Marilyn Manson - Born Villain

[Max Leo]

Old days tv performance for an award show:




TBP with a different (better, imo) band:




Now just compare these videos with the one featuring Rammstein and cry.

I know he is older and blah, blah, blah... but he is just 42, there are much older performers who try to keep themselves in a good physical and mental shape to avoid as much as possible all this kind of criticism we can see directed towards Manson these days, but Manson seems to don't give a crap anymore.

PS: I know everybody here must have watched those videos like a billion times, but I post them just for the sake of a good comparison betwwen what used to be a great performer and what he has become these days.

[Babali]

It's kind of a perfect song to perform all fucked up. Asking everyone, "How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?" in drunk slurs.

[BlueCalx]

People think he's dating Lana Del Rey now. I hope not, she could do better. She should be going for a rapper, an NBA player, shit, at least a dude with a car.

[RevolvingSheep]

I wonder why there is no release date or leak for this yet.

[BlueCalx]

I wonder why there is no release date or leak for this yet.

Probably because it's half-done, or it sounds shitty. No one can piss studio time up the wall like Manson & co.

[Space Suicide]

Probably because it's half-done, or it sounds shitty. No one can piss studio time up the wall like Manson & co.

Same stuff happened when THEOL was about to be released. No leak, only thing we got was when someone in japan uploaded it on their release day.

[Babali]

I wonder why there is no release date or leak for this yet.

There is a release date... May 1st.

[Conan The Barbarian]

lol ugh, those vids made me a bit depressed.

[Babali]

I think it's going to really suck if he dies here soon. It really is depressing to see how it's gone these past 6-8 years with him. There have been very small glimpses of hope but all hope seems to be quickly obliterated. I was really surprised when I read that interview with him that said he was sober and all he needed was his girlfriend(I think it was still Evan at the time), around the time he said he was going to do the triptych live. But that didn't last very long obviously, or wasn't even the truth, or was twisted words, who knows...

Often it seems like Manson feels he NEEDS to drink and do drugs because he's Marilyn-fucking-Manson, which I think I disagree with. I think he'd still have as many fans, possibly gain more, if he sobered up and got bright and articulate again.

[mrvirginia]

Same stuff happened when THEOL was about to be released. No leak, only thing we got was when someone in japan uploaded it on their release day.

whaaaa? there were multiple leaks of THEOL about a week or so before it was officially due out. we got to hear some unfinished versions and such, too. there were so many versions of some songs floating around before it actually came out that it was pretty ridiculous.

[RevolvingSheep]

What he needs to do is scrap all of his past music and write new music that actually accentuates whatever vocal ability he has left. Then he can tour the new album and just play the new stuff. Usually this would upset me but it makes sense given his lack of ability to properly perform old material. He needs to get away from the songs about how much of a badass he is and go back to writing artistic concept pieces like from MA and HW.

[Harry Seaward]

What he needs to do is scrap all of his past music and write new music that actually accentuates whatever vocal ability he has left. Then he can tour the new album and just play the new stuff. Usually this would upset me but it makes sense given his lack of ability to properly perform old material. He needs to get away from the songs about how much of a badass he is and go back to writing artistic concept pieces like from MA and HW.

No, what he needs to do is transform the old music to further accentuate his voice, and alter his performance techniques to suit his current 'shape' better. He has the ability to make this work, but he just keeps trying to do the same ol' same ol'.

[october_midnight]

Now I'm selling off all 4 of the MM Fewture action figures from 2002-2003 on Ebay

They're doubles, and the cards are a bit rough on a few, but letting them go pretty cheap. Some other auctions have them going for upwards of $100 which is ridiculous. If anyone's interested to making me an offer and there haven't been any bids yet shoot me a PM, I'll cancel the auctions and we can deal via PayPal. North American only please since they're big and expensive to ship. NO AUSTRALIANS UNLESS YOU'RE WILLING TO PAY BIG MONEY. (inside joke)

[Space Suicide]

whaaaa? there were multiple leaks of THEOL about a week or so before it was officially due out. we got to hear some unfinished versions and such, too. there were so many versions of some songs floating around before it actually came out that it was pretty ridiculous.

As I stated numerous pages before:

The full 'leak' of the album came out on the Japanese release date for the album. That was the source of those.

As for the rough versions of songs and other leaked tracks we only got these:

March Time Frame

Arma-goddamn-motherfuckin-geddon
Four Rusted Horses
maybeharmfulifswallowed (Leave a Scar)
Into the Fire

April Time Frame

Devour (Arnold S. Dubbed all of it)

May Time Frame

Pretty as a ($)

There was never a proper leak before any real release date that had every song. Only a few songs properly leaked and they're the ones I stated above.

