Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[allegro]

And then someone i respect, here, in this thread, said bipartisanship would return in a future we might live to see.

I think there will be some huge turnaround in Congress, a huge purge that gets rid of the people in there now, and I’m thinking there will be some huge event and movement as the nexus that creates this new bipartisanship that’s ultimately demanded by voters. The LACK of bipartisanship is fostered by Republican voters; a huge bloc of voters do NOT want it. So they require that of their representatives.

Edit: I’m not sure if this will be in my lifetime, though. I’m thinking no. A lot of the old generations have to die, first.




Back to guns:

This Tulsa shooter bought 2 guns before killing his surgeon and 3 nurses. Both guns bought legally, with background checks. One was an AR, purchased 1.5 hours before the shooting; the other bought in May. So clearly premeditated. But, he could have used a revolver. So, ultimately, unfortunately, this just points to how (while I still believe we should stop selling long guns like ARs and AKs), there’s no true “solution” to this issue.

The United States is VIOLENT. It’s citizens settle their issues via guns. We are a sick, violent society.

And I don’t think there’s any solution to that. It’s engrained in our culture for over 200 years.

[cdm]

But, he could have used a revolver. So, ultimately, unfortunately, this just points to how (while I still believe we should stop selling long guns like ARs and AKs), there’s no true “solution” to this issue.

[The royal] We cannot let "he could have used a handgun" or "he could have used a sword" or whatever other implement as an excuse not to ban assault style weapons. There is a reason he used an AR-style and not, say, a revolver.

[allegate]

At least 3 people were killed in a Tulsa, Oklahoma, hospital campus shooting, police say

[allegro]

[The royal] We cannot let "he could have used a handgun" or "he could have used a sword" or whatever other implement as an excuse not to ban assault style weapons. There is a reason he used an AR-style and not, say, a revolver.

I wholeheartedly agree.

But my point was that we should expect SHOOTINGS to continue. Because we suck. We are a society that’s emotionally ignorant and stunted and violent. Banning assault-type weapons (basically weapons with big magazines) helps prevent massive casualties. This guy shot 4 people. Why did he buy an AR? Likely because he didn’t actually know HOW to shoot. Monkeys can shoot and kill people with an AR.

See the McDonalds shooting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_...d%27s_massacre



Look at the list of victims.

That was in 1984.

See the weapons he used. Included an Uzi Carbine. That was 38 years ago. NOTHING has been done except a ban with an EXPIRATION DATE.

Now Republicans are blaming POT for gun violence. Pot doesn’t do this. Wtf.

The Tulsa shooter bought one gun the same day he killed people. Oh, waiting list! But he bought the OTHER gun in May.

Moral of the story? We are living among millions of sociopaths; if we do ONE thing to piss them off, they will find a way to shoot us. And Republicans will help them. Republicans have passed “stand your ground” laws across the country. Republicans have promoted the idea that personal ownership of guns for “protection” extends to “settling issues” and is part of 2A.

Note: That is NOT in 2A. But Republicans and 2A nuts can’t (or won’t) grok a complex sentence.

[allegate]

Moral of the story? We are living among millions of sociopaths; if we do ONE thing to piss them off, they will find a way to shoot us. And Republicans will help them. Republicans have passed “stand your ground” laws across the country. Republicans have promoted the idea that personal ownership of guns for “protection” extends to “settling issues” and is part of 2A.

Note: That is NOT in 2A. But Republicans and 2A nuts can’t (or won’t) grok a complex sentence.

I had never put these thoughts in this order but my oh my that makes a lot of sense.

[elevenism]

Fuuuuuuuuuck me. So I spent ONE day without watching any news, and I'm late to the new Mass Shooting! And ummmm...holy fuck. That's TWO in OK in a week?
@allegro : I hear you when you say we're living among millions of psychopaths.

But do you have any theories on WHY the US is like this? I mean "guns" is the simple and obvious answer.

But there are guns in other countries, too. Yes, the degree of accessibility varies, but 1% motorcycle clubs have shot fucking ROCKET LAUNCHERS at each other in Canada.

I know we have the most guns per capita, but that still doesn't explain everything for me.

