The Smashing Pumpkins

[neorev]

Remember when Billy thought he was a modular synth virtuoso and made generic bleep bloop drone music any modular beginner could make. Siddhartha was probably one of the most pretentious, self indulgent things he's done. Then to try to hock it as an overpriced vinyl boxset with a truck cat and $50 Stylophone synth you could buy anywhere. By the way, he still had hundreds of copies left.




I wonder if Billy thought Aegea was gonna be his Kid A?

[WorzelG]

Remember when Billy thought he was a modular synth virtuoso and made generic bleep bloop drone music any modular beginner could make. Siddhartha was probably one of the most pretentious, self indulgent things he's done. Then to try to hock it as an overpriced vinyl boxset with a truck cat and $50 Stylophone synth you could buy anywhere. By the way, he still had hundreds of copies left.




I wonder if Billy thought Aegea was gonna be his Kid A?

Jesus Christ, that Aegea sounds like the synth music by Ross in Friends except it clearly goes on interminably! Imagine trying to have a cup of tea with that Siddhartha shit going on?

[Shadaloo]

NOBODY is talking about Billy's new music anymore, unless its to shit on it. He doesn't move the needle anymore. He probably thought the Pumpkins reunion would lead to selling out stadiums like the GNR reunion, meanwhile most of the arena dates featured lots of empty seats. Nobody cares (except you). His albums come and go and are forgotten about within 2 weeks. He goes on Howard Stern last year to promote a new album and Stern spent the entire interview requesting songs from Mellon Collie lmao. In 1995 Billy boy thought he was going to slot in and replace Kurt as the voice of a generation....And now he is what he always feared he would become. Washed up and forgotten.....And it kills him....He spent half the Stern interview ranting and raving about how it drives him crazy the Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam are huge. Hes clearly jealous. He so desperately wanted to be Kurt Cobain.

Yeah, we're not having a discussion about the pros and cons of their last few albums here, debating what the high and low points are. There are no threads on Netphoria, or the SP Reddit, about the new albums. Nobody in the last few pages of this thread has brought up Oceania as a good point of their recent discography.

They didn't sell out of CDs at the SP store.

Yeah, there's been a lot of negative feedback about the new album's sound, but there's a saying, "All press is good press."

Now please stop talking, Adrian Toomes. Go rob a bank and pick a fight with Spider-Man.

[fillow]

Like I said the last time, three persistent haters make it look like they're the majority. I loved the SP2.0 records and I liked the first two new songs too, but I'm not gonna go on a crusade to defend WPC, he's doing just fine without me. I'm gonna wait for the full album to drop (or drip) before I listen to the rest.

[Shadaloo]

The problem with your Kid A and Mechanical Animals comparison is those albums are praised and actually good.

You are missing my point; I'm not comparing the new music to Kid A, not by a long shot. I'm talking about the shift in direction and the reaction people are having to it, that's all. Including your own "It's too electronic." Again, all the songs you listed are songs that are predominantly rock-oriented; there's not a single number like TBITEITB in them, so it just really seems like you feel the most from them when they're doing what they do best, which, of course, is rock. It IS their strength.

And come on, there really is no comparing Aagea and Siddhartha to this; that's a false equivalency and you know it. That's him fucking around in his tea shop with synths and not producing a full album with the SP name behind it.

But:

As long as I don't have to pay for the piece of shit

It just seems painfully cringe includingly fake to me... like Billy's spirituality.

Hate and disgust and boredom.

Grade A dog shit

....you've had 2 Netphoria avatars recently, the first being that horrible, horrible Billy Fetus image, and now you've changed it (thank you) to an awful, sad looking picture of him wearing that ridiculous clown makeup. I look at those, and I look at the way you seem to talk about Billy...and I can't help but wonder whether if how you feel about him as a person isn't maybe influencing the way you're receiving this music a little bit. I don't mean to get into your head or anything, but it's clearly pretty heavily vitriolic.

Or maybe you're just that disappointed it makes you that angry. I can empathize. But it isn't worth it.

