the gun under his arm without looking.

Illinois courts have clearly and consistently held that when a defendant points a firearm in the direction of an intended victim and fires the weapon, he has not acted recklessly.

People v. Sipp, 378 Ill. App. 3d 157, 166 (2007). Because defendant knowingly fired his gun in the direction of the crowd, a reckless conduct instruction was not appropriate. We do not find the court abused its discretion in refusing to instruct the jury on reckless conduct....

The evidence elicited in this case shows that defendant knew the victim and others were present in the general vicinity of the apartment building, and defendant fired his weapon multiple times in their direction....

Furthermore, specific intent to take a human life is a material element of the offense of attempted murder, but the very fact of firing a gun at a person supports the conclusion that the person doing so acted with the intent to kill.

In other words, the state argued that it would be wrong to charge Miguel Adorno with anything less than a murder charge since he knowingly fired his gun into a crowd. His appeal was denied and he is in prison to this very day serving 15 years for shooting someone in the arm.

Yet, States Attorney Anita Alvarez, who willfully charged Miguel Adorno with attempted murder and cited case after case in his appeal, for why shooting his gun into a crowd required a felony murder charge, then contradicted her very own legal precedent by charging Officer Dante Servin with recklessness in a case in which he not only shot someone in their arm, but also shot Rekia Boyd in the head and killed her.

Are you following me here?

Anita Alvarez not only knew it was wrong to charge Officer Servin with the lesser crime of recklessness, she has a documented history of making the case that shooting into a crowd requires one to be charged with murder.

[tony.parente]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/11048790_10152893313817831_9193075686713095235_o.j pg
Lets all take a moment to reflect on everything that's wrong with the current protest movement.

[Sarah K]

Let's continue to ignore that that behavior has absolutely nothing to do with protesting.

[Deepvoid]

Looters aren't protesters.

Those are http://blackwestchester.com/2015/04/27/10000-peacefully-protest-bmore/
Obviously, covering 10,000 peaceful protesters is boring news. Having a handful of protesters setting cars on fire is not only good TV but good for the ratings, which equals more money for the network.

[Khrz]

Lets all take a moment to reflect on everything that's wrong with the current protest movement.

You're being pretty fucking unfair here. Every protest has its batch of looters and losers looking for trouble, every protest has its parasites.
This has nothing to do with the current movement, and everything to do with people exploiting chaos and confusion to their own shitty agenda, taking advantage of the fact that the cops are busy elsewhere.
Pointing out this behavior to diminish the validity of the movement is nothing but a cynical dick move (not saying that's what you're doing, I'm talking about the medias here).

[allegro]

You're being pretty fucking unfair here. Every protest has its batch of looters and losers looking for trouble, every protest has its parasites.
This has nothing to do with the current movement, and everything to do with people exploiting chaos and confusion to their own shitty agenda, taking advantage of the fact that the cops are busy elsewhere.
Pointing out this behavior to diminish the validity of the movement is nothing but a cynical dick move (not saying that's what you're doing, I'm talking about the medias here).

But this country has a really long history of riots and looting; this is not a "current movement" at all.

See this perspective (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/11/26/american-social-movementshavealwaysincludedriots.html).

But, more importantly, this perspective (http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/in-defense-of-looting/).

[Khrz]

But this country has a really long history of riots and looting; this is not a "current movement" at all.

See this perspective (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/11/26/american-social-movementshavealwaysincludedriots.html).

But, more importantly, this perspective (http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/in-defense-of-looting/).

wait, are you contradicting my point while reiterating it ? I'm confused...

[allegro]

wait, are you contradicting my point while reiterating it ? I'm confused...

I think that a lot of African Americans would argue that the looters and fire-starters are not necessarily parasites and losers, but are just another subset of the angry protesters against white supremacy, as per that second article.

This same shit was happening in the 60s; it ain't a "current movement" at all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_riots).

[elevenism]

So i'm a little unnerved by where this is all heading.
A fucking CURFEW? National guard troops?
I think this is a dangerous step down the road to martial law.
And here's what i think is gonna happen tonight. People will NOT obey the curfew. They will be arrested en masse and taken somewhere other than jail like what happened during the 2004 RNC. Do you guys remember that shit? They just swept up whole blocks of protesters.


"People were required to show identification cards or face arrest; the arrested people were not immediately informed of charges against them.The facility was the then-recently closed Hudson Pier Depot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_depots_of_the_New_York_City_Transit_Authority# Hudson_Pier_Depot) at Pier 57 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pier_57) on the Hudson River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_River_(Hudson_River)), a three-story, block-long pier that has been converted into a temporary prison, though unfit for detention of prisoners. Arrested protesters have complained about extremely poor conditions describing it as overcrowded, dirty, and contaminated with oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum) and asbestos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos). People reported having suffered from smell, bad ventilation, and even chemical burns and rashes."




The RNC thing was pretty much swept under the rug. Tonight will be different because the whole world is already watching. What happens will be pivotal.

Doesn't a curfew violate the 1st and 14th amendments? They imposed one in Ferguson for a few days, right? And they used military style armored vehicles and national guard troops to impose it.

But i don't see what is happening in baltimore as an isolated event. I think every incident has heated things up and it's reaching a boiling point at a NATIONAL level. Therefore, i feel that people will be that much more defiant.

I don't know where this is headed, but i don't think it's gonna be anywhere good. I understand the need to stop violence and looting but i'm terrified of the curfew and militarized police.

Like the man said, "he who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves neither and is a tool." He said something along those lines. It was Jefferson or Paine or Jesus, someone like that.

These are just my thoughts. I don't have a CLUE what the right answer is.
ETS is the most intelligent and opinionated group of people with whom i have ever interacted...what do you guys think?

(i refused to end the sentence with a preposition and then abused the ellipses JUST for you @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76))

EDIT: Oh yeah. I also keep thinking about this Watch the Throne video whenever i see the news lately.
Whoever came up with the concept for this video...did they, like, feel it coming? It's eerily accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJt7gNi3Nr4

i'm gonna go listen to baltimore on radioreference.com

[50 Volt Phantom]

A bunch of morons destroying their own communities trying to change the world. Sucks for the people that didn't do dick to them, but I say let them burn all their own shit down. They're only hurting themselves ultimately.

[Baphomette]

So i'm a little unnerved by where this is all heading.
A fucking CURFEW? National guard troops?
I think this is a dangerous step down the road to martial law.Chill, Alex Jones. Same thing happened in '92 during the LA Riots - curfew was set and national guard troops were called in. It's standard protocol. "Martial law" has deposed "FEMA camps" as most popular alarmist phrase.

[onthewall2983]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDukB3_VAAAOwIJ.jpg:large

[allegro]

Chill, Alex Jones. Same thing happened in '92 during the LA Riots - curfew was set and national guard troops were called in. It's standard protocol.

Yeah, same thing when I was a kid during the Detroit riots in '67. My mom broke curfew to go out to the store at night and it freaked us out. "Ahhhhh mom's gonna DIIIIIIIIIIE." TANKS were rolling down the streets.

See also Watts '65
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Au9oohI1MuM

[DigitalChaos]

Yeah, I mean, this is kinda what curfews and martial law are for.
You guys were thinking a bit further back than I was though. I was thinking about Hurricane Katrina when cops were going door to door and confiscating legally owned firearms, executing looters, and all kinds of other horrible rights violations. THAT was much more concerning that martial law being imposed during riots.

[allegro]

Yeah, I mean, this is kinda what curfews and martial law are for.
You guys were thinking a bit further back than I was though. I was thinking about Hurricane Katrina when cops were going door to door and confiscating legally owned firearms, executing looters, and all kinds of other horrible rights violations. THAT was much more concerning that martial law being imposed during riots.
Martial law during riots ain't no picnic, either.

From the 1967 Detroit Riot Wikipedia entry:


Although only 26 of the over 7,000 arrests involved snipers, and not one person accused of sniping was successfully prosecuted, the fear of snipers precipitated many police searches. The "searching for weapons" caused many homes and vehicles to be scrutinized. Curfew violations were also common sparks to police brutality. The Detroit Police's 10th Precinct routinely abused prisoners; as mug shots later proved, many injuries came after booking. Women were stripped and fondled while officers took pictures. An infamous discarded Polaroid was plucked from the garbage and ended up on Mayor Cavanagh's desk. White landlords from New York visiting their building were arrested after a sniper call and beaten so horribly that "their testicles were still black and blue two weeks after the incident."

The most documented event of police brutality was the Algiers Motel Incident. Three black men were found dead in a manor house-turned-motel at Woodward and Virginia Park known for prostitution. Two white, teenaged cosmetology school dropouts recently arrived from Columbus, Ohio, were staying in the motel with local black men when the police and National Guard responded to a call of shots being fired. Evidence presented later suggested that three Detroit police officers called out all occupants of the motel to the main lobby, searched them for weapons, threatened to kill them, and threw knives at their feet in a "game" before searching the rooms for weapons. They shot the men later in two of the rooms and their bodies were discovered later. A police confession to the shooting was later covered up. The journalist John Hersey published a book about the case, The Algiers Motel Incident, in 1968.

[sentient02970]

Reported property damage from just Monday (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-map-mondays-violence-20150427-htmlstory.html)

[elevenism]

Chill, Alex Jones. Same thing happened in '92 during the LA Riots - curfew was set and national guard troops were called in. It's standard protocol. "Martial law" has deposed "FEMA camps" as most popular alarmist phrase.

but there is a difference.
The LA 92 was an isolated incident.
But now, we've had riots after the mike brown case, eric garner, walter scott, and now this. And it seems like it's getting worse every time. And the riots, in my opinion, were not CAUSED by the cases in point. I think that they are the result of tension that has been building for a long, long time, and people have finally fucking had it.

I don't think it's going to stop, and i am concerned for the future.

edit: DigitalChaos , you are right about the katrina thing.
i remember people being shot on sight for entering pharmacies, and some of them were trying to get diapers and such.

[allegro]

but there is a difference.
The LA 92 was an isolated incident.
But now, we've had riots after the mike brown case, eric garner, walter scott, and now this. And it seems like it's getting worse every time. And the riots, in my opinion, were not CAUSED by the cases in point. I think that they are the result of tension that has been building for a long, long time, and people have finally fucking had it.
I don't think it's going to stop, and i am concerned for the future.
These type of riots are just a repeat of the same type of riots we've had in the past because the underlying cause never changed. Police harassment and brutality against blacks sparked the '65 Watts Riot and the '67 Detroit Riot, or riots when MLK was killed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Baltimore_riots), and then the Rodney King Riot in '92, but of course overall racism and ghettoization etc. was also a big part, and these riots seem to happen in cycles, things simmer down for a while but the underlying problem never goes away and nothing changes, at all. And people were concerned about the future, then, too. And 25 years from now, this same thing will happen and you will say, "but this same thing happened in '15" and they will say "but this is different" but it won't be.

Rodney King only appeared to be an "isolated incident" TO YOU, but to a shitload of black Los Angelenos it was Business As Usual and that's why there was a riot. And it just happened to be filmed by somebody, way before the days of cell phone cameras and shit.

[orestes]

^ ^ Re: allegro http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6545/

[elevenism]

These type of riots are just a repeat of the same type of riots we've had in the past because the underlying cause never changed. Police harassment and brutality against blacks sparked the '65 Watts Riot and the '67 Detroit Riot, or riots when MLK was killed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Baltimore_riots), and then the Rodney King Riot in '92, but of course overall racism and ghettoization etc. was also a big part, and these riots seem to happen in cycles, things simmer down for a while but the underlying problem never goes away and nothing changes, at all. And people were concerned about the future, then, too. And 25 years from now, this same thing will happen and you will say, "but this same thing happened in '15" and they will say "but this is different" but it won't be.

Rodney King only appeared to be an "isolated incident" TO YOU, but to a shitload of black Los Angelenos it was Business As Usual and that's why there was a riot. And it just happened to be filmed by somebody, way before the days of cell phone cameras and shit.

ahhhh. interesting. i most definitely see what you mean.

and that article is a trip, @orestes (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4)

the underlying causes from the 1967 study. and they haven't changed.

First Level of Intensity
1. Police practices
2. Unemployment and underemployment
3. Inadequate housing
Second Level of Intensity
4. Inadequate education
5. Poor recreation facilities and programs
6. Ineffectiveness of the political structure and grievance mechanisms.
Third Level of Intensity
7. Disrespectful white attitudes
8. Discriminatory administration of justice
9. Inadequacy of federal programs
10. Inadequacy of municipal services
11. Discriminatory consumer and credit practices
12. Inadequate welfare programs

[allegro]

^ ^ Re: allegro http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6545/
Yes, exactly.

I think I linked this story on this board somewhere, before (http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/chicago-politics-segregation-african-american-black-white-hispanic-latino-population-census-community/Content?oid=3221712). Fascinating (and sad) stuff.

[Baphomette]

the '65 Watts Riot and the '67 Detroit Riot, or riots when MLK was killed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Baltimore_riots), and then the Rodney King Riot in '92You mean the LA Riots?


^ ^ Re: @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6545/Underlying causes haven't changed but, as there is now a third society que esta presente, there are additional problems. I don't think anyone foresaw that the Latino population would eventually outnumber the Black population.

Coincidentally, today is the 20th 23rd anniversary of the LA Riots.

[allegro]

Miss Baphomette I mean the 1992 Rodney King Riot (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots) in LA which was 23 years ago and was sparked by the same police brutality (and cops getting away with it) that is being protested right now.

[Baphomette]

@Miss Baphomette (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=11) I mean the 1992 Rodney King Riot (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots) in LA which was 23 years ago and sparked by the same police brutality (and cops getting away with it) that is being protested right now.I knew what you meant. :) They're really not referred to as the Rodney King Riots (even that wiki entry uses an aka) since, as you know, the King verdict was only the spark.

