What's this concert footage? (UPDATE: It's Further Down the Spiral, and IT'S HERE!)

[nooneimportant]

In fact, those shows, back then...they felt DANGEROUS, and even vaguely frightening. You guys know what i mean, i'm sure.

For a long time I've heard old NIN shows described as this and I wasn't able to really digest that until this video came out. I totally get it now. I am mostly desensitized to alot of stuff these days and thanks to YouTube I've see Kurt Cobain derail shows while high, I've seen GG Allin toss his turds at the audience, I've seen Mike Patton take a piss on stage, but none of that compared to the energy and chaos NIN had going on in this show. Everyone on stage is buggin out and it's incredible to watch and also was sort of worrying at times. It felt Trent was gonna shoryuken Danny or Robin at any moment. It's times like this where I wish I was a teenager or adult in the 90's and not a toddler but hey what can you do?

[elevenism]

...It felt Trent was gonna shoryuken Danny or Robin at any moment...

Lolz. I'm dead.

But yeah, I always tell younger people that the chaos is the only thing they missed out on.
I mean, I'd argue that NIN was a already a much better band on a technical level by 2000, and continued to improve. They were also FAR more multifaceted after TF.

I'll admit, though: that chaos damn sure was something to witness, especially coupled with the fact that we didn't KNOW a whole hell of a lot about NIN back then. Shit, I thought his name was Trent Renzor for a hot minute. So it was these records, and the rare interview, and then, you know, what you see in the vid.

I'd sure trade you my 90s nin/tool/etc experiences to be ten years younger, though.

[ninja77]

Lolz. I'm dead.

But yeah, I always tell younger people that that chaos is the only thing they missed out on.
I mean, I'd argue that NIN was a already a much better band on a technical level by 2000, and continued to improve. They were also FAR more multifaceted after TF.

I'll admit, though: that chaos damn sure was something to witness, especially coupled with the fact that we didn't KNOW a whole hell of a lot about NIN back then. Shit, I thought his name was Trent Renzor for a hot minute. So it was these records, and the rare interview, and then, you know, what you see in the vid.

I'd sure trade you my 90s nin/tool/etc experiences to be ten years younger, though.

Anyone who's paid attention to NIN's development over the years surely has noticed their progress from the chaos of the nineties shows to a more polished and more diverse live experience, as has been said by elevenism and other previous commenters. Trent's attitude to the music changed, and there was a lot less emphasis on smashing things - especially since they started bringing more expensive equipment onstage. Back in the day, they kept the computers and sequencers offstage and just used those well banged-up DX7s as midi controllers and objects to dry hump onstage.

Certainly not gatekeeping here, but I wonder if some of the chaos from an audience level was brought on by NIN's much, much higher level of popularity and visibility in the mainstream media of the time. Trent and company stoked it by their onstage antics, but the audience appears to have been a big factor as well.

In '94 and '95, NIN were all over MTV, sold "The Downward Spiral" to people who ignored everything that came out afterward, and after Woodstock '94, David Letterman was talking about them on the show for a week. I mean, they toured almost non stop for a year and hit many metro areas two or three times in that period. I'm almost certain some people heard from their friends what a literal riot the NIN show was, and when NIN came back to town later on that year, they probably sold tickets to a lot of casual fans who were there for the party but jumped off the bandwagon after 1996. Tickets to NIN's shows were around the $20 level back then, which even for the time was a more attractive price point to a more casual fan than, say, the then unheard of $100 the Eagles were charging for their "Hell Freezes Over" tour. Not that these bands would attract the same audience anyway...

[elevenism]

Anyone who's paid attention to NIN's development over the years surely has noticed their progress from the chaos of the nineties shows to a more polished and more diverse live experience, as has been said by elevenism and other previous commenters. Trent's attitude to the music changed, and there was a lot less emphasis on smashing things - especially since they started bringing more expensive equipment onstage. Back in the day, they kept the computers and sequencers offstage and just used those well banged-up DX7s as midi controllers and objects to dry hump onstage.