It's fine to have expectations, to want his music to make you feel something. I do too. But I deduced a long time ago that the Billy that could write a fistful of songs that could really punch me in the gut no longer exists, any more than TDS-era Trent does.

Remember what Trent said when he was talking about how he was looking back on that era? "I remember that guy." It's the same thing here.

It's funny, between you and me, I honestly couldn't say who has more hope, if any, for Billy to be able to write great stuff again...I don't know which of us has given up more.

Also, perhaps the reason keep calling his newer music shit because it really is just not that amazing or groundbreaking? I mean, that very well could be a possibility. What? It's everyone else who is wrong? Perhaps the newer music is just not that good and doesn't connect with people like his other stuff.

What "everyone else" thinks (and that's bullshit, because from what I'm seeing the reactions are mixed, as they always are: confused, negative to pleasantly surprised; I could go through a list of albums dating back to MCIS of there being a bunch of songs everyone hates, off every album) is unimportant to me.

About five years ago I nearly got hit by a car because I blindly followed a jaywalker across the street, paying half-attention. It was a minor incident, but it got me thinking about "what I do because other people do it". That got me to rely more on my own brain first and foremost. Other opinions can be, and usually are, interesting or informative to read, but at the end of the day, I make my own decisions, especially when it comes to what music I enjoy.

Now, I don't disagree with his newer music not being up to snuff all the time. Cotiillions, Ogilala, Shiny V1...those are all really hit-and-miss albums for me; typically half-decent, half-blah, with a few odd numbers scattered on each I'd call great. What I disagree with is the persistent bullshit narrative - And I am not saying you espouse this - that every album is somehow worse than the last. If that were true, you wouldn't have people here referring to Oceania as a high point. I maintain Monuments is the nadir, the absolute worst dreck, the sound of Billy not knowing what the fuck to do with his music or the SP name. THAT sounds like a Billy solo album to me. This...doesn't, not completely.

Being amazing or groundbreaking would be nice, but all I'm asking at this point is for the occasional nice song that has some lyrics I can relate to.

And on that note:



If you read those lyrics and you can''t see he's literally talking about how his fanbase has grown away from him, and how he's asking to be accepted as the person he is and not who he used to be...I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe I'm used to interpreting his lyrics. I've been doing it going on over 20 years, whenever an album comes out. I know that the shit he writes now is often indecipherable - if he hadn't said Oceania was about a breakup in an interview or Pale Horse was about his mom, I would never have known.

But not here, not this one. I read that and god help me, I actually do feel some kind of weird empathy and a little bit of sadness.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Like I said the last time, three persistent haters make it look like they're the majority.

Empty arenas make it look like the failure it is.....The majority have spoken....

[Lerxto]

The problem with current SP is Billy can't handle someone saying no to him, so he surrounds himself with yes-men.
Just give songs room to breathe, so James, Jeff and Jimmy can actually contribute things. And listen to your fans.





Ogilala & Shiny could've been a solid SP album. But instead we got good songs buried under the WPC moniker, and over-produced, criminally short Shiny EP disguised as an LP. Typical.

Then comes CYR.
I'm sure there were some good ones when Billy first announced he wrote 24 songs for Shiny 2. Then 4 got dropped, and I bet among those 4 were the ones he should've kept.
Then he worked so hard to butcher the remaining 20 with his horrid production.
Wait for the whole album, there's diversity, it's not a new wave synth-pop record, he said. Even compared it to 1979/MCIS.
We've heard 6 out of 20 now. So far, sounds exactly like that, and a shitty one.

Of course, he's blaming the fans for not getting it. Well, fuck you. I get it, your "fans" hated Adore and Machina then and loves it now.
But from Teargarden onwards you've only got yourself to blame, man.
Where's Burnt Orange-Black? Cardinal Rule? Double R? Red Dirt?
Flashback to Zeitgeist/Teargarden. As Rome Burns, Lonely is the Name, Dream Machine, some residency songs & Gossamer etc.
Praised by fans, never recorded in the studio or remains unreleased.
Reviews for Oceania was good. Then he fired Nicole and poor Mike, released Monuments. Next one was Day For Night.
Stop making stupid decisions, then we'll talk nicely.