Is it that the WORLD is full of psychopaths, and we just happen to have a large population and lots of guns? Is it just that?

I think there's something else...something to do with the American "spirit" or ethos or whatever. But, I can't put my finger on it.

[allegro]

I had never put these thoughts in this order but my oh my that makes a lot of sense.

It’s a very old and ingrained part of our culture: Duels, revenge, it’s in our Westerns, a ton of our movies.

Hell, Vice President Aaron Burr fatally shot his long-time political antagonist Alexander Hamilton.

[elevenism]

It’s a very old and ingrained part of our culture: Duels, revenge, it’s in our Westerns, a ton of our movies.

Hell, Vice President Aaron Burr fatally shot his long-time political antagonist Alexander Hamilton.

Yeah it's almost like we were born in blood: Revolution, civil war, the wild west.

And all that shit has been romanticized.

Not to mention we've got a sort of civil religion surrounding "the soldiers who were sacrificed for your freedom" (no offense to anyone who has served), and THAT adds a bit to it, I think.

Idk. I think about this a lot.

[allegro]

Yeah it's almost like we were born in blood: Revolution, civil war, the wild west.

Look what’s happened to some of our major civic leaders.

Lincoln, JFK, RFK, MLK. An attempted assassination of Reagan. Of course, people have been assassinating world leaders since 2270 BC. Just not with the convenience of guns. Someone shot GANDHI to death.

The 1966 University of Texas Tower shooting. 11 dead, 31 wounded. It’s gone back THAT far.

Mother Jones put together a good database which only goes back to 1982 (does not include UT Bell Tower):

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...nes-full-data/

More good info:
https://everytownresearch.org/maps/m...gs-in-america/

We give toy guns and holsters to KIDS FOR CHRISTMAS.


Edit: I’m watching ABC World News; there have been TWENTY MASS SHOOTINGS since the Uvalde shooting (May 25 - June 1).

Edit: President Biden is speaking on TV. He says that recent CDC stats indicate that guns are the #1 killer of children in the U.S.; more kids have died as the result of guns in this country over the last 20 years than on-duty police officers or active-duty soldiers.

WTF.

[allegate]

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/v3jafj/multiple_people_injured_in_shooting_at_wisconsin/

At the funeral of a gun-violence victim no less! If there was one time you'd think people would be smart enough to not go strapped, you'd think this would be it.

[allegro]

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/v3jafj/multiple_people_injured_in_shooting_at_wisconsin/

At the funeral of a gun-violence victim no less! If there was one time you'd think people would be smart enough to not go strapped, you'd think this would be it.

On the news, here, they say it could be some kind of gang retaliation situation.

The funeral was for a guy who was killed by Racine police two weeks ago.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/racine-of...eland-cemetery

[elevenism]

On the news, here, they say it could be some kind of gang retaliation situation.

The funeral was for a guy who was killed by Racine police two weeks ago.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/racine-of...eland-cemetery

yeah, i figured that was the case.

We're at a point with the whole drill rap/gang war shit that people are buying gun shaped flower arrangements for funerals.

If any of you guys want to see the insanity of the number of lives being lost to this Drill Wars shit, check out Trap Lore Ross' exhaustive youtube documentaries. There's also a great, disturbing doc about a shooter named KI called The Secret Life of a Gang Girl. She was 17, and claimed to have a body for every year of her life. I don't doubt it.
And GUESS WHO APPEARS in that doc- a young, pre fame King Von, (who, if you don't follow this stuff, rose to pop fame before being shot himself, and being succeeded by music and gang affiliate Lil Durk, who is one of today's most popular rappers, with rap equaling pop in the current time frame).

I've never been pro censorship, but this shit is getting out of hand.

Sadly, I think it's about time to start a Mass Shooting of the Day thread.

[mfte]

[Jinsai]

@allegro I thought the shooting at the McDonalds pretty much led directly to the assault weapons ban, which at least went a long way to decrease the ownership of fully automatic weapons.