[RevolvingSheep]

There is a release date... May 1st.

Hmm.. 5 and 1? Sounds like a return to old Manson numerology philosophies.

[mrvirginia]

As I stated numerous pages before:

The full 'leak' of the album came out on the Japanese release date for the album. That was the source of those.

As for the rough versions of songs and other leaked tracks we only got these:

March Time Frame

Arma-goddamn-motherfuckin-geddon
Four Rusted Horses
maybeharmfulifswallowed (Leave a Scar)
Into the Fire

April Time Frame

Devour (Arnold S. Dubbed all of it)

May Time Frame

Pretty as a ($)

There was never a proper leak before any real release date that had every song. Only a few songs properly leaked and they're the ones I stated above.

yeah this is what i was referring to, leaked tracks. not the entire album.

[Babali]

At least Manson isn't really making his latest records anything to run out and hear or lose sleep over. Hopefully this new one is good but it's not like I really want it to leak or anything.

[Magtig]

I think the guy or gal who said a few pages back ''how darez the manson be betterz than mah reznors'' summed this thread up. I really thiink he or she was just letting themselves be vulnerable and speak from their heart. Everyone else who is bashing him(Manson that is), I suspect thinks or feels the same and would never dare put that kind of honest feeling out there in fear of being bashed.

Ah right, the Manson Reznor binary universe. Yes, that does sum up this whole thread. Actually, every single word written here is secretly about Trent Reznor.

[october_midnight]

No kidding. Personally I felt that yutz to be the most transparent troll we've had in a while. At least that guy could use punctuation and grammar correctly. Anyone who thinks Marilyn Manson has had more of a cultural impact than Trent Reznor is just delusional. That's not an opinion. That's just fact. You can use record sales, success, inspiration of other artists...the list is endless.

[Space Suicide]

No kidding. Personally I felt that yutz to be the most transparent troll we've had in a while. At least that guy could use punctuation and grammar correctly. Anyone who thinks Marilyn Manson has had more of a cultural impact than Trent Reznor is just delusional. That's not an opinion. That's just fact. You can use record sales, success, inspiration of other artists...the list is endless.

You talking about the Google guy? LOL

[voidhead]

the only talk of manson in the media these days is in reference to his weight problem, his awful live show, or the possibility of him dating someone more relevant/popular than he is now.

in contrast, the press are far more favorable towards trent reznor, treating him as a legend.

just give pitchfork a search for both artists and see what comes up. if they aren't the 'taste-makers' of recent times, i don't know who are.

Trent and Nine Inch Nails are more respected in a musical sense. Concert-goers and rock fans know Trent will deliver a better show. And the industry has awarded Trent with Grammy etc.

Whereas Manson is much more well-known internationally by more people, but more in a celebrity sense. Many know who he is based on image, but a lot of these people aren't familiar with his music nor do they care about a new album.

He is smart keeping his name in the news in various ways. He knows what he's doing. But he has completely ignored the musical skill and the need for good collaborators etc. that he needs to make a "comeback".

Regarding who is more "relevant", which to me implies a broad cultural appeal, Manson wins because of things like the Lady Gaga remix and the recent Britney Spears tour which featured "Sweet Dreams" as an interlude, pop artists giving him nods as an influence (visually), etc.

[october_midnight]

Seriously? A Lady Gaga remix? Name one website that promoted it, one person that has ever talked about it here or anywhere else online other than a MM forum, etc. As for people giving MM a nod as an influence, you do know that MM is a nod to others before him, right? Not trying to troll, but how can anyone other than a fanboy possibly take this argument seriously? A guy that scores films, wins Oscars NOT because of his name, but because he pisses talent.....and a guy who was popular over a decade ago, brought in to the spotlight by Reznor himself, and now has become the epitome of a rock cliche. I dig old school MM as much as the next guy...but I'm not 18 anymore. I see reality for what it is.

And I'm not even the biggest Reznor fanboy. I fucking LOVE Nine Inch Nails but I don't collect every damn Halo like others here. Hell, go see how much I post in the NIN sections....barely ever. But seriously, other than people who will forever hang off MM's nuts, how can anyone even make this comparison. Any musician can tell you. You hit a certain level of fame...Marilyn Manson, Motley Crue....hell, Norah freakin' Jones....people will ALWAYS come to see you play. The fanboys will ALWAYS have the blinders on. But this seriously blows my mind that people can even think this.

[Babali]

I honestly think Marilyn Manson is more recognized and famous than Trent Reznor. He just has a much more memorable name and it doesn't even matter if he's relevant anymore, people still instantly know who you're talking about when you say Marilyn Manson, but when you say Trent Reznor to a lot of people they'll have no idea what you're talking about. Truth... Manson is almost a household name.

