Tool

[theruiner]

Honestly, I'd say a 20+ year old band has more experience dealing with venue jockeys than you do.

"Venue jockeys." How nice. Yeah, they have 20 plus years of experience being douchebags. Good for them.

But I suppose you have a bit of a point. It is an asshole move. But I'm fine with that, they can be assholes to whoever they want as long as they come out on stage and melt my face. I don't think it's much of a surprise that Tool are pricks.

That would work if: A. they actually put on a good show (as opposed to a mediocre one) and B. being a rock star was more important than being a decent human being. Which it's not.

[Harry Seaward]

That would work if: A. they actually put on a good show (as opposed to a mediocre one)

Have your opinions about Tool, sure. But a mediocre show? I'm pretty sure they have a reputation as one of the best live bands for a reason.

B. being a rock star was more important than being a decent human being. Which it's not.

And that's fine with me. I don't care all that much about them, I care about their music. Like I said, be an asshole to whoever you want. Just keep writing music.

[theruiner]

I never said I was going to stop listening to their music. But that doesn't change the fact that they're assholes. And you're saying, "I'm cool with them being assholes as long as they rock" instead of "I still enjoy their music, but that's no excuse for acting the way they do." That's all I'm saying. You don't get a pass because you put on a good show.

As far as the reputation goes, I don't know about that. I've heard some people say they're great, I've heard others say they weren't that great. From personal experience, I've seen them twice and was pretty underwhelmed. I'm sure I'll end up seeing them again, because at the end of the day they're still my second favorite band, and even a show that isn't quite great is better than not seeing them at all.

[Harry Seaward]

What more do you expect out of their live shows?

[theruiner]

Honestly, I couldn't tell you what the missing element was. With the exception of Maynard, they're all at the top of their game. They don't have much energy, but then that doesn't bother me much. They do have good visuals (even if it seems to be the same damn thing every tour). So I can't really put my finger on what it is, but I can just tell you that it left me underwhelmed both times. *shrug* I'm not saying it was bad, just that I wouldn't put it in the category of "great."

[Harry Seaward]

Fair enough. I'm admittedly a giant fanboy. Maybe it's because I only discovered them a few years ago. Either way, I love that I've been able to see them live twice, and the most recent show has surpassed every other show I've seen, by a long shot. That's NIN, Manson, Puscifer, and APC.

[october_midnight]

I love Tool, but isn't this kind of like going in to the GnR thread and attempting to tell Dr. Pepper that they're garbage.

Harry, I've been listening to TOOL for 17 fuckin' years. I'm at the age now that if I hear of ANYONE being a prick to ANYONE....they're a prick. And it DOES have an effect on my feeling of their music. I've seen them live 8 times now and the shows now don't even pale in comparison to the older ones. It's not even in the same ballpark. Their shows now are borderline yawnfests.

[botley]

How about this: you weren't there at the meeting in question, so you don't know what really happened (though apparently neither did this cunt, by the sound of things; "organ player" el oh el) and you're fishing for something else to complain about because you felt disappointed by the show they put on that you paid to see. I've worked part-time as a security guard/usher at Toronto venues for almost ten years. I have seen just about everything the live music industry has to offer from that side of the business, from Yo-Yo Ma to Gwar. If you're not in control of the crowd, or at least making an effort to enforce the rules that the promoter/artist puts in place, you are NOT DOING YOUR JOB. In which case, yes, you should be fired (ie. sent home until the next time a venue/temp company calls you for a shift). And good luck getting another shift if the next thing you do is turn around and write a bitchy letter-to-the-editor about it.

[Wretchedest]

I love Tool, but isn't this kind of like going in to the GnR thread and attempting to tell Dr. Pepper that they're garbage.

I don't think so.... I actually really like Tool. I'm not their biggest fan, but I think their music is great. I saw that article in a paper that doesn't get any distribution outside of one small street in Monterey County (I think I'm the only one from Monterey on the board...), I thought you guys would find the article kind of amusing, and maybe even insightful...

I DO think they're a bunch of douchebags though, I've thought that before I read this article...

Also I've worked the video end of gigs before. If I was working for a band like Tool, like I have many great bands, I would be pretty excited. Very eager to work with them, but when they are harsh like that it really kills your spirit. I've been lucky to have the big guys be very nice and appreciative of my work, and it gave me more respect for them and it made me want to be better at my job.

