Tool

[Leviathant]

i like a few tracks here and there from their later records, but im not really into metal, i dont really understand why so many NIN fans like them, they sound NOTHING alike

Variety is the spice of life! I don't know if I like any other band that sounds like NIN. There are one or two Dillinger Escape Plan songs in my collection that probably come closest to sounding like NIN, I guess.

For me, it's the orchestration and complexity of the music. It's different enough to be interesting without playing "count out loud to follow along" (unlike a lot of Dillinger Escape Plan, for example). I like the production, and thematically, the lyrics generally express disappointment, in both self and other - something very much in common with Nine Inch Nails. Aenima in particular has a pretty strong "fuck everything" theme. Both have vague reflections on personal relationships. Both have put in more-than-usual effort at packaging their music, whether through physical packaging, or through the medium of video - although both also peaked in the late 90s on that front. Both bands produce music that benefits greatly from listening on a fantastic pair of headphones, and from playing through loudspeakers, loudly.

10,000 Days fell flat for me. Didn't like the production, I didn't connect with the lyrics, the stoner humor felt forced, the "heavy" bits felt forced, the pseudo-mystic "Lipan conjuring" is tonedeaf appropriative exoticism, but worst of all, worst of all... there's that dubbed-in thunderstorm. I can't get over that, I'm sorry. And some songs just went on for too long IMHO. When it first came out, I made an edit that I dubbed "8,000 Days", which I burned to CD and listened to, but never ended up ripping to MP3.

But I still listen to Lateralus, Aenima, Undertow, and parts of Salival, and I'm still looking forward to hearing new stuff. From a production standpoint, I think Lateralus sits at the top of the pile. Overall, for me, it's a tie between Lateralus and Aenima. I like that Aenima is less self-serious, but I also like that Lateralus isn't jokey until the very end. Unlike NIN, Tool seems to iterate on the same sound, rather than pushing new boundaries in their sound. They spend more time on virtuosity than sonic repertoire. Same ingredients, new recipes - and that's fine. I listened to a lot of Cake for similar reasons, and they're even less like NIN.

They are good live! It's a shame about having to interact with the fanbase though.

[BenAkenobi]

I mean, I've always thought it's supposed to sound a little dirty so we likely have different standards for the word "great."

Well, it's only in Eulogy and bits of Hooker that felt slightly off, so no big deal. And it was lossy stream too, all good!

[botley]

^ Yeah these albums are all mastered close to the 0dBFS limit, which means on Spotify it is probably going to sound distinctly more distorted in the loud parts. Apple Music and/or Tidal HiFi is the way to go, if you aren't going to listen to a CD or the hi-res downloads.

I'll echo everything @Leviathant said, except that 10,000 Days has won me over a bit more since it first came out... particularly the excellent "Intension", which was amazing to see live in 2012 (even that seems like a lifetime ago) with Adam's added synth part. Still bummed out that I missed their Spring 2006 theatre tour, where "Right in Two" was getting regular rotation. I think it's been rarely played since then. They just teased the intro in 2012 before slamming into "46 & 2" instead.

[allegate]

the only thing i still like from this band is Undertow, an unusual metal record with weird production from 1993. that oddly became a multi million seller. it still sounds great, unsettling i like how weird it sounds.

i like a few tracks here and there from their later records, but im not really into metal, i dont really understand why so many NIN fans like them, they sound NOTHING alike

they are good live though.

[Amaro]

...i dont really understand why so many NIN fans like them, they sound NOTHING alike

Probably because both bands rose to peak popularity in the 90s and both leaned towards a loud and dark sound. About as simple as that.

[pulse]

^ Yeah these albums are all mastered close to the 0dBFS limit, which means on Spotify it is probably going to sound distinctly more distorted in the loud parts. Apple Music and/or Tidal HiFi is the way to go, if you aren't going to listen to a CD or the hi-res downloads.

Huh? Spotify 320k ogg vorbis is about as close to lossless as you're going to get without switching to a FLAC/ALAC/DTS-HD/ETC lossless compression. I do turn off audio normalization and I honestly can't tell a difference between it and the 24 bit FLACs on my portable and Sennheisers. I got the 24 / 96 masters because I will utilize them on my livingroom Oppo DAC, and perhaps I will hear a difference there. But no need to pick on Spotify, their premium setting is perfectly fine for streaming or a mobile application.

[botley]

Huh? Spotify 320k ogg vorbis is about as close to lossless as you're going to get without switching to a FLAC/ALAC/DTS-HD/ETC lossless compression. I do turn off audio normalization and I honestly can't tell a difference between it and the 24 bit FLACs on my portable and Sennheisers. I got the 24 / 96 masters because I will utilize them on my livingroom Oppo DAC, and perhaps I will hear a difference there. But no need to pick on Spotify, their premium setting is perfectly fine for streaming or a mobile application.

