Trump 2017: Year Zero

[Haysey_Draws]

Ha! 2002? At least Bush seemed sympathetic whenever innocent people died.
I'm thinking of the victims families and how they must feel to hear a world leader speak that way about the situation.


To be fair to the families i very much doubt what the soggy wotsit is saying is high on their radars, but yeah it is fucked up.

[allegro]

Thanks @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76). He is definitely less innocent on that one than I originally thought. I still understand his decision to send the notification. It's a tough one. If there ended up being evidence of guilt in the new data... many more people would be fine with him flagging it when he did. Mostly, if everyone actually read Comey's letter, I really doubt there would have been much impact. But everyone read the press headlines and sensationalism instead.

The data should have been scanned for possible problems, first, then the AG should have determined what to do about it if the data contained information that changed the decision to prosecute.

Here's the thing: Clinton had already been cleared because there lacked MOTIVE to do anything DELIBERATELY. There could be absolutely NOTHING on that laptop that CHANGED the motive. NOTHING. Comey is a "cover my own ass" man. That's ALL he cares about. He might have had aspirations for a higher job and didn't want any skeletons. But, there IS such a thing as covering your ass SO much that you jeopardize your position, step on people's toes, wreck investigations, unnecessarily hurt others, etc.

Just like his covering his ass with the Trump meetings. Sorry, Comey, the way to cover your ass is to refer the meeting request to your superiors, and let them explain to the President that you aren't allowed to meet with the President. Period. THAT'S really covering your own ass. Instead, he put the President in a compromising position so that Comey could try to keep his own job. He puts himself first, everybody else last. Comey's decision to meet with the President, AND his prior decisions relating to the Clinton information, led to Comey's being fired, all of which - in light of the investigation into the Trump campaign - puts the PRESIDENT under a ton of scrutiny, and a lot of it is Comey's fault at this point.

Correct procedures re laptop: Scan data, analyze, THEN talk with Congress if new evidence pointed to a correction of the prior "no crime" decision. But, FIRST, CLEAR ALL DECISIONS TO SPEAK TO ANYBODY WITH YOUR BOSSES, FIRST!

There was a current investigation regarding some people in the Trump team, including Flynn, etc., and there was no memo to Congress before the election about THAT shit, even though it could have affected Trump's decision to hire Flynn, could have informed the Vice President that what he was being told was bullshit. Comey's excuse re same is lame (http://www.businessinsider.com/comey-explained-clinton-emails-trump-russia-2017-5). Disclosing under oath doesn't obligate you to personally keep everybody up-to-date after you take that oath. The oath relates only to information UP TO THAT MOMENT. If you are concerned about information and the American public, you then open that door to keeping the American public up-to-date about EVERYTHING, FOREVER. And that's a load of shit. FBI investigations are supposed to be kept confidential, FOR MANY REALLY GOOD REASONS. Just because you testified under oath about a matter (that had since been determined to have no criminal basis), that doesn't mean that you have to keep reporting about it after you took that oath. The oath doesn't say "And do you promise to keep telling us about every single thing that the FBI stumbles upon, keeping us up-to-date, even though you already determined the lack of motive or any intelligence showing that a private email server was not intentionally set up in order to commit treason, etc.?" Nope.

READ THE ROSENSTEIN MEMO, HERE, ANNOTATED. (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/rosenstein-letter-annotated/526116/)

NOTE:

1. It's a really really good memo, from a legal standpoint.

2. Rosenstein NEVER ONCE advises that the President should FIRE Comey in that memo.

[Deepvoid]

The fact that Alex Jones/Infowars have WH credentials makes me want to puke and I'm not even a US citizen.

Of course Jones called the Manchester victims "“a bunch of liberals who have already run up the white flag to the Islamists, and this happens so more of our liberties can be lost, and so governments in Europe, the U.K., and the U.S. can say, ‘Don’t criticize Muslims, or they’ll blow you up, because they’re the religion of peace.’”.

[Louie_Cypher]

The fact that Alex Jones/Infowars have WH credentials makes me want to puke and I'm not even a US citizen.

Of course Jones called the Manchester victims "“a bunch of liberals who have already run up the white flag to the Islamists, and this happens so more of our liberties can be lost, and so governments in Europe, the U.K., and the U.S. can say, ‘Don’t criticize Muslims, or they’ll blow you up, because they’re the religion of peace.’”. if you don't think trump isn't happy every time

there is an ISIS attack no matter who you how many it kills you are mistaken
-Louie

[Louie_Cypher]

The fact that Alex Jones/Infowars have WH credentials makes me want to puke and I'm not even a US citizen.

Of course Jones called the Manchester victims "“a bunch of liberals who have already run up the white flag to the Islamists, and this happens so more of our liberties can be lost, and so governments in Europe, the U.K., and the U.S. can say, ‘Don’t criticize Muslims, or they’ll blow you up, because they’re the religion of peace.’”. if you don't think trump isn't happy every time

there is an ISIS attack no matter who or how many it kills you are mistaken
-Louie

[Louie_Cypher]

i think we need to re-think our approach to all of this an eye for an eye only leaves everyone blind, we'll be diving for dear life when we could be diving for pearls
-Louie

[allegro]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/4615bca30439a86aab422f6eaaf72fb2.jpg
.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/7a1544d21eb8dfcba4c1cbbbfd20314a.jpg

Fucking Cosmo. What the fuck.

Except that guy up there is SIKH. He's NOT Muslim. We have a Sikh community in and around the Chicago area, they wear those turbans; Muslim men wear a different kind of headgear and most DON'T wear any headgear.

https://twitter.com/SinghLions?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp% 7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

https://twitter.com/SinghLions/status/867418676470861824

Not that Muslim cab drivers weren't also picking people up for free in Manchester, but this kinda shows people's really glaring ignorance on the topic. Especially Cosmo, duh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctmgFiL5diU&feature=youtu.be

[Haysey_Draws]

The fact that Alex Jones/Infowars have WH credentials makes me want to puke and I'm not even a US citizen.

Of course Jones called the Manchester victims "“a bunch of liberals who have already run up the white flag to the Islamists, and this happens so more of our liberties can be lost, and so governments in Europe, the U.K., and the U.S. can say, ‘Don’t criticize Muslims, or they’ll blow you up, because they’re the religion of peace.’”.

I'm not an angry person, but FUCK ALEX JONES, FUCKING CUNT! LESS THAN 12 HOURS AFTER AND HE IS USING THEIR DEATHS FOR HIS OWN MEANS, THE DEATHS OF FUCKING CHILDREN! *deep breaths*

Seriously though i hope he never visits Manchester, they don't forget!

[Jinsai]

I think I went past ignorance. It was a desire to make a narrative fit. It said "Sikh" in the tweet she copied.

This is where you're missing something... most Americans THINK Sikh's are Muslims.

"They look Middle Eastern and they wear things on their head that look weird that definitely aren't yarmulkes...."

I went into a convenience store in Echo Park where the owner had plastered his business with signs insisting "I AM NOT A MUSLIM! and PLEASE stop fucking with me because you think I'm a muslim. "

I asked him how that was going, and he just said "here's your change, and not good." This is in a liberal heart of a liberal area. I can't imagine what Sikh's are constantly disavowing on a national level.

[Deepvoid]

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/18646228_1158778817619711_272367056177856512_n.jpg

[Louie_Cypher]

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/18646228_1158778817619711_272367056177856512_n.jpg who knew Trump was in with so many celbs, got ghost b.c. the twins from the shinning and mortia
-Louie

[allegro]

US leaks identity of the Manchester bomber to the press. UK is pissed off because they are trying to track down his associates. UK halts intel sharing with the US.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/25/europe/manchester-terror-attack-uk/
A PHOTO OF ONE OF THE BOMBS and other forensic evidence (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/opinion/outrage-over-the-timess-publication-of-the-manchester-bomb-photos.html?_r=0) was also leaked, which was only in the possession of UK officials and was only given to US officials and the leak of this photo is REALLY bad, they say.

[Exocet]

What does it say when countries like the UK and Israel find it detrimental to their own security to share their intelligence with the US???

The rift between the intelligence agencies and Trump is really bad....

[Jinsai]

A PHOTO OF ONE OF THE BOMBS and other forensic evidence (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/opinion/outrage-over-the-timess-publication-of-the-manchester-bomb-photos.html?_r=0) was also leaked, which was only in the possession of UK officials and was only given to US officials and the leak of this photo is REALLY bad, they say.

My god...

So, where does the hammer fall here? How are we sure the leak emanated from the US and not the UK?

[Louie_Cypher]

My god...

So, where does the hammer fall here? How are we sure the leak emanated from the US and not the UK? no one not here or the UK trusts trump he's lied over and over and over again since day one and connection with the Russian's i wouldn't trust him with my car key's if i was fall down drunk, would you?
-Louie

[Jinsai]

Just because we've become accustomed to rampant incompetence from our current administration doesn't mean we can automatically assume that they're responsible for every single mishandling of secure information. I don't have time at the moment, but I'd be curious to look into it more.

[allegro]

My god...

So, where does the hammer fall here? How are we sure the leak emanated from the US and not the UK?

The UK is asserting that it came from the U.S., since it was published in the NY Times. But the NY Times article in question indicated that the article's data is "according to preliminary information gathered by British authorities (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-arena-bomb-materials-photos.html)."


The initial analysis of the bomb, based on evidence photographed and collected at the crime scene and distributed by British authorities, does not specify the size or type of explosive used in the bomb’s main charge but suggests an improvised device made with forethought and care.

So, I dunno; the NY Times piece does not indicated that the sources were U.S. sources.

And most "leaks" are usually from within the Intelligence community, itself; Trump has been accused of leaking his own info, but that info is the minority of the leaked info that is most likely coming from the FBI and/or CIA (to hurt Trump).

[Jinsai]

The UK is asserting that it came from the U.S., since it was published in the NY Times. But the NY Times article in question indicated that the article's data is "according to preliminary information gathered by British authorities (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-arena-bomb-materials-photos.html)."

Which is probably the information shared with the US?

I guess we're just going to accept that the UK will consider us incapable of handling sensitive info, unless evidence to the contrary turns up... and that assumption is a relatively safe one, sadly.

Also, try to watch Trump shove aside the leader of Montenegro so that he can stand front/center at the NATO summit without cringing. This may be his most cringe-inducing moment since he assumed office? (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/us/politics/trump-push-aside-leader-montenegro-nato-summit.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)

[allegate]

I don't know how reliable these "Rogue" twitter accounts are but here you go:

https://twitter.com/RogueSNRadvisor/status/867830294652477441

[allegro]

I don't know how reliable these "Rogue" twitter accounts are but here you go:

https://twitter.com/RogueSNRadvisor/status/867830294652477441
I follow him, he's hilarious. It's all tongue-in-cheek sarcastic and some is probably on-the-money.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RogueSNRadvisor/status/867212109326594048

[Louie_Cypher]

jk calls it http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jk-rowling-tiny-little-man-tweet-trump-shoves-montenegro-pm_us_59271d66e4b062f96a34f423?tki&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
-Louie

[Jinsai]

everyone is tripping over themselves to make fun of Trump for "pushing" the PM but i bet the is more to the story outside of the frame

I'm sure it couldn't be as bad as it looks, because it looks so goddamn bad that it's astonishing.

Apparently, there were assigned positions that everyone was instructed to assemble into. Perhaps Trump was just nervous about flubbing that part of it and looking like he didn't know what the hell he was doing again, so he wanted to make sure he was where he was supposed to be. Maybe he's autistic. I don't know... but it totally looks like he's just shoving the guy out of the way because he doesn't give a shit about him, and thinks the show is him and him only here.

And that's what everything looks like with him...
I'm sure he'll find some limp excuse for it, and it will probably sound insane as usual.

But again... if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and it's named Donald, it's probably a duck.

[Jinsai]

the fact that there ONLY seems to be a 10sec clip of it everywhere is quite suspicious to me

That's healthy skepticism.

But, what if there's just not much else to see beyond that point? I'm sure Breitbart and InfoWars have the full clip... If there was something following that moment that exonerated Trump, they'd be blasting it from the rooftops.

[theimage13]

kinda looked like he got his foot stepped on, IMO

the fact that there ONLY seems to be a 10sec clip of it everywhere is quite suspicious to me

Sure, and if there wasn't already a wealth of other instances showing him taking a clearly impatient "me first, the hell with the rest of you" approach, I might join your skepticism. But it's well documented that he's a rather crass person who needs to be the center of attention, so the video that we've seen does nothing more than fall directly in line with his past behavior. He hasn't given us any reason not to think that he's shoving someone aside.

[allegate]

http://i.imgur.com/optPcOp.jpg

[Jinsai]

I know that bad international optics are the thing right now, and we're focusing a bizarre amount on body language, but this is Trump, and HOLY SHIT!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cahph7TR0YA

[Louie_Cypher]

Lots to pick up here. FBI is looking into an attempted hack of the Trump org.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-probing-attempted-hack-trump-organization-officials/story?id=47652150

1 - his kids are dumbasses that sound like him:
“We absolutely weren’t hacked,” Eric Trump said during the brief call. “That’s crazy. We weren’t hacked, I can tell you that.”


2 - this quote says it all:
In the course of its investigation, the FBI could get access to the Trump Organization’s computer network, meaning FBI agents could possibly find records connected to other investigations. "There could be stuff in there that they do not want to become part of a separate criminal investigation," Frankel said. more trump diversion, just like Obama wiretapped me!, because you were under investigation from the FBI, he's hoping on fatigue, just like the election, just like his taxes if you look you'll see he operates a lot like Putin, wake up America
-Louie

[Jinsai]

Der Spiegel is reporting that Trump said, during a meeting with EU leaders at the NATO summit, "Germany is evil, very evil." Depending on translation, he could have said "Bad, very bad."

Neither of those statements should be said at an international meeting... especially not as part of a discussion where you try to order their automotive industry to manufacture in America... during a meeting ostensibly related to unified military alliance. This after publicly chastising our allies for not meeting their deadlines? I couldn't have imagined this would go this badly.

[GulDukat]

The plot thickens:https://www.google.com/searchurl/rr.html#app=com.washingtonpost.android&pingbase=https://www.google.com/&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-ambassador-told-moscow-that-kushner-wanted-secret-communications-channel-with-kremlin/2017/05/26/520a14b4-422d-11e7-9869-bac8b446820a_story.html

[GulDukat]

The plot thickens: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-ambassador-told-moscow-that-kushner-wanted-secret-communications-channel-with-kremlin/2017/05/26/520a14b4-422d-11e7-9869-bac8b446820a_story.html

[Exocet]

The democrats are using the whole Russia thing...the way the Republicans used Benghazi..

I know Trump is a milestone in awfulness...for American politics...

But why is it so hard for people to look at this objectively....and evaluate both sides...

On another note....Trump called the Manchester bomber and all suicide bombers losers.....this made me remember why he won....he cut straight to the point in a way Obama, Angela Merkel, Theresa May, Emmanuelle Macron never would...

[theimage13]

But why is it so hard for people to look at this objectively....and evaluate both sides...

What aren't we looking at objectively, exactly? We're examining a mounting list of evidence that the campaign was illegally involved with Russia and actively working to circumvent official US channels and hold talks behind the government's back. There's nothing subjective about being concerned that there seems to be a growing list of evidence regarding this.

I think we're also quite objective in the bipartisan view that the AHCA will cost over 20 million people access to health care, that the budget has a two TRILLION dollar math error in it, and that the Commander in Chief has bragged about sexually assaulting women while simultaneously slashing access to health insurance for them. These are all objective things that are actually, measurably happening. Nothing subjective about it.

[WorzelG]

On another note....Trump called the Manchester bomber and all suicide bombers losers.....this made me remember why he won....he cut straight to the point in a way Obama, Angela Merkel, Theresa May, Emmanuelle Macron never would...
You talk like it was a landslide victory, he never even won the popular vote. And the way he talks and comments on things and tweets is an embarrassment. He really has no class or dignity.
Personally I'd call the bombers psychopaths. Let's face it, losers are the sorts of people who voted Trump in the first place and being a loser doesnt make you evil

[Louie_Cypher]

apparently they went to jarred
-Louie

[allegro]

apparently they went to jarred
-Louie

Lol lol !!! :)

[Dryalex12]

Jesus Christ, Trump makes Andrew Johnston look like JFK....can't believe i defended this piece of shit excuse for a President....

[Louie_Cypher]

i think you will start hearing the term "plausible deniability" soon I remember wondering why Trump had so many inexperienced people in his inner circle, i believe he thought i would be like his tax returns and be forgotten, he has a history of of doing illegal things and either tying them up in court threatening to counter sue or just wearing people down which he states in"art of the deal"
-Louie

[Exocet]

You talk like it was a landslide victory, he never even won the popular vote. And the way he talks and comments on things and tweets is an embarrassment. He really has no class or dignity.
Personally I'd call the bombers psychopaths. Let's face it, losers are the sorts of people who voted Trump in the first place and being a loser doesnt make you evil

So you give more sympathy to the suicide bomber for being mentally ill than the Trump supporter all (65 Million of them)...Dont appease suicide bombers please....they are not psychopaths...they are vulnerable young men being exploited ....by people whose aim is an Islamic Caliphate...

[Louie_Cypher]

here's what a brilliant business man Trump is http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-atlantic-city-bankruptcy
-Louie

[Louie_Cypher]

Rodger Waters on trump: http://www.inquisitr.com/4250472/roger-waters-brings-powerful-anti-trump-message-on-new-tour-offending-some-fans/?utm_content=inf_11_3140_2&source=se&utm_source=se&utm_campaign=se&utm_medium=fb&tse_id=INF_0551b780432211e780b645b806a7020f
-Louie

[theimage13]

After three days, the @potus account tweets out a generic "we don't like white supremacists" message. A few points...

1) The message was almost assuredly not written by the president (it's spelled/punctuated correctly and was tweeted from the cobweb-covered official gov't account)
2) Regardless of who actually penned it, it doesn't even mention the names of the three people who were stabbed (two fatally) when defending against bigotry, racism, and hatred.
3) People are popping up and going "God, first you get mad at Trump for not tweeting about it, and now you're mad that he has? You'll just hate him no matter what, won't you?"

