The Smashing Pumpkins

[Zimbo]

I love it. Yes, his voice is the same as it's been the last few albums, but this is the first time it's felt like a full band since Oceania, and this is definitely the best album since Monuments. Second listen today was better than the first...

He says he saves his voice for the tour...which, I think might be true because if you listen to "Marchin On" he does the MCIS voice/growl sing. Anyways, this album fucking rules.

[frankie teardrop]

It's interesting, I feel like you'd do more damage on tour - whereas a record has permanence to it. I wouldn't mind hearing a growl or two...but I don't necessarily NEED it. yes, album fucking rules indeed!

[poinoup]

Second listen with the gibberish lyrics in front of me and it's far better second listen. It's actually feeling like a band album, not just a BC dictatorship.

Edin, Pentagrams and 999 stick out big time on the second go.

[Kodiak33]

It's interesting, I feel like you'd do more damage on tour - whereas a record has permanence to it. I wouldn't mind hearing a growl or two...but I don't necessarily NEED it. yes, album fucking rules indeed!

Yeah that doesn't make much sense to me either. One thing he has tried to do (and failed IMO) is try to actually sing more notes than he used to. There's too much going on, keep it simple. I wish he would bring Flood / Moulder back for one more round!

[Zimbo]

Yeah that doesn't make much sense to me either. One thing he has tried to do (and failed IMO) is try to actually sing more notes than he used to. There's too much going on, keep it simple. I wish he would bring Flood / Moulder back for one more round!

Yeah IDK just an anecdote I heard.

Crazy JC thought Sicarus was B tier and voted it shouldn't be on the album. The drums! The guitars! I think Billy's vocals are mixed the best for this song, too. We all wish he mixed his voice like Jack White's most recent album but I would accept this mixing, too.

[Kodiak33]

Yeah IDK just an anecdote I heard.

Crazy JC thought Sicarus was B tier and voted it shouldn't be on the album. The drums! The guitars! I think Billy's vocals are mixed the best for this song, too. We all wish he mixed his voice like Jack White's most recent album but I would accept this mixing, too.

The mixing has been terrible since Zeitgeist, unfortunately we know who the captain of that ship is. Some of the songs on this one are WAYY better than before and actually bring out Jimmy's drums like they should be. Most of it is still bad IMO.

[burnmotherfucker!]

We all wish he mixed his voice like Jack White's most recent album but I would accept this mixing, too.

That's actually a really good comparison to me in that they both have a voice that is going to cut through the mix regardless of the level it is mixed at. It is what it is at this point though. To my ears, the end result of Billy's voice always being so front and center is that it makes the band sound small, whereas the band used to sound powerful, with Billy's vocals being a big part of it and the driver. And then there's the lyrics, which...yeah. And the vocal mixing highlights that aspect even more. But whatever, I'm just nitpicking and obviously they can do whatever the fuck they want to do.

It is criminal just how few albums there are where Jimmy is fully let off the leash. Perhaps he prefers it that way too? I mean he is great at serving the songs instead of his own ego but he's also the greatest drummer in rock to me and I wish they'd make him the centerpiece more often. I mean did anyone here catch his interview and playing with Rick Beato? It's not just that he's great, he's effortlessly great. Seriously, just watch his hands when he does all those bonkers fills, it's like they don't even move, no wasted effort.

[Zimbo]

That's actually a really good comparison to me in that they both have a voice that is going to cut through the mix regardless of the level it is mixed at. It is what it is at this point though. To my ears, the end result of Billy's voice always being so front and center is that it makes the band sound small, whereas the band used to sound powerful, with Billy's vocals being a big part of it and the driver. And then there's the lyrics, which...yeah. And the vocal mixing highlights that aspect even more. But whatever, I'm just nitpicking and obviously they can do whatever the fuck they want to do.

It is criminal just how few albums there are where Jimmy is fully let off the leash. Perhaps he prefers it that way too? I mean he is great at serving the songs instead of his own ego but he's also the greatest drummer in rock to me and I wish they'd make him the centerpiece more often. I mean did anyone here catch his interview and playing with Rick Beato? It's not just that he's great, he's effortlessly great. Seriously, just watch his hands when he does all those bonkers fills, it's like they don't even move, no wasted effort.

