Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[tony.parente]

Broken is only an EP if you don't include Suck and Physical - and The Slip? Come on man, that's as long as any standard vinyl album from over the years

I know, but I've always considered them EPs because of how small they are in general. Broken has 6 non-instrumental tracks and the slip has 7. (In before ghosts)

[eversonpoe]

I know, but I've always considered them EPs because of how small they are in general. Broken has 6 non-instrumental tracks and the slip has 7. (In before ghosts)

why don't instrumental tracks "count" in your opinion? trent's instrumentals are some of my favorite songs he's done. i could understand saying pinion & help me i'm in hell (and 999,999) are all relatively short and therefore potentially less impactful, but them being instrumental shouldn't matter.

[sheepdean]

^^
Don't agree on Manson. EMDM was better in my book, but that's the subject for a different topic.

I just wonder what's next, are we gonna have ETS users who will ask 'what's a Nine Inch Nails?'

I may or may not own a t shirt that says "what's a nin", because people legit asked (spoiler: I do)

I know, but I've always considered them EPs because of how small they are in general. Broken has 6 non-instrumental tracks and the slip has 7. (In before ghosts)

Instrumentals are songs too!

[tony.parente]

@sheepdean and @eversonpoe
i know I know! I didn't say there was any logic in those feelings, instrumentals absolutely DO count as songs.

Idk, I can't rationalize my feelings lol

[Halo Infinity]

i have no clue what NIN's last album is called. i think i heard one song my friend played for me when the album came out. which was when? summer of 2014? i don't even fucking know. shame on me. i don't even have the ethic to find out how good it may or may not be. may echoingthesound have mercy on my soul.

As sheepdean said, it's Hesitation Marks. Aside from simply being Nine Inch Nails, I think you might find great appeal in Hesitation Marks if Pretty Hate Machine and With Teeth are also among your favorite albums. This is not only just me, but I have noticed that it usually seems to hit the spot for huge fans of those albums in Echoing the Sound, NIN.com and real life.

i love guessing games, but i really don't have one leg to stand on when it comes to this.
i'm not a "googler" who pretended to earn the knowledge for myself then post something ultra poignant and act like it's my own original thoughts / opinions.

Aside from the regular Wikipedia page, The Nine Inch Nails Wiki is also my place to visit whenever I'm searching for general information about NIN. I think that you also might end up liking it if you give it a try.

http://www.nin.wiki/

http://www.nin.wiki/Hesitation_Marks

[BenAkenobi]

... I think you might find great appeal in Hesitation Marks if Pretty Hate Machine and With Teeth are also among your favorite albums. This is not only just me, but I have noticed that it usually seems to hit the spot for huge fans of those albums in real life and Echoing the Sound...

WT and PHM are my all time top nin records, but i'd never associate H.M. with those. Year Zero is the closest one.

[tony.parente]

As sheepdean said, it's Hesitation Marks. Aside from simply being Nine Inch Nails, I think you might find great appeal in Hesitation Marks if Pretty Hate Machine and With Teeth are also among your favorite albums

How dare you associate that masterpiece with Hesitation Marks.

[BRoswell]

I know, but I've always considered them EPs because of how small they are in general.

The Slip is over forty minutes in length. How is that small?

[implanted_microchip]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't more or less most albums about forty minutes before CDs came in and suddenly people developed a sense of "Well it can hold about eighty minutes, so we should make about eighty minutes"? That seems to have died off a lot (and in my own albeit limited experience it seems like a lot of albums from 90's and early 2000's are vastly longer than those from most other time periods).

The Slip's totally an album. In Rainbows by Radiohead is only 42 minutes and no one seems to argue about that. Ziggy Stardust is 38 minutes and is considered to be one of the all-time best albums by anyone ever. I don't really get it. Personally I kind of hate how many things are ridiculously fucking long, often unnecessarily so. I'd take a great 40 minute album where every song lands and is fantastic over something twice that length with a ton of filler or throwaway material that just blends into beige stretches of same-y songs.

[tony.parente]

Still both EPs in my mental nin catalog even though they're not logical thoughts in any way, shape or form.

[ldopa]

That didn't make any sense to me in that context.
Or in any context actually. One could argue that just because the means to gather knowledge have changed doesn't make them any more meaningless/ful than when you had to read a book, get educated, or just gather info from hearsay.
You care about the info or you don't. If you do then go get it, if you don't then don't "brag" about your ignorance, either way it's all from your own volition ?

And, even if I get that you would join a fan forum while not really caring for the object of the fandom itself, I don't really understand why you would drag your boots to the NIN part you don't care for and post about not knowing the name of an album you can't be bothered to listen to or to even google ? That's not controversial, that's just pointless, for everyone involved ?

it didn't make sense to you because you focused on my bottom sentence instead of the sentence i typed on top.
i went to the NIN portion of the forum because i wanted to. i don't understand why you dragged your boots to my post only to pick it apart and talk shit about the portion that isn't even on topic. just fucking ignore me. you're annoying.

[Khrz]

Someone pissed in your moonshine this morning ? I just wondered what you meant. If you don't want reactions to what you write, buy a notebook.

[sheepdean]

it didn't make sense to you because you focused on my bottom sentence instead of the sentence i typed on top.
i went to the NIN portion of the forum because i wanted to. i don't understand why you dragged your boots to my post only to pick it apart and talk shit about the portion that isn't even on topic. just fucking ignore me. you're annoying.

Well, you've been linked to the album now. Gonna give it a spin?

[eversonpoe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't more or less most albums about forty minutes before CDs came in and suddenly people developed a sense of "Well it can hold about eighty minutes, so we should make about eighty minutes"? That seems to have died off a lot (and in my own albeit limited experience it seems like a lot of albums from 90's and early 2000's are vastly longer than those from most other time periods).