[allegro]

I knew what you meant. :) They're really not referred to as the Rodney King Riots (even that wiki entry uses an aka) since, as you know, the King verdict was only the spark.

Like it or not, the riot will forever be tied to Rodney King because those cops getting acquitted started the rioting. Of course it happened in LA, but the whole world SAW THAT VIDEO and that had never really happened, before, let alone cops walking free even with the video. People couldn't really blame the rioting people for being really fucking pissed. It wasn't quite the same as Watts in being a general sense of police brutality: 92 was a SPECIFIC REACTION to a verdict, just like we are seeing now in Baltimore. Nitpicking or even a sense of pride ("LA Riots, gotta be sure LA is mentioned" even though it is a given) seems weird right now in the context of the discussion. The other historic riots like Newark or Detroit or Watts didn't have a person or verdict attached to the riots. But the disturbance in St Louis will always have the name Michael Brown attached to it. Rodney King was the poster child of that riot, even though he didn't really want that. The riot led to some big shakeups, too! It is sad that it took a riot and death and destruction to bring change.

[Baphomette]

Like it or not, the riot will forever be tied to Rodney King because those cops getting acquitted started the rioting. Of course it happened in LA, but the whole world SAW THAT VIDEO and that had never really happened, before, let alone cops walking free even with the video. People couldn't really blame the rioting people for being really fucking pissed. It wasn't quite the same as Watts in being a general sense of police brutality: 92 was a SPECIFIC REACTION to a verdict, just like we are seeing now in Baltimore. Nitpicking or even a sense of pride ("LA Riots, gotta be sure LA is mentioned" even though it is a given) seems weird right now in the context of the discussion. The other historic riots like Newark or Detroit or Watts didn't have a person or verdict attached to the riots. But the disturbance in St Louis will always have the name Michael Brown attached to it.A sense of pride is definitely not the reason I mentioned it. It just struck *me* as weird that you were referring to them as such. Back then, conservative media outlets used the phrase "Rodney King Riot(s)" in their attempts to diminish the uprising because King had a police record. So, how could anyone support people who were supporting this criminal? I suppose it's just a bit of a tender spot.

Additionally, I was thinking about the fanzine I used to publish. We did a "Riot" issue and there were more than a few satirical pieces that I don't think I'd feel comfortable running now. It could very well be that the reason I thought it was okay back then was because of the negative things said about King. Something for me to further contemplate...

Sorry for the derail.

[allegro]

A sense of pride is definitely not the reason I mentioned it. It just struck *me* as weird that you were referring to them as such. Back then, conservative media outlets used the phrase "Rodney King Riot(s)" in their attempts to diminish the uprising because King had a police record. So, how could anyone support people who were supporting this criminal? I suppose it's just a bit of a tender spot.

Yes, but WAY MORE media outlets used the term Rodney King Riot because people were REALLY FUCKING PISSED that the cops who beat the shit out of him - AND WE SAW IT - walked away free. I mean, the whole fucking world waited for that verdict - fuck his criminal record, fuck if he was on crack, a WHOLE BUNCH OF COPS BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF AN UNARMED GUY AND WE SAW THE WHOLE THING - and all those cops walked. And when ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE, "conservative media" called the rioters "animals," etc.

I used to work with defense attorneys. Ultimately, everybody deserves due process, a speedy trial, fair treatment, AND NOT GETTING THE SHIT KICKED OUT OF THEM BEFORE DUE PROCESS OR SPEEDY TRIAL ETC. No fucking cop has the right to take away those rights. That is why we have A FUCKING CONSTITUTION.

[Sarah K]

Freddie Gray's death is ruled a homicide, and six officers will face charges.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

[allegro]

Freddie Gray's death is ruled a homicide, and six officers will face charges.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

Hallelujah!!

[elevenism]

i just saw it on the news. i can't believe it!
Hallelujah!!

oh, and they also found that his arrest was unlawful

[elevenism]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/30/baltimore-police-van-freddie-gray-stop

this makes me so, so fucking sick. i momentarily just hate cops, fucking HATE THEM when i read things like this. i'm sorry but i do.

[Sarah K]

Saying you "hate cops" is the opposite of constructive, though. We shouldn't hate cops. We should be advocating for change. There should be increased training, and increased standards. Blanket hatred for any group doesn't solve anything. That's why we are in the mess we are in right now.


Check out this story:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/05/03/black-parole-officers-police/26843733/

[allegro]

Saying you "hate cops" is the opposite of constructive, though.
Well, he did say "momentarily." When it feels like the cops will always win, no matter what, SOME people feel the way he feels. The majority of white Americans, however, seem to feel that law enforcement has carte blanche to shoot whomever they want, and assumes that all these dead people shot by cops deserve it because the dead people had a criminal record or whatever (I guess these people don't realize that's unconstitutional to think that way). If the cop is doing it, there must be a "reason" and even if there is no "reason" at that very moment, the person's past criminal history warranted a "reason" which of course isn't a reason according to the Constitution but it's reason enough for the white American public. So, if you did something 20 years ago and paid your debt to society, that's still reason enough. Especially if you're a minority.

One of my husband's coworkers posted a small video of a (white!) woman video'ing a U.S. Marshall via her cell phone and the U.S. Marshall came over and snatched away the woman's phone, hurling it to the ground and then kicking it into the street, and the FB poster wondered what people thought about the video. Only a few people said "that guy had no right to do that" but we couldn't BELIEVE how many people said "oh those poor cops [a U.S. Marshall????] have such difficult jobs, risking their lives just to protect us every day, he was probably just under a lot of stress, and I'm sure it was all that woman's fault" etc. They can do no wrong, it's unquestioned and unlimited trust. Here, see this (http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/09/11/poll-numbers-showing-white-people-trust-police-hope-reform/).

My husband was saying the other day, "remember in the 60s and 70s, when cops were "pigs" and nobody liked them or trusted them? What the fuck happened to that?"

[Wolfkiller]

My husband was saying the other day, "remember in the 60s and 70s, when cops were "pigs" and nobody liked them or trusted them? What the fuck happened to that?"

9-11? Ten characters.

[elevenism]

@Sarah K (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3236) , like i said, it's momentary.
Hell, the sheriff of this little town (up until last year) is a very good family friend who is actually named after my granddad. I'm friendly with the new sheriff too.

But when i hear information like we heard in the FG case, it just utterly fucking sickens me, and it's "us and them."

It's a complicated issue. And it occurred to me that it's never, ever going to change because of our nature as humans to abuse power.

edit: also, you have to remember that part of the reason i feel this way is personal experience. as ive said here before, when i lived in dallas, i was beaten by police on more than one occasion. i've had two fake drug paraphernalia charges. ive been denied medical care (i was taken to jail after being in a bad car accident and forced, under the threat of violence, to sign papers saying that i refused to go to the hospital.) i've had them threaten to kill me, telling me that they could do it and get away with it. they told me that they could literally do whatever the fuck they wanted. and to a certain degree, that's true. i hate THAT shit. i hate that mentality.

but you are absolutely right that blanket hatred is wrong.

[Nyx]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#
You can filter the results by state, age, race, cause of death, gender and whether they were armed/unarmed. 470 dead in 2015, so far. Seems a lot.

[Sarah K]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R46-XTqXkzE

[DigitalChaos]

thought that was Reno 911 or some shit at the beginning. wtf was that accidental(?) roll?! That fucking cop acts like he just did a shitload of coke.

[Deepvoid]

thought that was Reno 911 or some shit at the beginning. wtf was that accidental(?) roll?! That fucking cop acts like he just did a shitload of coke.

I thought it was the T1000. I was just waiting for his arms to morph into swords and start chopping kids in half.

[Hazekiah]

My favorite part about Officer Douchefuck's barrel roll is how 1,000,000% unnecessary it was plus the EXTREME probability that he didn't even realize he was on camera yet and simply thought it would be an OMFGAWESOMEBALLZ way to enter frame before he ultimately became the laughingstock of humanity, lol.

[allegro]

My favorite part about Officer Douchefuck's barrel roll is how 1,000,000% unnecessary it was plus the EXTREME probability that he didn't even realize he was on camera yet and simply thought it would be an OMFGAWESOMEBALLZ way to enter frame before he ultimately became the laughingstock of humanity, lol.

This is even DUMBER (http://www.people.com/article/texas-teacher-fired-racist-facebook-post-defending-pool-party-cop)

[tony.parente]

I think this counts as potential police misconduct?
I have progressive and my insurance card is viewable via the app. My question is if I get pulled over and show my insurance card to the officer am I giving him consent to search my phone since its "open"? Just a general random thought.

[Sarah K]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/nyregion/cuomo-to-appoint-special-prosecutor-for-killings-by-police.html?_r=0

Cuomo is going to issue order that appoints the state attorney general as a special prosecutor in cases where police kill people.

Thoughts by people who are more knowledgeable than me? What do you think of this? Will it help get justice for these people? Will it increase accountability? Should it be someone other than the state attorney general to make it more independent?

[DigitalChaos]

Not saying im more knowledgable (im a fucking idiot) but I have an opinion:
Cuomo is already viewed to be incredibly corrupt, so whatever he sets up isn't going to be trusted.
I know nothing about the current AG's history with police. Is there a buddy system already in place between AG and the police? If not, what's to stop one from forming? What's to stop the AG from frequently doing favors for the police? Internal Affairs already suffers from this crap. It helps a bit, but is easily broken.

[Deepvoid]

I'm speechless. Are police officers THAT nervous?

https://youtu.be/Teqn_8tu5D4

[allegro]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/nyregion/cuomo-to-appoint-special-prosecutor-for-killings-by-police.html?_r=0

Cuomo is going to issue order that appoints the state attorney general as a special prosecutor in cases where police kill people.

Thoughts by people who are more knowledgeable than me? What do you think of this? Will it help get justice for these people? Will it increase accountability? Should it be someone other than the state attorney general to make it more independent?
I'm kind of late to the party, here, but it depends on the Attorney General, who is also an elected official. Our AG in Illinois, Lisa Madigan, is VERY good, IMO, and has done a LOT of good in terms of corruption of all kinds. She was particularly effective in bank foreclosure cases (http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/bankforeclosuresettlement.html). A Special Prosecutor is better than the Prosecuting Attorney's office, and the Attorney General's office is even better because the AG represents the State (and the Prosecuting Attorney represents the County or often just the City or a particular District and is often beholden to its coinciding police department; the State and AG is outside of that).

This describes the office of Attorney General in the State of New York:


As head of the Department of Law, the Attorney General is both the “People's Lawyer” and the State's chief legal officer. As the “People's Lawyer,” the Attorney General serves as the guardian of the legal rights of the citizens of New York, its organizations and its natural resources. In his role as the State's chief legal counsel, the Attorney General not only advises the Executive branch of State government, but also defends actions and proceedings on behalf of the State.

The Attorney General serves all New Yorkers in numerous matters affecting their daily lives.The Attorney General's Office is charged with the statutory and common law powers to protect consumers and investors, charitable donors, the public health and environment, civil rights, and the rights of wage-earners and businesses across the State.

The Attorney General's authority also includes the activities and investigations of the State Organized Crime Task Force and Medicaid Fraud Control Unit. While the Attorney General acts independently of the Governor, the Governor or a state agency may request the Attorney General to undertake specific criminal investigations and prosecutions.

The legal functions of the Department of Law are divided primarily into five major divisions: Appeals and Opinions, State Counsel, Criminal Justice, Economic Justice and Social Justice.

Over 650 Assistant Attorneys General and over 1,700 employees, including forensic accountants, legal assistants, scientists, investigators and support staff serve in the Office of the Attorney General in many locations across New York State.

[allegro]

I will NEVER EVER live in the fucking racist SHITHOLE that is Texas. Newly-found video footage shows the cop slamming her head into the ground during the traffic stop while pinning her to the ground (for failing to use her signals), then she tells him her head hurts while he's taking her to the squad car. 3 days later, she's dead in her cell and they say she "hung herself." Yeah, right.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/road-trip-for-suburban-woman-ends-in-jailhouse-death/853139/

[orestes]

Ugh, I came upon this story earlier tonight and I. . .I just can't anymore. How many more "suicides" in police protective custody must happen?

[Baphomette]

I'm speechless. Are police officers THAT nervous? They're all fucking insane. INSANE.

They're trying to suppress this video of a man shot a few weeks ago (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=679_1434781637). The fact that they handcuff the guy despite the back of his head being blown out is just... I don't even know what to say anymore.

[Dra508]

I will NEVER EVER live in the fucking racist SHITHOLE that is Texas. Newly-found video footage shows the cop slamming her head into the ground during the traffic stop while pinning her to the ground (for failing to use her signals), then she tells him her head hurts while he's taking her to the squad car. 3 days later, she's dead in her cell and they say she "hung herself." Yeah, right.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/road-trip-for-suburban-woman-ends-in-jailhouse-death/853139/

[emoji15]
I've actually thought about what if I got pulled over here. I've seen enough cops pulling people over and they drive for a mile behind the person until they completely pull into a parking lot or something away from the road. Nu-uh, you think I've done a moving violation, I'm pulling right over on the side of that road, not off away where no one else can see.

[allegro]

[emoji15]
I've actually thought about what if I got pulled over here. I've seen enough cops pulling people over and they drive for a mile behind the person until they completely pull into a parking lot or something away from the road. Nu-uh, you think I've done a moving violation, I'm pulling right over on the side of that road, not off away where no one else can see.