Yeah he clearly prefers it that way and I'm fine with it. People have hated on his voice regardless of how he sings. If we want to hear Zeitgeist sound good, listen to the rips from "If All Goes Wrong." Some REAL good shit, that. That version of Heavy Metal Machine is in my top 10 SP songs.

[Shadaloo]

That version of Heavy Metal Machine is in my top 10 SP songs.

Welcome back my friends to the show that neveRRREEEEEEEENNNNDSSSS!!!!

[GulDukat]

Gave it a listen today. Some really good points in this thread:

Pros- Band sounds great and there are some great riffs. I'm okay with the mix, but Billy does sounds too clean. When they stick to the heavier, more guitar oriented songs, the album is pretty good. Some good guitar work too.

Cons- After the first track, it felt like we were getting an old-school Pumpkins album, I was hearing Gish and and SD, but that was short lived. TBH, Moments to a Eulogy was the last Pumpkins album that I really liked. There's less keyboards, which is good, but much of the material. while not bad, just sort of "blah."

Sometimes it feels like the album is stuck in the 90s but the hooks just aren't there. The slower tracks sound more like the arty-farty songs from more recent albums. But I liked those better.

And the lyrics are terrible and as others have said, make it hard to connect to the music.

3/5

[Disassociative]

I find myself coming back to the new album a lot, something I couldn't say for Shiny, CYR or ATUM - the latter two grew on my but aren't what comes to mind when I want to listen to an SP album, I tend to just 'end up' listening to them.
Edin is probably one of the best opening songs for an album they've done in a long time

[DVYDRNS]

listened to it once the day it came out. first album ive gotten entirely through in one listen in ages.

that being said, I havent listened to it since.

[fillow]

New multicam project by yours truly (Paris 2024):

[ZeroSum]

AMM is a very good, but not great, album. But in the context of SP's output since reforming in 2007, I think it's pretty easily the best of the lot, and is a signal of good things to come.

Like a few others have indicated, the quality of Edin is so strong that it almost becomes disappointing in a sense, retrospectively; it is such an incredible song and rips with this brilliant energy that honestly reminds me so much of Gish, but a very modern take on that sound. It gives me chills. I'll always remember my first listen, and just thinking, "THIS is the Pumpkins. They are FINALLY back!" Hopefully a few of you will get this reference, but it honestly kind of reminds me of Twin Peaks: The Return, near the end when Agent Cooper becomes Agent Cooper again and we get like, a full episode of this unadulterated nostalgia that David Lynch has been dangling in our faces for like, 16 hours. That's sort of how Pumpkins 2.0 has always felt for me: this band that is clearly different, but with these little glimmers and hints of the old band trying to peek through, but the world is just so different, and that old stuff can't actually exist... the time has past; the nature of the technology, promotion, and connection between band and audience has just become something so different... And Billy is obviously a different person, too. But Edin finds a way to deliver the very unique feeling that only the first incarnation of the Pumpkins could give, and it's just really great.

The rest of the album is definitely a step down from that moment, but that being said, it is still very good. I like every single song on this record... a few of them, like Murnau, took a while to sink in, but there is something within every song that makes me smile or moves me in some way. The album is at its best when it is rocking, and I really like that there isn't a formulaic feeling to the rock songs. All of them have a different "vibe"; like Edin is this big, psychedelic, stoner-y jam, fitting alongside tracks like I Am One and Siva... but Pentagrams feels like a progressive, epic love song that could fit on Oceania... Sighommi is a great burst of energy that reminds me of Bury Me or Tristessa, but filtered through a modern lens and pared down with a lot of efficiency, kind of like Muzzle in that sense. War Dreams of Itself is like, a better version of the dystopian themed of rock/metal on ATUM, and 999 is this moody, Tool-like slow burn. Sicarus is this twisting, turning, epic that evolves from this plodding riff that feels like it's going to go nowhere, but they pull this really well crafted song out of it. The softer tracks are a little less enjoyable overall, but still do the job of adding the dynamic that a great Pumpkins album needs. The album has a more dynamic, multicolored feel than anything since MCIS, honestly. And it's so nice to see them go back in that direction.

