Nine Inch Nails & Religion

[Halo Infinity]

I thought of posting this topic that's probably as old as Nine Inch Nails, or The Downward Spiral itself. Regardless of your own religion, what do you think of songs like Terrible Lie, Heresy, and The Wretched? I get that it's about the character, and how Trent was singing about the flaws, manipulation, coercion, and corruption or organized religion though. And I'm sorry if this is a very bad or redundant topic, but I've always found it interesting.

I also saw it at the old ETS, but it said Christianity instead of religion, so I thought I'd just make it say religion instead to cover other religions in general. I also couldn't find it on the new ETS, and I really hoped to see if somebody made another one again. I didn't find it, so I just thought of making this one.

I also had a friend who was a Christian that I actually got into Nine Inch Nails back in the With Teeth and Year Zero years. He ended up loving Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, and even The Downward Spiral the most to my surprise. It wasn't until he actually started to pay attention to the lyrics of Terrible Lie, Wish, Heresy, Closer, and The Wretched that he become very uncomfortable and made a conscious effort and decision to abstain from all Nine Inch Nails on the account of those songs being blasphemous and sacrilegious to him. I think he actually got offended when I was watching Beside You In Time with him. (I was hanging out with him and his cousin who was another NIN fan, and the lyrics were on, and Terrible Lie was playing.)

The other time was with another friend from the same church. (I grew up Adventist BTW, so they were Adventists.) We attended a NIN concert in 2009 at the Jones Beach Theater at Wantagh, NY, with the same cousin. Who not surprisingly, wasn't even religious so he never had a problem with any of NIN's songs. Anyway, after the concert was over, he actually said something like, "I liked the entire set-list except one song." in a little sarcastic tone. And he was obviously referring to Heresy at the time, but we still had a good time nonetheless. However, not surprisingly, he gave up on Marilyn Manson for having an album like Antichrist Superstar out, yet he's still willing to put up with Heresy and The Wretched.

But yeah, that's pretty much my experience with Christians listening to NIN in real life. There was another one too who was yet another friend from the same church, but it wasn't for Terrible Lie or Heresy or anything like the other reasons mentioned above. He just found the moods to be negative.

[becoming]

I think its kind of odd Trents been referring to god and religion lately, like "talking to god" or "praying" See - Find my Way

[Sutekh]

Would you say the wretched is anti religous? I don't think the god reaching his arm through bit is literal

my guess regarding songs like heresy is that christianity is a lot more annoying if you live in America

[eversonpoe]

there was a whole topic about this that got kind of heated and then derailed and then fell off the main page pretty recently. not even going to bump it...hopefully the discussion in here will be more of an intelligent debate.

[frothy_ham]

I can only speak of this from my own perspective.

I have never been a religious person, my parents were never religious people, aside from a few trips to Sunday school that I barely remember I've never been involved with religion on a consistent basis. As soon as I understood the concept of atheism, I self-identified as such. As most teenage atheists are wont to do, I went through the typical angsty raging at organized religion phase we are all familiar with in some capacity. I've since matured to the point of having a more measured view of the world and metaphysics but during that period, my only opinion of NIN's references to "Him" was
"LOL!!! BLASPHEMY IS SO K00L!!! GOD IS DEAD LOL!!!".

You can definitely see that TR's take on "The Lord" is very different on Hesitation Marks than in earlier material. Rather than an angry young man placing blame and anger on an unseen and neglectful deity, it sounds more like an older, more mature person pleading for guidance and forgiveness. Whether or not it comes from a literal genuine place, or it's still somewhat facetious/mocking we might never know.

[becoming]

it sounds more like an older, more mature person pleading for guidance and forgiveness. Whether or not it comes from a literal genuine place, or it's still somewhat facetious/mocking we might never know.

This is what I'm wondering too.

[BRoswell]

Terrible Lie, Heresy and The Wretched are all about blaming God essentially. No matter what you believe now, most of us have had that moment where we wonder why shit happens to us and why whatever forces drive the universe cause these things to happen. I know Find My Way surprised a few people because of lines like "Oh dear lord hear my prayer", but it's really not that far removed from "Hey God, why are you doing this to me?". It's all about being "stuck in this hole" (as Trent puts it in The Wretched) and questioning those forces and wanting answers, even when those answers do not come.

[Ryan]

put my faith in god and my trust in you now there's nothing more fucked up i could do

[Tyson]

Personally, I think organized religion is nothing more than a way to control people. Period. That said, I feel any and everyone should have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively effect someone else's life. For example, I don't think churches should be able to basically say "No gay marriage" simply because it's not something they themselves believe in, or other shit like killing in the name of your religion or harassing people because they don't believe in what you believe in. I've seen atheists be just as bad about harassing and mocking other religious groups as theists, so I think they're just as bad. I don't believe in a god or an afterlife, but I don't identify myself as atheist. I identify myself as non-religious.