[neorev]

You are missing my point; I'm not comparing the new music to Kid A, not by a long shot. I'm talking about the shift in direction and the reaction people are having to it, that's all. Including your own "It's too electronic." Again, all the songs you listed are songs that are predominantly rock-oriented; there's not a single number like TBITEITB in them, so it just really seems like you feel the most from them when they're doing what they do best, which, of course, is rock. It IS their strength.

And come on, there really is no comparing Aagea and Siddhartha to this; that's a false equivalency and you know it. That's him fucking around in his tea shop with synths and not producing a full album with the SP name behind it.

I didn't mention TBITEITB because you specifically mentioned people bashing SP2.0 material. That's why I didn't mention Adore tracks or Machina tracks. I listed tracks from Zeitgeist on aka SP2.0. I literally said Adore is my favorite SP album, so obviously I would love tracks from that album and not have to mention them. By the way, I also listed my personal Adore playlist, and guess what? My playlist is made up of the more electronic tracks. I loved Adore since the day it came out. Adore felt like a step forward. So your "gotcha" moment went poof.

Machina was the beginning of the end. Billy trying to recapture the band and failing. A step backwards trying to create another double album opus. Then he just went off the walls since. Billy needs someone who knows when to scrap a crap track instead of yes men. Billy made more good electronic music with Flood and Matt Walker's involvement. On his own, not so much. I'll give him Eye. Though I dislike the alt version/remix on the Adore reissue and prefer the Lost Highway version. Good ol Billy taking a great track and making it worse. Lost Highway version/mix is superior. This is why I have little faith in Machina being remixed.

[neorev]

....you've had 2 Netphoria avatars recently, the first being that horrible, horrible Billy Fetus image, and now you've changed it (thank you) to an awful, sad looking picture of him wearing that ridiculous clown makeup. I look at those, and I look at the way you seem to talk about Billy...and I can't help but wonder whether if how you feel about him as a person isn't maybe influencing the way you're receiving this music a little bit. I don't mean to get into your head or anything, but it's clearly pretty heavily vitriolic.

Or maybe you're just that disappointed it makes you that angry. I can empathize. But it isn't worth it.

It's fine to have expectations, to want his music to make you feel something. I do too. But I deduced a long time ago that the Billy that could write a fistful of songs that could really punch me in the gut no longer exists, any more than TDS-era Trent does.

Remember what Trent said when he was talking about how he was looking back on that era? "I remember that guy." It's the same thing here.

It's funny, between you and me, I honestly couldn't say who has more hope, if any, for Billy to be able to write great stuff again...I don't know which of us has given up more.

Except Trent has made post TDS material that hit me in the gut. And it didn't need to be TDS to make me feel something.

I use those avatars because that is what Billy has become. Billy fetus = his pretentiousness and Billy's old clown make up face. Honestly, if anyone made me dislike Billy, it was Billy. He used the reissues to shit on the rest of the band. He constantly gets caught trying to rewrite history. I've watched him literally shit on fans while they were praising his work.

But that does change the fact that he is making shitty music. When I say too electronic, I mean it's so rigid and artificial and devoid of soul. Even his vocals have lost any sense of emotion in them.

Plus, I've had plenty of bands who I love from the 90s who made newer music that made me feel what I felt when I first loved them. There are lots of long lasting artists still making good music. But Billy ain't it.

Gore is one my favorite Deftones albums. I'm actually a little disappointed with Ohms because it retreads old territory too much. I prefer the songs where the synths are cranked up. My favorite Chino side project is Crosses, his electronic project.

The new Hum album is awesome.

I'm a huge fan of The Prodigy, and their last album No Tourists was the best thing they've done since their original trilogy of greatness.