How I'd rank the SP 2.0 albums:

Aghori Mhori Mei
Cyr
ATUM
Oceania
Zeitgeist
Shiny
Monuments
Teargarden


My feelings on everything since 2018, up to but not including Aghori, are hard to place. Shiny just doesn't have a whole lot going on, feeling more like a teaser than a proper album, while Cyr and ATUM are both really bloated and flawed, in very frustrating ways, but there are a lot of songs I love from this era. I have felt that they were so close to pulling off some magic, but something was so aggravating, frustratingly off in the process/production. A lot of the songs do conjure up the types of feelings that drew me to the band in the first place, though, and that's not something I really get from anything in what now feels like the "middle era" of the band (Billy and a rotating cast of hired guns, basically Zeitgeist -> Monuments). Aghori would have been an astonishing and great comeback record if it came out instead of Shiny in 2018; now it feels like it could be too little too late... but they seem to still have some gas in the tank, based on the energy they are putting forth publicly and in live shows. Expectations will be high for whatever comes next.

[Lerxto]

My ranking of the SP 2.0 albums:

Oceania
Zeitgeist
Teargarden
Aghori
Monuments
Shiny
ATUM
Cyr

[sonic_discord]

Here's my ranking (the top 3 are easy):

Oceania – IMO, this is still the closest SP2.0 has come to SP1.0.

Aghori Mhori Mei – A fantastic return to form that's grown on me fast. This album (like Atum) is a grower and I wish people would give them more of a chance to "click" because it's the best stuff they've put out since Oceania.

Atum – I genuinely love most of this and it's almost tied with Aghori for me. AMM is a tighter, more consistently good album, but Atum has some incredible highs in songs like The Good in Goodbye, Steps in Time, Harmageddon, and Spellbinding.

Zeitgeist – If the production were a little better and they had included Stellar, Me Belle, and the title track, this would be much higher, but it still deserves more love than it got. Tarantula was a fantastic single, too!

Shiny and Oh So Bright Vol. 1 – At only 8 songs, it's always felt a little too short and more like an EP, but it was exciting to have Jimmy & James back and these are all pretty good songs.

Monuments to an Elegy – Still has a few good songs, but overall felt like a considerable step down from the fantastic quality of the songs on Oceania.

Teargarden by Kaleidyscope – A few gems (A Song for a Son & Owata being my favorites), but otherwise some of the weaker/less memorable songs from that era.

Cyr – I don't hate it, but it is my least favorite. Dulcet in E sounds like it has some of that oldschool magic, but this is an album that probably would have benefited from some editing to trim down the number of songs.

[Shadaloo]

So I've been coming back to it here and there, giving it a few days space, or a week, playing it again a bit.

And yeah, this is easily the strongest work since Oceania, maybe Zeitgeist.

It's very front-loaded, and peters off in strength towards the end. But fuck if this doesn't prove what many people have been saying for years and what I've always felt for a certainty: The man never lost the musical chops to write great songs, he just became so fucking obsessed with sounding "modern" that he neutered so much of what made SP amazing to begin with and started following trends and indulging his old love for 80's new wave sounds.

I've never been the type to criticize an artist for following their muse. The last thing I ever wanted was for them to try and rehash Siamese Dream guitar sounds for the sake of familiarity (which is a large part of why I loathe Monuments To An Elegy - so much of it sounds like SP fuzz, but directionless and meandering to my ears). And there were as many parts of Cyr and ATUM I enjoyed as much as I didn't, but it was always when you had those points like the guitar opening to Avalanche (after the "Happiness" intro synth part) that gave me goosebumps. There were just these moments where it felt like the magic was all there again - and it was usually, but not always, when they started hitting strings.

This album's affirmed Billy's at his best when he's got an axe in his hand; he can't get the soul and feeling out of synths anywhere near as well as he can just tap into what makes a guitar fucking work.

And the only thing I feel holds them back from excellence now is those oblique, over-wrought lyrics, that fauxetry. If only he'd open himself up and remember to connect a little more often through relatable, sane sentences, we'd be aces.

We're almost there. I can latch onto something like "Love never dies."

