The Smashing Pumpkins

[frankie teardrop]

well, i do like their earlier soft/pretty moments. i present these gems for consideration

medellia of the grey skies (tonight tonight b-side, slays me)
set the ray to jerry
to sheila
once in a while
luna
purr snickety
thirty three
to forgive
soothe
cherry
soot & stars

i mean, they used to EXCEL at the acoustic, somber, lullabye kind of stuff. i know you're moreso referring to the upbeat, positive, dad-rock zwan thing (which i can't really abide much), but i felt the need to defend the pumpkins' pretty side.

[frankie teardrop]

sorry for the second post in a row, but this was a separate thought. i hope the early, gothy demos get mastered/cleaned up/officially released one of these days. i listen to this song all the damn time (straight up cure- 'in your house' vibes)

[PhoenixML]

What's the "general" concensus on Machina I "vs" Machina II? Do people consider Machina II not a real album, demo, better than I?

[frankie teardrop]

i like it better than I, personally (though i enjoy both albums), but for clerical purposes, consider it a double album- even though it's actually one album + three EPs. wondering how they'll handle the reissues of those records...

[Endlessly]

sorry for the second post in a row, but this was a separate thought. i hope the early, gothy demos get mastered/cleaned up/officially released one of these days.

Yeah, here's hoping! A journalist friend of mine was on the Oceania listening-party cruise, and he mentioned that they dug out Bleed during the mini-set-- hopefully Billy's feeling kindly disposed towards the pre-Gish stuff. (Or is that one of the things that "Lucky 13" is supposed to decide on?)

The charity gig at Metro was kind of weird. SP didn't go on until 11, and the set was mostly hits, with just a couple of Oceania songs in the middle. They did open with that KISS cover that has Mike on vocals, and for the encore they covered Space Oddity, then did X.Y.U. Oh, and they used Tonite Reprise as an intro to Tonight, Tonight, which was really nice. Billy seemed to be in a great mood. I'm counting on them coming back around on the full Oceania tour-- that should be cool to see.

[seasonsinthesky]

sorry for the second post in a row, but this was a separate thought. i hope the early, gothy demos get mastered/cleaned up/officially released one of these days. i listen to this song all the damn time (straight up cure- 'in your house' vibes)

is that not the stuff getting released with Pisces Iscariot's reissue?

[frankie teardrop]

hadn't heard that until now--- but there's obviously 2-3 cds worth of material from the pre-gish days, so i'm sure a lot of it won't make the cut. but holy shit they better use 'i fall' and 'jennifer ever.'

edit: i see it'll be a repro of the original demo tape, which yes, has jennifer. but the point about excluding some remains. i don't buy cds anymore (was opting for vinyl) but might get both versions if that's the case.

[Piko]

What's the "general" concensus on Machina I "vs" Machina II? Do people consider Machina II not a real album, demo, better than I?

I consider it a double album. It was supposed to be released as a double, but Virgin didn't go for it since.Adore sold so well. I prefer the second one. Just has a lot more going on musically. But it also comes off like it was very rushed post-production. The mixing on some songs seem almost non-existent (looking at you, White Spyder). It could certainly use a huge touch-up. What intriques me about the reissue is that Billy wants to mix them differently than the originals instead of just remastering. Could be real interesting or not so pleasant. I'm hoping that perhaps he could make the double album the way it was supposed to be without sacrificing too much of the originals. We have.quite awhile for that though.

[Presideo]

What's the "general" concensus on Machina I "vs" Machina II? Do people consider Machina II not a real album, demo, better than I?

I didn't care for Machina I. Trying to listen to the entire album always felt like a chore, which is definitely not how you want to feel when listening to something. It felt very dragged out and tedious. Not many standout tracks, and only a few songs translated well live ('Glass and the Ghost Children' completely deflated the arena when I saw them a few years ago) Machina II was great, though. It felt more organic and well-organized than Machina I. Glad it's getting a remaster - I'd love to hear how a touched-up version of 'Real Love' would sound like.

[Piko]

I didn't care for Machina I. Trying to listen to the entire album always felt like a chore, which is definitely not how you want to feel when listening to something. It felt very dragged out and tedious. Not many standout tracks, and only a few songs translated well live ('Glass and the Ghost Children' completely deflated the arena when I saw them a few years ago) Machina II was great, though. It felt more organic and well-organized than Machina I. Glad it's getting a remaster - I'd love to hear how a touched-up version of 'Real Love' would sound like.

The greatest hits album has a cleaned up version of Real Love. Beats me why it sounds so rough on the album.

[frankie teardrop]

vinyl mastering/transferring is really tricky. likely they sourced the greatest hits copy from the master tapes, mixed it properly for the cd.

[Highly Psychological]

Billy Corgan is insanely underrated as a guitarist. He was fucking mind blowing on the axe. But nobody really acknowledges it? That much....

There are good guitarists who are in huge bands, then there are the newer guitar legends who are lumped in with Eric Clapton and Hendrix.

Probably one of the top 3 American guitarists to emerge from the 1990s. Way better than anyone from Pearl Jam, Nirvana, other huge alt rock bands.

I definitely think he is veering towards the guitar legend territory. I saw the Pumpkins again recently and he went off into this massive guitar jack off session where he was essentially showing off to the audience. And rightly so. His skills. jesus, he was INSANE. He is nearly as good as his obvious influence Bob Mould. Just those solos are crazy and all the effects. He has always been quite modest i think. About time he was recognized.

You can hear it in the records from the 1990s.

Im not the biggest Pumpkins fan....i love Siamese Dream, but Machina Part 1 is what it is all about for me at the moment. What a lost under appreciated classic has this gorgeous rainy day weird industrial/Shoegaze/folk hybrid thing going on. Flood/Moulder and the Pumpkins went really well together almost as good as when they collaborated with Trent. Quite a cold album but its probably one of the great lost records of the 2000's. they should re-issue it.

