True Detective

[Swykk]

Can’t be worse than season 3 and once again, the 7545789 shots of elderly Ali looking like he pooped himself. There was one episode where something happened in that entire boring ordeal.

[henryeatscereal]

I liked it, the ending made sense; it wasn't flawless or anything but i'm not complaining.

I wouldn't rank it above season 1 and even 2, but i liked it better than season 3.

That shot of Navarro when she learns her Inuit name reminded me a lot to Vince Vaughn's death in the desert.

[richardp]

I really appreciated that they ended it the way they did rather than try to shoehorn some overly complicated supernatural element to it. It was efficient, it made sense, and it was actually a surprise to me as a viewer (as again, I was expecting some grand supernatural element to the ending).

Six episodes was short, but any longer and the story would have dragged on into unnecessary territory. Jodie Foster was INCREDIBLE in it, and deserves as much praise as she can get. Some of her best work, in my opinion.

[Wretchedest]

I'm glad it's this place is warmer towards the finale. The subreddit seems to really hate it and it's gotten pretty toxic. They make plenty of good points about what didn't work but it's also some real sky of falling vitriolic type stuff.

[Kodiak33]

I'm glad it's this place is warmer towards the finale. The subreddit seems to really hate it and it's gotten pretty toxic. They make plenty of good points about what didn't work but it's also some real sky of falling vitriolic type stuff.

I think if they left out some of the terrible throwbacks it would've been fine. Jodie Foster was awesome as usual, I wish she was in more stuff.

[Swykk]

Finished it last night and overall, I like what happened.

That said, it wasn’t a great season overall and if I rated the series it would be 1, 2, 4 and then a very very distant 3.

[Kodiak33]

Finished it last night and overall, I like what happened.

That said, it wasn’t a great season overall and if I rated the series it would be 1, 2, 4 and then a very very distant 3.

Really? I loved season 3.

[scorpiusdiamond]

I'm glad it's this place is warmer towards the finale. The subreddit seems to really hate it and it's gotten pretty toxic. They make plenty of good points about what didn't work but it's also some real sky of falling vitriolic type stuff.

Huh I wonder why that would be. I guess having a woman show run an originally very male dominated/run show with women leads might lead to … oh I don’t know, some hateful misogyny? It’s fucking grim.

I’m glad they managed to wrap it up in such a good way. I think yes, some things were left a bit murky, but hell, it got me coming back to it, so it was certainly enjoyable.

[Leviathant]

I enjoyed it. I definitely saw some upset and disappointed posts on the socials, but it's okay to like different things. And nothing that struck me as misogynistic, just folks having expectations for one thing, and getting something different. Some of that, I think, came from too much inside baseball. Maybe don't pay so much attention to the process of assembling and creating and shooting a show, and just watch the fuckin' thing. It's entertainment, FFS!

[MrLobster]

Some of that, I think, came from too much inside baseball.

This is a problem with a whole lotta "fandoms".

[Leviathant]

This is a problem with a whole lotta "fandoms".

Ask me how I know

[Wretchedest]

Really? I loved season 3.

3 is the all around best, in my opinion. It sheds a lot of the imperfections of the first season. The second season I also really love, although I know it's terrible, it's overwrought and the dialogue is frequently laughable, all the dates between Vaughn and Farrell at the saddest bar in the world... But that's kind of the fun of it and I've learned to appreciate its plot.

Regarding "inside baseball..." definitely. I was reluctant to visit that sub, but couldn't resist the pull to discuss my complicated feelings about the new season and it's finale. Of course, people don't receive complicated feelings well and are often unable to treat them as complex to begin with. It's worth thinking about: how much of my reception to the new season was contextualized by my understandings about it's creation and my experiences with what came before?

[october_midnight]

I enjoyed it. I definitely saw some upset and disappointed posts on the socials, but it's okay to like different things. And nothing that struck me as misogynistic, just folks having expectations for one thing, and getting something different. Some of that, I think, came from too much inside baseball. Maybe don't pay so much attention to the process of assembling and creating and shooting a show, and just watch the fuckin' thing. It's entertainment, FFS!