On the subject of religion (or anti-religion) in relation to NIN, neither Heresy nor Find My Way really effect me one way or the other. Both songs express his "personal" struggles with religion. His anti or, now, perhaps, pro stance on God is his own business.

Being raised in Alabama, I was around Baptist Christianity my whole life. We never really "practiced." We went to church a few Sundays, and if you asked my mom she would have said she's definitely Christian and believes in God, but she rarely cracked a Bible. Even some church hymns I can get behind. At least the ones that celebrate happiness. Religion and church, in my opinion, isn't so bad when it promotes uplifting messages. I just don't like when it devolves into the preachy, "you're going to hell" type messages. I'm not sure how everyone else feels, but I really don't need a God and the promise of eternal damnation to deter me from being a bad person. I'm a good person because I want to be. Not because I expect to be rewarded for it in an afterlife.

[Yoshata]

^^
The only difference between you and me there is that I do believe in a higher power. Other than that...pretty much spot-on how I feel.

[Tyson]

High five!

[Halo Infinity]

I can't believe how long I've made my first post, but it is sometimes hard getting a thread started in just a few words, especially with a topic like religion. A simpler and short version of what I said would basically state that I had some friends in the church I used to go to that liked Nine Inch Nails until they paid attention to the lyrics in songs like Terrible Lie, Heresy, and The Wretched. Most of them ended up finding the lyrics to be blasphemous, offensive, and negative and then quit listening to NIN after that, while telling me how NIN is a negative influence, filled with negative topics and emotions. The style was also too abrasive for some, or just not their thing. (Not that I forced NIN on them, but those were the ones that didn't get into it in the first place. Oh yeah, and Wish and Closer didn't help either.)

And out of curiosity, do you know any Christians that like/listen to NIN? It really would be interesting to see what they'd say. (I can also only think of two ETS members so far, and would like to see what they think.)

@marodi @Elke - Pardon me if I got this wrong, but aren't you both Catholics?

[marodi]

And out of curiosity, do you know any Christians that like/listen to NIN? It really would be interesting to see what they'd say. (I can also only think of two ETS members so far, and would like to see what they think.)

@marodi @Elke - Pardon me if I got this wrong, but aren't you both Catholics?

I am indeed Catholic and there is absolutely nothing in Reznor's lyrics that I find offensive. On the contrary, I find myself having many of the same feelings he's writing about.

My interpretation is that his anger and disgust is not really at God but more at organized religion. To simplify a very complex idea: mankind wrote the Bible. What we have is the will of God as seen through the lens of humanity. And mankind have been using religion to control people. I believe in God (and I think that to an extent, Reznor must do too; you don't write about something for years without believing at least a bit in it) and Catholicism is the way I was taught to worship Him but I don't agree with everything Catholicism stands for. Not by a long bit. In fact, I disagree so much about so many point that I'm pretty sure it's enough to get me excommunicated.

The Jesus Christ I believe in is the one who said "My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. (...) This is my command: Love each other."

[Khrz]

I've always seen it from my own perspective, and apart from Heresy (which is more about religion than it is about god itself in my opinion) I've never envisioned those mentions of god as anything more than a synonym to "fate", "the universe", "life". God is handy that way, it's like a portmanteau where you can stuff all the random, unforeseen shit happening around you, or to you.

[elevenism]

believe it or not, i am a christian these days. and i've ALWAYS had a LITTLE bit of a problem with heresy. On another note, i have a much harder time with Big Man With a Gun.
But i LOVE nin. They are and always have been my favorite band. Trent, i think, has always been TRYING to find God, the God that he thinks everyone but him has. (I want so much to believe)
He's just trying to "find his way."
Trust me, ive been through a WHOLE LOT of hating, and even openly defying YHVH (the judeo-christian god) through practicing witchcraft. eww. there. i said it. but ive made a FULL recovery from that shit.
God is good, for real.
Shit. I can't believe i'm saying that either.
But overall, i think TR has evolved spiritually AND in terms of getting sober. And he's done it pretty much at the same rate as i have. That's part of why NIN is PERFECT for me.

[ImpendingDoomguy]

I know this thread is old, but it interests me, so I thought I’d comment.

I’ve been a NIN fan since college. About 30 years.

I believe in a god. There were times I called myself a Christian.

Now, I’m not exactly that.

Over the years, the way I’ve felt about the “blasphemous” content has fluctuated.

I think there are multiple ways to interpret the works, some of which sound better to different people at different times.

The way I feel is that more often than not those “blasphemous” works give voice to things that, when interpreted from relevant points of view, SHOULD be said.

I believe that “god” would rather we feel better by being angry and venting, even at them, especially at them, than denying anger and pain when it’s real or severe.