Certainly not gatekeeping here, but I wonder if some of the chaos from an audience level was brought on by NIN's much, much higher level of popularity and visibility in the mainstream media of the time. Trent and company stoked it by their onstage antics, but the audience appears to have been a big factor as well.

In '94 and '95, NIN were all over MTV, sold "The Downward Spiral" to people who ignored everything that came out afterward, and after Woodstock '94, David Letterman was talking about them on the show for a week. I mean, they toured almost non stop for a year and hit many metro areas two or three times in that period. I'm almost certain some people heard from their friends what a literal riot the NIN show was, and when NIN came back to town later on that year, they probably sold tickets to a lot of casual fans who were there for the party but jumped off the bandwagon after 1996. Tickets to NIN's shows were around the $20 level back then, which even for the time was a more attractive price point to a more casual fan than, say, the then unheard of $100 the Eagles were charging for their "Hell Freezes Over" tour. Not that these bands would attract the same audience anyway...

Good points.

From what i understand, Trent and co were breaking shit and the like, pretty much first rattle out of the box. I'm sure this created a certain reputation.
And i'm sure you're not wrong about the circling back to cities and presence of bandwagon fans there to see and participate in the FDTS freakshow, if you will.

But i'm not so sure it was an "act crazy because i heard it's crazy" sort of thing on the crowd's part.

I see it a bit more like this: i think what might have been an even bigger motivation for the chaos in the audience was the sort of people with whom that music resonated: especially Broken and TDS. That crowd was YOUNG...hell, i was 14 in 94 and my lil bro was 12.
We (edit: much of the audience) were angry, angsty disaffected youths, experiencing music that truly reflected our feelings, for the first time.
And the insanity onstage is tacit permission to go buck ass wild, in a sort of communal catharsis, right?
I mean, that's how the energy exchange works at a show and why people don't mosh at Tori Amos gigs.
Ever watch a Ghostemane set on youtube? Same shit.

Then there's the popularity aspect. NOW, admittedly, this is just MY city, but they went from playing a club in may of 94, to an all ages joint with a capacity of 8,000 before the end of the year. THAT'S the mid nineties media blow up/visibility right there. What happened in between? Woodstock 94, and Closer climbing the charts to damn near top 40 status..
BUT, here's the thing: when they came back in 2000, they played a place with a capacity of 15,000.
In 05, it was 20k, at the place where the Mavs currently play. Same in 08 for LITS.

So maybe they weren't as visible, yet the venues grew. Younger fans were finally big enough to go, and Hurt had become a big ass hit, and there were MORE casual fans.

But a LOT of the people at, say, LiTS were the same kids from FDTS, now 14 years older. I know that was the case for me. I remember being stunned at LiTS, watching nicely dressed couples file in and sit politely in their seats.
So basically, i think it's maybe that the band grew, and grew up, and perhaps their fan base did, too.

Edit: just, for the record, weren't most shows about $20 in those days? Seems like i generally had a 20 for ticket and a 20 for a shirt, as long as i'd done all my homework :P

[Kyle]

For a long time I've heard old NIN shows described as this and I wasn't able to really digest that until this video came out. I totally get it now. I am mostly desensitized to alot of stuff these days and thanks to YouTube I've see Kurt Cobain derail shows while high, I've seen GG Allin toss his turds at the audience, I've seen Mike Patton take a piss on stage, but none of that compared to the energy and chaos NIN had going on in this show. Everyone on stage is buggin out and it's incredible to watch and also was sort of worrying at times. It felt Trent was gonna shoryuken Danny or Robin at any moment. It's times like this where I wish I was a teenager or adult in the 90's and not a toddler but hey what can you do?