Regarding the AR-15... Whenever someone is saying that it isn't really any different than [insert gun model here], I'm always hearing it from someone who is really into gun ownership and tends to be a libertarian who doesn't truly give a shit about anything that you're concerned about.
And really, this isn't my field of expertise, so... I guess I'll just trust the gun nuts that there is NOTHING about the AR-15 that makes it special... and then I'll wonder why, if there's equivalent/identical weapons available that are just as good at everything the AR-15 is "good" at, then why the hell do people give such a fuck that it gets taken off shelves? It's been the instrument of death of choice for school/mass shooters for so long, maybe we should shift the argument to "well, it makes us sick to fucking look at it," because if the only thing that they can say about it that differentiates it from other semi-auto guns on the market is that it looks scary, that's enough at this point.

[allegro]

@allegro I thought the shooting at the McDonalds pretty much led directly to the assault weapons ban, which at least went a long way to decrease the ownership of fully automatic weapons.

The McDonald's shooting happened in 1983. The assault weapons ban was part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.

It was prompted by what became known as the Stockton Shooting (1989), at an elementary school in Stockton, CA (killing five schoolchildren and wounding 32 others), and also the Luby's shooting in Kileen, TX in 1991.

The Luby's shooting was a mass shooting that took place on October 16, 1991, at a Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas. The perpetrator, George Hennard, drove his pickup truck through the front window of the restaurant. He shot and killed 23 people, and wounded 27 others. He had a brief shootout with police, refused their orders to surrender, and fatally shot himself.

At the time, the shooting was the deadliest mass shooting by a lone gunman in U.S. history, being surpassed 16 years later by the Virginia Tech shooting

Edit: Also: The ban was for semi-automatic weapons.

Re Fully-automatic weapons were banned in 1986.

However:

Automatic weapons are what many Americans think of as machine guns. These are guns that can continuously fire off a stream of bullets by simply holding down the trigger — making them very deadly. Semiautomatic weapons, by contrast, fire a single bullet per trigger pull. The difference between an automatic and a semiautomatic effectively translates to firing hundreds of rounds a minute versus dozens or so in the same time frame.

Under federal law, fully automatic weapons are technically legal only if made before 1986, when Congress passed the Firearm Owners’ Protection Act. So it’s now illegal to manufacture new automatic weapons for civilian use.

That gets us to the first loophole: If you have an automatic weapon from before 1986, it was grandfathered through the law. So it’s still legal to buy, sell, and exchange these kinds of weapons, including in Nevada, as long as they’re a few decades old — although with some extra hurdles that don’t apply to other types of firearms, such as registering fully automatic guns with the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) and paying a special tax, with the risk of additional penalties if someone doesn’t comply.

There are more than 630,000 of these guns in circulation, according to federal data.

This article goes on the write about bump stocks, but those were banned by the Trump Administration after the Las Vegas mess shooting.

[allegate]

[allegro]

Oh my God.


Here's what I think is most of the speech.




I think this proposal is a GREAT idea, even if modified a little: TAX THE FUCK OUT OF CERTAIN WEAPONS.

Additionally, because the bill would be a revenue measure, it could be introduced through the reconciliation process, which would only require approval from 50 senators, instead of the 60 votes needed to pass most legislation. Only "a simple majority" would be required to get the bill passed, Fritschner added.

[allegate]

Jesus, I cried at the 40 seconds in the tweet so I can't imagine the whole thing.

edit: yeah I'm a hot mess now. yikes.
and that fuck in the back?

[marodi]

For those who did not know, McConaughey was born in Uvalde. Just in case there is someone who thought he should stick to playing bongos naked.

[cdm]

The AR is a symbol and a fetish above all else. It defines so many people and without it they'd feel empty. I wish that were hyperbole but it's not.

[allegate]

funny story: I was at the local bike shop for something and noticed a big ol' "come and take it" flag on a pole in the adjoining lot. I guess the local flagmonger had set up yet another illegal shop and had to leave in a hurry? at any rate I told my wife "i'ma going to take it" and walked over and stripped the fucker down. Had someone come up to me while I was doing it and he said "I'm glad you did that, I was about to."

To be fair this isn't a particularly good story. I'm not saying I was brave - it was an empty lot after all - I just saw the flag and couldn't stand seeing it any longer.