NO, SHITTARD. SEE POINTS ONE AND TWO.

The President should have been on top of this the day it happened. There should have been condolences to the families of the murdered people, and a damning reminder that the asshole who did this does not represent what Trump stands for. 99% sure that Trump doesn't give a flying fuck that those guys were killed defending a couple of teenage girls from a white supremacist.

[Jinsai]

But why is it so hard for people to look at this objectively....and evaluate both sides...

On another note....Trump called the Manchester bomber and all suicide bombers losers.....this made me remember why he won....he cut straight to the point in a way Obama, Angela Merkel, Theresa May, Emmanuelle Macron never would...

This is the most ludicrous version of the "see, this is why Trump won" thing. You think him demonstrating his limited, childish vocabulary is endearing and cuts "straight to the point?" The problem is, the fact that there's actually enough stupid fuckers in this country who want a president to call the terrorists "losers" is why Trump won.

Not because he's some great communicator, but because a lot of Americans suck at communication and like baby words and infantile tantrum politics. That's the appeal to the "gee politics are confusing! Why can't my president just tell me who the losers are?" demographic, and it's tragic that it worked.

[allegate]

Its just frustrating to see that Kusner asked Russia to setup communications with their tools. If you were trying to avoid the eyes of the US government you would NOT do this. You'd use some common privacy tools that gives you deniability and wouldn't make your comms stand out like a sore thumb. And that's if he was dumb enough to do it directly.

I don't know. It all appears as if it were some kid trying to rob a bank for the first time and simply wearing a fake mustache. There is just NO tradecraft here, unless there is a lot more to the story. This also strikes me as being so much of a failure that there is no way this is part of some secret Russian plot to infiltrate the government. Russia wouldn't allow an asset in any position, let alone such a high level one, to be this incompetent. At best, maybe its some backroom business dealings trying to unfold that were initiated by the Trump side.
This is a familiar argument, where have I heard it before? Oh yeah. When they said that Trump was too dumb to spill secrets to the Russians.

[allegate]

The democrats are using the whole Russia thing...the way the Republicans used Benghazi..

I know Trump is a milestone in awfulness...for American politics...

But why is it so hard for people to look at this objectively....and evaluate both sides...

On another note....Trump called the Manchester bomber and all suicide bombers losers.....this made me remember why he won....he cut straight to the point in a way Obama, Angela Merkel, Theresa May, Emmanuelle Macron never would...
Do you have an ellipses button on your keyboard instead of punctuation?

No wait...

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/malcolminthemiddle/images/7/77/Stevie1.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20120709162318

[allegate]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18671280_1799867396995200_9080032919711851882_n.jp g?oh=91c252928ad043a38f93331b8356b6c0&oe=59B97E42

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/93074976/following-donald-trumps-trip-angela-merkel-says-europe-cant-rely-on-us

[GulDukat]

Today's press conference was, uh, interesting.

[GulDukat]

The democrats are using the whole Russia thing...the way the Republicans used Benghazi..

I know Trump is a milestone in awfulness...for American politics...

But why is it so hard for people to look at this objectively....and evaluate both sides...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

[onthewall2983]

https://twitter.com/roguepotusstaff/status/869675791486988288


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[theimage13]

https://twitter.com/roguepotusstaff/status/869675791486988288


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am utterly embarrassed by how long it took me to figure out which song that was. Without formatting or music playing, I was stuck on "I KNOW what this is, so why can't I think of it?!!?!" for a solid minute.

[Jinsai]

I am utterly embarrassed by how long it took me to figure out which song that was. Without formatting or music playing, I was stuck on "I KNOW what this is, so why can't I think of it?!!?!" for a solid minute.

Aren't those the wrong lyrics though?! Doesn't it go "How many you would lead astray, you've taken everything."

Is this the Mandela effect thing again?

[theimage13]

Aren't those the wrong lyrics though?! Doesn't it go "How many you would lead astray, you've taken everything."

Is this the Mandela effect thing again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHlpHfRBRe4

Start it at 3:04 if you want the line leading up to it. Lyrics seem pretty clear to me.

[marodi]

Aren't those the wrong lyrics though?! Doesn't it go "How many you would lead astray, you've taken everything."

Is this the Mandela effect thing again?

Mandela effect. The only difference I see is that the twitter post says "how many you've betrayed" when I clearly hear "how many you betray"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHlpHfRBRe4

Start it at 3:04 if you want the line leading up to it. Lyrics seem pretty clear to me.

Oh great; now I miss the Finckster.

Also: they are on their hands and knees at the WH? Is Bill Clinton back without anyone noticing?

Yeah, lame joke is lame. I need more Finckster.

[Jinsai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHlpHfRBRe4

Start it at 3:04 if you want the line leading up to it. Lyrics seem pretty clear to me.I just listened to it again, and it still sounds like "you would lead astray," but I can hear what it actually is. Learned something new.

So... on another note, clicking through the news outlets today has been crazy.

1. The intention behind the clandestine link Kushner was trying to establish is being called under scrutiny. Additionally, Trump's longtime lawyer, Michael "says who" Cohen, is also now under investigation regarding Russian election meddling.

2. WH Communications director Michael Dubke has resigned, as he stated he intended to do at the end of Trump's first international trip. For reason, he just said that it's "personal," and "as friendly a departure as one could have." He was known as one of the aides who tried to reign in Emperor Donald's craziness. That said, his "oh, I'm proud to have worked for Trump," and his repeated (vague) assurances that this is all great and stuff, along with Priebus adding in that Dubke "will be a strong advocate for the president and the president's policies moving forward."

Sounds kinda like he signed a loyalty pledge or something... Either way, this is being viewed by analysts as the beginning of a sweeping shake up in WH Staff.

3. Fox & Friends runs an article inferring that Kushner's trip to Russia was a one-off, and that the communication was started by the Russians, not Kushner, and that the meeting was to discuss the handling of the Syrian civil war... with a Russian banker. This take on events is credited to an anonymous source, and directly contradicts reports from WaPo and NYTimes. An NPR reporter learned that the lead reporter and source-fetter was Catherine Herridge, and that the source was someone "who has talked to Kushner talked to Fox News." If we wanted to speculate, the NPR reporter muses that the source might be Rupert Murdoch.

Catherine Herridge had a moment a couple weeks back where she implied that the real reason Comey was fired was because it was taking him too long to uncover Obama's wire tapping efforts.

4. Trump retweets that Fox and Friends story. Fox and Trump love anonymous sources, when the "leak" is in their favor.

5. Donald Trump's twitter follower count has spiked up since his return from his big boy trip, with three million fake bot accounts. Twitter Audit analysis says 49% of his followers are likely fake bot accounts. Some of his outspoken regular critics have apparently been blocked. Side note, if we go back to the beginning of April, that the WH had issued an order to Twitter to reveal the identity of the group @ALT_NSCIS

6. Elizabeth Spiers, a former editor for Kushner's magazine The Observer, posts online that claims Kushner said (in reference to Trump's birtherism movement) "He doesn't really believe it. He just knows republicans are stupid and they'll buy it." She also quotes a friend of Trump's as saying "he'd lie to you about what time of day it is, just for the practice."

7. As Kushner became more intractable to the Trump campaign, the Observer shifted further right, and endorsed Trump for president, shocking many of the staff (and inspiring some to immediately resign). Last week, the editor of the Observer who replaced Spiers, Ken Kurson (who has been named as the co-author of some of Trump's speeches), resigned.

8. Two days ago, The Observer fired 4 staffers, including one who wrote the op-ed piece "An Open Letter to Jared Kushner, from One of Your Jewish Employees."

9. Germany has joined the UK in walking back their trust in trading sensitive information with the USA. Trump in return fires off an angry, vague, potentially threatening tweet chastising Germany. Steve Bannon undoubtably did a happy dance.

10. I'm sure the advancement of illusory support on Twitter, along with the blocking and replacing of honest press with sycophants and conspiracy theorists, all has been part of the new emergency damage-control plan (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/27/us/politics/trump-returns-to-crisis-over-kushner-as-white-house-tries-to-contain-it.html)

If the White House wasn't in complete chaos before...

[Jinsai]

Ummmm... wtf is going on? 2 hours ago, Trump sent out this tweet:

Despite the constant negative press covfefe

[thelastdisciple]

Ummmm... wtf is going on? 2 hours ago, Trump sent out this tweet:

Despite the constant negative press covfefe
He either had a stroke or fell asleep whilst eating one of his shitty steaks. I imagine he'll come to later on completely dumbfounded wondering where he is and why there's a steak stuck to his face.

[baudolino]

dear 'mericans,
you should get accustomed to this map in time: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBKFwBsXsAA6UeK.jpg:large

[Haysey_Draws]

...i'm completely dumbfounded by this. Everyone, from greedy oil and coal businessmen, to China think the Paris Climate Agreement is a GOOD IDEA.

But not the soggy wotsit! The amount of damage he has caused in such a short amount of time is astonishing! ...fuck!

[allegro]

...i'm completely dumbfounded by this. Everyone, from greedy oil and coal businessmen, to China think the Paris Climate Agreement is a GOOD IDEA.

But not the soggy wotsit! The amount of damage he has caused in such a short amount of time is astonishing! ...fuck!

A TON of Republican voters really believe that climate change is a hoax, mostly because they think it's designed to hurt the economy but my husband's cousin actually believes that rising sea water is due to "more ships in the ocean" and water displacement. And nobody can convince him otherwise, even telling him that ships in an ocean are like marbles in a bathtub; scientists only "do things for research money" and they "aren't that smart."

[Haysey_Draws]

A TON of Republican voters really believe that climate change is a hoax, mostly because they think it's designed to hurt the economy but my husband's cousin actually believes that rising sea water is due to "more ships in the ocean" and water displacement. And nobody can convince him otherwise, even telling him that ships in an ocean are like marbles in a bathtub; scientists only "do things for research money" and they "aren't that smart."

...holy shit :eek: I don't even know what to say to that!

[allegate]

I do. For the longest time I was the snopes guy, constantly sending, "No pepsi/google/Microsoft/peeps won't give you a million dollars for forwarding this bull" back.

I can only imagine that's part of why no one emails me anymore. :/

[allegro]

I do. For the longest time I was the snopes guy, constantly sending, "No pepsi/google/Microsoft/peeps won't give you a million dollars for forwarding this bull" back.
When I Snopes these people (like my husband's relatives in Texas), they say: "Snopes is Libertard Fake News, run by Libtards."

I shit you not.

This is why I've grown to hate social media.

[baudolino]

...holy shit :eek: I don't even know what to say to that!

constructivism and relativism did this to us. since nothing is true, which is bs btw, everyone can make up their own, equally valid truth/reality.

and no one reads karl popper

so fucked up


this is madness:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170531/ff242e30250202442c6a9a83bfc643ee.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[allegate]

So you know how newspaper artists have long lead times, right? Like weeks in advance?

http://www.gocomics.com/brewsterrockit/2017/05/31

http://assets.amuniversal.com/e6e799501c990135b2a9005056a9545d

[allegro]

constructivism and relativism did this to us. since nothing is true, which is bs btw, everyone can make up their own, equally valid truth/reality.
In the case of things like climate change, a lot of the skeptic voters were around during the 1970s when we had the "omg stop buying all things aerosol, we're cooling the planet and we're all gonna freeze to death!" thing because scientists found a hole in the ozone layer and there was a fear-based frenzy. There was no internet but it all spread like wildfire, and aerosol became Enemy No. 1. We later found out that a hole in the ozone layer is probably a good thing (https://www.wired.com/2016/10/help-cool-climate-add-aerosol/).

[marodi]

In the case of things like climate change, a lot of the skeptic voters were around during the 1970s when we had the "omg stop buying all things aerosol, we're cooling the planet and we're all gonna freeze to death!" thing because scientists found a hole in the ozone layer and there was a fear-based frenzy. There was no internet but it all spread like wildfire, and aerosol became Enemy No. 1. We later found out that a hole in the ozone layer is probably a good thing (https://www.wired.com/2016/10/help-cool-climate-add-aerosol/).

Yeah, I remember that. And then we learned the truth: the farts of Australian cows is to blame.

Climate change is so bigly covfefe anyway.

[baudolino]

In the case of things like climate change, a lot of the skeptic voters were around during the 1970s when we had the "omg stop buying all things aerosol, we're cooling the planet and we're all gonna freeze to death!" thing because scientists found a hole in the ozone layer and there was a fear-based frenzy. There was no internet but it all spread like wildfire, and aerosol became Enemy No. 1. We later found out that aerosols and a hole in the ozone later is probably a good thing (https://www.wired.com/2016/10/help-cool-climate-add-aerosol/).


good for what? counter-acting global warming? which is man made all along. and the scientifically backed alarm-ism of the 70s/80s proofed effective in preventing a further deterioration of the ozone layer.

but sure, now we know better, which is also an argument against reactionary conservatism

[Louie_Cypher]

...holy shit :eek: I don't even know what to say to that! it does how often do you you hear the phrase " studies say" or "researchers say, today?" then something eggs are good eggs are bad, wine is good wine is bad, and nothing else who did the study how large was the control group, age, gender race, location, how long was it double blind, was any one blind. i think I'm going to buy a lab coat and just go around spewing shit like "researcher's say, giving me a blow job will lower your blood pressure by 10% giving me large sum's of money will increase your happiness quotient dramatically! off to buy lab coats
-Louie

[Jinsai]

If the US pulls out from the Paris Accord, it will have immediate ramifications beyond eventually destroying the planet. Other countries will follow, and the international diplomatic fallout will shatter our relationships with allied nations.

[tony.parente]

Didn't read through the comments but Laura Jane Grace is all over the replies to Kathys apology tweet.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kathygriffin/status/869703678550171648?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email&iid=22989f4d3890473396ce4d4c2744f9d7&uid=3307547802&nid=244+272699393

[allegro]

good for what? counter-acting global warming? which is man made all along. and the scientifically backed alarm-ism of the 70s/80s proofed effective in preventing a further deterioration of the ozone layer.

It doesn't cause further deterioration, as far as science knows. The decrease in aerosols led to closing up that hole in our ozone layer.

But, as advised by my college geology and meteorology professor (https://chroniclevitae.com/people/2753-richard-b-schultz-ph-d-c-p-g/profile), that hole was acting as a kind of "steam vent" (think: Tea Kettle) for our greenhouse. The Earth is deliberately surrounded by a greenhouse, to keep us warm [we aren't the Moon] and to also keep us cool. There is a fine balance. "Venting" that heat is a good thing.

When CO2 levels rise, this leads to more of the biggest greenhouse gas: H2O.

More CO2 leads to way more H2O, and more H2O leads to too much of a greenhouse effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect).

The 70s "alarmism" wasn't totally science-based or backed.

Read the Wired article I linked, above. Always look to see who wrote the article.

There is actually fake news online right now showing fake 70s cover stories about global cooling, just to attempt to counteract scientists' opinions about climate change.

HERE, SEE THIS. (https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliciamelvillesmith/trump-time-hoax-cover?utm_term=.kle3KKYvdv#.snZYPPDexe)

SEE ALSO (http://science.time.com/2013/06/06/sorry-a-time-magazine-cover-did-not-predict-a-coming-ice-age/)


But as John Cook points out over at Skeptical Science, global cooling was much more an invention of the media than it was a real scientific concern. A survey of peer-reviewed scientific papers published between 1965 and 1979 shows that the large majority of research at the time predicted that the earth would warm as carbon-dioxide levels rose — as indeed it has. And some of those global-cooling projections were based on the idea that aerosol levels in the atmosphere — which are a product of air pollution from sources like coal burning and which contribute to cooling by deflecting sunlight in the atmosphere — would keep rising. But thanks to environmental legislation like the Clean Air Acts, global air-pollution levels — not including greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide — peaked in the 1970s and began declining.

The reality is that scientists in the 1970s were just beginning to understand how climate change and aerosol pollution might impact global temperatures. Add in the media-hype cycle — which was true then as it is now — and you have some coverage that turned out to be wrong. But thanks to the Internet, those stories stay undead, recycled by notorious climate skeptics like George Will. Pay no attention to the Photoshop. It’s the science we should heed — and the science says man-made climate change is real and very, very worrying.

I went to an interesting lecture in college by a guy who ran a multi-million dollar company that assesses risk management. And corporations are going after this "climate change" issue as "risk management assessment. "Is it just a scare? Do we spend millions to avoid something that might cost us stock shares and millions?" It really does come down to this for corporations and risk management. That SAME risk management led to energy companies giving up on coal for energy; they saw that coal is running out, they see that the profits don't outweigh the risks and costs, so they switched to fracking and a lot of other alternative energies. The biggest source of global warming is US using electricity. And none of us humans are willing to give up on that. And no fancy "Accord" is going to fix that unless even CHINA is on board.

And they are, investing more money in the environment and alternative energy than any other country in the world.

Yet we in the U.S. constantly blame China.

But read this (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/world/asia/china-renewable-energy-investment.html).

[Louie_Cypher]

i think that is one of the great contradictions in science and medicine i have found both scientists doctors have a hard time saying the "words" we just don't know. I try and usually take route of plan for the worst and hope for the best. which is to say I don't think we know enough about the earth and how it functions as a whole to be able to really prescribe the best course of action
-Louie

[allegro]

Yeah, I remember that. And then we learned the truth: the farts of Australian cows.

But that wasn't the truth.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases

[allegro]

it does how often do you you hear the phrase " studies say" or "researchers say, today?" then something eggs are good eggs are bad, wine is good wine is bad, and nothing else who did the study how large was the control group, age, gender race, location, how long was it double blind, was any one blind. i think I'm going to buy a lab coat and just go around spewing shit like "researcher's say, giving me a blow job will lower your blood pressure by 10% giving me large sum's of money will increase your happiness quotient dramatically! off to buy lab coats
-Louie

And these discrepancies are why lots of people no longer trust "studies" or science.