And this is from someone who likes Nine Inch Nails more than Manson and I'm trying to speak realistically here, not as a fanboy of either side.

[Max Leo]

I could agree that Manson has had a bigger "celebrity" status worldwide, lots of people know/knew him for being "the satanic weird guy", and if you ask to random people that are not much into rock music probably most of them would recognize Manson seeing a picture of him and many wouldn't know who is Reznor, specially outside the USA.

But if we talk about musical and cultural relevance, Reznor is far more relevant, no contest. Manson's celebrity status has gone downhill like his musical career for the last 10 years to say the least, while Reznor has known how to keep himself into the spotlight during this 21st century. Reznor is a very respected musician, a rock legend, his relevance these days is far above Manson's.

[Babali]

^ Yep, couldn't have said it better, sort of what I was trying to get across in my post above.

Reznor is definitely very respected and is becoming more of a legend as time progresses I think. I think NIN stayed a bit more underground than Manson, they haven't "sold out" and done all the top 40 hits like Manson. I know they've had some hit songs, but... I'm thinking... The Beautiful People, Sweet Dreams, The Dope Show, Disposable Teens, The Nobodies, Personal Jesus, Tainted Love, This Is The New Shit... 8 year old kids know those songs.

[Jinsai]

^ Yep, couldn't have said it better, sort of what I was trying to get across in my post above.

Reznor is definitely very respected and is becoming more of a legend as time progresses I think. I think NIN stayed a bit more underground than Manson, they haven't "sold out" and done all the top 40 hits like Manson. I know they've had some hit songs, but... I'm thinking... The Beautiful People, Sweet Dreams, The Dope Show, Disposable Teens, The Nobodies, Personal Jesus, Tainted Love, This Is The New Shit... 8 year old kids know those songs.

You do know that Tainted Love, Sweet Dreams, and Personal Jesus were gigantic hits before Manson covered them right? Additionally, the originals are by far still more familiar to people than his cover versions. Also, I'm pretty sure nobody knows The Nobodies, and nobody gives a shit about This is the New Shit, and even though I'm pretty sure I've heard it because I probably listened to the album at some point, I can't say I remember Disposable Teens.

So yeah, The Beautiful People... big song. Almost as big as that "I want to fuck you like an animal" song.

[theimage13]

The Beautiful People - yeah, huge hit. I feel like it had actually set a chart record at the time, but I could be wrong.
Sweet Dreams - not a Manson song
The Dope Show - Relatively big when it was released, largely because it was the first single off a new album for a hot (at the time) artist. Obsolete now.
Disposable Teens - See above
The Nobodies - I've never heard this song on a radio in my life. 8 year olds know this?
Personal Jesus - Not a Manson song
Tainted Love - Not a Manson song
This Is The New Shit - hardly a hit. Not sure if I ever heard that one on the radio.

I'm not arguing that Manson doesn't have a following - he certainly does. But it's an incredible stretch to call that a list of hits that trumps the mainstream success of NIN in comparison.

[Babali]

Thanks for explaining that those songs Sweet Drums Tasted Lovers and Personal Christian weren't written by the Monsoon. I had no idea Personal Christian was written by some stupid 70's band called Disperse Mod?

By the way, I hear Dope Show and Personal Jesus and Tainted Love on the radio all the time in my area.

And also, a lot of artists get really famous for cover versions of songs and a lot of people argue Manson's covers are better than his actual songs. I'm also saying they're not bigger or better but just more easily recognizable.

"Sir, have you heard of The Beautiful People?" "By Manson?" "Yeah, have you heard The Hand That Feeds?" "...That saying?" "Do you know Personal Jesus?" "Oh that Manson song?" "Do you know Down In It?" "...What?"

[Piko]

Where i'm from, you hear a lot more NIN than you do manson. Usually stuff like Head Like A Hole, The Hand That Feeds, etc. I've even heard Piggy on there before. And I have a friend, and the only song she knows is Coma White... Another friend just knows Beautiful People and Dope Show. Everyone knows Closer. A lot of people know Head Like A Hole, even if it's just the chorus that they remember.

[Babali]

True Head Like A Hole and Closer, those are definitely big songs. I just think Manson has this bland general recognizable quality to him from the controversy he stirred and all the Mansonites and people wearing Manson shirts for years and years and they still have sold lots of Manson shirts in like Hot Topic to this day, a lot more than NIN. And I would just argue that Manson's music is just generally more poppy and accepted than NIN who do some unique and different things.