I was almost going to make a joke earlier about how I knew someone was going to say that you shouldn't say "and" and someone was going to say "'and' means a decimal point", so I'd cut to the chase and pre-respond that there are different standards and "and" does not mean "decimal point" it means "plus" (or "plus" means "and"). You didn't actually say that second part, but if we're being picky, "and" is used to indicate the sum of a whole number and a fraction and the decimal point is used to separate a whole number part and fraction part that are being added.
Since we know the origin, it seems best to make them Hesitation Marks Demo 1-3. The last one should just be in the "All Time Low" article.
I was under the impression we only have that because "Untitled from thingsfallingapart.com" was so named by TR on remix.nin.com. I dunno why we even have an article for the HLAH untitled track, as it seems better as a note in the Halo 3 article. It's ridiculous it's categorized in the Rare and Never Played Live lists.
There are no other untitled demos besides the HM ones, right? I'm not sure why the demo titling has to necessarily follow the untitled track titling. Especially since, in this case, it'd make for stupidly long article titles and URLs.
But I guess it's only ever sheepdean and I who debate these things anyway.
We do, but once that happened, the others kinda followed suit. And the HLAH because, well, it's a track that contains noise on a nin release that was at least edited for it. It qualifies as a nin track imo, but fuck I wish it didn't. Probably shouldn't be on the never played list, but it belongs on rare imo.
Afaik there are no other unnamed demos, although technically Slate/Twist are as we don't really know their names, they're named on the bootleg by its creator. And idk, but I feel like we should mention source and track to prevent possible future confusion if more tracks happen over the years, and I feel the track title (even if it's simply called "demo" or "untitled") is more important than its source in a title. It's 1 Ghosts I not Ghosts I 1 after all
Ghosts is a special case, though. It doesn't make sense to refer to its naming convention outside the album itself. (Ever think about how messy the wiki'd be if we didn't get files or a Bluray with track titles labelled? Would've been some Selected Ambient Works II-level bullshit!)
I guess I agree with "Demo 1 from Hesitation Marks" then. Parentheses are your call.
Do we have to make a page for the interview track? Ugh.
Ah fuck interview tracks. Non edited, non musical.
If someone wants to make them, I wouldn't stop them, but really, fuck them lol.
So what's your toss on "Demo 1 (from Hezzytayshun Marks)" vs "Demo 1 from Hazytation Markz"? And of course we can call them [[link|Demo 1]] when actually linking to them unless source is essential
I guess parentheses are best for futureproofing, as it were. Still your call though. I'm not making the pages!
Hah I just want a consensus, moving pages is annoying because redirects slow everything down.
Demo 1 (from HM) it is, now I have to actually re-listen to them :P
I'm going to include the "rare nin songs" cat as it's only on one version of the release, like Home.
Working on a demos page to sister the remixes one, but I'm not sure how I feel about the layout. I didn't want to match the remixes' one, as most songs don't have more than 1 demo if they have any at all, but I feel I can improve, thoughts? http://www.nin.wiki/User:Sheepdean/Demo (obviously WIP)
Also, what's the actual origins of Demos & Remixes? Is it just fan remixes that seem like demos, or are they actually sourced demos with no explicable origin?
Ambitious @sheepdean is ambitious.
I like the idea of the wiki being definitive and usable. To categorise all the remixes was sensible, to categorise all the demos just feels logical.
Stop me if I try categorising art variations
The demos on D&R are legit, but they are alternate demos to what's on PF and I don't think anyone knows their provenance. Also, what D&R refers to as a demo of "Suck" is the original Pigface version. There's nothing fan-made on that bootleg, to my knowledge. All legit, but some of it is mislabeled and some was already commercially available.
Yeah, I'll be including Suck solely because many people think it IS a demo, and they'd be expecting it there. With a note of how it isn't one.
And I do believe some of the D&R demos are real, I just have no idea where they come from, at least with PF we have a vague understanding of a studio tech, and knowledge that it's a whole album. I'll try to include them all but I am suspicious of DII Demo IV.
Not on Amazon, HDtracks UK and a few other digital providers though. But it's not like NIN doesn't have a history of a myriad of versions for albums lol
Dang diddly diddly!
I heard the demos from demos and remixes (tracks 1-5) are from a sep recording session POST purest feeling.....rumor was those songs were from the same studio sessions that were on that tape atkins was pimping on ebay a few years ago....either way there has been numerous stories on how TR demoed that album to death before he went in to record it...who knows what the dates are but post PF and pre PHM would probably be winter/spring 89 era
Last edited by billpulsipher; 07-08-2015 at 01:34 AM.
I'd have to figure out exactly which interview/biography CD it is (most of them have the same TR interviews), but in one he specifically says that there were at least 5-6 different completed mixes/versions for each track on PHM. If I remember correctly, he credited that to the number of producers + trying to figure out what he/they liked.
I wonder what mixes were on the version that was originally presented to TVT?
Last edited by Jon; 07-08-2015 at 02:45 AM.
What's everyone's opinion on having a page for fakes? Angel, It All Fades etc?
^^
Good idea, if it's one page that contains all of them. No need for individual entries.
I suspect this page might eventually have more Tapeworm fakes than NIN ones
So, page title ideas? "Fake songs" or "Fake NIN songs" or something? I'll probably make a simple bullet list with what the track really is in bold?
Maybe "Songs incorrectly attributed to NIN"?