The Slip's totally an album. In Rainbows by Radiohead is only 42 minutes and no one seems to argue about that. Ziggy Stardust is 38 minutes and is considered to be one of the all-time best albums by anyone ever. I don't really get it. Personally I kind of hate how many things are ridiculously fucking long, often unnecessarily so. I'd take a great 40 minute album where every song lands and is fantastic over something twice that length with a ton of filler or throwaway material that just blends into beige stretches of same-y songs.

i actually quite like long, epic albums. :: cough cough the fragile cough ::
i'm also super guilty of doing that with my music. two of my albums are just about/over 70 minutes long.

i think the limitations of formats have always kind of informed what people do with them. it used to be a big deal (cost-wise, especially, but also creatively speaking) to put out a double LP so most bands limited their album lengths to around 40 minutes. but yeah, once CDs came up with their increased running time and much lower manufacturing/distribution costs, more bands were inclined to take advantage of that fact.

[implanted_microchip]

@eversonpoe expansive is great if done well like The Fragile, but there's a wealth of albums that just drag and drag relentlessly because all of a sudden the format allowed for everything that maybe would have been left on the cutting room floor or relegated to b-side material suddenly got thrown into the mix with less discretion. Trent's always been good at finding the right run time as far as I'm concerned. Dragon Tattoo's score might be pushing it a bit, but that's fundamentally different from a studio album anyway. There really aren't any NIN records I find overlong or too short.

[Khrz]

The pale emperor clocks in at 52 minutes. Usually, I tend to think the 50 min mark is a good length for an album. Straightforward, no fat, log enough to enjoy without getting tiresome or distracting.

[Inkë]

At this point, ETS is one of the strongest reasons NIN is still somewhat alive.

[Halo Infinity]

Agreed. For quite some time, I've always believed that the power of word of mouth should never be underestimated.

[Ryan]

At this point, ETS is one of the strongest reasons NIN is still somewhat alive.

I think you'll find that @tony.parente is the main reason NIN is still alive.

[joplinpicasso]

Trent's always been good at finding the right run time as far as I'm concerned. Dragon Tattoo's score might be pushing it a bit, but that's fundamentally different from a studio album anyway.

You leave that mammoth of an album alone! It's a slow beast.

[WorzelG]

You leave that mammoth of an album alone! It's a slow beast.

It really is, it took me several years and a few long train journeys to appreciate the wonders of disk 3

[HurtinMinorKey]

I'd rather see new HTDA than new NIN.

[Hazekiah]

I consuser Broken and The Slip EPs in my head despite them both being albums.

Since Reznor himself has referred to Broken as an E.P. I don't really see the problem there.

Broken is only an EP if you don't include Suck and Physical

Is that where the distinction is officially made? Add two songs and it's suddenly a mini-album instead of an E.P.?

o_O

[sheepdean]

Since Reznor himself has referred to Broken as an E.P. I don't really see the problem there.



Is that where the distinction is officially made? Add two songs and it's suddenly a mini-album instead of an E.P.?

o_O

The distinction is because of length (as in, time - or in some territories, time and track number).

[BenAkenobi]

I don't ever consider (EP) a necessary thing for a conversation.
If i ask someone "have you listened this Broken by Nine inch nails?" i don't see why insert (EP) in that question, because it's very likely the person would be distracted and proceed to ask me "what are you talking about? what's EP?" instead of getting to the point and asking "does it have Fuck you like an animal song?".

[tony.parente]

The distinction is because of length (as in, time - or in some territories, time and track number).

This is true. The Mars Voltas first album Francis The Mute only had 6 tracks so their record label wanted to count it as an EP towards their recording contract so they split up Cassandra Gemini into 8 tracks.

[Hazekiah]

Meanwhile, the Fixed EP is longer than the longest version of Broken and the Further Down the Spiral EP is just chillin' next door with 14 tracks, lol.

And the nature of EPs is ALWAYS worth discussing...if only for the chance to introduce The Digital Underground into the conversation, w00t.

[sheepdean]

@Hazekiah those are considered EPs because remix albums are considered EPs by RIAA (and I think UK charts), which is dumb but hey. I would also consider them albums following the basic album rules

[Hazekiah]

Personally, I feel like the main takeaway here is that "the rules" are just inconsistent bullshit and NO ONE should feel bad about calling Broken an EP, lol.

And I'd disagree about referring to companion remix releases as albums/LPs, since they're really closer to the equivalent of a maxi-single than a full album of original material.

For me, it really just boils down to the degree to which an artist considers any given release to be a MAJOR WORK of MASSIVE IMPORTANCE versus a quick little mini-release filling the gaps of time between actual albums. With that in mind, I'm perfectly comfortable calling Broken an EP or a mini-album, but I'd certainly never call it an LP.

(That said, I'm fully aware of the irony in my using underlines beneath the title to indicate its significance, lol. It's mostly a stylistic choice, fwiw. Plus it makes talking clearly about the Smells Like Children EP vs. the song "Smells Like Children" VASTLY simpler.)

[Exocet]

First there was the grumpy dark angry synth pop phase....1988..1990

However It would be more accurate to call Nine inch Nails between 1992-1994 a Noise act, rather than an Industrial act.

I like that comment Bowie made about Trent being a noise sculptor like an artist. The musicology on Downward Spiral and Broken too is Jackson Pollock in musical form. All over the place with layers.
This has made me realise NIN was essentially a noise act...the term seems more apt than Industrial.

The Fragile seemed less focused on Noise manipulation..i dont even think The Fragile could be defined in a genre.
But i think Downward Spiral can.

Trent dropped this all together in 2005 and went minimal.