The worst reality about climate change is that we have probably already gone past the "tipping point."

[Jinsai]

Trump to reinstate Cuba travel ban.

To reveal whether or not he'll withdraw from Paris Accord tomorrow at 3 pm... Like it's a fucking game show

[baudolino]

It doesn't cause further deterioration, as far as science knows. The decrease in aerosols led to closing up that hole in our ozone layer.

But, as advised by my college geology and meteorology professor (https://chroniclevitae.com/people/2753-richard-b-schultz-ph-d-c-p-g/profile), that hole was acting as a kind of "steam vent" (think: Tea Kettle) for our greenhouse. The Earth is deliberately surrounded by a greenhouse, to keep us warm [we aren't the Moon] and to also keep us cool. There is a fine balance. "Venting" that heat is a good thing.

When CO2 levels rise, this leads to more of the biggest greenhouse gas: H2O.

More CO2 leads to way more H2O, and more H2O leads to too much of a greenhouse effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect).

The 70s "alarmism" wasn't totally science-based or backed.

Read the Wired article I linked, above. Always look to see who wrote the article.

There is actually fake news online right now showing fake 70s cover stories about global cooling, just to attempt to counteract scientists' opinions about climate change.

HERE, SEE THIS. (https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliciamelvillesmith/trump-time-hoax-cover?utm_term=.kle3KKYvdv#.snZYPPDexe)

SEE ALSO (http://science.time.com/2013/06/06/sorry-a-time-magazine-cover-did-not-predict-a-coming-ice-age/)



I went to an interesting lecture in college by a guy who ran a multi-million dollar company that assesses risk management. And corporations are going after this "climate change" issue as "risk management assessment. "Is it just a scare? Do we spend millions to avoid something that might cost us stock shares and millions?" It really does come down to this for corporations and risk management. That SAME risk management led to energy companies giving up on coal for energy; they saw that coal is running out, they see that the profits don't outweigh the risks and costs, so they switched to fracking and a lot of other alternative energies. The biggest source of global warming is US using electricity. And none of us humans are willing to give up on that. And no fancy "Accord" is going to fix that unless even CHINA is on board.

And they are, investing more money in the environment and alternative energy than any other country in the world.

Yet we in the U.S. constantly blame China.

But read this (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/world/asia/china-renewable-energy-investment.html).

I referred to CFCs not aerosols per se. and i know that the ozone layer and its seasonal alterations plays a crucial role in keeping the ecosphere balanced as it has been for millennia.
i just doubt that proposals such as deliberately polluting the atmosphere would help (in regard of our current knowledge), but would mostly serve fossil companies to keep their profits high for the short term.

i haven't been aware of these silly fake covers though. all in all i think we are riding the same train anyway[emoji846]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[theimage13]

Trump to reinstate Cuba travel ban.

I'm so glad I got to work there for a couple weeks last year. I was in town at the same time as President Obama. Saw him in person during the meeting with Castro and watched the motorcade go by a couple of times. It was truly an inspiring experience. It felt like positive changes were on the horizon. And the Cubans? Didn't meet a single unpleasant one (okay, except the one at the hotel bar who refused to take anything but exact change for orders). The people of Havana were some of the nicest, friendliest, most hospitable people I have ever met.


To reveal whether or not he'll withdraw from Paris Accord tomorrow at 3 pm... Like it's a fucking game show

For what it's worth, this is not unprecedented. Of all the things to make fun of him for, scheduling a press conference to announce a decision on something is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[Haysey_Draws]

Nigel Farage is 'person of interest' in FBI investigation into Trump and Russia
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/01/nigel-farage-is-person-of-interest-in-fbi-investigation-into-trump-and-russia (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/01/nigel-farage-is-person-of-interest-in-fbi-investigation-into-trump-and-russia)

Because of course that shit weasel is involved!

[allegro]

I referred to CFCs not aerosols per se. and i know that the ozone layer and its seasonal alterations plays a crucial role in keeping the ecosphere balanced as it has been
Exactly.

The Wired article (above) asserts a "moral imperative" to save lives:


To date, there is no US government program, likely because of fears that mere talk of solar geoengineering lets polluters off the hook. Of course, solar geoengineering alone cannot stabilize the climate. The world must cut carbon dioxide emissions. But solar geoengineering is unique because it can help address already committed climate change—future climate change locked in due to past emissions. Cutting carbon emissions alone will not have immediate effects, given the length of time that carbon already in the atmosphere stays there.

The tradeoff between aerosols in the lower atmosphere (the troposphere) and deliberate aerosol injection at high altitudes (the stratosphere) adds another important moral dimension. In the ideal world, society would have cut both tropospheric aerosols and carbon dioxide pollution a long time ago. It has not.

Given where we are, would it be morally justified to argue for a slight increase in stratospheric pollution to offset the global warming caused by the decrease in tropospheric aerosol pollution?

We think so. Why accelerate global warming as the world cleans up regular (tropospheric) air pollution? This tradeoff provides a clear moral case for researching solar geoengineering, even though we do not think it is the only one. Much like the world should cut tropospheric aerosol pollution regardless—to save lives now—we believe the world must take solar geoengineering’s potential seriously, quite independently of the tradeoff between tropospheric and stratospheric aerosols.

The ratio of societal benefits of solar geoengineering to direct costs is so large—somewhere in the order of a thousand to one—that it puts solar geoengineering in the same league as some vaccinations. Unlike vaccinations, there is some real potential for risks imposed on those not wanting any solar geoengineering. That is why standard benefit-cost arguments are, in fact, not the right decision criteria.

The decision ought to be focused on risk-risk tradeoffs: risks of unchecked climate change compared to risks of doing solar geoengineering. Add to that the real costs of tropospheric aerosols, and the ideal policy sequence becomes clear: Cut both greenhouse gases that warm and tropospheric aerosols that cool the planet. In addition, explore solar geoengineering as a safer way to keep the total aerosol cooling effect constant as a bridge to a cleaner future.

[Jinsai]

For what it's worth, this is not unprecedented. Of all the things to make fun of him for, scheduling a press conference to announce a decision on something is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It's the nature and framing of the announcement that feels "like a fucking game show" more than anything else. Like when he had his Supreme Court nominee announcement... 8pm, Eastern Time, big announcement, stay tuned.

Maybe I missed this happening my whole life somehow? Like, was there a "5pm, Friday, Obama will say whether or not he'll close Guantanamo Bay!!! Stay Tuned!"

I don't remember these sorts of things with Bush even, besides photo ops like "Mission Accomplished!"

[baudolino]

Bannon is a fricking kamikaze pilot on pep.

[Swykk]

This embarrassing piece of shit is literally taking steps (backward) toward ruining the fucking planet. For personal financial gain.

[Louie_Cypher]

this bodes well for Putin who have already begun drilling in Siberia when Trump ends sanctions on Russia will people wake up to trumps end game i doubt it
-Louie

[Exocet]

Weak...the only people in your club are Syria and Nicuragua.....

When Hitler declared war on the US everyone thought he was insane...the US could easily defeat Germany in 1941.....but he GENUINELY thought your only ideology was the dollar....he thought the dollar came before anything else...

Makes you think

[allegro]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/climate/us-paris-accord-what-happens-next.html


"The Paris climate deal, which 195 countries agreed to in 2015, was designed to work through voluntary action and peer pressure. Because it was never ratified by the Senate, the United States will face few barriers to leaving.

The Trump administration plans to invoke the accord’s formal withdrawal mechanism, a winding legal process that will take four years to complete and would lead to an official exit on Nov. 4, 2020, the day after the next presidential election. A future administration could, if it chose, rejoin."

[allegro]

This isn't the first time a U.S. President dumped a global climate deal:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/time-us-president-dumped-global-climate-deal/story?id=47771005

[botley]

This isn't the first time a U.S. President dumped a global climate deal:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/time-us-president-dumped-global-climate-deal/story?id=47771005
True, but it's the first time anyone has done so while flying in the face of such overwhelming geopolitical consensus on this issue. Kyoto, like the Rio conference on climate change (http://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/bp317-e.htm#Change) five years before it (yes, that would be back in the days of Bush Sr., you young'ns) required all G7 nations to ratify their targets first, in order for it to become a binding agreement. Whereas the Republican voting bloc's argument through all those years was basically "hey India and China, why isn't it you guys who should go first". Well, now they are.

In the case of the Paris accord, the vast majority of countries worldwide have already committed to reducing emissions and are leaving the carbon-based economy behind on a voluntary basis. So Trump and his applauding seals have no fucking leg to stand on anymore, especially since this was essentially worded as a diplomatic commitment to American allies. By a slim majority, the American electorate of all political stripes (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/most-americans-support-staying-in-the-paris-agreement/528663/?utm_source=twb) supported staying in this agreement.

All Trump has done here is leave American businesses looking to join that enormous emerging global market for renewable clean energy generation (http://fs-unep-centre.org/sites/default/files/publications/globaltrendsinrenewableenergyinvestment2016lowres_ 0.pdf) (which will likely balloon in size very soon) stuck in the 20th century. The German model of heavy green tech manufacturing subsidized by government, especially in concert with Chinese investment (https://www.ft.com/content/585f1946-45e2-11e7-8519-9f94ee97d996) (paywalled link -- essentially the EU and China are announcing today that they "have agreed to co-operate on the deployment of electric cars, energy efficiency labelling and scientific research into green innovation"), will easily wipe out American competition. You will probably see America becoming more isolated from all other economies as a result (perhaps with the exception, as Louie_Cypher points out, of Russia's), and steadily more reliant on scarce local reserves for energy, which -- spoiler alert -- basically leaves America looking like Mad Max: Fury Road in about 25 years' time.

[Jinsai]

well, buckle up buckaroo

[Haysey_Draws]

This does make me wonder, how much fossil fuel is there remaining in the world for the oil tycoons of the world to drill for?
Nobody can deny it's an finite resource, but just how much longer can the oil rich businessmen suck on it...wouldn't it be funny to see the wells run dry while Trump is still around, and then immediately depressing :(

[Jinsai]

exiting the Paris climate accord was entirely a gesture.

It was "fuck you" to our allies in saving the world from imploding.

We could have stayed in, and changed nothing. There is no penalty for failing to meet your promised benchmark. The whole thing is a SYMBOLIC gesture that you want to save the world from a horrible death.

NOTHING. Not a single penny was saved by dropping out of it. All it did was say "fuck you."

[Kodiak33]

Jinsai YES

@botley (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=469) exactly, and well said. The other issue is (and the President's administration's amazing shortsightedness and stupidity) patents. When the foreign companies are fueled by innovation which can be sponsored by the government through all sorts of monetary breaks, they will patent the fuck out of everything, including in the US and leave those businesses behind.

This was good for business! As is all technology that will create jobs and money for companies here in the US. Just unbelievable stupidity.

[slave2thewage]

Trump has basically just fucked up your country's foreign relations for DECADES. Hope he enjoys China's rise to power.

[Louie_Cypher]

Trump has basically just fucked up your country's foreign relations for DECADES. Hope he enjoys China's rise to power. follow the money
-louie

[Louie_Cypher]

why did god hate the dinosaurs?
-louie

[allegro]

exiting the Paris climate accord was entirely a gesture.

It was "fuck you" to our allies in saving the world from imploding.

We could have stayed in, and changed nothing. There is no penalty for failing to meet your promised benchmark. The whole thing is a SYMBOLIC gesture that you want to save the world from a horrible death.

NOTHING. Not a single penny was saved by dropping out of it. All it did was say "fuck you."

Right, it will take FOUR YEAR to get out of the Paris agreement. And there's no penalty for fucking up while in it. But the majority of his dumb supporters don't know this. Trump spent nearly two years telling dinosaurs in coal country that he'll get their jobs back and save the U.S. lots of money by getting out of the Paris agreement. And now he's "gotten out" (in FOUR YEARS) and coal mines are already opening before he did it. With a few hundred jobs, which doesn't mean shit when other energy businesses are hiring thousands. But Trump will break his arm patting himself on the back and his voters will tighten their grip up Trump's ass. Because it's all a giant dumb circle jerk.

And liberals are clutching their pearls as if this will actually change anything. Exxon and other energy companies publicly put their support behind the Paris agreement. Innovation and alternative energy will continue. Coal's gonna die, it's too expensive to produce relative to everything else.

The agreement is still there, even if we aren't in it (4 years from now) and this country's efforts to be innovative and reduce carbon emissions won't change and violators were already paying off the government to break the rules.

Trump says he wants to get back into the Paris agreement if he can revise it in our favor. Odds are he will be too busy blowing smoke up his own ass to care. Kyoto, Paris ... TWENTY TWO Republicans fully support Trump's actions and a vote on Paris will never pass the Senate, THAT is where these idiots are right now. But even EXXON has moved on.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/energy/trump-removes-u-s-paris-accord-defying-exxon-energy-giants/

Even TILLERSON told Trump to stay in the accord. The absence of Jared and Ivanka in the Rose Garden yesterday was glaringly obvious, too. But Trump has Bannon's hand up his ass, like a ventriloquist act.


botley, it doesn't matter to those 22 Republicans who would vote against the accord; they only care about their butt-hurt unemployed coal miners who won't accept that they're like cobol programmers who need to find another career.

edit; what particularly bugs me and my husband (and I'm sure many others) is why the emphasis on coal isn't transferred to putting those coal miners to work in alternative energy plants built near them; train them, get them new and better careers. Look what happened to Pittsburgh; it was Steel City, but the steel business went to China and now Pittsburgh has reinvented itself (http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2013/10/13/30-Years-Pittsburgh-moves-from-heavy-industry-to-medicine-tech-energy/stories/201310130085) in a real-life version of "Who Moved My Cheese?" Which is exactly what DETROIT needs to do.

[Louie_Cypher]

tl dr rant, we can use word speak, such as jobs killer, freedom, left right, up down, over, under, the nearest, planet, that is possibly OK, for us to live on is a long ways away, truth is we're on a a spaceship, the check engine light is on leaking oil, and.
do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
-Louie

[allegro]

tl dr rant, we can use word speak, such as jobs killer, freedom, left right, up down, over, under, the nearest, planet, that is possibly OK, for us to live on is a long ways away, truth is we're on a a spaceship, the check engine light is on leaking oil, and.
do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
-Louie

Well, but the Earth isn't expected to die until the Sun goes red giant ... in about 5 billion years.

The problem with climate change isn't a problem for the Earth; it's a problem for various life forms on Earth. Earth isn't the hospitable place we like to think it is; it is a dynamic living thing that really doesn't give a shit what's trying to inhabit it; volcanoes, tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, etc., Earth is Earth doing its thang. Humans make the weather worse, Earth only knows that it needs to protect itself and will treat us like cockroaches. Do what thou wilst, indeed. Earth don't give a shit. It's survived ice ages, plate shifts, a giant meteor, all kinds of crazy shit.

[Louie_Cypher]

the universe is hostile so it is so it's always been
-Louie

[allegro]

See this:

Why U.S. businesses said "stay in the Paris accord" (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paris-climate-agreement-us-corporate-support/)


Mr. Trump's decision flew in the face of a vocal campaign by large companies to keep America in the agreement, and it sparked anger among some chief executives. "Climate change is real," Jeff Immelt, CEO of General Electric (GE), said in a tweet after the president's announcement. "Industry must now lead and not depend on government."

In the wake of Mr. Trump's speech, Elon Musk, head of electric-car maker Tesla (TSLA), resigned from the president's business advisory council. "Leaving Paris is not good for America or the world," he tweeted.Bob Iger, chief of Walt Disney (DIS), followed suit in quitting the council over the Paris move.

The hundreds of big companies that backed staying with the Paris accord run the full range of business sectors. They included retailers like Walmart (WMT), tech giants such as Apple (AAPL), automakers like General Motors (GM) and even the leading lights of the fossil fuel industry, notably Exxon Mobil (XOM).

Recently, 25 large corporations took out full-page ads in newspapers urging Mr. Trump to stick with the climate pact. "By expanding markets for innovative clean technologies, the agreement generates jobs and economic growth," it read.

And Darren Woods, CEO of Exxon, wrote a letter to the president arguing that staying in the agreement would ensure that "the United States will maintain a seat at the negotiating table." At the company's shareholder meeting Wednesday, he said, staying in was vital "to ensure a level playing field so that all energy sources and technologies are treated equitably."

"I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris," the president said. In Mr. Trump's estimation, the Paris plan would result in 2.7 million lost American jobs lost by 2025, which environmentalists deride as wrongheaded.

The American Sustainable Business Council, a group of mainly smaller companies, argues that plenty of jobs can be created without harming the environment. "The value of Paris to businesses is the clear market signal that the future is in lower carbon, rather than a chaotic and unsustainable future of business disruptions from rising seas and changing weather patterns," the group's CEO, David Levine, said in a statement. "Even U.S. presidents cannot turn back the clock on history."

And indeed, employment in energy producers other than coal is surging. According to the U.S. Department of Energy in a January report, solar has more than twice as many U.S. jobs than coal -- 374,000 versus 160,000.

Time was, of course, that Mr. Trump's stance was a widely held belief among American business leaders. They maintained that pollution reduction equaled job reduction. Things have changed as the public came to embrace many of environmentalists' tenets and started fearing man-made climate change.

In fairness, there's no reason to question Corporate America's sincerity about fighting climate change. Company leaders want a livable world as much as anyone else. But business' advocacy for the Paris pact shows that, for a variety of reasons, support for fighting greenhouse gases now is in their own best bottom-line interest, as well.

ONE BIG REASON WHY:


It helps gas producers and hurts coal. Exxon, for instance, is the nation's largest natural gas producer, and gas is displacing coal as the preferred power-generating fuel. Gas is cheaper to produce and cleaner. Benjamin Zycher, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, wrote that "because the U.S. has a lot of cheap natural gas -- a substantial part of which is produced by ExxonMobil -- [the company] will have a competitive advantage within the agreement."