[imail724]

They're planning on reissuing it. Next year I believe.

[Piko]

Yeah, it's next year... still waiting on the Mellon Collie reissue. That feels like forever...

[imail724]

Well Pisces comes out in a month so hopefully that'll tide us over till the end of the year when Mellon collie, and I believe the aeroplane as well, come out.

In other news I just listened to Billy's solo album for the first time and really enjoyed it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[seasonsinthesky]

indeed, the MCIS reissue is going to be incredible. the remaining reissues after PI are where the gold is, imo; i'll be dropping the cash on MCIS, TAFH, Adore, and the Machinas for sure. there's just way too much amazing material (even if the bonus discs are full of alternate/new mixes) to be let down, imo.

however, i really hate that there's no package that includes the physical digital (CD+DVD or whatever) and the hi-res download. i bought the Gish and SD deluxe packages, but ended up getting the 24/96 transfers elsewhere because i wasn't about to drop another $20-something just for them alone.

[Shadaloo]

Liking Oceania, but not loving it. It's nice, and has some great moments, but it's very soft almost all the way through. It's not who he is anymore, but I do miss angry Billy.

And damned if the title track's opening synth and xylophone don't remind me of Final Fantasy VII's main theme.

[AgentofChaos]

FYI Regarding Machina/Machina II, it's actually being reissued as the 2 disc set it was intended to be, resequenced and all. So while it's a little blasphemous, the originals will all still be available, and those intrigued as to how Machina would sound like with Slow Dawn, Speed Kills, Vanity, Saturnine, etc remastered and mixed in, you shall be getting your wish. In my opinion, the potential crown jewel of the reissue project. It could either be epicly cool, or a huge fucking failure, but at the very least it's a highly interesting experiment.

[seasonsinthesky]

^ it's actually possible that both parts will be even re-mixed from the ground up, which makes it even more attractive as a result of the reissue project :O

[Piko]

^ it's actually possible that both parts will be even re-mixed from the ground up, which makes it even more attractive as a result of the reissue project :O

Seemed like that's what he wants to do. Maybe he can flesh out the concept he had originally aimed for. Because as concept albums, they fail. Plenty of the songs have recurring themes, but never did I get the idea that it tells a story about a man hearing the voice of God on his radio and transforming into something else. That would be cool if he were to do that. But then again, he doesn't seem flattered by the concept these days. He said in some interview that he has no idea what he was trying to do then, heh.

[frankie teardrop]

i don't mind if all the songs get re-integrated into a more streamlined running order... but i'm hoping he doesn't cut any of the tracks permanently from either the first or second disc (or third, which is likely to exist if all the machina-era material gets put out). i don't see why he'd delete any of the tracks outright (hopefully the ones that were intended as b-sides/extras would be included elsewhere), but i can't help but be a little paranoid...

[Piko]

I figure he might add songs actually. Because if I recall, Speed Kills was cut from the album. So maybe that'll be added back in. I'm wondering if we'll get a new track order and mix? The mix seems pretty likely

[Shadaloo]

As much as I'm looking forward to the Machina releases, the mention of five CDs worth of extra Mellon Collie material has me soiling myself. That'll tide me over.

http://www.craveonline.com/music/art...shing-pumpkins

[frankie teardrop]

i just got back from the iheartradio show in NYC. my ears are still ringing.

setlist was short, but sweet:
black diamond
zero
bullet with butterfly wings
today
quasar
panopticon
the celestials
space oddity

encore:
cherub rock
x.y.u.

the new sounds sounded vital, the classics rang true and emotional, the covers were interesting enough to be fun, and x.y.u. owned.

[slave2thewage]

Oh, I watched the stream of that. Seemed like a good little show.

[liquidcalm]

As much as I'm looking forward to the Machina releases, the mention of five CDs worth of extra Mellon Collie material has me soiling myself. That'll tide me over.

http://www.craveonline.com/music/art...shing-pumpkins

At least its split between Mellon Collie and Aeroplane Flies High.. Those 2, and Machine 1 + 2 are the things I'm interested in. I still remember downloading Machina 2, track by track at about 3kbps...

[littlemonkey613]

Do people like Oceana? I think its awesome......but I'm not a die hard fan or anything. I'm probably just dying for that hard guitar in this music climate.

[Piko]

I like it. Easily, the best thing Billy's done in a real long time. Very "happy" album. Perhaps too much? Musically, it's a juggernaut. Anything and everything the Teargarden stuff was missing, Oceania has. Even enjoying the contributions from the new band. They really shined well here as a unit. I try to ignore the lyrics and go straight for the overall package. Seems to work out for me. That was the thing I disliked mostly about Zwan, the lyrics. This sounds like a Smashing Pumpkins album.

[Shadaloo]

At least its split between Mellon Collie and Aeroplane Flies High.. Those 2, and Machine 1 + 2 are the things I'm interested in. I still remember downloading Machina 2, track by track at about 3kbps...

True that, but I'm wondering how Aeroplane specifically is going to be handled. Would they do another huge box? That thing's loved for its b-sides...Wouldn't surprise me if they cut the main five songs and just re-did it as a straight B-sides collection; I once ripped all the B-sides minus Pastichio Medley and it fit onto 2 CDS (this is back when I had a discman but no portable mp3 player). Billy's said a few snippets from Pastichio will be present in their full form; I wonder if there'll be a seperate dedicated Pastichio disc.


Also curious about the mixed Machina's boxart. I picture the Machina I logo over the II cover.

[Reznor2112]

Curious if the Mellon Collie reissue will have the CD or Vinyl tracklisting...