I'm a huge Chemical Brothers fan, and their last album No Geography was the best thing they've done since their original trilogy of greatness.

Underworld's Drift Series 1 was the best thing they've done since their original trilogy of greatness.

I've been a huge Orbital fan since Snivilisation, and my favorite album is Wonky, the album before their latest.

There are plenty of artists from the 90s still making great music.

Billy wishes he could be Trent. Trent's at least still got something left to say and can make something good and emotional. Has Trent done stuff I didn't like? Sure. I wasn't a fan of Hesitation Marks. But I loved the trilogy though. I'm a huge With Teeth fan.

Again, this isn't about Billy recreating his glory days, but about making new music that's actually exciting and makes you feel something... besides emptiness and boredom and wanting to press the skip button.

[GulDukat]

Some of you guys really need to get a life. You put wayyy too much mental energy into berating Billy Corgan.

Come on down to the Star Trek thread. We need more heated discussion there.

[neorev]

Some of you guys really need to get a life. You put wayyy too much mental energy into berating Billy Corgan.

Come on down to the Star Trek thread. We need more heated discussion there.

You tell folks to get a life... then say to go participate in a Star Trek thread. Star Trek is kinda the opposite of getting a life.


Didn't Star Trek die along with Star Wars?

[GulDukat]

You tell folks to get a life... then say to go participate in a Star Trek thread. Star Trek is kinda the opposite of getting a life.

Star Trek died along with Star Wars.

It was a joke man. Not on this board, but on some of the Facebook groups, Star Trek fans are pretty insufferable.

[eversonpoe]

he thinks everything he poops is brilliant

giggling incessantly over here

[neorev]

The problem with current SP is Billy can't handle someone saying no to him, so he surrounds himself with yes-men.
Just give songs room to breathe, so James, Jeff and Jimmy can actually contribute things. And listen to your fans.

Ogilala & Shiny could've been a solid SP album. But instead we got good songs buried under the WPC moniker, and over-produced, criminally short Shiny EP disguised as an LP. Typical.

Then comes CYR.
I'm sure there were some good ones when Billy first announced he wrote 24 songs for Shiny 2. Then 4 got dropped, and I bet among those 4 were the ones he should've kept.
Then he worked so hard to butcher the remaining 20 with his horrid production.
Wait for the whole album, there's diversity, it's not a new wave synth-pop record, he said. Even compared it to 1979/MCIS.
We've heard 6 out of 20 now. So far, sounds exactly like that, and a shitty one.

Of course, he's blaming the fans for not getting it. Well, fuck you. I get it, your "fans" hated Adore and Machina then and loves it now.
But from Teargarden onwards you've only got yourself to blame, man.
Where's Burnt Orange-Black? Cardinal Rule? Double R? Red Dirt?
Flashback to Zeitgeist/Teargarden. As Rome Burns, Lonely is the Name, Dream Machine, some residency songs & Gossamer etc.
Praised by fans, never recorded in the studio or remains unreleased.
Reviews for Oceania was good. Then he fired Nicole and poor Mike, released Monuments. Next one was Day For Night.
Stop making stupid decisions, then we'll talk nicely.

Yea, Lonely Is The Name sounded quite promising.
I've actually had convos with Billy thru PM on Instagram about this song and he was dismissive as usual.
The only time Billy responded positively was if I praised something more recent or a moment where he feels he proved the critics wrong or simply bashing the press.

And even in the midst of that praise, he always has to turn it to something negative. Such as when I mentioned Superchrist and the AOL Sessions performance, which he positively responded with, "That's the bomb, that." But then he had to say "From a band the press said was a rent a band, no less." I stopped chatting with him cuz he always seemed to turn everything into a negative. He definitely has a chip on his shoulder. He pretends to be above it all. I've been lucky to have convos with a few well known artists. And, honestly, he was the worse. There's a very fine line of topics with him.