Meanwhile, American businesses -- and the AFL-CIO -- have LOUDLY AND NEGATIVELY reacted to Trump's decision. (http://fortune.com/2017/06/01/paris-climate-agreement-business-leaders-react/)

[allegate]

What the fresh fuck is this.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/02/kellyanne-conway-trump-james-comey-testimony-239061?cmpid=sf

[Louie_Cypher]

he knows what he did last summer, this is he's mods op, covfefe, was just more distraction, on how awful his trip abroud was stay woke america
-Louie

[tony.parente]

Donald Trump is a fucking kindergarten Daffy Duck idiot.

"I believe that the movement against asbestos was led by the mob, because it was often mob-related companies that would do the asbestos removal. Great pressure was put on politicians, and as usual, the politicians relented. Millions of truckloads of this incredible fire-proofing material were taken to special "dump sites" and asbestos was replaced by materials that were supposedly safe but couldn't hold a candle to asbestos in limiting the ravages of fire."


The Art of the Comeback (1997), Donald Trump co-written by Kate Bohner, ISBN 978-0-8129-2964-5

[ninlive]

Hey all,

I'm sort of hijacking the thread from like 6 pages back. But I do get back on topic. I've been out of commission on here for a while. But I just thought I should have responded... What an idiot letting this go. I want to have intelligent discussions because it's important.


Just as a response / addition to your entire post (which I only clipped out for brevity's sake), here's one I've seen posted several times in the last couple months.


I want my friends to understand that "staying out of politics" or being "sick of politics" is privilege in action. Your privilege allows you to live a non-political existence. Your wealth, your race, your abilities or your gender allows you to live a life in which you likely will not be a target of bigotry, attacks, deportation, or genocide. You don't want to get political, you don't want to fight because your life and safety are not at stake.It is hard and exhausting to bring up issues of oppression (aka "get political").

The fighting is tiring. I get it. Self-care is essential. But if you find politics annoying and you just want everyone to be nice, please know that people are literally fighting for their lives and safety. You might not see it, but that's what privilege does

'
I understand exactly what you mean. As someone of relative privilege, it can be hard to take the next step and actively resist instead of just feeling helpless and feeling bad for everyone who is more directly affected by the dumpster fire that is American politics. I don't know what I can say to encourage you to take a more active stand against the things you disagree with. But unless we all speak up, nothing will change.

Mate,

I just wanted to respond to this, and have wanted to for the last few weeks. Really rude of me not to post on the thread for so long. But I'd rather not have my words misconstrued. I totally agree with that quote you posted. But, with me, the people that are around me that are not white, that are my friends or friends of friends, have lived a sheltered and privileged life. Many of them had their college tuition paid by their parents, didn't have to work while going to school. Me on the other hand, I worked a full time job, have tons of student loan debt etc. etc. I am not complaining. It's what I chose in order to better myself and have more opportunities. But, in my personal life, these are the people that complain and get on their soap box on social media and crucify me because I am not voicing my opinion and because I don't speak about them all the time. They are the ones, instead of volunteering to help those that are less fortunate, clean up abandoned city blocks here in Detroit, donate to relief funds, donate to the red cross, etc. (just naming examples of helping fellow man that I have done in any way I can contribute) these people are taking trips around the globe. I should point out that you should enjoy life, but when you just want to talk about it, instead of being about it. It's two different things. But yet, they are so sick of all the things that Trump is doing, but they aren't ACTIVELY doing anything about it. This is what confuses me. Again, only when it's convenient for them. Is this how a lot of the people are in America? I don't know, and I would sure not want that to be the case. But just from my normal interactions in life. It's what I can base everything off of.

I feel that I am fairly educated. I don't sit with the dems, but don't sit with the republicans either. I know that this sounds crazy and a very PC response. But I like to gather all the information I can and base my opinion off of what I know. The people I know have privileges in others ways, just like me, but they want to be the targeted audience, only when it's convenient for them. I guess I don't see a lot of this "fight" because of where I am located. I get that. I am not putting my head in the sand about the things going on in the world. I know that there are people out there that are literally fighting day in and day out and I feel for those people. I am a very compassionate person and very selfless. I am happy I have those traits, as a man. I don't feel that people in the states are having to physically "fight" every day. A lot of it is just making it known that you are fed up. I don't think that our local governments are going to sit down and let Trump take us back 200 years of progress and they will fight for the people of this country. I would personally not stand for it as well and I'd be willing to fight for my fellow man, if that ever did come about. But I sure hope it would never get to that point. I also don't find politics annoying, I just wish I understood them better (which I am learning every day) and wish that the government was more transparent. I know, that's a laugh. But it's frustrating to know a lot of the decisions that are made is behind the scenes. Stuff that the public doesn't have access to.

After the Paris Agreement pullout, we have seen a lot of local government officials come out and say they will still adhere to it. I think this is GREAT. Showing that people know right from wrong and it is absolutely ass backwards to think that with all the technology we have nowadays, and science (WITH YEARS OF EVIDENCE/DATA) we, as one of the strongest nations, don't want to be at the forefront of helping sustain this planet. An absolute joke.

Again another long winded post. I keep up with this thread just to hear other voices. Take my talkings with a grain of salt. I hope my post doesn't make me sound like a terrible person. I am just trying to understand and maybe my views will get lost in translation how I am trying to explain things. I would love to elaborate if my incoherent ramblings sounds confusing. I guess carry on with the topic, cause I just hijacked it again. :confused:

[kel]

i love kathy griffin. and i think the image was provocative and smart. the hypocrisy is fucking thick. no need to offer up counter examples, the proof is there. we've all seen the "obama" lynching pictures, ted nugent's thinly-veiled threats. i feel terrible for her in this career destroying backlash. the fbi trials start next week, this is a perfect distraction -- see how unhinged the left is? she should be in jail! let's focus on a 56-year-old female comic who's job it is to push buttons!

also, i'm really disappointed in anderson cooper for not sticking up for his friend.

[elevenism]

One thing that gets me is Trump saying he wants to protect "Pittsburgh, not Paris" or whatever the fuck he said.

This is Trump banking on uninformed folk thinking that the Paris Agreement is something intended to specifically help France.

And shit like this works. W. had like half the fucking country thinking that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 because they couldn't differentiate between Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden.
That was no accident and neither was Trump's statement imho. I feel like they carefully craft this shit.

[allegro]

kel, wait a few months and the morons will forget they were mad at Kathy Griffin. It was a horrifying image to me, ala ISIS, so I'm sure the graphic nature is why it's so serious; it's actually illegal. But the abuse she's suffering from the Trump family and friends is like a lynching. I'm just bummed I won't see on CNN for NY Eve, anymore.

[Jinsai]

Kathy Griffin fucked up. The image was genuinely disturbing and realistically gory in a way that even gave me pause, and I watch some fucked up horror movies.

Still, is this the best way we can gauge the visible popularity of Marilyn Manson in 2017? He makes a video where he's ripping up bibles, playing around in the blood of a decapitated corpse that's obviously supposed to be Don... singing the lyric "You say god, I say SAY TEN! SATAN!" over and over again.

And nobody gives a shit.

I'm sure there's a guy in Hollywood right now, staring at his coke-mirror reflection and saying "really, Kathy Griffin is edgier than me?"

[hellospaceboy]

Kathy Griffin fucked up. The image was genuinely disturbing and realistically gory in a way that even gave me pause, and I watch some fucked up horror movies.

Still, is this the best way we can gauge the visible popularity of Marilyn Manson in 2017? He makes a video where he's ripping up bibles, playing around in the blood of a decapitated corpse that's obviously supposed to be Don... singing the lyric "You say god, I say SAY TEN! SATAN!" over and over again.

And nobody gives a shit.

I'm sure there's a guy in Hollywood right now, staring at his coke-mirror reflection and saying "really, Kathy Griffin is edgier than me?"

I think Kathy Griffin's real fuck up was her news conference where she cried about the Trumps destroying her career. In this internet age, scandals last maybe 2-3 weeks. If she just laid low it would all blow over and she'd be back on her feet in no time. Her career is not over. (although I understand why she would feel like it is)

Side note: her photo shoot was over the line, but it happens. Comedians have to constantly push the edge of acceptable, and they will cross the line from time to time. It's an occupational hazard.

[baudolino]

a well played empty puppet, usually by a couple of players, is mightier than a single sane man. an ancient scheme. see the history of egypt, china, india, the vatican etc....

the best way to defeat it is to sever its strings ;)

[allegro]

I think Kathy Griffin's real fuck up was her news conference where she cried about the Trumps destroying her career. In this internet age, scandals last maybe 2-3 weeks. If she just laid low it would all blow over and she'd be back on her feet in no time. Her career is not over. (although I understand why she would feel like it is)

Side note: her photo shoot was over the line, but it happens. Comedians have to constantly push the edge of acceptable, and they will cross the line from time to time. It's an occupational hazard.

She wanted to parody Trump's Megan Kelly remark; she wanted to get a reaction. It's protest art. I understand that, but then you have to be able to stand up to the shit when you actually RECEIVE a reaction you desired. Lenny Bruce went to jail. And didn't apologize.

What bugs me about Trump is how he does shit and gets away with it, but others don't. Billy Bush is STILL unemployed and begging for work. Trump became President.

[kel]

but the secret service, the fucking SECRET SERVICE is wasting time investigating kathy fucking griffin over a picture with a dollar store mask and red corn syrup. christ.

[baudolino]

but the secret service, the fucking SECRET SERVICE is wasting time investigating kathy fucking griffin over a picture with a dollar store mask and red corn syrup. christ.

not surprising when you consider the SS' command chain

[hellospaceboy]

but the secret service, the fucking SECRET SERVICE is wasting time investigating kathy fucking griffin over a picture with a dollar store mask and red corn syrup. christ.

To be fair, they have to investigate shit like this, they check out facebook posts and all kinds of "threats" that don't seem serious

[allegro]

To be fair, they have to investigate shit like this, they check out facebook posts and all kinds of "threats" that don't seem serious

Yup. My friend's husband told his therapist that he wanted to kill Reagan; he was a total left-wing Trotsky fan and was also bipolar and hadn't taken his meds and was riled up. He finally took his meds, fell asleep at home near his wife and kids, and the Secret Service showed up at the front door; my friend said "he's sleeping, not likely to go kill a President." The SS laughed and left. But all were obligated to take it seriously.

An "investigation" into Griffin was likely already conducted and concluded.

[kel]

she put it perfectly: "mocking the mocker-in-chief."

i wish i could buy tickets to every show that hasn't been cancelled because of this bs.

[Louie_Cypher]

Yup. My friend's husband told his therapist that he wanted to kill Reagan; he was a total left-wing Trotsky fan and was also bipolar and hadn't taken his meds and was riled up. He finally took his meds, fell asleep at home near his wife and kids, and the Secret Service showed up at the front door; my friend said "he's sleeping, not likely to go kill a President." The SS laughed and left. But all were obligated to take it seriously.

An "investigation" into Griffin was likely already conducted and concluded. one of the many things that bugs me is the hypocrisy of the right how many times did ted Nugent threaten to shoot or hurt the president of course what are they going to do ban him from playing the state fair, no he was invited to the white house, remember the outrage when when Common went becuase he was a rapper thug and supported a"cop killer" or picture him being lynched, he has kids too there is a great debate of john Stewart and BillO'rilley on the subject fuck the GOP TRUMP and all the holier then thou shitheads
-Louie

[Jinsai]

What bugs me about Trump is how he does shit and gets away with it, but others don't. Billy Bush is STILL unemployed and begging for work. Trump became President.

This is the killer for me. I didn't see myself ever going out of my way to stand up for Billy Bush, and I'm not really because fuck him, but at least he had the human decency to say that he was ashamed, and that he had to beg his daughter for forgiveness for his failure as a human being.

The problem with Trump is that he's the ultimate trust fund baby avalanching snowball that has yet to hit an embankment hard enough to shatter. His life is built around privilege. He's engineered a gaudy opulent empire that revolves arounds self-glorification. He's got a small army of lawyers sweeping away all the insanity left in his daily wake. He's run this pampered incompetent routine his whole life, and it's carried him through several bankruptcies and scandals to arrive as the president of the United States.

The saddest part is that Trump would have lost to a man. Any man. Instead, because he was competing with a woman, his flagrant misogyny ended up being twistable into an appealing selling-point to the shittiest of American bigots, and it became a non-point for "moderates" and party-line voters.

This meteoric snowballing avalanche can't keep going. It's going to crash and crash in a way so spectacular we're all going to be dizzy, saying "oh my god, what the fuck, how did we get here and what's going on?"

[allegro]

Jinsai - Except he won out over a shitload of Republicans in the Primary; even over the establishment-backed Jeb Bush, and over Kasich who's done a great job as Governor of Ohio. Trump won the Primary the same way he won the General election: Bullying, lying, shaming, dirty tricks, and using his Billionaire TV Star status to push the Cult of Personality to the limit, in the land of the Wealth-Worshippers who love people who love attention. He ALSO sold that "I'm not a politician, I'm just like you, let's re-boot Washington thing."

He has zero class, zero integrity, zero empathy, and he thinks he's never wrong; he's a pathological liar and a narcissist who only cared about winning, at any cost.

I agree that this is all going to crash, though. We are watching historic levels of crazy politics.

[baudolino]

but is he really in charge? i don't know. that's for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jinsai]

@Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) - Except he won out over a shitload of Republicans in the Primary; even over the establishment-backed Jeb Bush, and over Kasich who's done a great job as Governor of Ohio. Trump won the Primary the same way he won the General election: Bullying, lying, shaming, dirty tricks, and using his Billionaire TV Star status to push the Cult of Personality to the limit, in the land of the Wealth-Worshippers who love people who love attention. He ALSO sold that "I'm not a politician, I'm just like you, let's re-boot Washington thing."

All that, and the fact that a metric-fuck-ton of republican-for-life voters went to the ballot to say "I don't like Hillary Clinton for [insert] reason." That rationale no longer applies.

That, and the people who thought he'd wise up and drop the clown act if he actually won... he's lost those people.

This ends in 20/20, at the latest... hey, look, it's like hindsight when you type it.
This has been a silent endless nightmare for at least 10 percent of voters that are scared to admit they fucked up and voted for Trump. The "silent Trump" voters are now harboring this lurking shame, knowing that at some cocktail party, they might have too many glasses of wine, and admit "I did it, I don't know why, but I voted for Trump.... LOOK, I'm sorry! I went to a rally.... it was funny.... things got out of hand..." and this is the sort of rationalization inner monologue they carry on in their heads while chatting with their sensible friends.

There's people all around you, who want to "out" themselves. It's been haunting them. They voted for Trump, and they regret it. They REALLY fucking regret it.

But society is pretty unforgiving right now for the dumbfucks who voted for Trump in large, so they feel embarrassed... ashamed... maybe scared, that they'll lose a job or circle of friends over their mistake. They can't have an honest political conversation right now with liberals or moderates who ran from this insanity. That's not a role I'd want to sit in... trying to explain why you voted for Donald Trump, and now regret it?

If someone tells you that they voted for Trump and they're sorry they did, just give them a fucking hug, and mean it.

[Louie_Cypher]

This is the killer for me. I didn't see myself ever going out of my way to stand up for Billy Bush, and I'm not really because fuck him, but at least he had the human decency to say that he was ashamed, and that he had to beg his daughter for forgiveness for his failure as a human being.

The problem with Trump is that he's the ultimate trust fund baby avalanching snowball that has yet to hit an embankment hard enough to shatter. His life is built around privilege. He's engineered a gaudy opulent empire that revolves arounds self-glorification. He's got a small army of lawyers sweeping away all the insanity left in his daily wake. He's run this pampered incompetent routine his whole life, and it's carried him through several bankruptcies and scandals to arrive as the president of the United States.

The saddest part is that Trump would have lost to a man. Any man. Instead, because he was competing with a woman, his flagrant misogyny ended up being twistable into an appealing selling-point to the shittiest of American bigots, and it became a non-point for "moderates" and party-line voters.

This meteoric snowballing avalanche can't keep going. It's going to crash and crash in a way so spectacular we're all going to be dizzy, saying "oh my god, what the fuck, how did we get here and what's going on?"it's a little deeper than that he' keyed off on the growing anger of the middle class and the constant fear that fox, spews, and "the others" that are doing this to the rest of us, Putin this and felt it was time, Trump was the perfect stooge, not so smart able to use financial and other leverage, at the correspondence dinner Trump was belittled humiliated and made a laughing stock, including Obama,"there's one thing you"ll never be, President", i believe this is when he was approached and asked if he wanted to get even, rode along with foxes narrative on hate and anger
this is only my opinion,I also believe he was and is being coached
sorry for the long winded rant
-Louie

[Jinsai]

Um.... did you forget about this?




So are the rules basically: we can only talk about why Trump won if it's critical of republicans?


lol fuck that.

I'm not saying "this is why Trump won," I'm saying "this is why America lost." Having someone tell me "Here's why Trump won, y'all coastal elites don't get the rust belt" isn't helpful, mainly because I DO get the rust belt, and it's not hard to get, which is why Trump got it too. That sort of "lesson" doesn't help fix what went wrong here.

[Louie_Cypher]

again everyone was laughing until they stopped, again you have things like fox and Hanity, spouting things like wealth re-disputation which is fear thinking, " some black guy is going to come in the middle of the night raid your refrigerator eat all thier deli bought cold cuts dirink their top shelve liquor and screw their wives, rap culture has done nothing to change this but very rarely do is see a top CEO of color in the software industry or anywhere else is there white privilege yes there is I have never been denied a ride an apartment, followed around a store, or anything else here's a scary fact if your of color your a 10x's more likely to be arrested not questioned but hauled in on suspicion of drug possession, fact
-Louie

[allegro]

Well, if no longer having any Republican friends is "bad," G and I are now the baddest of the bad. We are usually pretty tolerant but we have decided that we have far too little time left on this planet (we're getting old) to bother with them, anymore. This isn't "pro-liberal" or "pro-Democrat" - it's zero tolerance for stupid. Not even gonna try. Maybe it's just a Midwest thing, but EVERY Republican we know thinks Obama "ruined this country" or "was the worst President in history" or "started racism." They're just racist, even if they're too stupid to realize it. There is ZERO logical evidence supporting those claims.