Unless you are a minority, you don't have any problems. This person was a black woman -- an EDUCATED BLACK WOMAN RETURNING TO TEXAS FROM ILLINOIS TO START A NEW JOB AT HER ALMA MATER -- pulled over by some racist yahoo cop. They now think SEVERAL people video'd this incident on cell phones; the cop is claiming the woman was "combatant" but you can hear her saying "you're hurting me, you just slammed my head into the ground" etc. and she's lying face-down in the grass and he's KNEELING ON HER. Because, you know, she's a negro.

[Deepvoid]

It's a long one but it's worth it and definitely relevant to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nPyf-0UMc

[Dra508]

Unless you are a minority, you don't have any problems. This person was a black woman -- an EDUCATED BLACK WOMAN RETURNING TO TEXAS FROM ILLINOIS TO START A NEW JOB AT HER ALMA MATER -- pulled over by some racist yahoo cop. They now think SEVERAL people video'd this incident on cell phones; the cop is claiming the woman was "combatant" but you can hear her saying "you're hurting me, you just slammed my head into the ground" etc. and she's lying face-down in the grass and he's KNEELING ON HER. Because, you know, she's a negro.

I'm a woman.

When I lived in Massachusetts, I used to have drive through this very very affluent town (and very white) every day. If I saw a cop had pulled over a car, inevitably it was a non-white driver. I was pretty vocal to my friends and family about how obvious this was to me.

Between this woman dying and the swimming pool girl/cop story north of Dallas, am I getting that the qualifications for hiring and the training of law enforcement is meh around here or what?

[allegro]

I'm a woman.
No, this wasn't related to being a woman, this was related to racial incidents in that area.

DWB -- Driving While Black.

But, yeah, it would scare if me if I was pulled over in a really remote rural area (which this wasn't) by an unmarked car. I'd want them to call for backup and I'd stay in the car.

[Dra508]

http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/

[allegro]

http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/
Whoa, wow, that's just really really sad and disturbing.

[Dra508]

Seriously. Now, I know what to do when I get pulled over. I'm a bit skeptical of the out of state plate comment. I drove around Texas with a Massachusetts plate for 8 months. You'd have thought the local coppers would have noticed.

[Khrz]

I've never liked cops, not as individuals (although, you know, when your job is to deal with the worst in people day to day, you end up having views on citizens that aren't particularly savory and as a "civilian" that's kinda aggravating) but as an authority. People in power make me automatically wary, not confrontational, but heh I'll wait and see what you're doing with that.
And that's the cops in my country. Those without guns, who don't kill people, unless they go run and hide in a giant transformer in which way, you know, it's less a suicide by cop than a Darwin Award at this point.
The cops in yours ? Fuck that, I'm not coming to visit. I end up on the one cop who remembers the Freedom Fries and still thinks you should have bombed France at that point and I'm done. No dice.

How the fuck is such thing even possible, I don't understand. I'm not putting that on the american people, I'm putting it on the people, period. How we manage to just go on with our lives while people are being shot left and right because fuck you that's why, it's amazing...

[Dra508]

I've never liked cops, not as individuals (although, you know, when your job is to deal with the worst in people day to day, you end up having views on citizens that aren't particularly savory and as a "civilian" that's kinda aggravating) but as an authority. People in power make me automatically wary, not confrontational, but heh I'll wait and see what you're doing with that.
And that's the cops in my country. Those without guns, who don't kill people, unless they go run and hide in a giant transformer in which way, you know, it's less a suicide by cop than a Darwin Award at this point.
The cops in yours ? Fuck that, I'm not coming to visit. I end up on the one cop who remembers the Freedom Fries and still thinks you should have bombed France at that point and I'm done. No dice.

How the fuck is such thing even possible, I don't understand. I'm not putting that on the american people, I'm putting it on the people, period. How we manage to just go on with our lives while people are being shot left and right because fuck you that's why, it's amazing...Unfortunately you're hearing about all the bad examples. There are plenty of good law enforcement officers out there too.

My grandfather was a cop in NY. A detective in the 1940-50's. Never shot anyone. That's not to say he was the nicest guy. My Dad says he was a pretty grumpy guy. Best job a grade school drop out Irish kid could get back then.

[Khrz]

Unfortunately you're hearing about all the bad examples. There are plenty of good law enforcement officers out there too.

But that's the thing : it's terrifying !
And I understand that an institution like the Police needs to put a cohesive front, but for fuck's sake be cohesive on the other front,​ the "we don't choke citizens to death" one !

[allegro]

I'm a bit skeptical of the out of state plate comment. I drove around Texas with a Massachusetts plate for 8 months. You'd have thought the local coppers would have noticed.

Dude, seriously, again, you're not black. Neither am I. There really is a big difference when we're white. We get away with a lot more shit (in certain areas, at least).

A few months ago, G and I were driving my mom back to her condo at around 8 pm. It was dark, we were on Milwaukee Avenue, which is a big 4-lane highway at the point where were at, near the Chicago Executive Airport in the suburb of Wheeling (which has been known for a lot of Latin gang activity lately).

We were stopped at a stoplight, and there were two Wheeling police guys standing at the corner. We were in the right lane and, suddenly, the cops shone flashlights on the car to the left of us at the light. And we were, like, wtf is going on? The cops started motioning for the car to the left of us to pull over to the small cross street that was in front of us, and one cop went over and stood right in front of the car to the left of us, and motioned for its driver to pull over. We looked over, and noticed that the car's driver and its two passengers were black.

It was obvious that the cops were just standing there on a Friday night, profiling for black people in cars. My MOM was even pissed off, like, WHAT THE FUCK? And we felt helpless to even get involved, like "hey, did you just PULL OVER THAT CAR FULL OF BLACK PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK!?" There was NO WAY they could have pulled info about a license plate or anything, because the cops were just STANDING ON THE CORNER.

It was seriously fucked-up. The car's driver did as the cops told them, probably because they knew this game all too well.


My grandfather was a cop in NY. A detective in the 1940-50's.
Sadly, things are a LOT different, now.

Go look at the video that Deepvoid posted up there (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3407-Ferguson-and-general-police-misconduct?p=263034#post263034). It's long, but worth it.

[Dra508]

Dude, seriously, again, you're not black. Neither am I. There really is a big difference when we're white. We get away with a lot more shit.

Dude, I know!

[Dra508]

Sadly, things are a LOT different, now.
t.

Yeah, the Grand Father called people 'colored', that's what's different. :(

[cynicmuse]

http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/
That is a much better analysis than CNN's facile discussion this morning (CNN is the only thing on at the gym). The white talking head blamed the victim. CNN also skipped the first part of the video where the trooper asked her why she was annoyed and her response was that she had changed lanes because he was coming up so quickly behind her; the escalation started from the beginning of the stop.

[Sarah K]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-nypd-abused-citizens-in-the-name-of-data-and-how-one-cop-exposed-it-all/

This is super interesting re: NYPD whistleblower on quotas and manipulating paperwork.

[Deepvoid]

Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing of Sam Dubose (http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/the-video-is-not-good-cincinnati-braces-for-footage-release-in-campus-cop-killing-of-sam-dubose/)

But Cincinnati’s police chief said he had seen the video, and he said “the video is not good.”

“It’s not a good situation, I think that’s clear, and it will become evident once that video is shown,” said Chief Jeffrey Blackwell, of Cincinnati police. “We’re just trying to do our best to be prepared for whatever might come out of it.”

The prosecutor doesn't want to release the tape unless ordered by the Ohio Supreme Court.
You know it must be really bad when they start preparing you in advance.

**

Here's the video. Shooting takes place at 5:55
Video with sound starts at 2:45.
Shit goes down so fast. I have no clue what happened and we he shot the guy.

https://youtu.be/GRQXmMdIdg0

[Sarah K]

http://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/bodycam-video-released-in-cincinnati-shooting/

The body camera video from Cincinnati was released, and the officer has been indicted on a murder charge.

[Frozen Beach]

Dude didn't need to use his gun at all. He should have got in his car and pursued him. As if he'd be the first officer to ever do that after taking a tumble.

[allegro]

Dude didn't need to use his gun at all. He should have got in his car and pursued him. As if he'd be the first officer to ever do that after taking a tumble.
I guess the car was moving because the guy behind the wheel was shot in the head? It rolled away and came to a stop at a corner by itself.

[elevenism]

allegro , i'm white (obviously.) And i am dallas texas.
And you know about the terrible nightmarish shit that happened to me when i lived there.
It's not always about race. I was beaten multiple times. I've had two FAKE charges put on me.
I've been harassed and arrested for no fucking reason more times than i can count.
The dallas police department is a fucking nightmare. Remember the JFK incident? Not only are they violent and awful, but they are insanely inept.
And a lot of the PD's in the suburbs are worse.

Now, i have long hair and usually kind of look like i'm up to no good. And i NEVER used a car in D town-i rode the bus and train, which took me to some rough areas. That may be why my police experiences in dallas are different than someone who drives a car.

All of that being said, TEXAS IS NOT A RACIST SHITHOLE.
there are racists everywhere.
But texas is fucking wonderful, and it's by the grace of god that i am a fifth generation texan.
ANYWHERE looks like a shithole if you focus on the bad parts.

[Baphomette]

it's by the grace of god that i am a fifth generation texan. No. You're a fifth generation Texan because the previous four generations didn't move out of the state.

[orestes]

I don't know why this story is receiving very little press. (http://www.gq.com/story/lapd-killed-unarmed-homeless-man)

[Baphomette]

I don't know why this story is receiving very little press. (http://www.gq.com/story/lapd-killed-unarmed-homeless-man)Los Angeles is hellbent on eliminating the homeless (http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-homeless-sweeps-20150624-story.html). (The HOMELESS not homelessness.) By any means necessary. :/

Additionally, the homeless aren't seen as "people." Same goes for Latinos (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/24/police-killings-latinos_n_6739448.html). The media glosses right over both.

[elevenism]

Los Angeles is hellbent on eliminating the homeless (http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-homeless-sweeps-20150624-story.html). (The HOMELESS not homelessness.) By any means necessary. :/


They pulled the same shit in D town some time ago. They fucking made it ILLEGAL to sleep ANYWHERE that wasn't indoors.
So in essence, they made it illegal for the homeless to exist.
There was this one church where the pastor was like "Try and move these people. i dare you."
The cops didn't fuck with them. So the homeless posted up in neat little rows in the massive church parking lot. Sometimes it rained and snowed on them. But they couldn't go under a bridge or anything or they would be taken to jail.

I was REALLY glad when that mayor was over with.

As far as Latinos, Gustavo Arellano's been talking about la Reconquista for years. maybe it's time to go for it.

Sigh...fucking heartless, racist right wing fucks.
I hate it that i'm so partisan. I hate to be so divided.
But their shit, shit like you posted, makes my fucking blood boil.

[elevenism]

orestes , it MAY be because the man is homeless.
But there are scores of cases that we aren't hearing about. Furthermore, it's been going on for years. I remember a story in the dallas observer about the problem JUST IN DALLAS that listed 9 or 10, including an incident where a cop's stray bullet killed a little girl, that had all happened that year, and that was, shit, 08?

There is another factor that we need to pay attention to.
We are being manipulated.
The media is picking and choosing cases. Then they are drumming up outrage for weeks, until a verdict is announced. They are doing crazy shit like announcing the verdicts at night.
Furthermore, they have prior knowledge of the outcomes in some cases. I believe it was the eric garner case when the news graphic said "no indictment" before any announcement was made. Other media outlets were tweeting and commenting before any announcement was made.

They are manipulating our actions through our emotions, and it's WORKING.

I don't know why this is happening, but it IS.

SOMEONE wants to foster a spirit of division in this country.

[Sarah K]

http://gothamist.com/2015/08/04/falcone_anti_gay_arrest.php

Staten Island man who was basically the victim of a hate crime sues NYPD. Good for him.

[Sarah K]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/08/08/black-and-unarmed/

[orestes]

This is a harrowing statistic. (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database)

[orestes]

Well, this is fucking stupid. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/08/10/washington-post-reporter-charged-with-trespassing-interfering-with-a-police-officer/)

[Baphomette]

Ferguson activists DeRay Mckesson, Johnetta Elzie among those arrested in St. Louis (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/08/10/ferguson-activists-deray-mckesson-johnetta-elzie-among-those-arrested-in-st-louis/)

[Sarah K]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwlhnk6pDE

Lolllllll... What the fuck?

[Exocet]

Same thing happened to me in Western Ukraine in 2006...this shit is rife there...

I didnt know sections of the U.S police force was corrupt like this...plain nasty...this is not first world behaviour..

[allegro]

But the car was unregistered, which comes with a huge fine and the car had to be impounded, but the cop was being "nice" to these guys by letting them off in exchange for selling tix to a charity event.

[Sarah K]

http://6abc.com/news/philly-cop-to-driver-you-buy-these-or-i-take-your-car/951155/

He's already been removed.

I love their commissioner. "IT'S JUST STUPID. IT'S JUST NOT GOOD. AT ALL."

[allegro]

Lol lol

I get calls from the FOP pressuring me to give them money, using tactics that would make that cop look like Mother Theresa.

The only way I've gotten out of it without fearing that something awful would happen to me is I told them I already gave them money (lied) or that I didn't have any.

[tony.parente]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwlhnk6pDE

Lolllllll... What the fuck?
aaahahah I honestly have no idea how I feel about that.

[DigitalChaos]

Philly, of course. WTF is with the huge amount of problems from there? It seems like they have a disproportionate amount of corrupt shit.