[Harry Seaward]

Harry, I've been listening to TOOL for 17 fuckin' years. I'm at the age now that if I hear of ANYONE being a prick to ANYONE....they're a prick. And it DOES have an effect on my feeling of their music. I've seen them live 8 times now and the shows now don't even pale in comparison to the older ones. It's not even in the same ballpark. Their shows now are borderline yawnfests.

I already conceded that they were pricks. If being a prick changes your view of the music, that's your prerogative. Personally, I don't care.

And you've been going to TOOL shows since I was 3 years old. Maybe the new shows are 'yawnfests', but the show last Saturday was one of the best nights of my life. If that is a 'yawnfest', I'd love to be able to see them in 1995. But that's kinda impossible now, eh?

[theruiner]

How about this: you weren't there at the meeting in question, so you don't know what really happened (though apparently neither did this cunt, by the sound of things; "organ player" el oh el) and you're fishing for something else to complain about because you felt disappointed by the show they put on that you paid to see.

How about this: don't make assumptions about my motivations, especially because you are completely and utterly wrong about them.

Secondly, if you'd actually READ what I wrote, you would have seen that I said "if that IS what happened." I never said for sure. But we used that situation, basically hypothetically, to talk about whether or not that type of behavior is ok.

I've worked part-time as a security guard/usher at Toronto venues for almost ten years. I have seen just about everything the live music industry has to offer from that side of the business, from Yo-Yo Ma to Gwar. If you're not in control of the crowd, or at least making an effort to enforce the rules that the promoter/artist puts in place, you are NOT DOING YOUR JOB. In which case, yes, you should be fired (ie. sent home until the next time a venue/temp company calls you for a shift).

I think there's something to be said for controlling the crowd, but I also think we're in a very different time than we were 20 years ago. You can't control everybody with a cell phone camera and to me a band coming in and threatening to fire people does sound like them trying to scare people with the power they have. Still sounds to me like they were being pricks (if that is what happened.)

[aggroculture]

If you work with Tool they will make problems for you, it's how they roll. I've interviewed them twice for magazine articles, and there was a bunch of agonizing wrangling and demands on their part beforehand. The best strategy is to recognize that this is how they work and try to make the best of things. They like to operate a tight ship, and have a hands-on approach: this control-freakery is merely the flipside of their success. Tool has not made the great art they have by delegating decisions to underlings and going with the flow, but by doing things their way. So yes, it's annoying, fascistic at times even, but we probably wouldn't have Tool as they are without the douchery.

[Harry Seaward]

If you work with Tool they will make problems for you, it's how they roll. I've interviewed them twice for magazine articles, and there was a bunch of agonizing wrangling and demands on their part beforehand. The best strategy is to recognize that this is how they work and try to make the best of things. They like to operate a tight ship, and have a hands-on approach: this control-freakery is merely the flipside of their success. Tool has not made the great art they have by delegating decisions to underlings and going with the flow, but by doing things their way. So yes, it's annoying, fascistic at times even, but we probably wouldn't have Tool as they are without the douchery.

Where can a guy check these interviews out?

[botley]

How about this: don't make assumptions about my motivations, especially because you are completely and utterly wrong about them.

Cool your jets, hombre, I didn't assume anything. It was an equally hypothetical statement. There's just a little bit too much overreaction and bandwagon-hopping going on in here.

I think there's something to be said for controlling the crowd, but I also think we're in a very different time than we were 20 years ago. You can't control everybody with a cell phone camera and to me a band coming in and threatening to fire people does sound them trying to scare people with the power they have. Still sounds to me like they were being pricks (if that is what happened.)

Let me tell you a story. It's a true story. It actually happened. I worked as a security guard at the 2006 Tool show in the outdoor Molson Amphitheatre. Throughout the opening band, I was stuck on patrol stationed practically in the parking lot. Totally bummed. I love Tool and would have killed to be stationed inside the venue itself.

Now, the tradeoff with being stationed inside the venue is that (depending on how much the band/promoter are sticklers for protocol) you're not supposed to watch the show because it looks bad for the security guards to be watching the stage instead of the crowd, whom they're being paid to watch. You're not being paid to watch the show.