What is especially crazy about these shows was that it was every night. It wasn’t “that show where Trent was out of his mind and…” it was every day. The details change. One day, he might pick Danny up and throw him, the next he might try to bite his face off, but the insanity was every single show and right from the start. I honestly thought the show was over after Happiness in Slavery because he destroyed everything, walked off stage and grabbed more keyboards just to destroy, and then a curtain dropped (for the film, but I didn’t know that). I was torn between mad it was so short and in awe that it was so good. And that was after opening acts of Marilyn Manson getting naked and fucking the keyboard, and Mr Lifto swinging cinder blocks from his nipples. To this day, I haven’t seen a concert equally insane. I’m glad he’s healthy now because if he continued down that road, he would be dead right now, but I would also be lying if I pretended that wouldn’t be one of the first places I would go if I had a time machine

[ninja77]

I've only skimmed through the thing, but is that a piece of the wood from the floor, near the end credits?
That very well COULD be from the Dallas show where the floor was torn up, and people used the wood to throw other people in the fucking air, and then had "moshing on ice," as @Kyle mentioned.

Keyboard fucking DID occur at 95 Dallas, but as someone else pointed out, that's likely not the only time that happened.

The bit with the guy being thrown out though: it's been almost 25 fucking years since i've been there, but...WERE the corridors/entrance/exits of the Fair Park Dog Show building all white like that?
I was just about to say they WEREN'T, but then, i have a memory of a memory of seeing Tool at that same venue, 3 years later, (where the melvins were incidentally booed offstage once again), and i DO remember the entrance being white.

I will say this much: it SURE fucking LOOKS familiar. And even if only PART of it is from that show...holy fuck. It's pro shot footage of an NIN show i saw as a HS freshman, a few weeks before my fifteenth birthday.

And, of course, no matter WHERE it's from, this is unreal.
There was just this certain aura of sheer...idk, like a metaphysical patchwork vitriol and despair surrounding live NIN back then.
In fact, those shows...they felt DANGEROUS, and even vaguely frightening. You guys know what i mean, i'm sure.

I still can't believe this is real. Thank you SO much.
This community never ceases to amaze me: the Mofoboy25 rehearsal tapes, the Coil thing, THIS insanity: just, all of it.

If you can imagine the venue looking familiar, just imagine watching the film and seeing a 27-years younger version of yourself in the audience. What a trip that would be!

I'm happy for Trent that he didn't become a casualty of his own chaos and totally burn out young, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed that they had quit playing "Happiness In Slavery" and smashing shit by the time I got to see them on the "Fragility" tour in 2000. It was a different vibe than I had expected to see, but it was my #1 concertgoing experience until that was surpassed by NIN coming to Green Bay, WI on Valentine's Day of 2006. THAT is still my number one show ever. Aaron North brought a little of the 90s vibe back - he used to try to shove his guitar headstock through his amplifier cabinets at the end of the show, but it certainly wasn't the same element of danger as the "Self Destruct" era.

[simonn]

Just rediscovered this thread today - and had entirely forgotten about the chances of this happening, so, amazing times! Just watched the whole thing on a big screen, and was grinning from ear to ear for most of it. My wife woke up, came downstairs and had to pass me cushions to tap/bang on as I was drumming away on my legs and chest and annoying her (I had it on bluetooth headphones so it was isolated noise in an otherwise quiet room). Not sure she quite grasped the enormity of this in my life! At times actually Trent did remind me of a young Mike Patton when he first joined FNM - absolute whirling dervish of energy.

End credits (details awaited) made me chuckle, obviously this was pre-shelving!

Anyway, massive thanks to everyone who's had any involvement in getting this out there, and in particular to the OP who had the nouse to get a copy back in the day! You're all legends!

[sweeterthan]

my first nin show was the atlanta date on this tour. i was 16 and only allowed to go with my redneck boyfriend. we were in the pit and i remember getting so squished a few times, it felt like my feet weren’t touching the floor. i also remember trent hurling the mic stand a couple times towards vrenna. it definitely felt unpredictable and fast. that trent is gone. that’s good for obvious reasons but that chaotic energy came from him. he is so much more reserved and controlled now. i love our modern live nin shows but this was different and it was that way because he was different. i love that we have this video. it’s a time capsule of a vintage era that we won’t experience like that again.