[orestes]

Apparently it's possible to run 85 ft. with a severed spine and pierced heart.

http://m.stlamerican.com/news/local_news/article_17276a36-4abd-11e5-9b05-df0bf77f9387.html?mode=jqm

[Sarah K]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/28/jamycheal-mitchell-virginia-jail-found-dead

This is terrible. :(

[tony.parente]

http://youtu.be/1pBougV1JK4
This is incredible.

[Swykk]

Real Time was on fucking point this week. Loved the conversation Maher and QT had. The Blue Line Wall (or Blue Line Frat, as I refer to it) is one of the biggest problems along with deeply flawed hiring and monitoring practices. It's a good feeling to see two people that I respect and are most likely smarter than I am basically quote me.

[DigitalChaos]

This is incredible.

laaaame

i prefer this one, as it doesn't trivialize the protections people have during a stop/checkpoint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB_l6sLxNj4

[allegro]

Chicago cop who shot black teen 16 times over a year ago is charged with First-Degree Murder, held without bond (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-cop-shooting-video-laquan-mcdonald-charges-20151124-story.html). Dashcam video to be released today per Judge's Order. Video allegedly shows cop shooting McDonald while he was walking away, in the back and then while McDonald was on the ground, and cop's partner tells cop to hold his fire.

Meanwhile, Chicago Police Chief Garry McCarthy moves to fire Detective Dante Servin who killed innocent bystander Rekia Boyd in 2012 (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-mccarthy-moves-to-fire-detective-dante-servin-after-fatal-off-duty-shooting-20151123-story.html). Servin was acquitted after a Judge determined that the Prosecutor should have charged Servin with Murder, not Involuntary Manslaughter.

[Sarah K]

This is going to get fucking insane. They paid out $5,000,000 without a lawsuit even being filed. I just can't even imagine what happened for that to be approved.

Ridiculous that it took this long for him to be charged.

[allegro]

Meanwhile, I don't know how many people outside of this area know about the Fox Lake IL cop who was shot and killed and an immediate manhunt ensued (http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20151123/news/151129715/) because he had radio'd that he was pursuing 3 suspects (2 white guys and 1 black guy), who were later found but determined to be innocent (the cop probably saw them on his way to the site). The manhunt cost taxpayers MILLIONS of dollars and included police from hundreds of miles away, dogs, helicopters, etc. Ends up the officer staged his own suicide because he'd been a pretty bad cop for many many years, including putting a hit out and planting cocaine on a village trustee who was on to his stealing money from a local "Explorer's" program, grabbing women's butts at parties, DUIs while on the job, sexual harassment, etc. The police force KNEW about this but went ahead with a manhunt, anyway, and this guy had a HERO'S funeral.

[Sarah K]

Yeah... That made the national news rounds pretty recently.

Crazy ass shit!

[allegro]

Ridiculous that it took this long for him to be charged.
Yup, the prosector's office has had the dashcam video since November of 2014 and provided a copy to the Feds relating to a violation of civil rights. I just don't see why it took this fucking long to investigate this shit. And then they charge him TODAY, the day that the video is released? The god damned FOP is tying the prosecutor's hands way too much, and there needs to be WAY more cases where officers are charged. Yes, the United States Supreme Court has ruled that officers are allowed to use deadly force, but NOT WHEN THE SUSPECT IS CLEARLY WALKING AWAY, AND NOT WHEN NO OTHER OFFICER ON THE SCENE EVEN PULLED OUT A GUN, AND NOT WHEN THE SUSPECT WAS ON THE GROUND IN A FETAL POSITION. A fucking 4" knife is not a fucking threat, how is taking a YEAR "jeopardizing your case?" The prosecutor claims it's not unusual for a case to take up to "20 months" to investigate and we should not "rush to justice." Oh YEAH? Fuck you, 20 months is too fucking long, you dumb ass. The prosecutor is on TV right now saying that they released the video as a result of civil litigation with the family. WAIT, WHAT? Anita Alvarez is the QUEEN of covering her own fucking ass. I hope she LOSES THIS NEXT FUCKING ELECTION.

[Sarah K]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWvV9HJUB74


Wheeeeeeeew.

Just watched the dash cam footage, too. What in the absolute fuck? Chicago is about to go wild.

[theimage13]

First and foremost, I support the charges here.

But I have to ask: what possible value is there in releasing that video publicly? What good does it do anyone? How does it better us?

And for those who choose to watch it: why would you voluntarily witness a murder? I just don't understand. Can someone provide a different perspective?

[Sarah K]

I used to never watch them, either. So I definitely understand that stance. For me, on a *personal* level, it's now pretty important. To brush it aside and to act like it didn't happen(which is what I was doing, when I was not willing to watch them) is silly. It furthers the narrative that police officers are all good and are making decisions while their lives are in danger... When they aren't. How many times have videos been released where the person who ends up killed is walking away?

The first one that I watched was the Tamir Rice one. I couldn't understand anything about the entire situation. This is shit that I care deeply about, and I think that people can't fully grasp the gravity of the situation that black people in this country are facing right now. It's not real if we don't see it and fully absorb it.

But I also understand the aversion to watching someone be murdered.

[Hazekiah]

^ Exactly, but I'll go ahead and chime in here for a minute, too...with a slightly more aggressive stance.

Why release it? What good does it do? How does it better us?

THESE PIGS NEED TO KNOW THEY CAN GUN BUT NOT HIDE.

The People will SEE what they did and hold them accountable for their actions. They should think about that more often. Same logic with the body-cams. The more transparency and information available the better.

Why watch it?

Empathy. Information. Respect. That kid died for something and it might as well FINALLY be something worthwhile.

[DigitalChaos]

If you contribute to a system via taxes or voting, you owe it to all your fellow citizens to be aware of the bad that is coming out of that system. If some aspect of a system that YOU CONTRIBUTE TO is too much for you to witness, then you need to do something about it besides ignore the ugly side of it.

The machinery of society and government makes it too easy for people to ignore all the ugly aspects that are created as a result. It's like people who eat meat but have no idea what animal slaughter entails.

[theimage13]

Thanks for the input. I guess I have a harder time understanding your perspectives because I've never personally needed to view something with my own eyes in order to grasp the seriousness of it. I also don't need a video to show me what racial profiling looks like, but maybe that's because I've been in countries where I'm literally the only white person I see all day and I get heckled for it. (For the record, I had a healthy understanding of these issues before I ever experienced them first hand.) And I certainly don't see how watching someone's murder is a way of validating it or respecting them. I mean, if my own parents were gunned down, I would find it more respectful for my last memory of them to be of the life they lived, not the bloody fate they suffered. And I'd be fuming mad if suddenly the whole world got to watch them die with the click of a button. It feels sick and perverted to me.

I don't see why the memory of a stranger should be treated any differently. There's no dignity in homicide. Information? I can read that the cop shot someone 16 times. I can read that the cop was charged with murder. What extra value is there in literally watching it happen? Again, maybe I'm just different, but I can get pretty choked up just reading about something - even in boring, monotone editorial text.

But I guess I should pose a hypothetical, as this is something I've wondered about before - do you think executions should be shown live on television? Almost every single person who has ever voted in favor of the government being allowed to take a life has never sat down and watched that person be strapped to a gurney or chair and killed. Do you think America would suddenly be in an uproar over the death penalty if we put it on Youtube?

[allegro]

Thanks for the input. I guess I have a harder time understanding your perspectives because I've never personally needed to view something with my own eyes in order to grasp the seriousness of it. I also don't need a video to show me what racial profiling looks like, but maybe that's because I've been in countries where I'm literally the only white person I see all day and I get heckled for it. (For the record, I had a healthy understanding of these issues before I ever experienced them first hand.) And I certainly don't see how watching someone's murder is a way of validating it or respecting them. I mean, if my own parents were gunned down, I would find it more respectful for my last memory of them to be of the life they lived, not the bloody fate they suffered. And I'd be fuming mad if suddenly the whole world got to watch them die with the click of a button. It feels sick and perverted to me.

I don't see why the memory of a stranger should be treated any differently. There's no dignity in homicide. Information? I can read that the cop shot someone 16 times. I can read that the cop was charged with murder. What extra value is there in literally watching it happen? Again, maybe I'm just different, but I can get pretty choked up just reading about something - even in boring, monotone editorial text.

But I guess I should pose a hypothetical, as this is something I've wondered about before - do you think executions should be shown live on television? Almost every single person who has ever voted in favor of the government being allowed to take a life has never sat down and watched that person be strapped to a gurney or chair and killed. Do you think America would suddenly be in an uproar over the death penalty if we put it on Youtube?
First, I don't think we should only be concerned about this because of race; this could happen to anybody; police overreach their power and control and shoot people of all colors every fucking day; sure, they're more apt to shoot and kill people of color, but white people need to be aware of this not only to hold police accountable but because it can also happen to you.

Second, this isn't just grasping the seriousness but also knowing the facts; this isn't so horrible that it's like viewing an ISIS beheading (something I will not watch); it's a grainy, 10-second B&W clip that's fuzzy with no audio, but it's important to see if it you want to be involved in discourse in this matter because it clearly shows the facts; the cop's initial side (pre-video) was he and his partner were "rushed" by this kid with a knife. The Prosecutor then viewed the video and determined that the dash cam video (from another cop's car, not the accused cop's car) even though from far away, clearly shows that the dead kid never "rushed" anybody; but you can either take the word of either party, or you can see it for yourself. I've been in law for many years, and I prefer to see it for myself. This video shows the facts of a crime. Yes, the kid is clearly on PCP (it was found in his bloodstream), but he did not "rush" the cops; he was running AWAY from the cops. Until that Cowbow Cop emptied his gun into the kid (and then reloaded with the intent to keep firing at the kid now unconscious and near-dead on the ground), the other cops in the truckyard (with tasers) had talked to the kid trying to talk him out of his 3" knife, and none of the other cops on the scene even fired their guns. Btw, the kid wasn't dead on the ground; he was still alive with a pulse and died at the hospital. This video, a year ago, was so powerful that the Chicago City Counsel offered the kid's family $5 million dollars before the family's attorney had even filed suit.

Third, the facts are that a lot of cops in the country are indicted for shooting or murdering citizens but it is RARE for them to be found guilty; this is the first time in 35 years that a Chicago cop has been indicted for Murder; the facts are that a few United States Supreme Court decisions have supported law enforcements' nearly unilateral ability to shoot citizens using deadly force. A recent SCOTUS decision said that the cops don't even have to be aware of local laws (wtf). The laws are on the cops' side. The more that this happens, the more people are becoming "numb" to it. But, then dashcams and body cams arrived. If there were no dashcam in this case, there would be no case. Now, we can see it happen. Perhaps seeing it might cause an uprising where citizens will refuse to allow law enforcement to have the unilateral ability to murder citizens and lie about it, cover up evidence, withhold evidence, etc. Like, look at this case (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/11/the-death-of-jeremy-mardis-and-trustworthy-police/415437/). I mean, seriously, WHAT THE FUCK.

The local television stations have decided NOT to show this video at all, because (a) the kid's family has asked them not to, (b) it might be difficult for the cop to get a fair jury trial, later, if it's all over every news station.

[DigitalChaos]

Thanks for the input. I guess I have a harder time understanding your perspectives because I've never personally needed to view something with my own eyes in order to grasp the seriousness of it. I also don't need a video to show me what racial profiling looks like, but maybe that's because I've been in countries where I'm literally the only white person I see all day and I get heckled for it. (For the record, I had a healthy understanding of these issues before I ever experienced them first hand.) And I certainly don't see how watching someone's murder is a way of validating it or respecting them. I mean, if my own parents were gunned down, I would find it more respectful for my last memory of them to be of the life they lived, not the bloody fate they suffered. And I'd be fuming mad if suddenly the whole world got to watch them die with the click of a button. It feels sick and perverted to me.

I don't see why the memory of a stranger should be treated any differently. There's no dignity in homicide. Information? I can read that the cop shot someone 16 times. I can read that the cop was charged with murder. What extra value is there in literally watching it happen? Again, maybe I'm just different, but I can get pretty choked up just reading about something - even in boring, monotone editorial text.


But I guess I should pose a hypothetical, as this is something I've wondered about before - do you think executions should be shown live on television? Almost every single person who has ever voted in favor of the government being allowed to take a life has never sat down and watched that person be strapped to a gurney or chair and killed. Do you think America would suddenly be in an uproar over the death penalty if we put it on Youtube?


reification. It's a key ingredient for a lot of things.


Color photography played a part in the anti-war response from the public during the Vietnam war. They could read all about it, just as you describe, but seeing color photos of war brought most of the public closer to a reality that they had never seen before. It created an emotional response that is, apparently, very important in how the majority of the public reacts to something... sadly. It makes it harder for the news to fade away behind all the actual real stuff that is directly happening in everyone's life. Most people have very little connection or experience with the negative things that are coming from the systems they are contributing to.

You also have the way people consume media now. Very few read past a headline, but videos are much more likely to be watched.

[allegro]

Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel fires Chicago Police Chief Garry McCarthy (http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-chicago/7/71/1143320/sneed-exclusive-mccarthy-fired)

[aggroculture]

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-shot-dead-by-S-F-cops-IDd-as-26-year-old-6673167.php#photo-9054615

[allegro]

U.S. Department of Justice launching full investigation of Chicago Police Department. (http://abc7chicago.com/news/us-dept-of-justice-to-investigate-cpd-/1112453/)


The USDOJ will investigate whether the CPD "has engaged in a pattern or practice of violations of the Constitution or federal law," [U.S. Attorney General Loretta] Lynch said. "Specifically, we will examine a number of issues related to the Chicago Police Department's use the force, including its use of deadly force, racial, ethnic and other disparities in the use of force, and its accountability mechanisms."

[Sarah K]

Well, that should be a pretty short investigation.