It's good, but with 0.1 dB of headroom below full scale on these masters, there are going to be peaks over the limit with any lossy compression. Whether that causes your system to clip on playback, or whether it's even audible in the scenario you have, is another question. Mastered for iTunes or lossless playback over Tidal is designed to never clip.

[pulse]

It's good, but with 0.1 dB of headroom below full scale on these masters, there are going to be peaks over the limit with any lossy compression. Whether that causes your system to clip on playback, or whether it's even audible in the scenario you have, is another question. Mastered for iTunes or lossless playback over Tidal is designed to never clip.

Fair enough, but in a practical world, most people aren't going to be streaming lossless audio on their portable DACs. There is still a real need to have lossy compression. Personally love Spotify because of its combination of convenience and sound quality in the streaming format. I've slung a ridiculous amount of money into an audiophile obsession myself, but there is little need to berade any particular service compared to 24 bit masters or even CDs. Trust me, I spent years building a 24 bit and DSD digital collection, or at least the best Redbook masters if that was all that was available. However, it's simply an end to a means for what service best fits your daily life. I am the first to admit I use Spotify more than anything else these days. I do wish they would allow a premium lossless option for streaming, but the 320k OV gets the job done.

[Krazy]

Probably because both bands rose to peak popularity in the 90s and both leaned towards a loud and dark sound. About as simple as that.

I’d agree with this, along with some of Leviathan’s points. While bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam are kind of the poster children for early ‘90’s alt-Rock, NIN and Tool were a bit more... “experimental” than many of their counterparts who were a typical 4 or 5 piece rock band from a certain time. Also both bands live production over the years are some serious eye candy that most other bands from that era can’t get right when they try. Not sure how much that really factors into this, but in-person conversations over the years usually only start and end with these two bands. (That’s changed over time as concert production has kind of stagnated over the years- every band now has LED screens and lasers)

[neorev]

I think Spotify sounds like crap. I prefer Tidal, but honestly hate streaming since it doesn't support artists. Here is a great video of mixing/mastering specialist conparing different streaming services and all the audible information that is lost with their compression. Apple Music and YouTube Music don't do too well. Spotify also has issues, but there's negligible difference in their low and high quality. Tidal is not perfect, but the closest to the original master you can get.

[botley]

Hey man, @pulse , you do you. Maybe I'm just sensitive to clipping, but I can't tolerate the sound of it. Like someone eating the microphone... in polite society, it's simply not done.

[Demogorgon]

I really, really dislike clipping, but i also dislike having to compromise on bitrate. All streaming services compromise on bitrate, and iTunes files aren't even close to lossless. It's a no-win situation.

[ZeroSum]

The NIN/Tool connection has always been kind of weird to me, too; it mostly boils down to both bands favoring a loud, dark, and heavy sound throughout the 90s. They both come off as edgier than their contemporaries, and lyrically, both bands favor a style that is vague, but also very directed. I've always kind of lumped Tool, NIN, Smashing Pumpkins, and Radiohead into the same category for these reasons-- Radiohead fitting the least comfortably in those confines, but these four bands really directed the development of my tastes around my mid to late teens, and I got into them all during the same summer, in which music really "clicked" for me. I guess I've always felt that these bands have more cultural visibility than most bands that are willing to experiment, to be weird and different, to sometimes drastically change their sound but remain the same band all the same. Combining these bands leads to some really interesting lineages, too, though -- like I can pinpoint that a combination of elements in SP and NIN led me to really start digging The Cure and Depeche Mode, for example, While Tool + NIN got me into liking stuff like Helmet and Deftones, and even King Crimson.

Anyway, that's obviously a bit of a digression, but listening to tool these past couple days has been fantastic. Their presence on these streaming services somehow makes these platforms feel more legitimate, more real. I know how pretentious and ridiculous that sounds, but now there really aren't any bands I have to go out of my way to listen to. King Crimson getting on streaming services helped this matter as well. I'm really pumped for the new album. As long as it's better than 10,000 Days, I'll be really happy. I agree with everything an above poster said; it's actually kind of crazy how weak that album sounds compared to the first three, and even Opiate. It sounds like a band knows it ran out of ideas, and trying to trick people into thinking it still had some. It's just a lazy, forced feeling record, that often does sound good just thanks to the recording process and chemistry tool has as a band. I've always felt like it would have been better as an EP with like, Vicarious, Jambi, The Pot, and like, a shortened, consolidated version of Wings for Marie/10,000 days. But to end on a positive note, I think I've also been sleeping on Undertow. that record sounds incredible still. Can't wait to pick apart the new one, regardless of quality.

[neorev]

I really, really dislike clipping, but i also dislike having to compromise on bitrate. All streaming services compromise on bitrate, and iTunes files aren't even close to lossless. It's a no-win situation.