I can't be all THERE'S THRUSH IN THE FLUE! YEAH! LABYRINTH MILK SYRINGE!

I want to love this album. I almost do. Whatever the hell they did in the studio that was ""working they way they used to" paid off in spades. Here's hoping that trend continues.

[fillow]

And the only thing I feel holds them back from excellence now is those oblique, over-wrought lyrics, that fauxetry. If only he'd open himself up and remember to connect a little more often through relatable, sane sentences, we'd be aces.

We're almost there. I can latch onto something like "Love never dies."

I can't be all THERE'S THRUSH IN THE FLUE! YEAH! LABYRINTH MILK SYRINGE!

Next record's lyrics sneak peak

[Kodiak33]

Next record's lyrics sneak peak

That's fucking hilarious!

[cdm]

A post shared by on Jan 01, 2017 at 12:00pm PDT

Billy can be an ass and say some stupid shit sometimes...but this is great and it will make a huge difference in someone's life. Credit where it's due.

[ZeroSum]

It's very front-loaded, and peters off in strength towards the end. But fuck if this doesn't prove what many people have been saying for years and what I've always felt for a certainty: The man never lost the musical chops to write great songs, he just became so fucking obsessed with sounding "modern" that he neutered so much of what made SP amazing to begin with and started following trends and indulging his old love for 80's new wave sounds.

I've never been the type to criticize an artist for following their muse. The last thing I ever wanted was for them to try and rehash Siamese Dream guitar sounds for the sake of familiarity (which is a large part of why I loathe Monuments To An Elegy - so much of it sounds like SP fuzz, but directionless and meandering to my ears). And there were as many parts of Cyr and ATUM I enjoyed as much as I didn't, but it was always when you had those points like the guitar opening to Avalanche (after the "Happiness" intro synth part) that gave me goosebumps. There were just these moments where it felt like the magic was all there again - and it was usually, but not always, when they started hitting strings.

This album's affirmed Billy's at his best when he's got an axe in his hand; he can't get the soul and feeling out of synths anywhere near as well as he can just tap into what makes a guitar fucking work.

Great post. I see those moments sprinkled all over Shiny, Cyr, and Atum. I always felt like I was taking the role of an apologist when talking about those records. I could completely understand why fans were lukewarm to downright full of loathing toward them, but at the same time, I could listen closely and find something to like in most of the tracks, and occasionally, they'd really hit me with those nostalgic pangs, like they really were touching on the stuff that made the old band so special. It was so frustrating, because things seemed so close to coming together into something really good, but I had to make caveats and accept that certain aspects of the music would be ridiculous and bad. AMM requires none of those caveats to enjoy, and is pretty easily in the top half of their discography in terms of quality.

[Disassociative]

The thing I always try to remember is Mellon Collie had its moments of off kilter goofiness like We Only Come Out At Night so it’s not like songs like Hooray are a complete out of left field oddity. But the production on the newer synth songs just sounds so cheap and dated compared to what they were using in the 90s when Billy dabbled with that stuff so it ends up at best boring or at worst grating when he goes overboard with them.

AMM seems to be a return to moderation in that aspect.

[Zimbo]

Oh, I missed the ranking The Smashing Pumpkins 2.0 album rankings:

Atum - There's a lot here, parts 2 and 3 are the standouts to me. I like his voice here, makes sense in context.

Aghori Mhori Mei - Guitars, guitars, guitars. Voice mixed just a touch too high.

Shiny - Solara will go down as a stone-cold-classic. Marchin' On shows he still has his MCIS voice. Silvery Somtimes potentially top-50 songs

Oceania - Billy knew this was the first album with just him. He knew to pick up the guitar. It is vast and condenses the ethos of TG into an album.

Zeitgeist - The fan edit that reduces the mix of his voice might move this up into the top spot.

Monuments - Jeff "Shredder" Schroeder rules.

Cyr - I still like this album and I contend, if this was done but a Halsey or Billie Eilish, songs like Tyger, Tyger or Purple or Colour (lol why the British 'U', WPC?) would've been chart toppers.


Teargarden - I did not know how to follow this. I have not even listened to all this. An unmitigated disaster. It's not an album, Oceania is.