We visited a former coworker of mine, K, and their dog's stuffed monkey toy is named "Obama" and they laugh "hahaha." K's husband (a retired Chicago cop) had a heart attack and the EMS arrived and the EMS workers were all black; K said she had to run to remove the framed photo of Obama with Hitler, "hahaha" - meanwhile, those trained porch monkeys saved her husband's life.

And her Facebook page is filled with posts about the Pope, Jesus, the Catholic Church, being Irish, and share this if you love your grandchildren shit.

It's hard, because this woman has been like family for nearly 30 years. But it's too hard to overlook and I'm not gonna even try to change her views or tell her otherwise; useless. So I'm ghosting her.

[Swykk]

I was just going to say I don't have any right wing friends either, nor would I ever be able to date someone with such terrible views. Not to mention the utter stupidity involved (good call on that, allegro).

[Jinsai]

Well, if no longer having any Republican friends is "bad," G and I are now the baddest of the bad. We are usually pretty tolerant but we have decided that we have far too little time left on this planet (we're getting old) to bother with them, anymore. This isn't "pro-liberal" or "pro-Democrat" - it's zero tolerance for stupid. Not even gonna try. Maybe it's just a Midwest thing, but EVERY Republican we know thinks Obama "ruined this country" or "was the worst President in history" or "started racism." It's just racism, period. There is ZERO logical evidence supporting those claims.

We visited a former coworker of mine, K, and their dog's stuffed monkey toy is named "Obama" and they laugh "hahaha." K's husband (a retired Chicago cop) had a heart attack and the EMS arrived and the EMS workers were all black; K said she had to run to remove the framed photo of Obama with Hitler, "hahaha" - meanwhile, those trained porch monkeys saved her husband's life.

And her Facebook page is filled with posts about the Pope, Jesus, the Catholic Church, being Irish, and share this if you love your grandchildren shit.

It's hard, because this woman has been like family for nearly 30 years. But it's too hard to overlook and I'm not gonna even try to change her views or tell her otherwise; useless. So I'm ghosting her.

That's the thing about this "you guys don't get why Trump won, see, cuz you don't understand the people who voted for him." I have heard a lot of variations on the "here's why he won" lecture, but that one is just wildly ignorant. It supposes that there's this shielded environment that we liberals exist in that never interacts with "the other side" of America.

We coastal elites travel around and we work. We have the internet - we hear you talk. We watch and read the news and don't limit ourselves to Huffington Post.

We're aware that there's a lot of people out there who get the news from Trump's twitter feed, Fox, and Breitbart exclusively. We know what info wars is. We know what REAL fake news is.

We're not jumping at shadows and calling everything racist. We know what you really mean when you say #AllLivesMatter, and we heard you say it. We saw Richard Spencer lead a crowd of white supremacists to "hail Trump, hail our people" after the election.

A lot of us went to college, and we know they aren't recruitment camps for leftist socialist extremism, and we know why you accuse our higher education institutions of being that.

We know you're sick of the vague concept of Washington elites, and we also understand why you were duped into voting for a clown who should have the word "elite" tattooed on his fucking forehead.

...and we know that a lot of his ardent supporters, who cheerfully adopted the tag "deplorable" as a mark of honor, are misogynists. And, sure, there's a bunch of female voters in the Trump camp who come from the Phyllis Schlafly school of feminism. You don't have to look very hard to find them...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y_1GDrt8_V0/maxresdefault.jpg

At this point, I'm sick of that lecture, because the person giving that lecture is almost always so willfully ignorant of their own hypocrisy regarding "staying informed" that it locks them into knee-jerk rejection of a counter argument. Hearing a Trump supporter lecture me about "see, this is why Trump won and you just don't get it," is like having a drunk tell you "see, this is why you don't understand why your friend was killed by a drunk driver... you're out of touch with alcoholics."

We understand these people, we are aware of them. We "get where they're coming from."
At this point, the only republicans that I am "friends" with are related by blood.

[allegro]

I have a few caveats to the "No Republicans" rule: My half-brother is pro-choice with gay friends but he's a 2nd Amendment gun hobbyist (he voted for Kasich); and my Boss is a racist Republican Jew so he's a weird anomaly (his wife is totally left-wing civil rights Femocrat) and my Boss HATES Trump. I can't get rid of these two.

[Swykk]

Oh, I interact with people at work who obviously lean right and I keep it professional but those people would never be friends of mine. My grandparents are trademark hypochristians who I only have to interact with during holidays and of course, there are arguments.
Unfortunately, you can't cut right wingers out of life entirely but I can keep them at a distance. I don't have the sympathy @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) speaks of. I wish I did but they are the reason we're so fucked, the fucked up news keeps rolling in daily, and I can't forgive them. At least not yet. Maybe I'll get there. I'm pretty quick to forgive (though not so much forget) as long as apologies are made/regret is expressed. To be continued, I guess.

[Jinsai]

I have a few caveats to the "No Republicans" rule: My half-brother is pro-choice with gay friends but he's a 2nd Amendment gun hobbyist (he voted for Kasich); and my Boss is a racist Republican Jew so he's a weird anomaly (his wife is totally left-wing civil rights Femocrat) and my Boss HATES Trump. I can't get rid of these two.

The gun nut appeal... forgot to mention that one. My brother is a libertarian who LOVES guns. They are his favorite thing. Guns and cars... so he's kind of an anti-environmentalist too, because he thinks these emissions regulations are neutering his other favorite hobby. He's not a stupid person, but he is kind of an asshole, and he's definitely an asshole if you try to suggest anything regarding gun control.

I guess he also likes money, and so he wants his taxes to go down.

That is it. Full stop. He does not care about anything else. So he supports the Republican agenda. He's on their team. He wants them to "win," because that means nobody's going to try to take his guns, raise his taxes, or impose new environmental regulations that detract from his hobbies.

So he was anti-Trump at first, because he thought that Trump was the only candidate who could lose to Hillary.
On election night, he posted on Facebook "DO YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES!!!?!?!"

It is mind-numbing and frustrating as fuck to hear Trump's fans ironically tell me I don't understand why he won. With regards to the things that Trump means now that he's impossibly actually become president... he's a political wet-dream to a lot of the fair weather fans in the GOP base. They're applauding and saying "pinch me, I must be dreaming."

[Louie_Cypher]

fuck I think veiled racism is some of the worst, playing base as a short white boy in an all black Reggae (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03wA_pMA3SQ) band, was a real eye opener, did so of the guy have dreadlocks, yes, but we were straight edge for the most part, but the stereo-types projected and the names I was personally called. were insane
-Louie

[Sarah K]

@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) have you seen this? Trump wants to privatize air traffic controllers? I would be interested to hear what your husband thinks!

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/336315-trump-to-announce-plan-to-privatize-air-traffic-control-reports

[allegro]

@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) have you seen this? Trump wants to privatize air traffic controllers? I would be interested to hear what your husband thinks!

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/336315-trump-to-announce-plan-to-privatize-air-traffic-control-reports

Yeah, Rep Shuster from PA has been pushing this for years and it keeps getting pushed away or ignored by the House; it's actually his brainchild, not Trump's, but Shuster has been bending Trump's ear. Shyster is a total asshole whose gf has been named to the proposed private ATC board. And the current NATCA (ATC Union) President and Vice President approved privatization, met with Shuster, without asking the rank and file, most of whom are totally against it (and the others are too scared to bitch or are confused). There are monetary kickbacks suspected to those who are pushing it. It's not likely to pass because most of Congress hates it.

Shuster's plan gives literally billions of dollars of taxpayer-paid air traffic control facilities and equipment to a board of private corporations, and puts air security in the hands of that private board. Anybody who saw what ATCs had to handle on Sept 11 (including coordinating with government fighter jets) understands that putting this under private control means more fees to passengers to pay for it and far less safety. It's worth noting that Canada's system is private (NAV Canada) and they had to file for Bankruptcy protection in 2003. And they have way way way less air traffic than us.

The whole reason why NextGen has taken so long to implement is because REPUBLICANS in Congress keep cutting the FAA budget. Then they whine that NextGen is taking too long.

Trump BACKING this might be a good thing; everything he touches turns to shit.

The NATCA President told controllers, "it's better to be at the table than on the table," but the union brass only cares about themselves and keeping their cushy jobs where they don't have to work any planes. Meanwhile, privatization has been an issue since the 80s. Shuster thinks he's so smart, yawn.

I love this comment on the above link:

"Yeah, because what could possibly go wrong with having air traffic control being controlled by the same people that came up with airlines overbooking and passenger removal policies!"

(My husband has been a Supervisor at a tower facility for over a year, and has mandatory retirement coming up in under 4 months; July marks his 35th year with the FAA.)

[Haysey_Draws]

OK, firstly, after him using the London Bridge attack to further his Ban...fuck off you fucking hateful cunt!

Second, it feels to me that he has very few real friends. His wife clearly isn't fond of him and i doubt he'll be winning any father of the year awards. Point is when it all starts to fall apart, and it will eventually, all his "friends" around him in the WH will be lining up to stab him in the back to further their own careers. It'll be a complete cluster fuck, but i will enjoy seeing him get picked apart by his own kind. Fuck him.

[Kodiak33]

allegro that must be a super stressful job that your hubby has...

[Dra508]

(My husband has been a Supervisor at a tower facility for over a year, and has mandatory retirement coming up in under 4 months; July marks his 35th year with the FAA.)Retirement can't come soon enough eh?

[botley]

NSA report confirms: "Russian government hackers[...] focused on parts of the [American electoral] system directly connected to the voter registration process (https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-details-russian-hacking-effort-days-before-2016-election/)". A successful attack would make it harder for people to vote, at the attacker's discretion, or even alter votes via malicious interception of the counting machines. It's looking more and more likely to me that either one or both of these things got Trump into office.

[Jinsai]

Where's Glenn Greenwald on this one...

[botley]

And what a great job he did too, protecting their anonymous source — likely the hapless young woman immediately arrested by the FBI.

[allegro]

it's that arrogance / elitism ...

It's neither; this election caused more polarization than I've ever witnessed or experienced in the nearly 40 years I've been voting. The last nearly 20 years of a polarized Congress that refuses to even consider negotiating has led to this, and Trump was the final straw. These Republicans keep citing Reagan but even Reagan was a negotiater. He's rolling in his grave.

Look at these comments by Paul Ryan:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-ryan-says-he-doesnt-want-to-negotiate-with-democrats-on-health-care/

[allegro]

no matter how you rationalize it, you are still justifying non association with people over nothing more than a political party. And you are ok with people who are PROUD of this exclusion to the point they will cheer political speakers for expressing this pride.

Yeah welcome to the 60s.

Things were hostile then, and it's getting even worse, now. "Us" vs. "them" with no possible reconciliation.

[Jinsai]

... oh he's just off somewhere being the co-founder and editor of the news org who broke the story. It's The Intercept dude.

Wait... dude... did you think I was bringing him up NOT KNOWING THAT?

[Jinsai]

Welp. If you all are super fine with people who speak for your political party proudly proclaiming they have no friends of the opposing party, it's that arrogance that will continue to harm you. You'll continue to create people who want nothing more than to punish you for your own elitism. It's exactly the rant Michael Moore went on before the election.

Thanks for that wisdom, my libertarian guru fountain of horse shit.

[Jinsai]

Being a whistle blower is a dangerous game.

In this case, I dunno... did the public need to know it now?

Probabaly not... but it's still fucking fascinating.

[botley]

Man. Fuck the intercept for multiple reasons. That's disappointing.

I'm curious what the Russians were going after these "voter rolls" for. Especially mere days before the election. Would it be to break voter registration for certain people, preventing them from casting a vote? I'm confused as to what impact could be achieved if the phishing were successful.
Aaaaand finally the penny drops.

Don't you think this was combined with a massive operation to find groups of likely Clinton voters via their online presence, and fuck with their Election Day process?

[allegro]

Re: The Intercept: Yes, sloppy. Wikileaks has been just as sloppy.

Re: Winner: Deliberate civil and legal disobedience as protest and to spark investigation to see what NSA knows. (Also, why are they still using fucking dot matrix printers?)

Re: Russia info in leak: I read it as if Russia was closely monitoring voter data relative to the Electoral College and not the popular vote; the article says they were focusing on certain states and voter data (as well as strategies?); the Russians know how our Electoral College system works.

Russia tampering with Electoral College votes makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than Trump's winning the EC vote, because I STILL can't believe this stupid fuck is President.

[Jinsai]

I was just watching the Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life," and I feel like I just got punched in the gut...

It's like Rod Serling saw this coming.

[Art Vandelay]

Re: The Intercept: Yes, sloppy. Wikileaks has been just as sloppy.

Re: Winner: Deliberate civil and legal disobedience as protest and to spark investigation to see what NSA knows. (Also, why are they still using fucking dot matrix printers?)

Re: Russia info in leak: I read it as if Russia was closely monitoring voter data relative to the Electoral College and not the popular vote; the article says they were focusing on certain states and voter data (as well as strategies?); the Russians know how our Electoral College system works.

Russia tampering with Electoral College votes makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than Trump's winning the EC vote, because I STILL can't believe this stupid fuck is President.

I agree with everything you said, the only reason I quoted you was because I was laughing at your member stats specifically Location: Covfefe. Allow me to reiterate " I STILL can't believe this stupid fuck is president" as well. Every day I am embarrassed by this tweeting narcissistic outhouse of a man baby, that says the stupidest shit that is unimaginable, and it makes me feel like I need to apologize to every country in the world for the actions and words that come out of this fucking idiots mouth, even though I didn't vote for this fucking moron.

[allegro]

Oh the printout contained secret microdots, it was not dot matrix.

1) I did that in the 70s (microdot)

2) Teeny undetected identity dots on printouts: That's creepy and really cool.

[allegro]

Those Trump sons should stfu; they are really fucking arrogant and ignorant.

[allegro]

"Reality Winner" outing info re the Russians attempt at interfering with a Presidential election with a Reality Show guy.

It just doesn't get any better.

This is interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/05/reality-winner-russia-us-election-hack-nsa-leak

Reality Winner speaks Farsi, Pashto and and Dari.

The other Reality Winner that comes to mind: LOL LOL LOL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Rancic)

[allegro]

More on the microdots. I remember when it was a big thing back in 2005 when EFF deciphered some of the codes. It sucks that it seem to have not received as much as attention as I thought it did. It started as an anti-forgery mechanism. Gotta keep our money safe!

The next time you try to print a black & white doc and your printer is all "but i cant print ANYTHING because the color cartridge is empty!"
OH MY GOD that fucking happens all the time, it's why I only use my laser printers (I have three printers on the network); the only time I print off the color inkjet is if the fax prints out a report from that printer or if I print photos.

[allegro]

re Electoral College: I have no friggin' idea. I think over the next two years (that's how long I think this is going to take), we are bound to find out more dizzying info than we ever dreamed possible.

[Jinsai]

Why does it seem like every outlet is jumping ahead on this story to focus on the whistle blower? Nobody seems to be covering the content that she leaked, or the implications of what it suggests.

[Art Vandelay]

Those Trump sons should stfu; they are really fucking arrogant and ignorant.

You mean Uday & Qusay?

[allegro]

Why does it seem like every outlet is jumping ahead on this story to focus on the whistle blower? Nobody seems to be covering the content that she leaked, or the implications of what it suggests.

I was wondering the same thing!! She's cute, she's smart, she's interesting, that's all I can figure. If this was some homely kid in his underpants at home, he wouldn't be the focus.

[allegro]

You mean Uday & Qusay?

Every time I see them, for some reason I keep thinking about these guys from when I was a kid, my cousin LOVED them, they were on TV all the time:

The Trump boys are totally Homer and Jethro:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0mGFjAySTw

[Art Vandelay]

Every time I see them, for some reason I keep thinking about these guys from when I was a kid, my cousin LOVED them, they were on TV all the time:

The Trump boys are totally Homer and Jethro:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0mGFjAySTw

I was using the names of Saddam Hussein's sons because Trump is showing all the signs of being a dictator, but I have always hated the Trump sons simply because they go to Africa and shoot lions. Even if it was somebody I really admired and loved as an artist or a musician if they kill a lion I fucking hate them. If Jimmy Page shot a lion I'd fucking hate him.

Now take two morons (spoiled rich kids of asshole) and they shoot lions I REALLY FUCKING HATE THEM.

[Jinsai]

and now the NYTimes is reporting that Donald Trump has decided that Jeff Sessions is a bad man, a very bad man, and he thinks bad thoughts about him. Wonder if Donald will try to send him to the cornfield...

[allegate]

did you see how they found her? It was her own fault. Horrible OpSec.

She printed out the documents at her work. Only 6 people at her work did this so it wasn't hard to narrow it down. Worse, she fucking emailed the news org on her work computer.

It's surreal that her name is "Reality Winner" ... wtf
There's something to be said for Reality Winner and a reality TV star in the White House.

I don't know what it is, but there's something I'm sure.

[Jinsai]

Wait... WHAT THE FUCK!?

In 2014, Donald Trump ACTUALLY did tweet: "Sadly, because president Obama has done such a poor job as president, you won't see another black president for generations!"

I overheard someone once claiming that he wrote that, and I immediately thought that the person had been duped by some spoofed image that was probably being shared around online. I just saw someone post it, and so I thought "I'm going to disprove this, because spreading misinformation is a bad thing..."

and holy shit... he actually said it.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/537157586316165120

[thevoid99]

All this shit on him using Twitter and such just makes me look and feel stupid.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/97/5c/59/975c59692943cb30e51f293bf087a528.jpg

[allegro]

More on the Trump / Shyster plan to privatize U.S. Air Traffic Control (and why it's stupid):

http://theweek.com/articles/703443/how-conservatives-broke-air-traffic-control

[allegate]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-may-rights-idUSKBN18X2JA

I always thought V for Vendetta was satire/alt-future. Guess Alan Moore just got the years wrong.