[DigitalChaos]

Crowd sourcing the funding for journalist lawsuits in the name of police transparency (ex: the release of the Laquan McDonald video)
https://freedom.press/bundle/transparency-police-fund
awesome

[Deepvoid]

Mistrial declared in trial of officer Porter in the death of Freddie Gray (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-porter-trial-jury-wednesday-20151216-story.html)

[Deepvoid]

No indictment in the Tamir Rice shooting.
(http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/28/us/tamir-rice-shooting/)

[elevenism]

and did you guys catch this one?

The Chicago police killed two people when responding to a domestic disturbance, one "accidentally." (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-shooting-20151226-story.html)

and it looks to me like they PROBABLY shouldn't have been shooting at anybody...Jesus fucking Christ, what is it gonna take?

[Deepvoid]

and did you guys catch this one?

The Chicago police killed two people when responding to a domestic disturbance, one "accidentally." (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-shooting-20151226-story.html)

and it looks to me like they PROBABLY shouldn't have been shooting at anybody...Jesus fucking Christ, what is it gonna take?

Hear briefly about it over the weekend.
Has the training of cops changed over the past years? It really looks like they are trained to shoot first and deal with the consequences after.
What happened to defusing the situation?

[Swykk]

https://www.rt.com/usa/328992-chicago-cedric-chatman-video/

Another police murder caught on camera. This one is from 2013. A federal judge (Robert Gettleman) ordered the release of this video. The blue wall and their evil shitty lawyers? Well, you already know they tried (three successful times) to keep this out of the public eye.

I am certain it's ALWAYS been this way but with the technology easily available to the public now as well as lazy hiring/monitoring of police, they're getting caught more and more now. Can't sweep these things under the rug quite so easily anymore. Will there be any consequences? I doubt it.

[allegro]

https://www.rt.com/usa/328992-chicago-cedric-chatman-video/

Another police murder caught on camera. This one is from 2013. A federal judge (Robert Gettleman) ordered the release of this video. The blue wall and their evil shitty lawyers? Well, you already know they tried (three successful times) to keep this out of the public eye.

I am certain it's ALWAYS been this way but with the technology easily available to the public now as well as lazy hiring/monitoring of police, they're getting caught more and more now. Can't sweep these things under the rug quite so easily anymore. Will there be any consequences? I doubt it.

And this shit's been happening in Chicago for 40+ years, and they're trying to get the Mayor to step down over it like it's totally his fault, when we've been through, what, 6 police Superintendents in the last 10 years? I've lost count.

Meanwhile, that piece of shit torturing pig cop Burge calls the reparation fund stupid because it rewards "human vermin. (http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/527850/burge-breaks-silence-condemns-5-5-million-reparations-fund)" Which is how these cops consider black citizens.

[elevenism]

This guy was killed after running into the lobby of the Dallas County Jail panicked that someone was trying to kill him (http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/01/12/wife-of-man-who-died-at-dallas-county-jail-demands-answers/)

"restrained" in the article is code for "choked to death with knee while on ground in handcuffs." as seen in this surveillance cam video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K2p8IXh0G8)

I am disgusted by the dallas media nearly ignoring this story. I am also disgusted with the city for keeping this video under wraps until protesters demanded it.
Worse still, even AFTER the video was released, the media hasn't shown any outrage and has continued to insinuate that the deputies had nothing to do with his death. Which reminds me, the police dept kept the man's fucking NECK, probably because it shows evidence of his cause of death.

Although i no longer live in D town, i will probably always consider myself a dallasite, and sadly, this is business as usual.
Living in dallas, i witnessed a LOT of police brutality, both on the streets and from SD's in jail. I was even personally on the receiving end of it on multiple occasions.

[allegro]

and did you guys catch this one?

The Chicago police killed two people when responding to a domestic disturbance, one "accidentally." (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-shooting-20151226-story.html)

and it looks to me like they PROBABLY shouldn't have been shooting at anybody...Jesus fucking Christ, what is it gonna take?


Hear briefly about it over the weekend.
Has the training of cops changed over the past years? It really looks like they are trained to shoot first and deal with the consequences after.
What happened to defusing the situation?
Exactly. They never defuse, they aren't trained to defuse; they just reflexively shoot and always know that "my life was in danger" is their blanket excuse. The kid they shot was most likely having a mental breakdown and cops (obviously) aren't trained to handle that; they only "shoot first, ask questions later."

The adoptive father of the kid (the kid was an honor college engineering student and "whiz kid") called the police FOR HELP, not for the police to KILL the kid.

Oddly enough, 911 dispatchers received a call 30 seconds before the dad's call that they believe was FROM THE KID, saying he felt his life was in danger, and he identified himself only as "Q." (I immediately thought Star Trek.)

Lesson to that community is, obviously: When and if you need help, don't fucking call 911 or the police.

[elevenism]

Lesson to that community is, obviously: When and if you need help, don't fucking call 911 or the police.

Right. And it's so awful!
Don't call the cops if someone is beating you, because THEY just might fucking KILL you.

[tony.parente]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCe9NJX3SqU

Holy fucking shit. Police officer on the side of the road spraying bikers with mace as they drive by.

[DigitalChaos]

Thats really stupid and dangerous... BUT, I wouldn't be surprised if there was more that happened before the video. Probably some altercation between at least one of the bikers and the cop. The video makes it look like some dipshit kid just throwing shit over a bridge and seeing what cars he can hit. Which he very well may have been doing....

[tony.parente]

Thats really stupid and dangerous... BUT, I wouldn't be surprised if there was more that happened before the video. Probably some altercation between at least one of the bikers and the cop. The video makes it look like some dipshit kid just throwing shit over a bridge and seeing what cars he can hit. Which he very well may have been doing....
I mean, even if bikers were shooting at him as they were driving by you don't mace bikes going 45-50mph on the highway, people could be killed.

[tony.parente]

White police officer assaulting white people doing white things on the road, guess ETS has no interest.

[DigitalChaos]

Well that didn't last long. Feds asset forfeiture program is getting resumed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/28/the-feds-have-resumed-a-controversial-program-that-lets-cops-take-stuff-and-keep-it/?postshare=5131459204999929&tid=ss_tw

[Swykk]

White police officer assaulting white people doing white things on the road, guess ETS has no interest.

I'm not a fan of either (cops and bikers), which I think has been well established.

[allegro]

White police officer assaulting white people doing white things on the road, guess ETS has no interest.

"Innocent Bikers" = an oxymoron in Texas (http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/biker-gang-shootout-in-waco/)

[Mantra]

Tony, I personalyl don't think the lack of conversation around that video is indicative of anything other than the fact that there isn't much backstory or explanation. I didn't feel much of a reaction beyond the initial "wow, that looks pretty fucked up" because I didn't understand what else was going on.

I'm sure that the cop in the video was being a monstrous fucking asshole, but beyond that, I don't know what else to say about it. Even if there were a "justified reason" for him to be trying to pepper spray the bikers, it's idiotic to be spraying people while they're driving down the fucking freeway. But still, there's not much else to the story. The lack of reaction on the board necessarily an indication of racial bias, but simply the reality of not having much else to think about beyond the video itself.

[tony.parente]

@Swykk (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=285) will be proud of me for this.
So a buddy of mine alerts me to this police officers comment she made about how black people should "go back to Africa" on Facebook. She is wearing her police uniform in her profile picture, additionally she lists what police department she works at in her about me section of her profile. I message said police department asking if she is one of their officers with the screenshot included.

Neither by buddy nor I ever messaged her or made any comments on any of her status' alerting her of the fact that there was any issue we had of that post.


About 20 minutes after the police department's Facebook page showed the message as read her Facebook page was taken down.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

https://i.imgur.com/g7c2mjV.jpg

[Hazekiah]

It's extra funny because there's literally a thin blue line at the top of the screencap.

XD

[Sarah K]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/us/alton-sterling-baton-rouge-shooting.html

Sigh.

[elevenism]

Warning, this video is very graphic. It's longer than what the news is showing, with some stations stopping at the gunshot, but i think it needs to be seen.

I have to say that this is the worst fucking police shooting i've seen so far, being even worse than the one that inspired Fruitvale Station.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckuUk9R5ES0

[Frozen Beach]

And another shooting. Warning, Graphic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WkTURRuDZ0

[Sarah K]

And, he has died. This is some of the most surreal shit I have ever seen.

What in the fuck?

The restraint that she demonstrates is absolutely remarkable.

[tony.parente]

What the FUCK is going on in the last 24 hours?!?!?

[Frozen Beach]

The restraint that she demonstrates is absolutely remarkable.
She was probably in shock.

[tony.parente]

Tell us what happened officer Brady.
"Well I told him to show me his license."
Ok, then what
"Then I shot him."
Why did you shoot him?
"Because he reached for something"

[implanted_microchip]

The Castile family is on CNN right now. This is just horrific. Two days in a row now we've seen black men shot for carrying permitted firearms and doing nothing wrong. Isn't the point of owning a gun supposed to be that it somehow makes you safer? Everything about this is just abysmal.

[baudolino]

The Castile family is on CNN right now. This is just horrific. Two days in a row now we've seen black men shot for carrying permitted firearms and doing nothing wrong. Isn't the point of owning a gun supposed to be that it somehow makes you safer? Everything about this is just abysmal.

there is no rational logic in carrying a gun for increased safety. And never has been. Guns are for war/killing, even in relation to the completely outdated 2nd amendment. though i figure the US population will never get their head/asses around that. ideology prevails.


but hey-don't despair. Some day in the not too far future (if you keep killing yourself at this rate) the propability to find someone to shoot will decrease drastically on your huge continent.

[implanted_microchip]

there is no rational logic in carrying a gun for increased safety. And never has been. Guns are for war/killing, even in relation to the completely outdated 2nd amendment. though i figure the US population will never get their head/asses around that. ideology prevails.


but hey-don't despair. Some day in the not too far future (if you keep killing yourself at this rate) the propability to find someone to shoot will decrease drastically on your huge continent.

For the record I'm a major gun control advocate and don't believe and never have believed that having guns around makes me safer. I grew up in a household with an abusive father who owned several firearms and it was pure luck that he never used them, though he left behind numerous journala detailing his intentions to. They created a strong climate of fear and uncertainty. I'm well-aware of the statistics that gun-related accidents and violence spike in homes with them and you're more likely to harm yourself than defend from somebody.

I just said what I said because that debate's raging so incessantly here lately and these shootings just prove that douchebags talking about "privilege" who are huge gun advocates are experiencing a racial one they pretend doesn't exist. Two black men having legal firearms became justification for them to be executed.

[Ryan]

debate's raging so incessantly here lately.

That's not the only thing that's raging incessantly baby.

[allegro]

And, he has died. This is some of the most surreal shit I have ever seen.

What in the fuck?

The restraint that she demonstrates is absolutely remarkable.

The child's voice in the police car ... ugh ... that made me cry ...

Legal license to carry a gun, but it's a trick: it's a legal license for the police to kill you. And then they handcuffed her.

[Sarah K]

The most disturbing part for me is how the cop continues to aim his weapon at a man who is gasping for his last few breaths. Not trying to help him, just standing there yelling.

Fuck, man.

[thelastdisciple]

Fucking disgusting.

Let this be an example of what having everyone armed with a gun would cause. The most convenient excuse in the world for a cop to kill you and they don't even need it as it is. "i thought he was reaching for something..."

Pathetic.

[allegro]

"i thought he was reaching for something..."
Yeah, as Tony said, he was reaching for the driver's license that the cop asked to see. So it's a trick. He informed the cop in advance that he had a concealed carry license and a firearm, which you are supposed to do, then the cop asked to see the guy's license, so the guy was doomed.

The cop was obviously trained as if the streets are Iraq and everybody out there is the enemy out to kill him; THAT is what needs to change with pretty much all police training across the country. He is SUPPOSED to be there to "serve and protect." THAT WAS A FUCKING TRAFFIC STOP, not some enemy weapon search in IRAQ. Except these instances are harkening back to lynchings in the Jim Crow era. The comments online, "Well, he HAD a gun." Nope, black people aren't allowed to have guns, not even LEGAL guns. Gotta arm the white people, and disarm the black folk.

I long for the days of the Black Panthers (http://www.npr.org/2015/09/23/442801731/director-chronicles-the-black-panthers-rise-new-tactics-were-needed)

https://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/black-panthers.jpg?w=700

[Mantra]

Whether it's openly acknowledged or not, racism is one of the driving forces behind the modern guns rights movement in America. "We need guns to protect our families from thugs." Sometimes it's alluded to in a sort of coded language, other times it's more or less right out in the open. But either way, that's the narrative. Depending on the location and the topic at hand, they can apply this outlook toward all those Latino rapists invading from south of the border, or they can direct it toward those scary black men. Either way, this country is full of dangerous thugs, which is why all the law-abiding white folks need to self-segregate and arm themselves. There are plenty of other motivations behind our gun scene, of course, but this is definitely one of the big ones.

Which is why we're not likely to see very many guns rights advocates coming out in defense of the two black men who were killed this week, because the injustice of their deaths doesn't fit with the narrative behind the American gun scene. Guns are primarily meant for white people to protect themselves from the bad guys, and these two men were the bad guys. Rush Limbaugh isn't gonna go on any red-faced rants in defense of their right to bear arms, because the last thing he wants to advocate is a bunch of armed black dudes running around. So black people don't truly have the right to bear arms. If anything, the fact that these two guys were carrying guns just becomes another way to justify the cops' behavior: "The cops weren't racist...the guy had a gun!" For white people, conceal and carry permits are a sacred right, but for black people, it's a death sentence.