Literally this. My wife and I watched it, didn't care for a few aspects but when it was over... 'that was awesome. now, on to the next show.' Maybe we're just old now, who knows.

At one point weren't people complaining about AI being used for a poster in the background of one like, 25 second scene? Hahahaha fuckssakes.


Also....

[Pillfred]

This season to me just seemed very meandering to me. Like not bad just didn’t seem like much was going on. It could just be a skewed perception on my part. I’ll give it another go again I’m sure once in get HBO again.

I’d like to chime in on S2as well. I’ve watched it a few times now and I like it more than I initially did. Yeah some of the character points are odd in that they never really go anywhere and therefore seem unnecessary in a way. Otherwise it’s not really to bad. I could see this season going in a similar way for me.

I agree that s3 was overall very solid as well.

[Toadflax]

Night Country was such a mess that I don't have faith she can pull off another season. And her attitude on social media seems to be that she thinks everything she does is brilliant, so I don't see her taking the criticism and actually striving to make something coherent next time.

[henryeatscereal]

Also....

The amount of hate and toxic comments that this season was huge, i can only image how it's going to be for the next season.

I loved season 4, but i wouldn't be surprised if the next one it's the last, even with Pizzolatto onboard (instead he will "disown it", just like Night Country)

[Wretchedest]

I'm glad it's getting another shot and that they're sticking with the same show runner. Consistency is good, and Lopez hit at least close to the mark.

You know what this renewal reminds me of? Community. Every season of Community felt like it just barely happened, and that's been the same for true detective for a while now.

So, dare I wander back into the swamp to see what the trolls are saying?

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Just finished this mess.

The script is pretty terrible, the amount of sex crammed down your throat seems highly unnecessary, even for an HBO series, all the men are treated like bumbling idiots, with modern day Hollywood gender battles shoved in your face... we get it, women rule, and men drool. Aren't y'all tired of this nonsense?

I could not help but laugh after the 1000th time, Peter's girl was just mad at him all the time for doing his job, even if it didn't start out that way for him.

Peter climbs into bed: "I'm sorry...."
Kayla: "No, you're not"

Was it necessary to have Peter and Hank both bump their heads into a lamp in seperate episodes?? Plot holes galore, with weird ways to melt things. I didn't care about any of the characters, and everyone acts as if nothing supernatural is going on when it actually happens.

You can take the "True Detective" title off of this, and just name it "Night Country" and never miss a beat. Shit, even Season 2 that everyone seems to hate, at least had some character to it.

The cinematography is great, but that doesn't cover up the fact that the script is read like a 17 year old wrote it, but Jodi Foster, and even Kali Reis, despite some uneven acting did a great job.

I'm dying to know the idea Nic Pizzolato had under his sleeve, when he was initially, directly involved with this season, before Lopez took over. And another season with her at the helm? UGH. Worst season of True Detective, by far.

[Wretchedest]

Just finished this mess.

The script is pretty terrible, the amount of sex crammed down your throat seems highly unnecessary, even for an HBO series, all the men are treated like bumbling idiots, with modern day Hollywood gender battles shoved in your face... we get it, women rule, and men drool. Aren't y'all tired of this nonsense?

I could not help but laugh after the 1000th time, Peter's girl was just mad at him all the time for doing his job, even if it didn't start out that way for him.

Peter climbs into bed: "I'm sorry...."
Kayla: "No, you're not"

Was it necessary to have Peter and Hank both bump their heads into a lamp in seperate episodes?? Plot holes galore, with weird ways to melt things. I didn't care about any of the characters, and everyone acts as if nothing supernatural is going on when it actually happens.

You can take the "True Detective" title off of this, and just name it "Night Country" and never miss a beat. Shit, even Season 2 that everyone seems to hate, at least had some character to it.

