How do you interpret The Fragile?

[seasonsinthesky]

I wonder if we're in the majority or minority, when it comes to the (admittedly huge minority of people who've spent this much time thinking about one LP from fifteen years ago) idea that The Fragile is more of a collage than a timeline.

it doesn't make sense if read in a linear fashion without relying on majorly shaky interpretations — as in, the kinds unsupported by the source text. the thing just isn't arranged logically and can't be followed as such if one is attempting to make any kind of sense from it. how could it be? the songs were placed according to an external brain disconnected from the meanings of the words and statements.

[Songs having bits of other songs at the start and end] actually drives me fucking nuts. I would murder for a copy of The Fragile with no crossfading; with everything neatly spliced. The crossfades, to me, actually speak a little more to an implied order, but only in those places where they occur. For example, "Starfuckers" doesn't have to necessarily follow "Please," but "I'm Looking Forward to Joining You, Finally" absolutely follows "Complication"—unless you have the vinyl, of course, where it follows "The New Flesh". Which raises the question of things like "Even Deeper" and "Pilgrimage," which don't crossfade at all on the vinyl, because they end and begin a side, respectively.

TNF and ILFTJYF are across sides as well, so they're separated like ED and "Pilgrimage." and i agree; kinda wish they'd put out multitracks or at least instrumentals like with TDS so we can have a peek anyway. i've taken the time to 'crop out' all the songs and while some are easily done ("The Fragile" easily splits away from WITT, as does the end of "The Wretched"), some have to be edited enough that you start to wonder if it's really equal to hearing the song pre-sequencing.

And speaking of "Pilgrimage," anyone else find it really surprising that the song is/was considered important enough by Trent to end the album in both single-disc versions? I love the track, but not only do I not see it as that integral to the album, I find it to be one of the more almost out of place songs in the collection. It fits, yes, but it's always felt more awkward to me than, say, "Please" (which clearly belongs with its other song buddies).

i was surprised too when i first saw it. evidently the track has an important perspective on the work as a whole; to be honest, it took me about a decade to even like the piece, so i've been thinking for a long time that TR must have had serious intentions behind including it but not including "10 Miles High," which is easily one of my top 10 favourite NIN songs. it's clearly more important as a statement... but what that statement says, i'm unsure. it's interesting, however, the way that it begins with distorted guitar and this grand machinery building and collapsing, then falls into this completely out-of-place and bizarre marching band (makes me think of the Sigur Rós song "Sé Lest" live, wherein the marching band at the end of that song walks right across the stage as they perform the music). the familiar NIN sound falls into total, dark absurdity — sounds like all of The Fragile to me, in a way that lingers.

Everyone (including Trent in some interview? am I remembering that correctly?) has always said that the Right side is more experimental and abstract, while the Left is more of a traditional album creature. That would certainly fit with the Left/Right brain interpretation.

never really thought about that, but you're right, the Left disc is structured quite a lot like a traditional album (though TDTWWA obviously fucks with the way the dynamic is 'supposed' to work, where the second song is usually an energetic single, and that song is... well, it's an un-song, really — funny that the Right disc actually performs this same sequencing function 'properly' but is considered the weird disc!) while the Right disc has a stranger feeling. however, i find the 'otherness' of that side is sourced in the way it relates to the Left; there is a sort of mirroring in the way they begin, with SD and TWOIT having a similar build-and-release linearity, but then the discs veer off in vastly differing directions. if TR had released the discs separately like Radiohead did, how would the Right disc have been judged differently? with distance between the releases, would the tracklisting of Right have changed, or included 10MH and TNF? what would it have been titled if Left would presumably have kept The Fragile title?

[Sesquipedalism]

it doesn't make sense if read in a linear fashion without relying on majorly shaky interpretations — as in, the kinds unsupported by the source text. the thing just isn't arranged logically and can't be followed as such if one is attempting to make any kind of sense from it. how could it be? the songs were placed according to an external brain disconnected from the meanings of the words and statements.

I agree, but I have, on occasion in the world of literature, seen people cobble together explanations that, after they pile the horseshit high enough, start to seem supported by the source text and are actually kind of cool.

TNF and ILFTJYF are across sides as well

I love ETS' acronyms. That seven-letter sequence should not make any sense, but I didn't even hesitate when I looked at it.

i've taken the time to 'crop out' all the songs and while some are easily done ("The Fragile" easily splits away from WITT, as does the end of "The Wretched"), some have to be edited enough that you start to wonder if it's really equal to hearing the song pre-sequencing.

You did? I'd love to hear that. "Pilgrimage" coming out of "Even Deeper" drives me crazy. But, as "Somewhat Damaged" is my favorite song, "The Day the World Went Away" growing out of it feels like the audio equivalent of a wart. Which, considering how much I like "The Day the World Went Away," is saying something for my irrational love of "Damaged" and my possibly rational loathing of crossfades.

"10 Miles High," which is easily one of my top 10 favourite NIN songs.

I've never gotten the appeal of this one, to be honest. I like that it's not a normally sequenced song. I like the ambiance. But I think, if I divide the catalogue in half, this one falls in the lower bracket. "The New Flesh," on the other hand, well, it boggles my fucking mind how that didn't make it on the supposedly definitive CD tracklisting. I can't imagine what could have been more important to the work as a whole, or what could have been a cooler sonic experiment/innovation. Once again, I'm looking angrily at you, "Starfuckers."

it's clearly more important as a statement... but what that statement says, i'm unsure. it's interesting, however, the way that it begins with distorted guitar and this grand machinery building and collapsing, then falls into this completely out-of-place and bizarre marching band (makes me think of the Sigur Rós song "Sé Lest" live, wherein the marching band at the end of that song walks right across the stage as they perform the music). the familiar NIN sound falls into total, dark absurdity — sounds like all of The Fragile to me, in a way that lingers.

That's not inappropriate, if I recall correctly. I'll have to see if I can find the interview or whatever where Trent actually comments on the song. It sounds something like what you just said. The phrase "conquering army" or "invading army" is used. Which made me feel more solid about my interpretation of the track (The Phantom Menace had just come out, so the song felt very much like some sort of perverse, Emperor Palpatine celebratory parade), and less sure about how it related to the album as a whole.