Also this is hilarious:

https://twitter.com/ALT_uscis/status/872184567221821440

[Louie_Cypher]

I agree with everything you said, the only reason I quoted you was because I was laughing at your member stats specifically Location: Covfefe. Allow me to reiterate " I STILL can't believe this stupid fuck is president" as well. Every day I am embarrassed by this tweeting narcissistic outhouse of a man baby, that says the stupidest shit that is unimaginable, and it makes me feel like I need to apologize to every country in the world for the actions and words that come out of this fucking idiots mouth, even though I didn't vote for this fucking moron. had to go out of the country for work when asked I no longer say American I now say Californian
-Louie

[Exocet]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-may-rights-idUSKBN18X2JA

I always thought V for Vendetta was satire/alt-future.


Do you know what the dictators do to extremists in Middle Eastern countries like Egypt, Uzbekistan, Iran etc.. They attach roads with electric currents to their balls and chop of their fingers and boil them alive.

I doubt Theresa is going to go that far...her Orwellian police state is coming up short..be interested to see what she can do.
anything to stop people getting their throats slit in central London makes me happy right now tbh.

[Jinsai]

OH YOU MEAN LIKE HOW EVERYONE WAS ALL "BUT RUSSIA" WHEN THE DNC/HILLARY LEAKS HAPPENED??? :D

This has been how EVERY whistleblower narrative has unfolded since forever, unless they are anonymous. Snowden has been the only moderate exception because he (and Greenwald) expected it and jumped ahead of it all. It's usually to detract from the leak and focus on the intent of the leaker.

With REALITY WINNER... i mean her name is just a little bit abnormal. It makes you stop and wonder if maybe all this shit is some coma induced dream and this name was planted by someone signaling you to wake up, especially with how everything else has been going lately.

FYI - Her real name is Sara. She changed it. I'm not sure what kind of person chooses the name "Reality" for themselves though. Also, her social media footprint is an absolute nightmare. I honestly don't know how she got this job back in Feb if they even slightly vetted her. She hates Trump so much. The right is already cataloging it all: http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=56840 ... "being white is terrorism" ... lmao.

Who she is and her intent are certainly worthy of coverage. As is how she got caught. But people use it to detract from the pure content of the leak itself. It happens in every leak, sadly.

It's a diversion tactic though, and I don't understand how they could see it working in 2017. Everything goes... full circle now. You can say "look, squirrel!!" and make people look the wrong way for a moment, but eventually they look back. It's a good tactic to employ with strategic timing when there's a deadline ahead... like, say, an election...

Speaking of that, I'm wondering if the Clinton email scandal really caused the last-minute dip in her polls, or if something here is pointing towards that being a diversionary smoke screen explanation. As in, "the people are going to be completely perplexed and suspicious if there's not some donkey to pin the tail on here, so let's drum up some non-story to assign as the rationale for her 11th hour tumble."

Regarding whistle blowers... I don't think Deep Throat would have been the decoy if his name was disclosed. The press added some spin of a mystery thriller there, but they didn't go on to talk about THAT more than the related scandal.

Even the New York Times' coverage of this presents the contents of the leak as a footnote to a larger story about the whistle blower. This is just plain weird.

[aggroculture]

Did she leak because she thought the NSA was going to bury the info? Or that Trump was going to block it getting investigated?

[allegro]

Did she leak because she thought the NSA was going to bury the info? Or that Trump was going to block it getting investigated?

That's the magic question.

What was her intent? Hating Trump isn't intent.

[Jinsai]

also, maybe not quite a smoking gun, but when combined with other evidence it could be crucial. And, there's some revelatory shit there that the public was not privy to in there, and that at least changes the public debate... or at least, it should.

It's becoming increasingly difficult for Trump's apologists to imply that Russia didn't even attempt to influence our election. It's becoming pretty undeniable, no matter how horribly Meghan Kelly fails to sap Putin for answers.

In other news, WSJ is reporting that Trump is proposing fitting The Wall with solar panels so that it pays for itself.
I officially do not know what's real anymore.

HOLY SHIT!
JEFF SESSIONS OFFERS TO RESIGN (apparently?!)?!?!??!!??!?!?!?!?!

[theimage13]

HOLY SHIT!
JEFF SESSIONS OFFERS TO RESIGN (apparently?!)?!?!??!!??!?!?!?!?!

No. In a heated argument sometime in the past he apparently offered it, most likely haphazardly, as a "what the hell do you want me to do, quit?!" kind of thing. Think House of Cards. From the articles I've read it doesn't sound like it was a cool, calculated, "I should resign" type of offer.

[Jinsai]

No. In a heated argument sometime in the past he apparently offered it, most likely haphazardly, as a "what the hell do you want me to do, quit?!" kind of thing. Think House of Cards. From the articles I've read it doesn't sound like it was a cool, calculated, "I should resign" type of offer.

Then NYTimes is fucking up big time with the coverage here...

It seems like this is borderline click-bait sensationalism, from the NYTimes, if your take is correct?

(Not doubting you, and it all seems so insane that I have no idea what's real anymore, but this is what I was skimming through earlier)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/us/politics/jeff-sessions-donald-trump.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

[allegate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPkY-dhuI7w

Welp, there it is: Truly the difference between a liberal and a conservative.

[sweeterthan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPkY-dhuI7w

Welp, there it is: Truly the difference between a liberal and a conservative.

"I do not support a livable wage"
She's never had to work for minimum wage. God I hope she loses.

[Haysey_Draws]

...how on earth can you publicly state you DON'T support a livable wage? ...is this real? Are we all just plugged into the Matrix or something? The twilight zone? Year Zero...

[baudolino]

...how on earth can you publicly state you DON'T support a livable wage? ...is this real? Are we all just plugged into the Matrix or something? The twilight zone? Year Zero...
i guess we just have been ignorant for too long. and weird, static memes (in their original meaning) took over. we all are responsible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/politico/status/872519671320281098


That's no summary, that's a space station.

[Swykk]

Is it, though?

Look, I read it. I know that it shows Trump directly attempted to obstruct and mos def brought up things that would make anyone think he's up Russia's ass (the lady protests too much, methinks).

But then I remember the party before country repugnantcunts and I think, these greasy turds are going to continue shrugging their shoulders because they can't stop jerking off to taking away people's healthcare to spite the black guy president they hate so much.

And Trump named a guy who specializes in shielding rich people to head the FBI?! Because of course he did.

I'm convinced the only way to get any traction on the multitude of allegations is to vote these fucks out in 2018 and that'll be a fun task since you can assault a reporter and get elected the next day.

[Jinsai]

Comey's account pretty much confirms what sources were saying it would claim, and then some. It's obviously inappropriate behavior, and it could be construed to be an attempt at obstructing justice, but it's probably not enough. Also, since Trump apparently ensured that these conversations were held in private (for obvious reasons), it will end up being a situation where it's his word vs Trump's, and Trump will lie.

The closest thing to a smoking gun here, at least in my eyes, is in how the account is corroborated in intent by the gaffe in Trump's interview with Lester Holt.

Maybe we can get the ball rolling and get Trump to lie under oath.

[hellospaceboy]

Maybe we can get the ball rolling and get Trump to lie under oath.

Sadly, I doubt that we'll get Trump to testify under oath.

[Jinsai]

yep. SAD!

also, this is awkward... they both sound like they need to check to make sure it's ok for them to testify. Coats looks terrified

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/872483529338216448

[allegate]

Is it, though? I just meant for a summary it's pretty long. I think his summary of "Purple Cow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Cow)" would be at least two paragraphs long.

[Jinsai]

Comey already got the ball rolling. Comey's release gave Trump 24hrs before the hearing even starts to tweet out some defensive shit that will incriminate Trump.

Yeah... I just read it again... it's actually pretty intense. Political analysts are saying this is like the Nixon tapes... I'm not sure if it goes that far, but it could. The real fallout will become clearer tomorrow.

Meanwhile, Trump's polls drop further, which one outlet calling it at 34% approval.

[Swykk]

Well, that sounds great. I hope I'm being too cynical, honestly.

[Wretchedest]

It mentioned the hookers, so there is that

[Jinsai]

Trump lawyer says POTUS feels completely vindicated by summary. Did he read it?!?!

[Haysey_Draws]

Trump lawyer says POTUS feels completely vindicated by summary. Did he read it?!?!

At this point i think it's safe to assume he doesn't read anything, only listens to quick soundbites on this favorite programs...and i'm not even joking.

[halo eighteen]

At this point i think it's safe to assume he doesn't read anything, only listens to quick soundbites on this favorite programs...and i'm not even joking.

CAN he even read? This is a serious question.

[theimage13]

He should have come right out and advised the President that it would be highly inappropriate to meet with him at the White House, etc.; instead, Comey just continued taking notes and met with the President, anyway, so Comey could keep his job AND cover his own ass.

From today's Comey statement, regarding the February 14th "I hope you can let this go" meeting:


Shortly afterwards, I spoke with Attorney General Sessions in person to pass along the President’s concerns about leaks. I took the opportunity to implore the Attorney General to prevent any future direct communication between the President and me. I told the AG that what had just happened – him being asked to leave while the FBI Director, who reports to the AG, remained behind – was inappropriate and should never happen. He did not reply.

[sweeterthan]

Today's the day! Remember when Trump blew Comey a kiss, mafia style, at his inauguration? I thought it was so weird at the time. I want to remind everyone of that moment before the hearing.

[Haysey_Draws]

Today's the day! Remember when Trump blew Comey a kiss, mafia style, at his inauguration? I thought it was so weird at the time. I want to remind everyone of that moment before the hearing.

Wait, REALLY? That's...really weird :eek:

[sweeterthan]

Wait, REALLY? That's...really weird :eek:

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/wtf-donald-trump-blows-kiss-james-comey-appears-kiss-cheek/1098/

[Swykk]

Lindsey Graham is already calling the statement "a good day for the president."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/07/politics/lindsey-graham-james-comey-testimony/

I'm still standing by my previous post. Repubs are not going to do anything. Party over country.

[GulDukat]

Lindsey Graham is already calling the statement "a good day for the president."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/07/politics/lindsey-graham-james-comey-testimony/

I'm still standing by my previous post. Repubs are not going to do anything. Party over country.

Comey's opening statements read like a scene from The Godfather. WTF is he talking about? Trump can do anything and they (The GOP) don't care. as long as they get their fucking tax cuts and Trump remains popular with his base.

[Haysey_Draws]

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/wtf-donald-trump-blows-kiss-james-comey-appears-kiss-cheek/1098/

...WOW... :eek:

[Jinsai]

watching live... this is surprisingly stressful.

Jesus, Comey doesn't look like he's slept in a month

[allegro]

Lindsey Graham is already calling the statement "a good day for the president."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/07/politics/lindsey-graham-james-comey-testimony/

I'm still standing by my previous post. Repubs are not going to do anything. Party over country.
Not unless they find out something HORRIBLE (Trump selling babies to Russia for human sacrifice or something) otherwise nope, nothing will happen. Lindsey Graham is right: impeachment requires a criminal act, not just a constitutional crisis.

[Baphomette]

a criminal act, not just a constitutional crisis.Isn't obstruction of justice a criminal act? EDIT Are the suggestions that this was a case of obstruction of justice based on those "I hope" comments to Comey?

[Jinsai]

Isn't obstruction of justice a criminal act? EDIT Are the suggestions that this was a case of obstruction of justice based on those "I hope" comments to Comey?

It's how it's interpreted... and there's so much up for interpretation here... and that's because Trump talked to him in vague The Godfather language.
One thing Trump has a lot of experience with is being sued and dealing with lawyers. His language follows instinctively, especially when he knows that he's about to do something gray-area, and knows he's about to lie, and knows he has to be careful with clarity.

Taking a closer look at the impeachable definition of "obstruction of justice" allows for tons of wiggle room, and the way our government is stacked right majority, good luck... because judges don't judge politicians in impeachment proceedings... politicians do.

EDIT: fucking Rubio... Glad you got your briefing... you piece of shit.

[Baphomette]

Wanted to reach through the TV and choke the life out of Rubio.

[GulDukat]

FOX NEWS Headlines "I asked friend to give memo to reporter," "No one asked me lie."

[Jinsai]

Fox is for the toddler in the room... they aren't a legitimate news organization. They're blatantly slanted, just like HuffPo.

Trump will rely upon their spin, of course, I could have told you that a year ago.

[Louie_Cypher]

personal I think he's doing a good honest and concise, proud of my senate members, go California go Warriors!
-Louie

[Deepvoid]

Is it me or McCain sounds so freaking confused. The face he made when he was told he was out of time was priceless.

[allegro]

Isn't obstruction of justice a criminal act? EDIT Are the suggestions that this was a case of obstruction of justice based on those "I hope" comments to Comey?

Trump didn't obstruct justice, not yet from a criminal standpoint. Firing Comey doesn't stop an investigation; the FBI investigation into Flynn, et al, has continued, even Comey said that today, he verified that firing the head of the FBI does nothing to an investigation.

And no justice was obstructed; in fact, the deputy AG hired Mueller to be Special Counsel to investigate Flynn, and any possibility of the Russians and the Trump campaign colluding for money, or whatever.

Nixon's obstruction of justice charge was related to his issuing a command that the SPECIAL COUNSEL investigating NIXON be fired; his AG refused and resigned, his deputy AG refused and resigned.\

There were smoking guns with Nixon and Bill Clinton.

Comey is not a smoking gun.

[allegro]

It's how it's interpreted... and there's so much up for interpretation here... and that's because Trump talked to him in vague The Godfather language.
One thing Trump has a lot of experience with is being sued and dealing with lawyers. His language follows instinctively, especially when he knows that he's about to do something gray-area, and knows he's about to lie, and knows he has to be careful with clarity.
I disagree.

As Senator Harris said to Comey about both of them having been Prosecuting Attorneys: if a robber is holding a gun to you and says "I hope you give me all of your money and your wallet," that's not wishful thinking; it's a command enforced by a position of power.

Trump is an attorney's WORST FUCKING CLIENT. He arranges totally-inappropriate meetings, he tweets all kinds of stupid shit without running it by counsel, first, he has loose lips all the time, he's a LEGAL NIGHTMARE. Just having dinner with the head of the FBI is stupid in itself, not careful, not investigated, it's "I'm the King, all these fuckers work for ME, now, MUAAAHAHAHAHA." he's totally clueless.


But you can't convict Trump without FIRST convicting Flynn; Flynn, right now, is innocent until proven guilty. And, "hoping" (actually demanding) that Comey stops the Flynn investigation is not a lot different or more valuable than Bill Clinton stumbling into Loretta Lynch's private plane ...

And Comey made a big deal out of both.

But, nothing happened from either situation. Comey's press conference about the release of the Wiener laptop info less than two weeks before the election: MANY (most?) voters in those key Electoral states had ALREADY VOTED by that point.

Honestly, Russians interfering with the election has become the "smokescreen" at this point, seemingly to hide the real truth of there being MONETARY collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians which is at the heart of the Flynn investigation, the Kushner investigation, the Manafort investigation, and why Sessions recused himself.



I was floored by how BUMBLING AND STUPID McCain was today. Wtf.

[Bachy]

Fox is for the toddler in the room... they aren't a legitimate news organization. They're blatantly slanted, just like HuffPo.

Trump will rely upon their spin, of course, I could have told you that a year ago.

Obstruction?

http://i.imgur.com/okp66FD.gif

[Jinsai]

Is it me or McCain sounds so freaking confused. The face he made when he was told he was out of time was priceless.

The moment with McCain was the most surprising moment of the whole thing... in the lead-up to this, he's sounded like the rational voice in the Republican room. Suddenly, he sounds like he can't get his thoughts together. In addition, he brings up the non-sequitur ad hominem attack on Comey.

Maybe he was trying to regain traction with his base after they felt they were losing him? I get this must be a "non-partisan" inquiry, lol lol lol, we all could see where everyone was landing... but what the fuck was that?

Also, Kamela Harris, way to fuck up your moment in the spotlight there. She throws that sucker punch insinuation at him with the whole "and you don't need to answer this" and watch the look in his eyes darken. From that point on, he is a blank tragedy mask... he realizes he just got tricked into showing a moment of light-hearted levity, and then got side-swiped by a "and now that we're all agreeing, he held a gun to your head, didn't he? But don't answer that..." She threw it at him after a "comedy relief" joke moment meant to absolve tension! That was sneaky and fucked up, and it backfired.

And then question after question that she (hopefully) knows he cannot answer...
What the FUCK was that mess?!

[allegro]

And then question after question that [Harris] (hopefully) knows he cannot answer...
What the FUCK was that mess?!

She was totally being the show-off lawyer, there, it was totally self-serving, "yes, I used to be a prosecuting attorney, now I am going to pretend you are on the witness stand at a trial and show how good I am" except it was total fucking waste of time; it's obvious that she wrote those questions from a "lawyer" standpoint and NONE from the venue and context of the hearing standpoint.

[Jinsai]

As one of the Senators said to Comey, about both of them having been Prosecuting Attorneys, if a robber is holding a gun to you and says "I hope you give me all of your money and your wallet," that's not wishful thinking; it's a command enforced by a position of power.

Yes, but if that language can parse the floor and be enough for Republicans to admit is enough?
no.

I agree, but this is semantic manipulation of language, and Trump will not be judged by regular courts, but by his political peers, who in majority right now are finding that course of action acceptable.


Trump is an attorney's WORST FUCKING CLIENT. He arranges totally-inappropriate meetings, he tweets all kinds of stupid shit without running it by counsel, first, he has loose lips all the time, he's a LEGAL NIGHTMARE. Just having dinner with the head of the FBI is stupid in itself, not careful, not investigated, it's "I'm the King, all these fuckers work for ME, now, MUAAAHAHAHAHA." he's totally clueless.

Apparently Trump's lawyer's convinced him (as I assumed they would) to NOT tweet during this... Trump Sr sent Trump Jr to do it instead...