On another note...
When I asked about why reissues like Aeroplane and Adore didn't get a 24 bit release like all the other reissues, he said "I think the market just isn't there." Meanwhile Amazon has launched a lossless/hi-res streaming services and digital stores opening and Monument even got a 24 bit release. So he's always making stupid decisions, such as not releasing the tracks you mentioned.

[poinoup]

Add me to the "Adore is my favorite" list. But dat Aeroplane box...

Personally, I started to fall out with Shiny. It was awesome to see them on the reunion tour, and Calgary was pretty much a full house. You could see the floor hyped for the encore, growing in anticipation, and then "Solara" hit, and a lot of peeps started to leave. "Baby Mine" helped kill the mood even more as everyone left. There was no energy after the show. I could get to the merch booth far easier at the end. They're getting my money for shirts.

I found the bootleg of the return show, I was so damn happy about Zeitgeist. But then I heard it, and the mixing of Billy to the front at all times, plus the Billy chorus, was overkill. I thought the original Gossamer was enough, but it just kept going. I thought the American Gothic EP was pretty damn good. Teargarden was hit or miss, and Oceania had some great stuff on it. Songs like "Pale Horse" and "Pinwheels" just hit that right frequency with me.

Then came Monuments, and "Tiberius" and "Being Beige" were the only ones I could salvage off there. There were a few highlights on Shiny, but it was just...there.

I can understand that it's not 1995 anymore, and Billy isn't still "Fuck you, world!", and that he's doing what we wants. I always joke that I want my celebrities to act extra pretentious and out of their minds, but Billy seems to take the former to such a level it becomes a parody of itself.

I might not have the same views on the world, but that doesn't mean I hate the man. The Pumpkins were a huge part of my high school years. Adore was the perfect album in summer 98...foolish teenage love.

Now, onto these new songs. I thought "Cyr" was alright, but everything else has done nothing for me. The songs are just...there. I find them pretty dull and lifeless, but Bill and co. are not out there to cater to my, and only my, tastes. If you dig em, right on, ain't nothing wrong with that. It's just weird to not feel a great anticipation for a new album, after a few decades.

1) Ok, I ranted whilst stoned enough.
2) I hope no one takes this as an attack or anything. Not intended in any way.

[WorzelG]

Sometimes I think Billy Corgan is a bit narcissistic. I listen to this podcast, Riot Act and in this one they discuss the Smashing Pumpkins at Wembley on their big comeback tour in 2018 and it sounds deranged. A beautiful woman praying to a deity figure resembling Billy Corgan? Billy Corgan big face everywhere (even though he’s not a looker!). Also did it happen on the US tour that they managed to cherry pick old footage that practically erased Darcy from the band?

the discussion starts at 16mins and it’s not completely negative but very funny!
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000422169481

[allegro]

he said [I]"I think the market just isn't there."

This from the guy who spent 8 straight hours at his tea house noodling around doing a ridiculously wanky interpretation of Hesse's "Siddhartha." <- This is one of the funniest articles I’ve EVER READ!!

This is Billy Corgan's safe place, where no one, not even strangers, will tell him "No."

[allegro]

And even in the midst of that praise, he always has to turn it to something negative. Such as when I mentioned Superchrist and the AOL Sessions performance, which he positively responded with, "That's the bomb, that." But then he had to say "From a band the press said was a rent a band, no less." I stopped chatting with him cuz he always seemed to turn everything into a negative. He definitely has a chip on his shoulder. He pretends to be above it all. I've been lucky to have convos with a few well known artists. And, honestly, he was the worse. There's a very fine line of topics with him.

You know, this bugs me. Because here in Chicago during that period, Billy and the Smashing Pumpkins were getting a LOT more positive press (or ANY press) than a lot of other deserving Chicago bands, and it caused a decent amount of friction and shit here in Chicago at the time.

A lot of people, now, either don’t know or forget that Chicago was much bigger than Seattle as far as being a fertile music scene. There was an explosion of music, here, that started in the late-80s and continued well into the 90s and spawned tons of bands and genres. It was a crazy and awesome time to be alive and a Chicagoan.