The cinematography is great, but that doesn't cover up the fact that the script is read like a 17 year old wrote it, but Jodi Foster, and even Kali Reis, despite some uneven acting did a great job.

I'm dying to know the idea Nic Pizzolato had under his sleeve, when he was initially, directly involved with this season, before Lopez took over. And another season with her at the helm? UGH. Worst season of True Detective, by far.

The first season especially though is notorious for it's misogyny. All it's women are victims or betrayers, they all get in the way of the men who are competent enough to do their job. It's also notorious for being filled to the brim with sex scenes. My wife said it too, as much as she liked all 4 seasons, that it's nice that this one is at least about women and he experiences of women. That's part of the point. Being about masculinity is a part of the point of the first 3 whole seasons of true detective. It makes a lot of sense to me to pull away from that perspective, already a dominant perspective, but previously the only perspective in this series. Pizzolato definitely tried to amend this a little bit in the following two seasons, albeit quite self consciously, and was mildly successful in season 3.

Definitely agree on Pryor though... Like that dialogue is completely bizarre and tired. And the mystery is underwhelming in its delivery and it's conclusion. The conclusion is far too much of a fairy tail and, in my opinion, a bit too optimistic for the theme of the season. Shit just didn't add up this time. I felt that way a little bit about the solution in season 3, that it was tough to believe, but the events played out in a kind of fascinating way that made it worth it. Not so much, here.

As the for the supernatural, I think it's a big motif for this series, but the series always makes a point to override it with something more explainable. People in these shows are always using the supernatural as a reason not to pursue the crime solving, or to explain things away, when there's a better, more skeptical solution, like in this case, mental illness. We as the audience, simply aren't meant to take everything literally. Throw in an actual super natural component and you have a completely different show. One that I wouldnt be interested in, personally.

[Something Underneath]

The first season especially though is notorious for it's misogyny. All it's women are victims or betrayers, they all get in the way of the men who are competent enough to do their job. It's also notorious for being filled to the brim with sex scenes. My wife said it too, as much as she liked all 4 seasons, that it's nice that this one is at least about women and he experiences of women. That's part of the point. Being about masculinity is a part of the point of the first 3 whole seasons of true detective. It makes a lot of sense to me to pull away from that perspective, already a dominant perspective, but previously the only perspective in this series. Pizzolato definitely tried to amend this a little bit in the following two seasons, albeit quite self consciously, and was mildly successful in season 3.

Definitely agree on Pryor though... Like that dialogue is completely bizarre and tired. And the mystery is underwhelming in its delivery and it's conclusion. The conclusion is far too much of a fairy tail and, in my opinion, a bit too optimistic for the theme of the season. Shit just didn't add up this time. I felt that way a little bit about the solution in season 3, that it was tough to believe, but the events played out in a kind of fascinating way that made it worth it. Not so much, here.

As the for the supernatural, I think it's a big motif for this series, but the series always makes a point to override it with something more explainable. People in these shows are always using the supernatural as a reason not to pursue the crime solving, or to explain things away, when there's a better, more skeptical solution, like in this case, mental illness. We as the audience, simply aren't meant to take everything literally. Throw in an actual super natural component and you have a completely different show. One that I wouldnt be interested in, personally.

It takes no skill or talent to swap out misogyny for misandry though. It just reeks of utter artificiality. This doesn't bring a 'female perspective' it brings a modern day 'cynical/commercial product' perspective that is supposed to sell cause that's what's trending.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

The first season especially though is notorious for it's misogyny. All it's women are victims or betrayers, they all get in the way of the men who are competent enough to do their job. It's also notorious for being filled to the brim with sex scenes. My wife said it too, as much as she liked all 4 seasons, that it's nice that this one is at least about women and he experiences of women. That's part of the point. Being about masculinity is a part of the point of the first 3 whole seasons of true detective. It makes a lot of sense to me to pull away from that perspective, already a dominant perspective, but previously the only perspective in this series. Pizzolato definitely tried to amend this a little bit in the following two seasons, albeit quite self consciously, and was mildly successful in season 3.