And I'm aware that there are some within the gun community who adopt an anti-racist view of gun rights (I believe Digital Chaos falls into this category, as I seem to remember him referencing the Mulford Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act) and it's racist motivations). This, however, is not a dominant force in the pro-gun movement. The whole gun rights scene, as an organized movement and a lobbying force, is largely the domain of boilerplate Republican rightwingers, which is why the American gun scene has become so entangled with the warped, racist mindset the right.

[cashpiles (closed)]

After hearing the disturbing news of the most recent killings of black people by police I decided to read some statistics. It turns out about 1000 people in the USA were killed by police last year. Of those 1000, 500 were white and 300 were black.

So you think, well more white people are being killed. It seems that whites are more of a target. But then you take into account the percentage of the population that whites and blacks take up and you find that black people are 21 times more likely to be killed by police.

But then, read this from the Department of Justice:

Using figures for the 2013 racial mix of the population–62.2 percent white, 17.1 percent Hispanic, 13.2 percent black–we can calculate the average likelihood of a person of each race attacking the other. A black is 27 times more likely to attack a white and 8 times more likely to attack a Hispanic than the other way around. A Hispanic is eight times more likely to attack a white than vice versa.
We can also calculate how often criminals of each group choose victims of other races. As indicated below, when whites commit violence they choose fellow whites as victims 82.4 percent of the time, and almost never attack blacks. Blacks attack whites almost as often as they attack blacks, and Hispanics attack whites more often than they attack any other group, including their own.


http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/WhiteOffenders.jpg (http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/WhiteOffenders.jpg)
http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/BlackOffenders.jpg (http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/BlackOffenders.jpg)
http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/HispanicOffenders.jpg (http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/HispanicOffenders.jpg)


There is much media agonizing over black-on-black violence, but these figures show that only 40.1 percent of the victims of black violence are black, while people of other races account for nearly 60 percent of the victims of black violence.





We also have to figure out the percentage of white people out of all whites that commit crimes and then the percentage of black people out of all blacks that commit crime.....

[allegro]

There is no historic centralized data regarding police shootings. Congress only passed an Act in 2014 requiring the collection of police shooting data.

See this link: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/12/28/3735190/killed-by-police-2015/

And this: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/12/3602641/congress-just-passed-a-bill-that-could-change-the-game-on-what-we-know-about-police-shootings/

The problem is that a LOT of the minorities shot and/or killed by police were not committing any "crime." This guy today in Minnesota was pulled over for a broken tail light, a minor traffic offense. Their "crime" is drummed up later. The guy in Baton Rouge was selling CDs, no "crime." Somebody called and complained that he had threatened somebody with a gun, but the store manager who knew him said that was bullshit and it was a setup. Instead of the cops questioning him, they tackled him, pinned him to the ground, screamed at him, felt a gun in his pocket, screamed GUN and then killed him, then pulled the gun out of the dead guy's pocket. "Crime" invented after he was dead = no crime. And most crimes were not crimes that warranted an immediate death sentence without due process.

Black-on-black violence etc. is drift in this thread. This thread is about police violence.

[Sarah K]

Two police officers have been shot at protests in Dallas.

Now that is the only narrative that will be heard.

Edit - now it is being reported that ten were shot - three fatally.

Fuck.

Edit again... https://streamable.com/ba25 It shows nothing, but you can hear all of the fucking gunfire. This is fucking insane.

[allegro]

Edit - now it is being reported that ten were shot - three fatally.

Now it's 11 cops shot, 4 dead.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/protests-spawn-cities-across-u-s-over-police-shootings-black-n605686

edit: CNN coverage, a guy took video of one of the officers being killed, "execution style" while the officer was already down, killer stood over the cop lying on the ground and shot the cop several times with what he thinks was an AR-15; assailant wearing military style garb; he says shooter carrying lots of high-capacity magazines, so many that they were falling out of his pockets, and he was apparently wearing body armor (assailant was shot in the back by officer but it didn't seem to faze him).

[Mantra]

jesus christ i can't believe this shit

the last three days have been so violent and horrific and depressing, i'm honestly terrified to see what's coming next

this country is FUCKED

[allegro]

This reminds me of when I was a little girl during the Detroit riots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot#Damage) and the national tension with riots everywhere and curfews and stuff.

This is a terrorist act in Dallas, though.

[Mantra]

^Yeah, I keep trying to tell myself "worse shit has happened before, this country's entire history is filled with violence." But that thought process hasn't really helped to calm me down, because I just keep watching the news and they keep showing the footage over and over with all the shooting and the screaming and everything, and it just feels like this whole country is ready to break out into a civil war or something. I know I need to step away from the tv and stop watching this shit, but I can't peel myself away, so I just keep watching and feeling like the country's falling apart. Ugh.

It's shit like this that always makes me think "don't people want to FIX our fucked up country? Do they LIKE this shit? Is this honestly the kind of society that people want to live in?"

[allegro]

This press conference with Diamond Reynolds, the girlfriend who live-streamed Philando Castile's killing, made me cry. So heartbreaking.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/us/lavish-diamond-reynolds-trnd/

It just feels like we have gone so far backward. I read Ta-Nehisi Coates' "Between the World and Me" and teared up through tons of it.

Update: One Dallas suspect is in a parking garage and is telling the police he has planted bombs.

[Ryan]

I watched both videos and they're extremely genuinely disturbing. Especially what at Sarah K said about the cop just standing there pointing the gun when the guy is laying there dying. It almost borders on some sort of Trey Parker-esque satire. Not something I'd ever expect to actually see happen IRL. But I guess nothing surprises us anymore. Truly fucked in all senses.

[tony.parente]

Looks like it's Opposite Day here in Ballwin less than a mile from my house. Police officer was shot in the neck during a traffic stop and there was a short manhunt. I was at the park catching pokemon and 30 police cars flew by. No word on if the officer is dead but they caught the suspect, a tall thin African American according to reports.

[Mantra]

More info about the shooter

http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/micah-xavier-x-johnson-dallas-police-shooting-sniper-gunman-shooter-suspect-name-identified-photos-facebook-video/

I was wondering if he'd turn out to be someone with a military background, just cause in the videos last night it kinda looked like a person who was trained, just from the way he was moving and shooting.

[allegro]

More info about the shooter

http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/micah-xavier-x-johnson-dallas-police-shooting-sniper-gunman-shooter-suspect-name-identified-photos-facebook-video/
Wow. The pic of the police with a protestor, smiling, is heartbreaking. The protest was organized with the help of the DPD, none of the cops were wearing riot gear, many cops I saw on video were wearing shorts and it didn't look like they were wearing any protective vests, this was literally like shooting fish in a barrel, the DPD was totally caught off-guard. This shooter didn't do his Black Power cause any favors, that's for sure. Now, pretty much every protest is going to be viewed with the potentiality of something like this, most likely.

[thevoid99]

Why am I getting the feeling that is like.... 1968 or something where everything is going to shit? We got a country here that is just completely divided with all sorts of shooting and a Presidential election becoming a circus. Great Britain tells the EU to fuck off and everyone is panicking. Chaos in the middle east. Floods in China and all sorts of shit happening in Bangladesh. What the fuck is going on?

[allegro]

Why am I getting the feeling that is like.... 1968 or something where everything is going to shit? We got a country here that is just completely divided with all sorts of shooting and a Presidential election becoming a circus. Great Britain tells the EU to fuck off and everyone is panicking. Chaos in the middle east. Floods in China and all sorts of shit happening in Bangladesh. What the fuck is going on?

It really is a time of turmoil and a time of great change; but things are cyclical like that, sometimes great turmoil is necessary to facilitate great change.

Meanwhile, I think this is really awesome (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/07/its-not-us-vs-them/490493/?utm_source=atlfb).

[Mantra]

So apparently on one of our local news channels today, they played an audio recording of the cop who shot Philando Castile, recorded from police scanners moments before he pulled the car over, and he says "I’m going to stop a car...I’m going to check IDs. I have reason to pull it over. The two occupants just look like people who have been involved in a robbery. The driver looked more like one of our suspects, just cause of the wide-set nose." The robbery in question, by the way, was not something that was in progress or had just happened, but was from days ago.

"cause of the wide set nose"

for fucks sake


EDIT: Here's a video clip from the news show: http://gawker.com/cop-on-apparent-police-scanner-audio-said-philando-cast-1783339741

[Lew]

It really is a time of turmoil and a time of great change; but things are cyclical like that, sometimes great turmoil is necessary to facilitate great change.

Meanwhile, I think this is really awesome (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/07/its-not-us-vs-them/490493/?utm_source=atlfb).

allegro bless you for this.

[ziltoid]

Larry Wilmore does another exceptional job at analyzing the outrage and breaks down why so many people are upset at what has happened and continues to happen.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/7x3ljb/the-nightly-show-with-larry-wilmore-alton-sterling-s-death---black-lives-matter


Whether it's openly acknowledged or not, racism is one of the driving forces behind the modern guns rights movement in America...

Which is why we're not likely to see very many guns rights advocates coming out in defense of the two black men who were killed this week, because the injustice of their deaths doesn't fit with the narrative behind the American gun scene.

Yes, this so much.

http://fusion.net/story/322630/second-amendment-black-people-philando-castile/


The National Rifle Association is often eager to jump into heated debates about guns. In case after case and lawsuit after lawsuit, they have rushed to get involved—usually when people are defending their concealed carry (http://www.nj.com/sussex-county/index.ssf/2014/02/nra_challenging_njs_2nd_amendment_stance_in_lawsui t_group_says.html) and open carry gun rights (http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/nra-seeks-to-weigh-in-on-open-carry-case-before-florida-supreme-court/2272474).

Those people are very often white.

Yet the NRA has been silent in the wake of Wednesday’s police killing of Philando Castile (http://fusion.net/story/322473/who-is-philando-castile/), a black man who was also a licensed concealed carrier of a gun, even though his legal right to a weapon played a key role in his death.







A video from Killer Mike explaining how he feels about the recent murders of black men.


https://www.facebook.com/hot1079atl/videos/10154270775431308/

[thevoid99]

And right now, there's a protest in Atlanta. No one killed so far....

[Sarah K]

There are protest across the entire country.

[Ryan]

It really is a time of turmoil and a time of great change; but things are cyclical like that, sometimes great turmoil is necessary to facilitate great change.

That, or, Jesus is coming. (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-man-says-he-climbed-the-sydney-harbour-bridge-for-god-20160707-gq18uc.html)

[elevenism]

I finally got to see my old stomping grounds, the west end of downtown dallas, on the national news...but it was for something awful.
I saw my mcdonalds, my bus stop, all that shit.

[DigitalChaos]

Which is why we're not likely to see very many guns rights advocates coming out in defense of the two black men who were killed this week, because the injustice of their deaths doesn't fit with the narrative behind the American gun scene.
you must not know many gun rights advocates then

Police are Now Shooting Licensed Gun Owners – Where is the GOP? (https://bearingdrift.com/2016/07/07/now-police-shooting-licensed-gun-owners-gop/)


Black Lives Matter and So Do Their Gun Rights: Where’s the NRA on Philando Castile? (https://reason.com/blog/2016/07/07/black-lives-matter-and-so-do-their-gun-r)


Hell, even the guy in Dallas who was open carrying the AR-15 (who was wrongly labeled as the shooter) was someone making this point. A LOT of 2A advocates are pissed about a CCW being shot down for legally carrying and notifying.

[allegro]

Black Lives Matter and So Do Their Gun Rights: Where’s the NRA on Philando Castile? (https://reason.com/blog/2016/07/07/black-lives-matter-and-so-do-their-gun-r)


They were stopped because their car had a broken tail light. That's it.

Actually, they didn't even have a broken tail light; the cop made that up, and now Mantra's new news indicates that the cop pulled them over thinking they were robbery suspects due to Castile's "wide nose" (evidently a rarity to the cop, duh).

[richardp]

Can someone clear something up for me?

I keep seeing the news stating that the one gunman was the ONLY gunman. But as I was watching it unfold live on TV, everyone (including Dallas PD) kept saying that there were officially two snipers up top and at least two people on the ground at different points and it was a heavily calculated group effort. But now it's just the one guy all of a sudden? Are they covering something up? Is the media scapegoating this dude because the other three got away? Or did I miss a piece of news that decided that the one shooter was able to be like 3 different places at once?

I'm genuinely confused by this.

[DigitalChaos]

Seems the NRA actually already made a statement that is totally reasonable and fits their pattern of prior statements (they always wait and are careful to get all facts). I get that a lot of their members want to preemptively come out with support for someone who seems to have been entirely legal with their CCW.



As the nation's largest and oldest civil rights organization, the NRA proudly supports the right of law-abiding Americans to carry firearms for defense of themselves and others regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation.

The reports from Minnesota are troubling and must be thoroughly investigated. In the meantime, it is important for the NRA not to comment while the investigation is ongoing.

Rest assured, the NRA will have more to say once all the facts are known.

[allegro]

Can someone clear something up for me?

I keep seeing the news stating that the one gunman was the ONLY gunman. But as I was watching it unfold live on TV, everyone (including Dallas PD) kept saying that there were officially two snipers up top and at least two people on the ground at different points and it was a heavily calculated group effort. But now it's just the one guy all of a sudden? Are they covering something up? Is the media scapegoating this dude because the other three got away? Or did I miss a piece of news that decided that the one shooter was able to be like 3 different places at once?

I'm genuinely confused by this.

I was watching it live, too, and I think at the time they couldn't believe that one guy could do that much. But they talked to the guy, he insisted he was acting alone, he was heavily armed with weapons and magazines that would have made it possible for one shooter with his military training and two Tours to do all that damage.

edit: I guess there are three other suspects in police custody but no further information has been released about them pending investigation as to whether or not they were actually involved.