Well, Tidal has lossless streaming and Qobuz also has a lossless/hi-res streaming. When it comes to streaming and audio quality, these are your 2 best options. But personally, I much prefer digital downloads or a physical copy.

[Demogorgon]

Considering that probably 3/4's of 10,000 Days is about Maynard's mother and the feelings he had while dealing with her death, i think the album makes perfect sense. The title alone is a distinct reference: 10,000 is (roughly) the number of days she was paralyzed before she died. And her name was Judith Marie, again referenced by lyrics and the tracks Wings For Marie.

[Erneuert]

Considering that probably 3/4's of 10,000 Days is about Maynard's mother and the feelings he had while dealing with her death, i think the album makes perfect sense. The title alone is a distinct reference: 10,000 is (roughly) the number of days she was paralyzed before she died. And her name was Judith Marie, again referenced by lyrics and the tracks Wings For Marie.

Was that intentional though? Maynard said the title refers to the whole Saturn return concept.

[Demogorgon]

Was that intentional though? Maynard said the title refers to the whole Saturn return concept.

The Saturn thing was a troll, typical Maynard being Maynard, basically.

[chris]

Tool get every album in iTunes top ten in a single day

https://www.altpress.com/news/tool-a...-top-10-chart/

[Erneuert]

The Saturn thing was a troll, typical Maynard being Maynard, basically.

Really? It’s on the wiki page as fact, lol.

[theimage13]

Really? It’s on the wiki page as fact, lol.

Please don't ever use "wiki" and "fact" when referring to the same thing.

[Demogorgon]

Really? It’s on the wiki page as fact, lol.

That happens a lot with things that Maynard says, because it can't be verified beyond "Maynard said it, so it must be true".

[Kodiak33]

The Grudge definitely has that theme, I've never heard about 10000 Days.

[gerbil]

I’ve always kind of seen “10,000 Days” as being about Maynard’s mother but also kind of a wider scope of “You have this life what are you going to do with it?”


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[Erneuert]

The Grudge definitely has that theme, I've never heard about 10000 Days.

copypasta for you:

The title 10,000 Days refers to roughly the orbital period of the planet Saturn (actual time period is 10,759 days), which adds up to nearly 29 years and marks, according to Keenan, "the time when you are presented the opportunity to transform from whatever your hang-ups were before to let the light of knowledge and experience lighten your load, so to speak, and let go of old patterns and embrace a new life." Keenan expected that the songs composed would "chronicle that process, hoping that my gift back would be to share that path and hope that I could help somebody get past that spot."^[5] It is rumoured that the album is a reference to Maynard James Keenan's mother who was paralyzed for 10,000 days (27 years) before she died.^[6]

[gerbil]

copypasta for you:

The title 10,000 Days refers to roughly the orbital period of the planet Saturn (actual time period is 10,759 days), which adds up to nearly 29 years and marks, according to Keenan, "the time when you are presented the opportunity to transform from whatever your hang-ups were before to let the light of knowledge and experience lighten your load, so to speak, and let go of old patterns and embrace a new life." Keenan expected that the songs composed would "chronicle that process, hoping that my gift back would be to share that path and hope that I could help somebody get past that spot."^[5] It is rumoured that the album is a reference to Maynard James Keenan's mother who was paralyzed for 10,000 days (27 years) before she died.^[6]

So it’s both.


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[Demogorgon]

So it’s both.


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Can you honestly read that quote from Maynard and really believe it is anything but utter bullshit regardless of whether the information is factual or not?

[Mr. Blaileen]

*pops head in*

Still no single, huh?


...As you were.

*closes door*

[gerbil]

Can you honestly read that quote from Maynard and really believe it is anything but utter bullshit regardless of whether the information is factual or not?

To be honest, yeah. Some interviews with him are surprisingly deep and steeped in mythology and numerology. He’s not dumb by any means. He’s sarcastic as fuck, for sure. But he does this thing where he refers to some things as “hippie ideas” while talking about more grounded things. He does it in the Blood Into Wine documentary when he talks about grapes and I’ve heard it in other interviews. I don’t wanna say it’s a defense mechanism but it kinda seems like a defense mechanism.


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[Demogorgon]

Oh, i don't doubt at all that he's a smart guy. I think he is a lot more grounded than he gives off in these interviews though, and i really feel like most of this mystical "hippie ideas" stuff is canned and prepared to give that aura of mystery and being kind of "out there". I mean, neither of us will ever really know for sure who's right, but, i lean far more towards him playing up Maynard the character rather than Maynard the person.

[elevenism]

(If the thread gets active enough to warrant the subforum, we'll reinstate it then)

This was a LONG time ago, this quote.
It comes, from, what... the first WEEK of the new board? sO much has changed.

So, I'm wondering if it still stands, @Leviathant , what you said in 2011. I'm thinking that ETS will likely experience more discussions regarding Tool, than NIN, this fall