[Disassociative]

There’s definitely a different vibe to these mid 90s shows. Sort of a raw chaos while the Fragility shows had a bit more a desperation behind Trent’s energy. He seems more lost while here he just seems out of his mind haha

I’m glad he’s in a better place now mentally and he pulled through his wild years.

[FernandoDante]

Hi, I remember following this thread like 9 years ago and hoping this thing would come out. Then it actually does and I’m not here. Is it gone forever? Where can I watch it? I didn’t see anything about this on the hotline, what the hell.

[buzburbank]

In case there was still any lingering doubt, Omaha 100% confirmed. @37:30, you can see the police officer escorting the individual out the front entrance into the lobby of the old Civic Auditorium (RIP). The patch on his right jacket sleeve consists of a large gold bison in profile over a light blue banner. One version of the same patch can be found at the OPD Wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaha_Police_Department

Fun fact: they didn't even bother printing up new ticket stock for this show. Tickets sold at the door were for the scrubbed Lincoln show from February 2. (stub) https://imgur.com/UXs79ow

So glad this video has surfaced! Growing up in Omaha didn't completely suck.

[elevenism]

In case there was still any lingering doubt, Omaha 100% confirmed. @37:30, you can see the police officer escorting the individual out the front entrance into the lobby of the old Civic Auditorium (RIP). The patch on his right jacket sleeve consists of a large gold bison in profile over a light blue banner. One version of the same patch can be found at the OPD Wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaha_Police_Department

Fun fact: they didn't even bother printing up new ticket stock for this show. Tickets sold at the door were for the scrubbed Lincoln show from February 2. (stub) https://imgur.com/UXs79ow

So glad this video has surfaced! Growing up in Omaha didn't completely suck.

And Nebraska shirts in the crowd.

That being said, I finally watched it all, and SOME of the footage being from Dallas is 99.99% confirmed.by me.

There are times where you can see that there are no seats in the back, facing the stage. The Omaha venue DOES have seats in the back, ain't it?

Also, mic going out during HiS, as well as not ONLY the keyboard fucking, but the breaking of the keys with the boot directly thereafter: this starts, but it quickly cuts to another scene.

And there's also just a LOT of other stuff that looks insanely familiar.

I'm fairly certain this is an amalgamation of 2-11 and 2-13, Dallas and Omaha.
Note that Our Lord and Savior was bleeding, but appears to almost immediately heal Himself.

This would make sense, as we know both shows were supposedly filmed.

[Kyle]

And Nebraska shirts in the crowd.

That being said, I finally watched it all, and SOME of the footage being from Dallas is 99.99% confirmed.by me.

There are times where you can see that there are no seats in the back, facing the stage. The Omaha venue DOES have seats in the back, ain't it?

Also, mic going out during HiS, as well as not ONLY the keyboard fucking, but the breaking of the keys with the boot directly thereafter: this starts, but it quickly cuts to another scene.

And there's also just a LOT of other stuff that looks insanely familiar.

I'm fairly certain this is an amalgamation of 2-11 and 2-13, Dallas and Omaha.
Note that Our Lord and Savior was bleeding, but appears to almost immediately heal Himself.

This would make sense, as we know both shows were supposedly filmed.

I’m still trying to figure out exactly what was going on during HiS. There were definitely some muffled vocals but also him spending the entire first half of the song just draped over a speaker not even trying to sing. If it was mic problems he would be angrily yelling about it. I kinda feel like he was having a moment

[piggy]

I’m still trying to figure out exactly what was going on during HiS. There were definitely some muffled vocals but also him spending the entire first half of the song just draped over a speaker not even trying to sing. If it was mic problems he would be angrily yelling about it. I kinda feel like he was having a moment

I feel like he is just more chaotic and odd during this whole show in general. I've listened to and watched LOADS of 94-95 shows over the years, and this seems like a really different TR mood. Perhaps the filming affected that.