But you can't convict Trump without FIRST convicting Flynn; Flynn, right now, is innocent until proven guilty. And, "hoping" (actually demanding) that Comey stops the Flynn investigation is not a lot different or more valuable than Bill Clinton stumbling into Loretta Lynch's private plane ...

I'm not sure about this... You can, but it's a looser accusation. Then it comes back to the intent, and with a liar... a serial liar that everyone is allowing to lie because, hey, politics!

At least someone finally called him a liar... and I think everyone with a functioning brain realizes who is at least the bigger liar here.
And for all Comey's faults, I don't think he's lying about a goddamn thing. I think he's being as honest as his memory allows.


I was floored by how BUMBLING AND STUPID McCain was today. Wtf.

What the fuck indeed...

[Jinsai]

Trump didn't obstruct justice, not yet from a criminal standpoint. Firing Comey doesn't stop an investigation; the FBI investigation into Flynn, et al, has continued, even Comey said that today, he verified that firing the head of the FBI does nothing to an investigation.

And no justice was obstructed; in fact, the deputy AG hired Mueller to be Special Counsel to investigate Flynn, and any possibility of the Russians and the Trump campaign colluding for money, or whatever.

Nixon's obstruction of justice charge was related to his issuing a command that the SPECIAL COUNSEL investigating NIXON be fired; his AG refused and resigned, his deputy AG refused and resigned.\

There were smoking guns with Nixon and Bill Clinton.

Comey is not a smoking gun.

I'm curious though... does ignorance work the opposite way of the right wing spin here, where pundits are claiming "oh, that was just Trump not understanding presidential decorum!"

?

Where his language and behavior (typical of con men and business men of the shittier ilk) actually imparts an intention to willfully control the investigation? Isn't that a larger issue in this particular case? This is a side issue to collusion or really anything tying to Russia.

At that point, wouldn't it matter more if it was considered apparent that Trump was blatantly attempting to coerce a non-partisan judicial branch to become a sycophant, with the promise of retaining his job, and that perhaps he might, y'know, wriggle out of this whole Flynn thing if I stuff a few hundred dollars in your g-string, officer?

[allegro]

Where his language and behavior (typical of con men and business men of the shittier ilk) actually imparts an intention to willfully control the investigation? Isn't that a larger issue in this particular case? This is a side issue to collusion or really anything tying to Russia.

At that point, wouldn't it matter more if it was considered apparent that Trump was blatantly coerce a non-partisan judicial branch to become a sycophant, with the promise of retaining his job, and that perhaps he might, y'know, wriggle out of this whole Flynn thing if I stuff a few hundred dollars in your g-string, officer?

You have to look at the entire context, and this isn't in defense of Trump it's just the way the law looks at things:

When Trump said that to Comey about letting up on Flynn, it was, like, the day after Flynn had been let go; and Trump told Comey that he hoped that Comey would go easy on Flynn because Flynn is really a "good guy," and THAT is really no different than Trump claiming, during his campaign, that he would "go after" Hillary Clinton, but then stating, after he won, that he'd totally drop the Clinton issue because he "didn't want to hurt her."

Trump fired Flynn, but he didn't really want to see any harm come to him; but that in itself isn't going to STOP or PREVENT any harm from coming to Flynn, or the cessation of any criminal investigation into Flynn's conduct.

And firing Comey doesn't do anything, either, to stop the Russia investigation or the Flynn investigation.

None of what Trump has done, so far, has "wilfully controlled" an investigation. Not from a legal standpoint. Not YET, anyway. Trump is SO stupid that he doesn't even know HOW to willfully control these things.

I'm affording Trump the very same bumbling that I afforded Bill Clinton when he did something so stupid as to step onto the plane of the ATTORNEY GENERAL, although it was understood that the investigation into Hillary had been CONCLUDED by that point. But, shit happens, I don't think that Bill Clinton tried to stop an investigation, and I don't know that Trump was trying to play Vito Corleone and put a stop to any investigations.

Trump told Lester Holt that he fired Comey "because of Russia" but I believe THAT is a total lie.

Trump fired Comey because Comey didn't back Trump up on the "Obama was wiretapping my phones" loyalty shit during his prior testimony. Because Trump did not understand that the FBI Director position:

1) Does NOT report to the President
2) Is a 10-year appointment DELIBERATELY to NOT involve partisanship and/or loyalty
3) Pretty much always stays on throughout his/her appointment through various Presidents

So MANY of the Trump people are so fucking scared of him (and Bannon), it appears that none of them (except maybe Chris Christie) are trying to set him straight about the Constitution, about anything.

[Jinsai]

I'm knowledgable about some law, though I'm not a lawyer...

But this seems like "OJ is about to go free" because our language is failing us. All the pieces fit, the timing of everything is too perfect...
Coy language, like the exaggerated type you see in gangster movies, is what Trump seems to defer to when he knows he's crossing a line.

Also, why didn't any of his "allies" there in this inquisition "pressure" him to expand his thoughts more on the Lester Holt interview, wherein Trump admitted the decision to fire him because of the Russia investigation? Maybe I missed it, I had to run out the door to take a piss, and I've had some stuff to do in the background this morning, but I was waiting for that, and I only heard Comey bringing it up, in what almost sounded like a frustrated "HEY, GUYS, OVER HERE!!!!" kinda way.

[allegro]

I'm knowledgable about some law, though I'm not a lawyer...

But this seems like "OJ is about to go free" because our language is failing us. All the pieces fit, the timing of everything is too perfect...
Coy language, like the exaggerated type you see in gangster movies, is what Trump seems to defer to when he knows he's crossing a line.

Also, why didn't any of his "allies" there in this inquisition "pressure" him to expand his thoughts more on the Lester Holt interview, wherein Trump admitted the decision to fire him because of the Russia investigation? Maybe I missed it, I had to run out the door to take a piss, and I've had some stuff to do in the background this morning, but I was waiting for that, and I only heard Comey bringing it up, in what almost sounded like a frustrated "HEY, GUYS, OVER HERE!!!!" kinda way.

They did ask Comey, over and over, why he thought he was fired, and he said he didn't know, other than what was common knowledge per the Press (which is hearsay and speculation) and what Trump said, "because of Russia."

But, again, Trump SAID that but it might not even be TRUE. Trump likes to take credit for everything and give fake reasons for everything, then he backtracks. He's a guy who is used to firing people for whatever reason he wants, it's the CEO purview to be able to fire at will.

[Jinsai]

They did ask Comey, over and over, why he thought he was fired, and he said he didn't know, other than what was common knowledge per the Press (which is hearsay and speculation) and what Trump said, "because of Russia."

But, again, Trump SAID that but it might not even be TRUE. Trump likes to take credit for everything and give fake reasons for everything, then he backtracks. He's a guy who is used to firing people for whatever reason he wants, it's the CEO purview to be able to fire at will.

The impeachment proceedings against Nixon began when, asked if they should do something to cover this up, Nixon muttered a barely audible "mhmmm" onto a grainy reel recording that sounds (by modern standards) like it was recorded with a potato.

[allegro]

The impeachment proceedings against Nixon began when, asked if they should do something to cover this up, Nixon muttered a barely audible "mhmmm" onto a grainy reel recording that sounds (by modern standards) like it was recorded with a potato.

Yes, Nixon wanted to cover up the disclosure of tapes during an investigation INTO HIM, a CRIMINAL investigation, and he was deliberately trying to HIDE information.

Again, this is not the same thing as anything that Trump has done so far, not the same thing.

Look, this is important to me: Make no mistake, here, COMEY IS A PIECE OF SHIT. He constantly overstepped the boundaries of his job, ugh, I could list dozens of reasons why he did a bunch of stupid shit, and now he's admitted that he deliberately leaked memos to the press in what appears to be CYA and retribution for his being fired. ANY Democrat now giving Comey accolades at this point is a stupid hypocrite. The guy, himself, interfered in the election process.

But, the ball is in the court of Mueller, Mueller is who really matters at this point; this public "hearing" today is a clusterfuck that is largely useless to the investigation; if it was important, Mueller would have PREVENTED IT FROM OCCURRING in the interest of preserving an investigation.

The ONLY thing we are seeing with the Comey memos and testimony is a career lawyer trying to get more attention for himself (possible future book deal?) and to try to save his own ass. He wrote a bunch of memos but did not once forward them to his boss? Who does that, except if you suspect your own ass is on the line and you want some ammo against people? The original sources during the Memos painted Comey as somebody who wrote memos after nearly every meeting he ever had with anybody, as somebody with a nutty attention to detail. Today, Comey proved that was bullshit, and admitted that he ONLY composed these memos relative to Trump because he thinks Trump is a "liar." Which may be true, but it just shows that Comey didn't trust Hillary Clinton, he didn't trust Loretta Lynch, he didn't trust his boss the AG Jeff Sessions enough to tell him what was going on, he only spins everything to his own perspective to CYA.

[GulDukat]

We will see if Trump is charged with obstruction of justice. It took over two years for Nixon to resign after the Watergate break-in. I'm not saying Trump will or won't be impeached. We have to see where the special prosecutor goes with this, what further developments are, etc. A lot of unknown variables.

[allegro]

We will see if Trump is charged with obstruction of justice. It took over two years for Nixon to resign after the Watergate break-in. I'm not saying Trump will or won't be impeached. We have to see where the special prosecutor goes with this, what further developments are, etc. A lot of unknown variables.

If all we have right now is what we know right now, that's just not anywhere near on the level of obstruction; it's wishful thinking but no trial would ever prove it to be true per the definition of obstruction; and I don't believe that Mueller is even investigating that right now.

We have to remember the timeline of facts related to Nixon.

Nixon HATED the media, and the whole "Watergate" thing started with "The Pentagon Papers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Papers)." Nixon HATED leaks and HATED the press.

See this (http://watergate.info/chronology):

1971

June 13, 1971: The New York Times begins publishing the Pentagon Papers – the Defense Department’s secret history of the Vietnam War. The Washington Post will begin publishing the papers later in the week.

September 9, 1971: The White House “plumbers” unit – named for their orders to plug leaks in the administration – burglarizes a psychiatrist’s office to find files on Daniel Ellsberg, the former defense analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers.

1972

June 17, 1972: Five men, one of whom says he used to work for the CIA, are arrested at 2:30 a.m. trying to bug the offices of the Democratic National Committee at the Watergate hotel and office complex.

June 19, 1972: A GOP security aide is among the Watergate burglars, The Washington Post reports. Former attorney general John Mitchell, head of the Nixon reelection campaign, denies any link to the operation.

August 1, 1972: A $25,000 cashier’s check, apparently earmarked for the Nixon campaign, wound up in the bank account of a Watergate burglar, The Washington Post reports.

September 29, 1972: John Mitchell, while serving as attorney general, controlled a secret Republican fund used to finance widespread intelligence-gathering operations against the Democrats, The Post reports.

October 10, 1972: FBI agents establish that the Watergate break-in stems from a massive campaign of political spying and sabotage conducted on behalf of the Nixon reelection effort, The Post reports.

November 11, 1972: Nixon is reelected in one of the largest landslides in American political history, taking more than 60 percent of the vote and crushing the Democratic nominee, Sen. George McGovern of South Dakota.

1973

January 30, 1973: Former Nixon aides G. Gordon Liddy and James W. McCord Jr. are convicted of conspiracy, burglary and wiretapping in the Watergate incident. Five other men plead guilty, but mysteries remain.

April 30, 1973: Nixon’s top White House staffers, H.R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman, and Attorney General Richard Kleindienst resign over the scandal. White House counsel John Dean is fired.

May 18, 1973: The Senate Watergate committee begins its nationally televised hearings. Attorney General-designate Elliot Richardson taps former solicitor general Archibald Cox as the Justice Department’s special prosecutor for Watergate.

June 3, 1973: John Dean has told Watergate investigators that he discussed the Watergate cover-up with President Nixon at least 35 times, The Post reports.

June 13, 1973: Watergate prosecutors find a memo addressed to John Ehrlichman describing in detail the plans to burglarize the office of Pentagon Papers defendant Daniel Ellsberg’s psychiatrist, The Post reports.

July 13, 1973: Alexander Butterfield, former presidential appointments secretary, reveals in congressional testimony that since 1971 Nixon had recorded all conversations and telephone calls in his offices.

July 18, 1973: Nixon reportedly orders the White House taping system disconnected.

July 23, 1973: Nixon refuses to turn over the presidential tape recordings to the Senate Watergate committee or the special prosecutor.

October 20, 1973: Saturday Night Massacre: Nixon fires Archibald Cox and abolishes the office of the special prosecutor. Attorney General Richardson and Deputy Attorney General William D. Ruckelshaus resign. Pressure for impeachment mounts in Congress.

November 17, 1973: Nixon declares, “I’m not a crook,” maintaining his innocence in the Watergate case.

December 7, 1973: The White House can’t explain an 18 1/2 -minute gap in one of the subpoenaed tapes. Chief of staff Alexander Haig says one theory is that “some sinister force” erased the segment.

1974

April 30, 1974: The White House releases more than 1,200 pages of edited transcripts of the Nixon tapes to the House Judiciary Committee, but the committee insists that the tapes themselves must be turned over.

July 24, 1974: The Supreme Court rules unanimously that Nixon must turn over the tape recordings of 64 White House conversations, rejecting the president’s claims of executive privilege.

July 27, 1974: House Judiciary Committee passes the first of three articles of impeachment, charging obstruction of justice.

August 8, 1974: Richard Nixon becomes the first U.S. president to resign. Vice President Gerald R. Ford assumes the country’s highest office. He will later pardon Nixon of all charges related to the Watergate case.

[GulDukat]

And Trump was elected a mere seven months ago, been president for four and a half months. I too have talked to friends about getting ahead of ourselves. I think at this stage it's better not to say anything with any certainly. I would love Trump to be forced out of office, but it won't happen tomorrow.

[allegro]

Yup.

Look at the Lewinsky chronology (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/resources/lewinsky/timeline/) and the Jones v Clinton chronology (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/pjones/timeline.htm).

[Jinsai]

Yes, Nixon wanted to cover up the disclosure of tapes during an investigation INTO HIM, a CRIMINAL investigation, and he was deliberately trying to HIDE information.

Again, this is not the same thing as anything that Trump has done so far, not the same thing.

We have him on live HD 1080p interview with Lester Holt, saying that basically the Russian Collusion inquiry was bumming him out so he fired the director of the FBI! It has him asserting that the claims Comey just made are "completely untrue," so ONE of these two people cannot be a liar.

Cross analyze it with "consistency" on his twitter feed, if we are to regard that as a record of official government statements (though not really, I know).

But you want the biggest clue that this is fucking shattering to Trump and his fleeing support?

Still. No. Twitter. Response.

In his moment of (perhaps) greatest public scrutiny and attention, he didn't respond via his mouthpiece.
Smaller scandalous moments?

Immediate tweets... unhinged tweets...

It's strange that we measure the sanity of our president in this sort of way, but fitting. We've earned it.

[Jinsai]

If all we have right now is what we know right now, that's just not anywhere near on the level of obstruction; it's wishful thinking but no trial would ever prove it to be true per the definition of obstruction; and I don't believe that Mueller is even investigating that right now.

Perhaps no "politician-led trial" in this current climate is likely to move forward. I think that's true.
A normal court removed from this ultimate level of protection that excludes the person in question from immediate prosecution? I think that would have a good chance at running ahead full speed.

I also want to say that your timeline for the Nixon impeachment process is awesome, and puts a lot into perspective. I would offer some counterpoints, regarding how modern technology has shoved the goal posts around a bit here and there, but the nature of that consideration (and the ambiguity it introduces) are beyond my understanding to argue.

Even Huffington Post was leading with an article yesterday that was titled something like "Let's Be Honest, Comey Isn't Going to Fix This"

I read the article and agreed with it.
It lowered my expectations from what would roll out today, which still feels like something I need to keep considering and looking over.

I think the article needs to be re-visited though. This didn't play out today the way I think anybody expected it would. Not completely. It's hard to get past the disappointment I feel towards Harris and McCain, who I truly hoped was going to stand up to his party and push for answers that didn't sound... lost

I had a neutral opinion of Comey before really, but I walked away from this incredibly impressed. Maybe I'm just so used to hearing spin and lies on repeat, it blows my mind to turn on a news network and see someone just say the truth, and even disappoint where a question was begging for sensationalism. I've gained a lot of respect for him.

I did get this strange feeling while watching his expression during his exchange with Harris... I'm reading into it, I know, but there's some flashes there where it just feels like he's saying "JUST ASK ME THE RIGHT GODDAMN QUESTION!" She kept asking him things that ran along the line of "so, this classified information that you can't talk about, would you like to talk about it?"

He was candid and forthcoming, but I got this weird feeling he wanted to say something there, but she kept phrasing the question in a way that made it impossible to answer.

Also, given how I'm just kinda rambling along here, I realize it might seem like I was sarcastic, but no... your time line for the Nixon process is important to keep in mind. Nothing happens overnight, but I don't think anyone was expecting this to be "ok, we'll have Pence (YAY!!!!) in a week!"
No matter how insignificant anyone tries to spin this to be, it's not going away.

[Jinsai]

He is now using his personal lawyer to handle all responses and statements relative to this matter, remember?

His lawyer did a press conference after the hearing. It was really interesting.

Trump isn't asserting that he didn't say he wanted Comey gone due to Russia to Lester Holt; he's saying that a lot of the other stuff that Comey said is untrue, re Comey's characterizations of various things.

Remember, a LOT of Comey's testimony today related to "body language" and Comey's "gut feelings" or and not a whole lot of direct instructions or commands or directions, etc. It's classic hearsay, assumptions, and a whole lot of inadmissible evidence.