SOOO, it turns out that Tool are sticklers. Assholes, I have no idea, because I never met them (furthermore it'd be fucking ridiculous for a band of Tool's stature to meet the ushers/security staff at each show let alone personally threaten them). How do I know they're sticklers? Because RIGHT BEFORE they went onstage my supervisor moved me up into the venue. Into the gap between the stage and pit. Right in front of Adam Jones. And my supervisor told me, "if you look up at the stage, if you turn around at all, you're going home."

So I stared at the crowd (and the laser show going on over my head). Better than not getting to hear the show at all.

[aggroculture]

Where can a guy check these interviews out?

PM. [justifiable paranoia]

[JessicaSarahS]

I don't understand the strict no camera policies that they have. What is a shitty cellphone picture (or a relatively decent one? ) going to do? Tool shows aren't exactly delicately intricate where any movement will detract from the stage show. It's not the ballet! If there are any subtle complexities, it typically exists in the music instrumentation itself, and a camera will not interfere with that. I wish they'd loosen up their grip on that aspect.

However, I do appreciate that they try to keep the douchebaggery of the audience under control and let people watch without being in fear of bodily harm or not being able to see the show. As a short person, the sitting is appreciated. The last show I went to was the Sacramento show. They let us stand up in the stands/stadium seating, but the floor seating had to sit. Made sense to me.

[Frozen Beach]

I thought everyone knew that Tool are a group of assholes? Good musicians, but yes, the members can be quite the dicks. One of my friend's friends tried to get Adam's autograph after a show one time, and Adam told him to fuck off. So yeah, they've got problems, but as long as they aren't going around causing insane problems with people, I don't see the big deal.

Also, I'm willing the bet money that the whole "You'll be fired" thing was just a scare tactic to get security to do their best.

[Harry Seaward]

Tonight in Dallas, they switched out Spoiler: Ticks for Spoiler: Sober, and Spoiler: The Pot for Spoiler: Parabol/Parabola.

Lucky fucks.

[theruiner]

Holy crap! Now THAT I would like to see.

[Harry Seaward]

Entire setlist for Dallas, Jan 20:

Spoiler:
Hooker With A Penis
Jambi
Stinkfist
Sober
Pushit
Schism (Extended Intro)
Intension
Forty Six & 2
Lateralus
Parabol/Parabola
Aenema

Sounds like a rad time.

[theruiner]

That setlist is almost perfect. That's just insane.

[Harry Seaward]

I wonder what the second night of Dallas has in store.

[theruiner]

If they play Spoiler: "The Grudge,"* I'm going to kill myself.



*=I know that looks weird, but I figure, if you don't want the setlist spoiled, you probably don't want to know what they haven't played, either, so it'll be a complete surprise. Thus the spoiler tags.

[JessicaSarahS]

Entire setlist for Dallas, Jan 20:

Spoiler:
Hooker With A Penis
Jambi
Stinkfist
Sober
Pushit
Schism (Extended Intro)
Intension
Forty Six & 2
Lateralus
Parabol/Parabola
Aenema

Sounds like a rad time.

So jealous.

[theruiner]

In contrast to Tool allegedly being dicks, here's a nice video of the guys throwing oranges at fans (they were autographed).

[Harry Seaward]

Go back a few pages and you'll see my recap of the encounter I had with TOOL on Saturday. Danny, Justin, and Adam were all super cool to us fans. Shook hands, chatted for a bit, and signed posters. Justin took pictures with whoever asked. They're not always that bad.

[JessicaSarahS]

Go back a few pages and you'll see my recap of the encounter I had with TOOL on Saturday. Danny, Justin, and Adam were all super cool to us fans. Shook hands, chatted for a bit, and signed posters. Justin took pictures with whoever asked. They're not always that bad.

Yeah, Danny, Justin and Adam are usually pretty cool meeting people after shows lately. That was a nice recap, btw! Thanks for sharing.

[RJK]

Entire setlist for Dallas, Jan 20:

Spoiler:
Hooker With A Penis
Jambi
Stinkfist
Sober
Pushit
Schism (Extended Intro)
Intension
Forty Six & 2
Lateralus
Parabol/Parabola
Aenema

Sounds like a rad time.

I wonder if this is a one off setlist change because they are playing Dallas twice or if they gave up on those two songs.

[gerbil]

Jesus you all need to chill the fuck out.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Jesus you all need to chill the fuck out.

Awesome first post, bro!

Cool setlist for Dallas last night, almost makes me wish I had taken the time off to go to the shows this weekend. I really wonder how they'll be able to top it again.