Definitely agree on Pryor though... Like that dialogue is completely bizarre and tired. And the mystery is underwhelming in its delivery and it's conclusion. The conclusion is far too much of a fairy tail and, in my opinion, a bit too optimistic for the theme of the season. Shit just didn't add up this time. I felt that way a little bit about the solution in season 3, that it was tough to believe, but the events played out in a kind of fascinating way that made it worth it. Not so much, here.

As the for the supernatural, I think it's a big motif for this series, but the series always makes a point to override it with something more explainable. People in these shows are always using the supernatural as a reason not to pursue the crime solving, or to explain things away, when there's a better, more skeptical solution, like in this case, mental illness. We as the audience, simply aren't meant to take everything literally. Throw in an actual super natural component and you have a completely different show. One that I wouldnt be interested in, personally.

Me and my roommate watched Season 1, and then this right after. She never saw S1, and yes, that may have been jarring for a first time viewer to watch them back to back, but even she said something about the sex scenes. Season 1 had a lot as well, but for S4, it felt very forced, and even unintentionally funny. While I do agree somewhat about the misogyny, I have to lean more towards what Something Underneath stated below; it just feels so forced.

The first 3 episodes had me going, with the mystery factor still there, the Spiral... I really thought since Rust spent some of his years in Alaska, and his father dying there, they would have touched upon maybe why he sees those hallucinations, and has that feeling of dread after losing his daughter as well. It was all there to try and connect some dots, but none of it comes together. There is a good show in there somewhere with Night Country, but it is so Ham-fisted, it is impossible to ignore.

The bones that were in the ice cave were in a Spiral as well, and when Rose Aguineau, arguably the most interesting character of the show, states: "It’s old, missy. Older than Ennis. It's older than the ice, probably." regarding the Spiral, was so intriguing, and it goes absolutely nowhere. I'm not saying that the entire season should have been connected, since I said a few pages back, I hope the show can run on its own legs, without the crutch of S1, but if you're going to reference things from the most liked season, at least have some reasoning to use them. And when Clark utters the line "Time is a flat circle" I rolled my eyes so hard at that. A little too on the nose, don't ya think?

I always thought that there was some supernatural stuff going on, that even some of the main characters of the series seem to notice on their own terms, especially with S1, and S3, but what the characters are seeing and explaining, and what the viewer is seeing is up for interpretation. No, we should never fully trust what the characters are telling us, I agree, but in S4, things happen right in front of them, and then they're joking and being sarcastic the very next scene like nothing had happened.

We watched the first 3 episodes of Season 2, last night, and I forgot how much it oozes Noir, and has some very snappy dialog. Yes, miss a few scenes and you can end lost, but it demands your attention, and even when Velcoro gets lit up with the rubber bullets from the shotgunner, what an incredibly well executed scene there.

Edit: And to add, here are a few plot holes that fans seemed to not be able to ignore, and they make some great points. These in particular:

"The show remained super vague about what the secret DNA being studied at Tsalal was and why it would "save the world... Save what exactly?"

“The fact a cleaning lady accidentally spills a bucket of water, finds a hidden ice lab, looks at a scientific instrument, pulls it off the machine, [knows it pertains to a [6-year-old cold] murder case, knows someone who works in the police station, that person is able to get access to the Annie K files to find out she was murdered by something with a star shape... then the women of the village are able to deduct that murder weapon from 6 years ago for the Annie k case was THIS PIECE OF METAL in particular," Redditor u/straight_lurkin wrote. "OH! And they all knew somehow that ALL the scientists were responsible for the murder and thus all guilty. Sorry I pulled my back reaching so hard..."

I had to read an interview to know that these women were considered "The invisible women that see everything." The knowledge they all contained was not earned, whatsoever, and the viewer is just supposed to believe these people are capable of connecting the dots, better than the women that are actually investigating the case.