Billy became the darling of Joe Shanahan who owns what was the Cabaret Metro venue in Chicago (now the Metro), and Shanahan began booking the Pumpkins fairly regularly and Billy could use Shanahan as leverage behind his label-hunting ambitions. The Pumpkins received NO bad press in Chicago at the time; at least, none that I can recall, other than the reports of jealous consternation from other Chicago bands as to the preference and favors that Billy was receiving from Shanahan. I suspect, like you said, this attitude is just Billy’s (er, Williampatrickcorgan’s) giant chip on his shoulder talking.

At the time and even years later, it seemed like the only Chicago artist who publicly had anything to do with Billy around here was Liz Phair, because of that jealousy over all the good press and favors that the other artists perceived that Billy was getting. Lots of that was unfair, sure. But, come on; that was 28 years ago. Any "rent-a-band" characterization was something he, himself, created due to his being a known control freak, and this isn't even a "characterization;" it's a reality.

Here is a good article: https://music.avclub.com/a-great-tim...o-s-1798261063

[Chicago Tribune Music Critic] Greg Kot: The Pumpkins were percolating for a long time. You’d hear a lot of whispering going on—and sometimes it wasn’t whispering, sometimes it was just very loud protests—like, “Who are these guys? How dare they get these slots on these Metro shows?” But Corgan was writing songs. What was it about these certain bands? It was all about getting radio songs. The mainstream music industry really hadn’t changed that much. It was still about getting a single on commercial radio. What changed was, Corgan could write songs that could get on the radio. He was writing very well-produced, single-ready type of music. He was also making very accomplished albums. I’m not one of those Pumpkins nay-sayers. I think the music was extremely evolved and well-done, and the singles were quite good. They deserved to be hits.

But the difference between a Smashing Pumpkins and a great band like Eleventh Dream Day is that Corgan knew how to play the game. He knew how to deliver singles. He was perfectly willing to work with a big label to help him move that along, whereas some of these more indie-oriented bands, I mean, Eleventh Dream Day and bands of that ilk were coming out of the whole punk and post-punk scenes and they were very much skeptical. They admired bands like The Minutemen and Hüsker Dü. Those were their role models. They weren’t looking to be commercial hits; they just assumed they would be playing clubs, and it was kind of a surprise that they were signed to a label.

Whereas Billy Corgan—that was his ambition all along and he made no bones about it and it was pilloried for it. He was blatantly ambitious and blatantly wanted to be signed to a major label and blatantly wanted his songs on the radio. And that was anathema to a lot of Chicagoans, who said, “It’s not cool, you’re not indie.” So there was that tension in Chicago all through this, like, “How much do we sell out? Do we sell out at all? Are we selling out if we do this?” You’d have those arguments all the time.

[fillow]

LOL. Imagine Billy reading this thread and not turning negative.

[allegro]

LOL. Imagine Billy reading this thread and not turning negative.

Heh that’s fair. But a good amount of it is his own fault.

[Piko]

I think biggest issue with Billy is that he's a try hard and a very insecure one. He could probably put out an amazing album, still. He won't though. Instead of making the best album he could possibly make, instead he dwells more on how other people will receive it.

He's the guy who scrapped an entire album because the previous one didn't get the reviews he wanted.

[allegro]

I think biggest issue with Billy is that he's a try hard and a very insecure one. He could probably put out an amazing album, still. He won't though. Instead of making the best album he could possibly make, instead he dwells more on how other people will receive it.

Is he, though? Putting out this pablum, it seems like he’s actually thumbing his nose at any of that and ramming full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes, and putting out stuff that he thinks is brilliant (self-indulgent).

Scrapping an album: Yes, he's also vindictive. "You all didn't appreciate my LAST album? You won't get this new one, fuck off."