[Kyle]

I feel like he is just more chaotic and odd during this whole show in general. I've listened to and watched LOADS of 94-95 shows over the years, and this seems like a really different TR mood. Perhaps the filming affected that.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed that. It’s really hard to describe because when you say things like “he was just laying on the ground not singing” that just sounds like every show but there was something different, not just there but a lot of the show (especially the second half). I wonder if that was why he shelved it.

[Disassociative]

I’m still trying to figure out exactly what was going on during HiS. There were definitely some muffled vocals but also him spending the entire first half of the song just draped over a speaker not even trying to sing. If it was mic problems he would be angrily yelling about it. I kinda feel like he was having a moment

That’s what I noticed - something seems off about halfway through Gave Up especially during the outro, kinda like a deer in headlights then HiS he almost has to me what looks like a breakdown? Just sits there over the speaker frozen.

[elevenism]

I’m still trying to figure out exactly what was going on during HiS. There were definitely some muffled vocals but also him spending the entire first half of the song just draped over a speaker not even trying to sing. If it was mic problems he would be angrily yelling about it. I kinda feel like he was having a moment

Were you at the Dallas 95 show? We're talking about a memory from 95, but I swear to god, at one of those shows (94 or 95 at dogshow house), technical issues happened.

All the lights were down for a BIT, and then Trent said something like "sorry. These things fuck up sometimes."

Now, to be fair, that could 100% have been a memory from 94. But it sure seems to fit what happened in HiS.

BUT, I mean, what the fuck? Did that happen in Dallas AND Omaha? Why didn't they use the Omaha footage, then?

Maybe the editor/director LIKED the general insanity on display?

[Kyle]

Were you at the Dallas 95 show? We're talking about a memory from 95, but I swear to god, at one of those shows (94 or 95 at dogshow house), technical issues happened.

All the lights were down for a BIT, and then Trent said something like "sorry. These things fuck up sometimes."

Now, to be fair, that could 100% have been a memory from 94. But it sure seems to fit what happened in HiS.

BUT, I mean, what the fuck? Did that happen in Dallas AND Omaha? Why didn't they use the Omaha footage, then?

Maybe the editor/director LIKED the general insanity on display?

I was only at Pittsburgh 94. So I can’t say what happened at that particular show but it just seems like more than technical issues. Maybe technical issues and something else but I’ve seen how he usually reacts to tech issues and this wasn’t it

[Papagolash]

I’m still trying to figure out exactly what was going on during HiS. There were definitely some muffled vocals but also him spending the entire first half of the song just draped over a speaker not even trying to sing. If it was mic problems he would be angrily yelling about it. I kinda feel like he was having a moment

He was definitely having a moment, it started during Reptile, during that "loneliness" scream. Thought he wrecked his vocal chords there the 1st time I watched it and wondered if that's why he stopped singing and didn't do his usual freakout at the end of the song, through Gave up, and HIS. When I watch it again I think it wasn't him blowing up his vocal chords but him having an extended moment that began at that scream and ended halfway through HIS when he starts attacking the keyboard (pre humping).

For the mic issues it does sound like he's having issues during HIS, but I think it's due to him singing barely above a whisper and not singing at all, because the "happiness" whispers during the middle breakdown sounded fine, as did throwing the mic into the crowd and cracking off that girls head ("Oww!"). What is odd to me is when he does the high pitch "SLAVERYYYY" that audio is barely there, even though he was singing perfectly fine leading into it and his mic audio was great. That confuses me what's going on there.

Side note, I've ALWAYS wondered what sound effect was being triggered whenever he does the 1 finger playing the keyboard during the "happiness in slavery" right before the high pitch screams. I've seen him do that in so many videos but have never been able to figure out just what the hell he's triggering there. I never hear a sample or keyboard note being played.