[ickyvicky]

@allegate good for you

[cdm]

funny story: I was at the local bike shop for something and noticed a big ol' "come and take it" flag on a pole in the adjoining lot. I guess the local flagmonger had set up yet another illegal shop and had to leave in a hurry? at any rate I told my wife "i'ma going to take it" and walked over and stripped the fucker down. Had someone come up to me while I was doing it and he said "I'm glad you did that, I was about to."

To be fair this isn't a particularly good story. I'm not saying I was brave - it was an empty lot after all - I just saw the flag and couldn't stand seeing it any longer.

We were on our way to the beach the other week and came across this pro-Trump...display...along the highway. It amounted to an old, beat up RV completely COVERED in Trump paraphernalia parked next to an abandoned gas station with various flags zip-tied to the fencing. Sign said FREE TRUMP MERCHANDISE. What a fucking metaphor, on several levels.

Edit: I just wasted too much time on Streetview looking for it only to find the station was still open when the Google Car last drove by (Nov 2021) however I did come across these two gems:



Can confirm Donny and Melania are still on the sign.

[allegate]

what in the world could the MAGA phrase be turned into in regards to the garden? I'm assuming "Make your garden great again"?

You think about that one too hard your brain hurts. You're telling people they have shit gardens, mate.

[cdm]

what in the world could the MAGA phrase be turned into in regards to the garden? I'm assuming "Make your garden great again"?

You think about that one too hard your brain hurts. You're telling people they have shit gardens, mate.

Oh shit. Good eye.

Please hold.

Edit: Screen Shot 2022-06-08 at 11.02.30 AM.png

Another set of cutouts. WTF.

[ekrekel]

2:44 ~"Shooting an RPG is the ultimate Vegas experience" ~"we sold about 30 of these to civilians in the last few months"

[allegro]

2:44 ~"Shooting an RPG is the ultimate Vegas experience" ~"we sold about 30 of these to civilians in the last few months"

“We have the right to guns, for sporting. And to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government.”

Q: why do you think there’s so many mass shootings.

“Well cause it’s on the agenda of the left.”

NONE of this makes any sense. It’s all total nonsense bullshit.

[Jinsai]

just read a story about a survivor of the shooting who covered herself in her friend's blood and played dead to hide from the shooter.

If that doesn't make the horror of this resonate on some profound, chilling level, there's something wrong with you. It might not be your fault; we've all been conditioned to 'accept' this.
I can't imagine the terror that little child went through and endured. It's hard to even believe that's actually real.

[Swykk]

I read that too and watched her talk about it.

That poor kid will never be the same; will never feel safe again.

I fucking hate these gunnuts so much.

[ekrekel]

One teacher was shot twice through his arm and lung and another through his back, but survived. He told his kids to lay down and pretend to be asleep and he did the same (sounds like that's their protocol). He said him and the kids could hear the cops in the hallway, some kids in the other room spoke up and the shooter heard them. Survivor's guilt there has to be unfathomable, but he was shot twice and couldn't get in front of a camera for almost 2 weeks, it's hard to think he could have done more. The timeline has been out there for a while, but I just can't quit looking at it.

Reyes said students could hear police outside the classroom, and one of them called for help. “One of the students from the next-door classroom was saying, ‘Officer, we’re in here, we’re in here,’” Reyes said. “But they had already left.” The gunmen walked to that classroom and opened fire again, Reyes said. A timeline from Steve McCraw, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, says that seven officers entered the school by 11:35 a.m., just minutes after the gunman entered the building. They took on gunfire and retreated.

At 12:03 p.m., a girl called 911 and whispered that she was in room 112. She called again at 12:10 p.m. and said there were multiple dead. She called again at 12:13 p.m. and then again at 12:16 p.m., when she said there are eight to nine students alive.

At 12:50 p.m., officers opened the door with keys from a school employee and entered the room, killing the gunman, according to McCraw.

She was in there for 32 minutes before getting a chance to dial 911. ~"WTF! we know y'all are here, we can hear you through the freaking wall".

I'm running out of ways to describe how infuriating this all is.