[Shadaloo]

Because the only one I found was 192 kbps, I'm doing a new lossless audio rip of If All Goes Wrong. PM me you want in on this, because right now I think we all need some manner of coping mechanism

[Shadaloo]

Sometimes I think Billy Corgan is a bit narcissistic. I listen to this podcast, Riot Act and in this one they discuss the Smashing Pumpkins at Wembley on their big comeback tour in 2018 and it sounds deranged. A beautiful woman praying to a deity figure resembling Billy Corgan? Billy Corgan big face everywhere (even though he’s not a looker!). Also did it happen on the US tour that they managed to cherry pick old footage that practically erased Darcy from the band?

He absolutely has narcissistic personality disorder. He's aware of it to some degree; the "St. Corgan" footage was supposed to be a huge sendup of himself as some sort of rock god, IIRC. He knows when to make fun of it, but he's never been able to take any kind of criticism well. "Nobody believes I wrote a three star record!"

The fact that on Joe Rogan he actually acknowledged that his recent albums weren't up to par with his classics to some degree was mindblowing. I'd never seen him do that before.

D'Arcy was completely erased from the music video footage played on the big screens during the tour, yes. This is right after they had their blowup with Alternative Nation posting their texts where it was shown Billy didn't have enough faith in her ability to play full time again due to a shoulder injury she'd sustained. It's probably just as likely he didn't want to deal with her refusal to take shit.

If anyone wants a really good article which I hope outlines why I'm happy he's regularly putting out music again, consider this article, which is amazing:

A Brief History Of Billy Corgan Losing His Goddamn Mind

[allegro]

^ OMG I’d forgotten about Tila Tequila

[r_z]

That Rogan Interview was actually pretty good. BC seemed very relaxed and opened up about a lot of stuff.

[WorzelG]

He absolutely has narcissistic personality disorder. He's aware of it to some degree; the "St. Corgan" footage was supposed to be a huge sendup of himself as some sort of rock god, IIRC. He knows when to make fun of it, but he's never been able to take any kind of criticism well. "Nobody believes I wrote a three star record!"

The fact that on Joe Rogan he actually acknowledged that his recent albums weren't up to par with his classics to some degree was mindblowing. I'd never seen him do that before.

D'Arcy was completely erased from the music video footage played on the big screens during the tour, yes. This is right after they had their blowup with Alternative Nation posting their texts where it was shown Billy didn't have enough faith in her ability to play full time again due to a shoulder injury she'd sustained. It's probably just as likely he didn't want to deal with her refusal to take shit.

If anyone wants a really good article which I hope outlines why I'm happy he's regularly putting out music again, consider this article, which is amazing:

A Brief History Of Billy Corgan Losing His Goddamn Mind

Ha, I read that article at the time. Fantastic. Billy Corgan should have his own sitcom, it would be funnier than the Osbornes.

the thing is, I’m not coming from a place of hate. I never got into the Pumpkins at the time, my grunge of choice (yes I know SP isn’t grunge) was Alice in Chains - I saw them in a small student venue in Manchester in 1990 or 1991 and it was amazing. I always thought Nirvana was massively overrated, I liked Soundgarden too. I got a Smashing Pumpkins greatest hits CD Rotten Apples because people here, whose opinion I respect, liked them so much and I loved the songs but Billy’s voice - no!

Billy should be happy with the acclaim he has, so much music I loved growing up, particularly 80s synth pop was absolutely hated by the British music press. He’s lucky he was American, if he was British he’d be eviscerated by a load of fucks for being successful. So I find it hard to have that much sympathy.

[poinoup]

It feels like forever ago:

Still makes me laugh.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I remember when Billy put ads in several Chicago newspapers announcing the return of SP on literally the same day his (surprisingly decent) first solo album came out..

It seemed like absolute lunacy and an ideal way to ensure literally nobody cared about your brand new solo record, until Trent did the same thing about a decade later when he announced the return of NIN on the same day HTDA released their debut album, lmao..

[Failure]

It seemed like absolute lunacy and an ideal way to ensure literally nobody cared about your brand new solo record, until Trent did the same thing about a decade later when he announced the return of NIN on the same day HTDA released their debut album, lmao..

Pure lunacy!