He actually IMITATED Jeff Sessions today re how Sessions responded to Comey's asking not to be left alone with Trump again, with this "shrug" motion. And he went into great detail about what it "meant" for Trump to send AG Sessions and others out of the room to only talk with Comey, even though Sessions didn't say "Mr. President, as Jim's boss I think it's important to remain here" or whatever. So, NOBODY bothered telling the President -- not Comey, not the AG, not the Director of Homeland Security, nobody - that the FBI director works under the AG and the DOJ but that unless it's a pre-planned meeting with a pre-specified agenda (e.g. Obama's meeting with Comey about the Justice System in this country), it is highly inappropriate for the President to do that, but Comey does it anyway, and puts in in his "Bag of Memos."

It's like having a boss who keeps calling you "shithead" in meetings and others see it and nobody says one fucking thing about how you can't do that shit.

Which is, like, a bunch of fucking CLOWNS not wiling to act as advisors to the President when they KNOW he's a moron.

So, really, the most Trump is guilty of is being a moron at this point. Seriously.

But... UGH...

Have we reached an impasse? Is Trump truly capable of being "teflon" through spending a lifetime navigating how to do shitty stuff and not face the consequences?

If then, he's.... a moron, yes, but one you can't defeat.
He's the real world internet troll you can't ignore.

Calling him stupid excuses his cluelessness. It makes it "believable" that he could say "Hey, so a lot of people want your job... and, uh, I need loyalty... I expect it... loyalty... also, this Flynn thing, can you make it go away?" and not understand CLEARLY that he's not just a dumb toddler who doesn't get what that means! To hear the right outlets spin this, it's like they're saying "Well, he's a business tycoon, so he didn't know that it wasn't ok to shove around the head of the FBI to get your nagging political issues to go away... that's just how businessmen work."

And it IS how businessmen work.

[allegro]

I had a neutral opinion of Comey before really, but I walked away from this incredibly impressed. Maybe I'm just so used to hearing spin and lies on repeat, it blows my mind to turn on a news network and see someone just say the truth, and even disappoint where a question was begging for sensationalism. I've gained a lot of respect for him.

Ugh, God. This is exactly what he wanted and you fell for it, hook line and sinker.

The bottom line was that Comey UNDER OATH, deliberately VOLUNTEERED his testimony (largely useless) to get himself off the public hook (ultimately, this won't work) to PROMOTE HIMSELF AS A SUPERHERO, and people are falling for this shit.

And what did his testimony include?

THE FACT THAT HE DELIBERATELY LEAKED HIS MEMOS, WHICH HE WROTE IN A WAY TO APPEAR TO BE "UNCLASSIFIED" EVEN THOUGH IT WAS HIS JOB TO KEEP ALL OF THE INFORMATION CLASSIFIED UNDER AN INVESTIGATION, TO TRY TO FORCE THE GOVERNMENT TO HIRE A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR

SO NOW COMEY'S TAKING CREDIT FOR THE MUELLER APPOINTMENT, TOO, WHEN WE HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE THAT DEPUTY AG ROSENSTEIN HADN'T ALREADY PLANNED TO HIRE MUELLER WITHOUT COMEY'S MEMO.

He believed that with him gone, any investigation would cease; but in his testimony today, he said that firing the FBI Director would NEVER stop an FBI investigation.

So? HE'S FULL OF SHIT.

I believed Paula Yates' testimony was way more beneficial to the investigation than Comey's. SHE handled herself way better. Trump said he fired Comey due to his "terrible performance" during Comey's prior testimony.

NO ... Trump isn't "Teflon."

He's been in there LESS THAN SIX MONTHS. The investigation into Russian connections to the Trump campaign (which, for several months, even into May, were NOT investigating Trump, directly, this per Comey and per Dianne Feinstein) is less than nine months old.

Wishful thinking doesn't make things real.

Yes, I think Trump gets money from Russia; yes, I think there may be foreign funds having gone to or still going to the Trumps; yes, this would violate the emoluments clause, per most experts: will we find this out in the next few YEARS?? Maybe. But this shit doesn't unfold like CSI crime shows. We are an instant gratification society thinking everything is like the Simpson trial. It's not.

It took Paula Jones SIX FUCKING YEARS to sue Bill Clinton, and it had to go all the way to the SCOTUS to proceed.

[allegro]

Trump is denying the "loyalty" claim and Comey's version re the "loyalty" claim has changed a few times.

it all comes down to the President, as I have said many times already, being ignorant about Government and how it works, and that "loyalty" works in the business world but he can't expect personal or administrative loyalty from the FBI, because the FBI is DELIBERATELY set up to NOT BE LOYAL TO ANY ADMINISTRATION OR PARTY; Trump's own lawyer, today, was an idiot when he said that it's reasonable for an Administration to expect loyalty.

If ANYTHING comes out of this, it's the knowledge that:

1) we should revise ARTICLE II, SECTION 1, CLAUSE 5 of the U.S. Constitution to have a maximum age for Presidential candidates (it already has a minimum, 35 - now it needs a maximum, too) and

2) we need to revise the Constitution to require that Presidents be lawyers. Because here is an example of a moron who doesn't know SHIT about the law or our Constitution and who uses his ignorance as a way to skirt all of it.

[Jinsai]

Ugh, God. This is exactly what he wanted and you fell for it, hook line and sinker.

Well give me some credit in your estimation. He's far from a super hero in my eyes. He's moved up a notch from irritation, if I'm imagining a scale here. And I agree that Yates' testimony was great, but broadly overlooked on a public visibility scale... but we could speculate forever why it isn't having this same impact.

SOMETHING about this moment is very much disturbing the Trump camp. They don't know how to respond. They'll come up with a response, but they don't really have one. They feel the impact of something that you and many others might be missing...

The fact that today, a shit ton of people tuned in to a political inquiry like it was the fucking super bowl, and prayed that he would be impeached.
He can lie about his inauguration crowd numbers, you can't deny that there was something kind of unique that just happened that wasn't "fake news"...

I don't think even Trump can. He might just be realizing, for the first time, that people actually don't like him.

EDIT: I didn't see a response from Trump about the loyalty claim. Time to dive back in...

[allegro]

EDIT: I didn't see a response from Trump about the loyalty claim. Time to dive back in...


Did you watch the press conference by Marc Kasowitz, Trump's private attorney (http://www.npr.org/2017/06/08/532100028/trumps-lawyer-fires-back-after-comey-testimony-denies-asking-for-loyalty-pledge)?

[Jinsai]

Did you watch the press conference by Marc Kasowitz, Trump's private attorney (http://www.npr.org/2017/06/08/532100028/trumps-lawyer-fires-back-after-comey-testimony-denies-asking-for-loyalty-pledge)?

OH my god... I can't take it. I need a break. He's just mis-contextizing statements and cherry picking... I need a minute.

[allegro]

Wanna see something really hilarious?

Read this about Marc Kasowitz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Kasowitz).

[allegro]

OH my god... I can't take it. I need a break. He's just mis-contextizing statements and cherry picking... I need a minute.
But, that's how law works; Comey used that same cherry-picking to his benefit, using things like body language, inference, gut feelings, typical procedure vs. atypical procedure, and a whole lot of other shit that would be deemed to be just that in a legal investigation: Shit.

Look at it this way: Comey using the same types of "evidence" (LOL) against Hillary Clinton would make the people in this forum go fucking apeshit.

Notice the huge missing person in this testimony today? MUELLER.

Because this isn't part of his investigation and, really, HIS investigation is the real investigation.

this thing today is a dog and pony show.

[allegro]

Yesterday's testimony of Coats, Rosenstein and McCabe:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41rdxjyYmE8


Dan Coats: Current Director of National Intelligence

Andrew McCabe: Acting Director of the FBI

Rod Rosenstein: Deputy Attorney General of the U.S. (and Acting AG relative to these investigations)

[allegro]

OH my god... I can't take it. I need a break. He's just mis-contextizing statements and cherry picking... I need a minute.

Viewing this all from the perspective of Comey's testimony today, as if that and he is somehow the sole focal point (which is what Comey loves), the TRUE smoking gun requiring further investigation is (IMHO) STILL Sally Yates' testimony.

SEE THIS from May 8th (https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/05/08/former-justice-official-testify-about-telling-white-house-about-michael-flynn-russia-contacts/seK7ZhxH9Sg13gsVWfw8nL/story.html)

[Jinsai]

I posted a shorter segment of the video w/ Coats somewhere before Comeybowl

Silence on this sort of level won't be tolerated for long. That was too dramatic to stay a cliffhanger. 2017, American Politics Apprentice

but it'll go somewhere... The ball will get rolling and people will fold.

[Jinsai]

I read the first paragraph of this, (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/us/politics/senate-testimony-hearing.html?action=click&contentCollection=us&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&version=newsevent&rref=collection%2Fnews-event%2Fdonald-trump-white-house) and in my head, I actually wondered what it sounds like when allegro says, out loud, "OH FUCK THIS"

[Louie_Cypher]

Ugh, God. This is exactly what he wanted and you fell for it, hook line and sinker.

The bottom line was that Comey UNDER OATH, deliberately VOLUNTEERED his testimony (largely useless) to get himself off the public hook (ultimately, this won't work) to PROMOTE HIMSELF AS A SUPERHERO, and people are falling for this shit.

And what did his testimony include?

THE FACT THAT HE DELIBERATELY LEAKED HIS MEMOS, WHICH HE WROTE IN A WAY TO APPEAR TO BE "UNCLASSIFIED" EVEN THOUGH IT WAS HIS JOB TO KEEP ALL OF THE INFORMATION CLASSIFIED UNDER AN INVESTIGATION, TO TRY TO FORCE THE GOVERNMENT TO HIRE A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR

SO NOW COMEY'S TAKING CREDIT FOR THE MUELLER APPOINTMENT, TOO, WHEN WE HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE THAT DEPUTY AG ROSENSTEIN HADN'T ALREADY PLANNED TO HIRE MUELLER WITHOUT COMEY'S MEMO.

He believed that with him gone, any investigation would cease; but in his testimony today, he said that firing the FBI Director would NEVER stop an FBI investigation.

So? HE'S FULL OF SHIT.

I believed Paula Yates' testimony was way more beneficial to the investigation than Comey's. SHE handled herself way better. Trump said he fired Comey due to his "terrible performance" during Comey's prior testimony.

NO ... Trump isn't "Teflon."

He's been in there LESS THAN SIX MONTHS. The investigation into Russian connections to the Trump campaign (which, for several months, even into May, were NOT investigating Trump, directly, this per Comey and per Dianne Feinstein) is less than nine months old.

Wishful thinking doesn't make things real.

Yes, I think Trump gets money from Russia; yes, I think there may be foreign funds having gone to or still going to the Trumps; yes, this would violate the emoluments clause, per most experts: will we find this out in the next few YEARS?? Maybe. But this shit doesn't unfold like CSI crime shows. We are an instant gratification society thinking everything is like the Simpson trial. It's not.

It took Paula Jones SIX FUCKING YEARS to sue Bill Clinton, and it had to go all the way to the SCOTUS to proceed.

does under oath apply if your an Aithiest, if i swear to a god I don't believe in does that count? I'm team Comey, I can say that I've worked, with theses folks, (san bernardino), which was a huge, test, on my ethics, faith,choice, of profession, the fed's were nothing, but understanding, this was after the stoke i felt, privileged, to be called upon, privacy, vs. freedom I still question?much like belief in god, but I'm on my way to meet her
-Louie

[Jinsai]

does under oath apply if your an Aithiest, if i swear to a god I don't believe in does that count? I'm team Comey, I can say that I've worked, with theses folks, (san bernardino), which was a huge, test, on my ethics, faith,choice, of profession, the fed's were nothing, but understanding, this was after the stoke i felt, privileged, to be called upon, privacy, vs. freedom I still question?much like belief in god, but I'm on my way to meet her
-Louie

Yes. The religious affiliation is just "there" now... actually, who knows, in some states you still can't run for public office if you're an atheist, so who knows

[hellospaceboy]

Trump said he fired Comey due to his "terrible performance" during Comey's prior testimony.


To be fair, Trump caused all the questions about his reasoning... as Comey said in his testimony, the president can fire the FBI director without giving a reason... yet Trump said in an interview, on tape, that he had the Russia investigation in mind when he made the decision.
I know, they gave several "official" reasons, but Russia being one means real trouble for Trump, because it plays into the narrative that he was/is trying to obstruct the investigation.

And he (allegedly) bragged about the firing "easing the pressure" a few days after that!!!

[hellospaceboy]

One question nobody seems to ask: who else did Trump ask to take the loyalty oath?! I'm sure it wasn't exclusive to Comey!

I guarantee you that Paul Ryan could keep his job because he took the loyalty pledge, and so on... all the GOP politicians who were hesitant to support him during the campaign... Loyalty to Trump instead of the country.

[hellospaceboy]

^^^
This is really fascinating!

[allegro]

I read the first paragraph of this, (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/us/politics/senate-testimony-hearing.html?action=click&contentCollection=us&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&version=newsevent&rref=collection%2Fnews-event%2Fdonald-trump-white-house) and in my head, I actually wondered what it sounds like when allegro says, out loud, "OH FUCK THIS"

That's a great article!

This was my favorite part of #ComeyDay, "Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/06/08/why-did-comey-say-will-no-one-rid-me-of-this-meddlesome-priest/?utm_term=.f54d3624bc00

[theimage13]

All in all, this testimony was exactly what I thought it would be...no big deal.

I mean, was there any new information gleaned from this? Any concrete evidence of criminal activity?

No? It was all just re-hashing the same he said/she said and speculation that we've been hearing for months?

Cool. So the world keeps turning, the president remains safe from impeachment, and everyone remains angry but unable to do anything. Gotcha.

[hellospaceboy]

I mean, was there any new information gleaned from this? Any concrete evidence of criminal activity?

The only new development is that many things that were reported in the media were confirmed by the former director of the FBI under oath.

[theimage13]

CNN chyron is currently calling it "Comey's bombshell testimony".

I'm so sick of this hyperbole. Can we please discuss things for what they actually are and stop exaggerating the importance of every single thing that gets said?

[Jinsai]

Honestly, I think you're underselling the gravity of it.

[allegro]

Meanwhile, there's this, unbelievable:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/704722/watch-sen-claire-mccaskill-obliterate-republicans-after-confirmed-there-no-hearings-healthcare-bill

[theimage13]

Honestly, I think you're underselling the gravity of it.

Not to sound snarky, but enlighten me then. All I really took away from this was a confirmation of things we'd already heard dozens of times over. There was still nothing that made the crowd gasp and go "holy shit, this has got to lead to impeachment". There was no smoking gun. No felonious accusations. If anything, this seemed to confirm that the presidency is safe. OTHER people might be in deep trouble - but there's still nothing at all that points to charges against the president.

I'm not saying that the things said yesterday are minor - but they're not new or shocking in any way, hence my objection to the rampant over-hyping of the hearing. Important to get it on record? Yes. Groundbreaking new information? No.

[theimage13]

Meanwhile, there's this, unbelievable:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/704722/watch-sen-claire-mccaskill-obliterate-republicans-after-confirmed-there-no-hearings-healthcare-bill

Putting up the headline, in the same font size the website used, because it's worth it.

Watch Sen. Claire McCaskill obliterate Republicans after it's confirmed there will be no hearings on their health-care bill (http://theweek.com/speedreads/704722/watch-sen-claire-mccaskill-obliterate-republicans-after-confirmed-there-no-hearings-healthcare-bill)

(edit: huh, it killed the formatting and turned it into a link again. Point remains, it was worth putting that text on this page)

[Jinsai]

Not to sound snarky, but enlighten me then. All I really took away from this was a confirmation of things we'd already heard dozens of times over. There was still nothing that made the crowd gasp and go "holy shit, this has got to lead to impeachment". There was no smoking gun. No felonious accusations. If anything, this seemed to confirm that the presidency is safe. OTHER people might be in deep trouble - but there's still nothing at all that points to charges against the president.

I'm not saying that the things said yesterday are minor - but they're not new or shocking in any way, hence my objection to the rampant over-hyping of the hearing. Important to get it on record? Yes. Groundbreaking new information? No.

Some of the details didn't come out until Comey's summary. Here, they've been testified to under oath. That matters.

The Flynn thing and "lift the cloud" of Russian investigation is where it could be considered obstruction. You know things are looking bad when the best excuse his apologists can come up with is that he's politically clueless. Trump's delayed Twitter response was insanely pathetic.

It all depends on how Trump handles this, along with his lawyers, who are apparently planning on bringing a suit against him. They should be careful what they accuse him of.
And in breaking news, Trump just accused Comey of lying under oath.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/09/us/politics/trump-comey.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65415509&pgtype=Homepage&_r=0

Just saying, this isn't the beginning and the end... but it's not going to sputter out, and that Comey testimony is making the history books.

[Louie_Cypher]

smart discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9NuaTzSFW0
louiee

[Deepvoid]

Hopefully Trump follows through with his wish to testify under oath. Chances are he'll perjure himself.

I doubt his lawyer would let him walk into this trap though.
From the answer he gave today during his presser, doesn't look like there are any tapes.

[Louie_Cypher]

Hopefully Trump follows through with his wish to testify under oath. Chances are he'll perjure himself.

I doubt his lawyer would let him walk into this trap though.
From the answer he gave today during his presser, doesn't look like there are any tapes. prosecutor's dream he can't help but lie, all his life every moment of his career
-Louie

[Jinsai]

Hopefully Trump follows through with his wish to testify under oath. Chances are he'll perjure himself.

I doubt his lawyer would let him walk into this trap though.
From the answer he gave today during his presser, doesn't look like there are any tapes.

The term "tapes" is anachronistic. He's probably weighing his legal council.

He could play coy and say "there are no tapes," even if he has digital recordings on his phone. If he slips up and admits that there are any recordings at all, he can be forced to relinquish them.

He's put his lawyers in a tough spot here though. He told the press 100%, I will testify under oath, and answer to Mueller under oath.
I wonder if he understands fully what that entails? If he walks back from that promise, it will only make him look more guilty. He probably thinks that he can just lie, and there won't be enough evidence to convict him since there's no Blue Dress in this situation.

The thing is, will the people around him also be willing to lie under oath to corroborate his version of external details, such as asking everyone present to leave the room...