[fishtifer]

Side note, I've ALWAYS wondered what sound effect was being triggered whenever he does the 1 finger playing the keyboard during the "happiness in slavery" right before the high pitch screams. I've seen him do that in so many videos but have never been able to figure out just what the hell he's triggering there. I never hear a sample or keyboard note being played.

I've always wondered that too, the end Slaveryyyy screams have always been my favorite part of the live performance of that song, I was little worried it was maybe just a prerecorded scream or a major effect - Trent uses a bullhorn for it now to make his voice louder possibly.

[nooneimportant]

Side note, I've ALWAYS wondered what sound effect was being triggered whenever he does the 1 finger playing the keyboard during the "happiness in slavery" right before the high pitch screams. I've seen him do that in so many videos but have never been able to figure out just what the hell he's triggering there. I never hear a sample or keyboard note being played.

What's interesting to me is that I think Trent use to play the crazy synth parts during the ending jam. You can see him play it on Closure. You can't really tell because of the camera cuts and shit, there's destroying stuff when you hear the audio but then he's actually playing something on the keyboard that fell over.

[sonic_discord]

The insanely acute attention to detail and overall thoroughness of this board never ceases to amaze me. I still have yet to watch this in its entirety (been busy lately), but I just wanted to add my thanks to the OP, @Norton Canes

[SM Rollinger]

The insanely acute attention to detail and overall thoroughness of this board never ceases to amaze me. I still have yet to watch this in its entirety (been busy lately), but I just wanted to add my thanks to the OP, @Norton Canes

Same here, and my computer has been down because I have been rearranging my studio so I haven't had a way to put this on a flash drive and watch it on my tv.

Anyways, I remember when AATCHB was coming out and TROZ mentioning on more than one occasion how it wasn't going to be like some pro shot HBO special looking thing, and I get it now because I feel like THIS has some awkward super high production thing going on and it doesn't really fit some of the songs with the way it's shot, at least not on some of the songs. Maybe that's why this never got released, it's almost counter to the gritty-ness of the music. Who knows?

I was worried this was going to make me change my mind about making my own AATCHB style video using footage from this tour, but I am still gonna make it because the front half of the tour when Wooley was still in the band has some sick footage and robin still has his hair. I hope to have it finished by 2025.

Anyways, if someone fixed/made new audio and combined it with a better transfer this would kick some serious ass.

[nooneimportant]

Happiness in Slavery is weird because either he's not really trying to sing or there's a legit mic issue. I feel like if there was a mic issue he would've caused chaos right from the start of the song but I bet he tried to keep it together because they were filming. Either way its one of the best performances of any song I've seen from NIN and that's saying something.

[sweeterthan]

could the vocals going out during HiS be because this isn’t a final cut? maybe it’s not properly mixed yet with the best vocal track they have because this project didn’t get finished.

[Kyle]

could the vocals going out during HiS be because this isn’t a final cut? maybe it’s not properly mixed yet with the best vocal track they have because this project didn’t get finished.

You can see him not singing though

[elevenism]

You can see him not singing though

RIght but it's still possible.

Perhaps they wanted to use bits of the theorized " mental breakdown," along with full audio. Perhaps the editing wasn't completely finished.

[EvilGobi]

Im finally getting around to watching this and its bananas to think that ‘this didnt exist like a month ago’.

Ill say I can totally see how (at least at some points) they could think its a bit too concert film-ey, I really do think that the editing does a major disservice to the performances of things like Eraser and Hurt.

[BRoswell]

Ill say I can totally see how (at least at some points) they could thing its a bit too concert film-ey, I really do think that the editing does a major disservice to the performances of things like Eraser and Hurt.

Yeah, the editing is really the big issue here. It's the same thing that sinks the Bowie/NIN footage that was leaked several years ago. That edgy MTV style might work for a music video, but for a full concert film, it becomes a bit grating after a while.

[mfte]

This footage is fantastic. Our Emo King of Pain at his absolute peak.
It feels so odd to see/hear Hurt not close out a show.