[botley]

I thought this was an excellent read (http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer).

[Mantra]

you must not know many gun rights advocates then

Police are Now Shooting Licensed Gun Owners – Where is the GOP? (https://bearingdrift.com/2016/07/07/now-police-shooting-licensed-gun-owners-gop/)


Black Lives Matter and So Do Their Gun Rights: Where’s the NRA on Philando Castile? (https://reason.com/blog/2016/07/07/black-lives-matter-and-so-do-their-gun-r)


Hell, even the guy in Dallas who was open carrying the AR-15 (who was wrongly labeled as the shooter) was someone making this point. A LOT of 2A advocates are pissed about a CCW being shot down for legally carrying and notifying.

Right, of course, which is why I already mentioned that there are those within the gun community who will speak out in defense of these guys, particularly among certain libertarian types. But I would argue that these voices are the exceptions, not the norm. I did think it was interesting to read the NRA statement yesterday. It struck me as fairly hesitant in some ways, but I suppose it's something at least.

[cashpiles (closed)]

I thought this was an excellent read (http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer).

I'm starting to see the true reality of what it's like in the USA....

[allegro]

I thought this was an excellent read (http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer).

Wow, yes, VERY good article, a MUST READ.

I think it is similar to this, also very good: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/black-police-chief-on-the-dallas-attacks/490496/?utm_source=atlfb

Former police chief Grady:

I sometimes get really disillusioned when people use the word ‘perception.’ If in fact something exists, if it’s real, and someone believes it to be real because they see all the indicators that it is in fact real then that’s not a perception, it’s reality … It hurts my heart to know that my son could walk out the door and not come back because he’s been shot by a police officer and the police officer shot him to death because he was scared. There are cops that will tell you I’m not scared of blacks, but I told you about the symbolic assailant. All of our lives it’s drummed into us subliminally that you need to fear people of color. It’s not an illusion, it’s real … If you recognize that this is built in--because that’s the nature of institutional racism--and that we react unconsciously to things that we have heard all of our lives.

[botley]

I'm starting to see the true reality of what it's like in the USA....
Do you think this is isolated in the USA? Because it's not. We have a problem with institutional racism in Canada, too (http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/canadas-prisons-are-the-new-residential-schools/).

[Hazekiah]

I thought this was an excellent read (http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer).

It's not just a race war, it's a CLASS war.

I've been there MANY times myself and I was just lucky I happened to be white.

[allegro]

Do you think this is isolated in the USA? Because it's not. We have a problem with institutional racism in Canada, too (http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/canadas-prisons-are-the-new-residential-schools/).

Wow. That's really really sad.

[Frozen Beach]

last night I had insomnia, so I ended up watching several streams of the protest in Minnesota. On one of the streams, the broadcaster picks up something on the ground. It turns out to be a pamphlet for a socialist party. I almost choked on my drink when that happened.
http://i.imgur.com/WSniYa4.jpg
here's a link to the actual pamphlet in PDF form online.
http://revcom.us/i/439/proclamation-flier-en.pdf

[allegro]

Yeah, well, a lot of minorities have always turned to Socialism (as did the Black Panthers (http://www.socialistalternative.org/life-legacy-malcolm-x/black-panther-party/)) because Capitalism has traditionally used minorities to bolster the people at the top. This is not a big surprise.

"We believe our fight is a class struggle, not a race struggle" - Bobby Seale, co-founder Black Panther Party

[allegro]

Here is a really interesting article about Dallas (http://theatln.tc/29w05uh) (that elevenism might like).

[cynicmuse]

Three reporters (http://theadvocate.com/news/police/16361711-123/baton-rouge-police-arrest-journalist-at-alton-sterling-protest-outside-police-station) were arrested Saturday night along with the protestors in Baton Rouge.

[Frozen Beach]

Holy Shit
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fatal-police-shooting-black-lives-000000007.html?nhp=1

[DigitalChaos]

Holy Shit
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fatal-police-shooting-black-lives-000000007.html?nhp=1
Can animated gifs go on tombstones yet? Cause that guy needs this:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/199/646/catbusiness.gif

[elevenism]

Here is a really interesting article about Dallas (http://theatln.tc/29w05uh) (that @elevenism (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) might like).
a lot of it is bullshit though.
For one thing, dallas goddamn sure isn't safe. it's safER. But it was the UNsafest city in the country for a while, until the police dpt claimed that they didn't know that they could report like crime SPREES as single incidents. That was the SUPPOSED reason. Even now, in 2014, it was number 10 in the country as far as murders go. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/03/america-s-2014-murder-capital.html)Here's a recent article that places it at number 2 on a list of surprisingly unsafe cities. (https://www.safety.com/blog/the-5-most-surprisingly-dangerous-big-cities-in-america/) Don't trust these dallas city hall fuckers with their fuzzy statistics.
And jesus, it is TOO segregated. Like, TERRIBLY segregated.
Sigh.
This false image they are trying to perpetrate kinda makes me GLAD i left.
Here, see the writings of this guy Jim Schutze (http://www.dallasobserver.com/authors/jim-schutze-6371486) , my favorite hippy commie pinko leftist sixty something year old dallas writer.
also see this.
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a609/tylerlankford11/2010%20race%20map_zpscieffa7v.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/tylerlankford11/media/2010%20race%20map_zpscieffa7v.jpg.html)
You know that big pretty white bridge?
That's the tale of 2 cities in dallas. Once you cross that bridge going south, everyone is black.
As for both of these issues, well, there is a lot of spin going on.

[Exocet]

Did anyone else get really pissed off when BLM hijacked the Toronto Gay Pride parade. They started fighting Gay people and demanding their cause was more worthy. Anyone who disgreed was shut down.
can you not see the problem here...
49 people were murdered in an Orlando gay bar a few weeks ago.

[botley]

Did anyone else get really pissed off when BLM hijacked the Toronto Gay Pride parade. They started fighting Gay people and demanding their cause was more worthy. Anyone who disgreed was shut down.
Fighting? Peacefully protesting.

[Exocet]

Fighting? Peacefully protesting.

Oh my god such denialistic bullshit...peacefully protesting, they brutally hijacked the parade, and demanded no Gay police officers be involved.

[botley]

Get your facts straight and stop listening to racist media.

[Exocet]

Get your facts straight and stop listening to racist media.

As a gay man fuck you....your so narrow minded. Simply Questioning BLM tactics means im racist...fuck you

[ziltoid]

Oh my god such denialistic bullshit...peacefully protesting, they brutally hijacked the parade, and demanded no Gay police officers be involved.
Care to share a source to back up this claim?
Otherwise, how are we to know that you are not making it up?


As a gay man fuck you....your so narrow minded. Simply Questioning BLM tactics means im racist...fuck you
What in the actual fuck is wrong with you?
Jesus Christ, if anyone is narrow minded it is you.
Just because he has a differing opinion and calls to question your statement, a statement with no factual evidence supported by you, makes him closed minded?
Never mind the fact that his sexual orientation has no bearing on his opinion.

[orestes]

Did anyone else get really pissed off when BLM hijacked the Toronto Gay Pride parade. They started fighting Gay people and demanding their cause was more worthy. Anyone who disgreed was shut down.
can you not see the problem here...
49 people were murdered in an Orlando gay bar a few weeks ago.

You do know that Opal Tometi, one of the founders of BLM, is gay, right?

Which group has a higher statistic of being harassed and abused by police? Gay white men or queer POC?

[cashpiles (closed)]

You do know that Opal Tometi, one of the founders of BLM, is gay, right? Which has a higher statistic of being harassed and abused by police? Gay white men or queer POC?

The Gay Pride Parade is the Gay Pride Parade. BLM has no business hijacking a TORONTO parade anyways. WRONG country.

[Exocet]

You do know that Opal Tometi, one of the founders of BLM, is gay, right? Which has a higher statistic of being harassed and abused by police? Gay white men or queer POC?

Im pissed off that they hijacked the Gay parade..acting as if we can just be sidelined...and silenced....there are many countries where the death penalty is still in place for us gays.

[orestes]

Jesus christ, the irony.

[cashpiles (closed)]

Im pissed off that they hijacked the Gay parade..acting as if we can just be sidelined...and silenced....there are many countries where the death penalty is still in place for us gays.

BLM should start their own parade instead of hijacking other groups' parades.

[orestes]

The Gay Pride Parade is the Gay Pride Parade. BLM has no business hijacking a TORONTO parade anyways. WRONG country.

Black Lives Matter is an international movement, not just in the U.S.

[Exocet]

Im really not denying police brutality in the United States against African Americans.
That video of Philadro is horrific and upset me and disturbed me deeply.

Im just questioning some of BLM tactics.

[orestes]

Y'all need a history lesson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QiigzZCEtQ

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/black-lives-matter-toronto-pride-kinsman-1.3665829

[botley]

As a gay man fuck you....your so narrow minded. Simply Questioning BLM tactics means im racist...fuck you
You are spouting propaganda. I support Pride, I have given my time freely to help with events around the Village to welcome people visiting our city for the celebration. I went to City Hall and protested that shitheel bigot mayor we once had for snubbing the Pride flag-raising. I am very protective of all my Queer friends and family. The parade is a focal point of media attention and they invited BLM to march as guests of honour, what were they expecting?

@cashpiles (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=750) Once again, if you pretend this is not a Canadian issue, you are completely wrong, and guess what—THEY DO HAVE THEIR OWN MARCHES, from stopping the Gardiner Expressway two years ago to camping in front of the Toronto Police headquarters in the freezing cold, it's an ongoing process and won't stop until people listen to them. If anything, the only thing that disappoints me about BLMTO is that the response has been primarily hashtag activism, which is not enough to help further their demands. They are great at getting publicity, but things are not getting substantively better for Black people here in Canada as a result of this.

Look at carding, still the unchallenged policy of Toronto police. Look at the worryingly rapid increase in incarceration for Black Canadians, and the abuse they suffer in prisons. Look at horrendous rates of child poverty and education in Black Canadian communities. Look at the zero Black faces in our country's Cabinet that supposedly 'looks like' Canada. Yes, the Gay community has made great strides in this country and they did that by demanding change for their people, as BLM is doing now.

[allegro]

But it was the UNsafest city in the country for a while
Compared to Detroit and Chicago and D.C. and Baltimore?


You know that big pretty white bridge?
HERE is better data (http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2015/09/color-coded-map-shows-racial-and-ethnic-make-up-of-north-texas-entire-u-s.html/).

Here's Detroit (http://i.imgur.com/GwR2FKv.png)

Here's Chicago (http://i.imgur.com/6eiUlVC.png)

Here's Baltimore (http://i.imgur.com/LAUbztE.png)

Here's Washington D.C. (http://i.imgur.com/7s8MTBZ.png)

Here's Milwaukee (http://i.imgur.com/5qNVOe2.png)

See also this (https://www.roadsnacks.net/most-dangerous-places-in-texas/).

BOTTOM LINE is that this recent terrible shooting incident in Dallas was most likely due to a guy who was mentally ill, maybe even due to PTSD from the military. He evidently wrote some stuff in his own blood on the walls of the parking garage (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/us/dallas-shooting-investigation/).


The killings of five officers came as a horrific shock to Johnson's parents -- especially because the Army veteran had wanted to be an officer when he was younger, his mother said.

"He loved his country," Delphine Johnson said in an interview with The Blaze. "He wanted to protect his country."

But his demeanor and attitude changed drastically after his six-year military service, which included seven months in Afghanistan, Johnson's mother told The Blaze. She said he morphed from a gregarious extrovert to a "hermit."

The gunman's father, James Johnson, said his son started delving into black history after he was honorably discharged last year. But he had no clue

[Hazekiah]

Well, I'll be double-motherfucking-dog-goddamned...

PERHAPS THE MOST BADASS, PROACTIVE STATEMENT I'VE HEARD ON THIS SHIT YET.



AND OMFG IT'S FROM A BLACK COP.



IF YOU CAN'T
BEAT 'EM, JOIN EM,
MOAR, PLZ



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Hazekiah/Mobile%20Uploads/FB_20160712_03_23_37_Saved_Picture_zpsqcakoova.jpg

[botley]

That's nice and all but will do nothing to fix systemic anti-Black prejudice on the force. The Black community is afraid for their lives and the message couldn't be clearer that a complete cultural change is necessary not just 'fewer bad apples'.

[cashpiles (closed)]

That's nice and all but will do nothing to fix systemic anti-Black prejudice on the force. The Black community is afraid for their lives and the message couldn't be clearer that a complete cultural change is necessary not just 'fewer bad apples'.

What would happen if all police officers were black? If that didn't solve the problem, then we'd see thst race wasn't the issue.

[Swykk]

What would happen if all police were unicorns?

Fact is that they aren't. So let reality set in.

These What If? scenarios do not work.

[allegro]

"The police" aren't the root of the problem; institutionalized racism is the problem. The fact that a huge percentage of the public thinks the status quo is okay and that the cops are always right is the problem. The Blue Wall where cops protect cops and never admit fault is the problem. The lack of disciplinary action against bad cops is the problem. The police culture is corrupt, our culture is racist, and we have some hard work ahead of us.

[ziltoid]

What would happen if all police officers were black? If that didn't solve the problem, then we'd see thst race wasn't the issue.
It does not fix anything or make things better, if anything if makes it worse.

Part I of the report, which begins on page three, begins with what the union feels is the root of many of the problems in the department - discriminatory hiring and promotion practices which routinely elevate comparably qualified, and even less qualified white officers over black officers and recruits. The higher up you go in the department, the report details, the whiter and whiter it gets.
Part II of the report, which begins on page 43, details critical flaws in how the department views crime in the city, approaches staffing for specialized teams, and has failed to address root problems.
Part III of the report, which begins on page 56, is perhaps the most damning. It details how white officers within the department who have been accused of murder and other crimes have been given better and more preferential treatment than black officers accused of relatively petty offenses.



It's exactly what allegro and botley are talking about.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-black-union-st-louis-slams-department-article-1.2702852

[elevenism]

Compared to Detroit and Chicago and D.C. and Baltimore?

Yes, back in the early 00's (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956781/posts), and it went on for a few years before the supposed misunderstandings in data reporting protocol.
Back then, i called bullshit on the statistic reporting "mistakes," but who knows?


But this is drift, and i certainly agree with your bottom line.

[orestes]

"The police" aren't the root of the problem; institutionalized racism is the problem. The fact that a huge percentage of the public thinks the status quo is okay and that the cops are always right is the problem. The Blue Wall where cops protect cops and never admit fault is the problem. The lack of disciplinary action against bad cops is the problem. The police culture is corrupt, our culture is racist, and we have some hard work ahead of us.

Furthermore, the good cops that do report corruption and excessive force by fellow officers receive retaliation in the form of termination, arrest or involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft).

[allegro]

Yes, back in the early 00's (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956781/posts), and it went on for a few years before the supposed misunderstandings in data reporting protocol.
Back then, i called bullshit on the statistic reporting "mistakes," but who knows?

Well and notice that the article didn't cite any sources. Detroit news articles used to do the same shit, to incite negative attitudes about Detroit; drove me nuts, "say bad shit about Detroit" instead of positive shit, always perpetuating bad press and bad information and digging itself into a hole which does nobody any good. Like there is some Award for Shit Hole and everybody can be proud, and they don't want to get out of that Shit Hole.

[elevenism]

Well and notice that the article didn't cite any sources. Detroit news articles used to do the same shit, to incite negative attitudes about Detroit; drove me nuts, "say bad shit about Detroit" instead of positive shit, always perpetuating bad press and bad information and digging itself into a hole which does nobody any good. Like there is some Award for Shit Hole and everybody can be proud, and they don't want to get out of that Shit Hole.
Jim Schutze is one of my favorite dallas writers though. He writes for the alternative weekly.
I would bet that his intentions were to alert people to the situation and then look for ways to rise above it.
If you lived in dallas and were into city politics, i think he would be your favorite writer too, allegro

[cashpiles (closed)]

The parade is a focal point of media attention and they invited BLM to march as guests of honour, what were they expecting?

@cashpiles (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=750) Once again, if you pretend this is not a Canadian issue, you are completely wrong, and guess what—THEY DO HAVE THEIR OWN MARCHES, from stopping the Gardiner Expressway two years ago to camping in front of the Toronto Police headquarters in the freezing cold, it's an ongoing process and won't stop until people listen to them. If anything, the only thing that disappoints me about BLMTO is that the response has been primarily hashtag activism, which is not enough to help further their demands. They are great at getting publicity, but things are not getting substantively better for Black people here in Canada as a result of this.

Look at carding, still the unchallenged policy of Toronto police. Look at the worryingly rapid increase in incarceration for Black Canadians, and the abuse they suffer in prisons. Look at horrendous rates of child poverty and education in Black Canadian communities. Look at the zero Black faces in our country's Cabinet that supposedly 'looks like' Canada. Yes, the Gay community has made great strides in this country and they did that by demanding change for their people, as BLM is doing now.

I didn't know about the justice system's racism in Canada... but as for the BLM being invited to the Pride March as "honored guests" ... this is false. They showed up to the parade unannounced.. stopped the parade for 30 minutes and handed the leadership a list of demands that included a statement that they be represented as honored guests.. only when the membership agreed to their demands did the parade resume.

[botley]

BLM being invited to the Pride March as "honored guests" ... this is false. They showed up to the parade unannounced.. stopped the parade for 30 minutes and handed the leadership a list of demands that included a statement that they be represented as honored guests.
That is entirely at odds with what what the executive director of Pride Toronto claims (http://www.advocate.com/pride/2016/7/04/toronto-reminds-us-pride-protest) happened, and I don't have reason to disbelieve him. You should read up more on this before spouting further misinformation, and I don't mean from out-of-touch columnists in dying newspapers writing clickbait.

[Frozen Beach]

I'm surprised no one has posted this. I'm interested in reading some opinions


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html)

[Archive_Reports]

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-36777582

[allegro]

I'm surprised no one has posted this. I'm interested in reading some opinions


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html)


The study examined more than 1,000 shootings in 10 major police departments, in Texas, Florida and California.
To me, that's not nearly enough data.

Edit:
Ah, yeah:


The counterintuitive results provoked debate after the study was posted on Monday, mostly about the volume of police encounters and the scope of the data. Mr. Fryer emphasizes that the work is not the definitive analysis of police shootings, and that more data would be needed to understand the country as a whole.

[botley]

Fun with cherry-picking! Discredit overwhelming trends by emphasizing isolated examples unrelated to the wider movement. These are things people will do to discredit BLM (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gGQnJ8kXUko&list=TLG3gG9WTJdSAxNDA3MjAxNg). Don't buy into that nonsense.

[Khrz]

Yeah the reddit thread that this article sparked was as pretty and peaceful as a leprous dog fight. Nasty bits flying all around, no one came clean out of that one...

[implanted_microchip]

reddit thread

Well, there's your problem right there

[Khrz]

Well, there's your problem right there


Yeah I know, once you stray away for little " potatos with funny faces" subs, it's becoming a shithole. Hell, even very specialized subs tend to drift into "pompous and petty arguments about taxonomy and rhetoric" real fast. Main subs, especially news ones, are just a fucking mess nowadays.
I love humanity, but by god I'm really starting to loathe people.

[allegro]

Yeah I know, once you stray away for little " potatos with funny faces" subs, it's becoming a shithole. Hell, even very specialized subs tend to drift into "pompous and petty arguments about taxonomy and rhetoric" real fast. Main subs, especially news ones, are just a fucking mess nowadays.
I love humanity, but by god I'm really starting to loathe people.

I saw this article about empathy (https://medium.com/@stephaniewittelswachs/the-end-of-empathy-5d8383b066d3#.8zih3ed7p) linked on Twitter and I loved it, thought it is so true (and it seems so lacking online these days).

The brother she mentions in the article was Harris Wittels (http://www.eonline.com/news/680932/harris-wittels-cause-of-death-revealed-parks-and-recreation-producer-died-from-accidental-heroin-overdose).

[Khrz]

I saw this article about empathy (https://medium.com/@stephaniewittelswachs/the-end-of-empathy-5d8383b066d3#.8zih3ed7p) linked on Twitter and I loved it, thought it is so true (and it seems so lacking online these days).

The brother she mentions in the article was Harris Wittels (http://www.eonline.com/news/680932/harris-wittels-cause-of-death-revealed-parks-and-recreation-producer-died-from-accidental-heroin-overdose).

Which allows me to segue back smoothly on the topic at hand : If people stop being brutal assholes because of peer pressure/review, does it fix the problem ? They're still toxic, destructive shitheads.
It's good that you can correct and prevent negative action, but you're still dealing with potentially nasty creatures at heart. Left to their own devices, people will just ruin each other's life, sometimes just for the heck of it.
I don't know, I guess I just shouldn't think too hard about people nowadays.

[allegro]

Which allows me to segue back smoothly on the topic at hand : If people stop being brutal assholes because of peer pressure/review, does it fix the problem ? They're still toxic, destructive shitheads.
It's good that you can correct and prevent negative action, but you're still dealing with potentially nasty creatures at heart. Left to their own devices, people will just ruin each other's life, sometimes just for the heck of it.
I don't know, I guess I just shouldn't think too hard about people nowadays.

Yeah, it's a tough call, whether or not we can "fix" people who are racist. But if the whole SYSTEM changes, maybe those racists will eventually die off by attrition?

The "good" thing is how many people out there, of all backgrounds, really want change.

[ziltoid]

Which allows me to segue back smoothly on the topic at hand : If people stop being brutal assholes because of peer pressure/review, does it fix the problem ? They're still toxic, destructive shitheads.
It's good that you can correct and prevent negative action, but you're still dealing with potentially nasty creatures at heart. Left to their own devices, people will just ruin each other's life, sometimes just for the heck of it.
I don't know, I guess I just shouldn't think too hard about people nowadays.

Slightly off topic but your comment reminded me of the Stanford prison experiment that took place in the 1970's and somewhat reinforces your point.

It's a really good short documentary that I highly recommend everyone watches.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_LKzEqlPto

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment



And back on topic.
Killer Mike's Challenge has succeeded in 5 days.
In my opinion this is a big step for the change that people want and is needed.
It reinforces that they have the power to change the system.


Killer Mike has put his, and other people’s, money where his mouth is. His challenge for African-Americans to move their money into a local Black bank has seen almost one million dollars transported.

Killer Mike‘s original challenge came about in February when he, Usher, Big K.R.I.T. and Jermaine Dupri hosted an event to encourage fellow Atlanta residents to open up checking and savings accounts at Citizens Trust Bank, the leading minority-owned bank in the city.
However, he reiterated the move in a powerful interview on Hot 107.9 where after the back-to-back police killings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, he challenged Blacks to fight against the system with the dollars. The people listened.

In the week since the interview a new awareness of Black-owned banks has arisen and Citizens Trust Bank has revealed that they have opened 8,000 new accounts in just the last few days. With a minimum of $100 dollars required to open an account, that means at least $800,000 dollars has been moved into the bank.
There have been reports and talk on social media that the bank has overwhelmed by the number of people who have been walking in and opening new accounts. But, the long lines have not discouraged anyone.
CTB president and CEO Cynthia N. Day publicly thanked Mike for his efforts on Twitter.
(http://hiphopwired.com/2016/07/14/killer-mike-bank-black-challenge-moved-800k-five-days/)

[Frozen Beach]

oh crap, my bad, I had both threads open

[sick among the pure]

As a gay man fuck you....your so narrow minded. Simply Questioning BLM tactics means im racist...fuck you

As a gay man fuck you too. You don't speak for our whole god damn community.
Hell, I can top you. As a gay trans man who is of middle eastern heritage, you can fuck right off. There, is that how it works? Do we get to tell people to fuck off just because we don't want to listen to them?

[DigitalChaos]

As a gay man fuck you too. You don't speak for our whole god damn community.
Hell, I can top you. As a gay trans man who is of middle eastern heritage, you can fuck right off. There, is that how it works? Do we get to tell people to fuck off just because we don't want to listen to them?

I have no idea wtf this topic even is anymore, but how does this "top" the person you quoted???

[cashpiles (closed)]

other root problems are poverty and single-parent families. studies have shown again and again that poverty and unstable home environments correlate to increased levels of crime and violence.

all root problems will have to be solved.

[allegro]

other root problems are poverty and single-parent families. studies have shown again and again that poverty and unstable home environments correlate to increased levels of crime and violence.

all root problems will have to be solved.

As somebody raised by a single mother, you are misunderstanding the difference between "family structure" and "stable home environment (http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/familystability.htm)."

There is no data that correlates police brutality to crime. The data that does is bad, spun data. There is zero excuse for police brutality.

[botley]

Do we get to tell people to fuck off just because we don't want to listen to them?
What Exocet said was wrong, and he apologized to me privately, so I appreciate the concern but there's no need to lecture him and drag the topic further off course (as DigitalChaos alluded to). Let's keep talking about police.

Of course everyone should be welcome at a Pride parade but it's not unreasonable of BLM to ask that police officers not wear uniforms on a parade float. Over in St. John's, Newfoundland the parade organizers already requested that off-duty officers not do that (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/pride-parade-stjohns-no-police-uniforms-1.3671841).

EDIT: It's been requested in Ottawa, too (http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/news/ottawa/2016/07/14/ottawa-police-asked-not-to-wear-uniform-in-pride-parade.html). It seems there hasn't been a final decision yet about this from any of the Pride organizations.

[Archive_Reports]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/14/us/fresno-dylan-noble-shooting-video/index.html

Surprised there's been no mention of this.

[allegro]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/14/us/fresno-dylan-noble-shooting-video/index.html

Surprised there's been no mention of this.

That sounds like "death by cop" (suicide).

[cashpiles (closed)]

Of course everyone should be welcome at a Pride parade but it's not unreasonable of BLM to ask that police officers not wear uniforms on a parade float. Over in St. John's, Newfoundland the parade organizers already requested that off-duty officers not do that (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/pride-parade-stjohns-no-police-uniforms-1.3671841).


ya and white people should cover their white skin completely at the pride parade because some white people are racist.

[botley]

Okay, that's enough; you make me sorry I tried to have a reasonable discussion with you.

[cashpiles (closed)]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/07/17/reports-baton-rouge-police-officers-shot/87218884/



Report: 2 Baton Rouge police officers shot dead

@Botley, I'm sorry I may have reacted too harshly and without thinking enough. If a an off-duty police officer wants to take part in the Pride Parade, I think they should be allowed to have the choice to wear a uniform or not. On-duty officers though, must wear uniforms.

[allegro]

@Botley, I'm sorry I may have reacted too harshly and without thinking enough. If a an off-duty police officer wants to take part in the Pride Parade, I think they should be allowed to have the choice to wear a uniform or not. On-duty officers though, must wear uniforms.
I believe it is VERY VERY common EVERYWHERE that police are ordered to not wear their uniforms anywhere when not on duty*. So it was a non-issue, anyway, and BLM probably didn't know that.

*In NYC, you can't even use a NYPD pen, NYPD stationary, or wear a NYPD hat or NYPD shirt or use a NYPD coffee mug while off-duty (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/nypd_who_cops_banned_from_wear.html).