[Wretchedest]

While I certainly agree with some of these takes about how the mystery plays out I really can't agree that the shows feminism constitutes "misandry." There plenty of positively portrayed men, like Pryor, who is genuinely always trying to do the right thing and puts up with his wife's shit without going to a toxic or abusive place with it, and still hold his own boundaries and does the right thing by pursuing the case. Kali Reis boyfriend, also a wholesome character who isn't characterized to be evil, stupid, or bad.

Likewise, most of its women are deeply flawed. Jodie Fosters character is just a straight up horrible person, trying to eliminate her daughters cultural identity and hand waving away local concerns about the water. Kali reis character unable to come to terms with her families struggles with severe mental illness at the cost of the case, the woman who owns the mines, Peter's girlfriend... The misandry argument doesn't hold up.

Also, while I love season 2, the dialogue is fun *because it's bad.* it's filled with comically angsty cringe one liners. All of which I love, but it's not good writing, either. There's all those sad, sexually tense staring contests between Colin Farrell and Vince Vaughn in the world's saddest bar. Nor particularly are the same coming out of Rust's mouth in season 1. It's all very hamfisted and occasionally just lifted word for word from other sources.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

While I certainly agree with some of these takes about how the mystery plays out I really can't agree that the shows feminism constitutes "misandry." There plenty of positively portrayed men, like Pryor, who is genuinely always trying to do the right thing and puts up with his wife's shit without going to a toxic or abusive place with it, and still hold his own boundaries and does the right thing by pursuing the case. Kali Reis boyfriend, also a wholesome character who isn't characterized to be evil, stupid, or bad.

Likewise, most of its women are deeply flawed. Jodie Fosters character is just a straight up horrible person, trying to eliminate her daughters cultural identity and hand waving away local concerns about the water. Kali reis character unable to come to terms with her families struggles with severe mental illness at the cost of the case, the woman who owns the mines, Peter's girlfriend... The misandry argument doesn't hold up.

Also, while I love season 2, the dialogue is fun *because it's bad.* it's filled with comically angsty cringe one liners. All of which I love, but it's not good writing, either. There's all those sad, sexually tense staring contests between Colin Farrell and Vince Vaughn in the world's saddest bar. Nor particularly are the same coming out of Rust's mouth in season 1. It's all very hamfisted and occasionally just lifted word for word from other sources.

Should have clarified more, I was agreeing more with the modern day product, not the misandry as much. But I have to disagree with Navarro's dude... They try so hard to make him seem like he isn't very manly lol, but I digress.

Even with the women being very flawed, it just wasn't enough for me to really care about them all that much. If anything, I felt more for Navarro, for what she went through with her sister, you could really feel their relationship.

As for the Season 2 staring contest... I actually really like that moment of cinematography. I don't think it is meant to be taken so literally, and do not believe they're actually looking at themselves in real time like that. I think it reflects what Frank has over Velcoro, pretty much in debt to him for helping him in the past. But it makes sense for them to meet in a dreary, middle of the hole bar like that, and not Olive Garden or some shit lol; it fits with the Noir setting the show portrays very well. Colin Farrell definitely has some of the best dialog in the show, like when he is talking to Ani about her e-cig:

"I tried one once. It felt like it was smoking me. A real cigarette wouldn't make you feel like that. Maybe it was just a little too close to, uh, sucking a robot's dick."

I hollered at that line!

[Kodiak33]

Should have clarified more, I was agreeing more with the modern day product, not the misandry as much. But I have to disagree with Navarro's dude... They try so hard to make him seem like he isn't very manly lol, but I digress.

Even with the women being very flawed, it just wasn't enough for me to really care about them all that much. If anything, I felt more for Navarro, for what she went through with her sister, you could really feel their relationship.

As for the Season 2 staring contest... I actually really like that moment of cinematography. I don't think it is meant to be taken so literally, and do not believe they're actually looking at themselves in real time like that. I think it reflects what Frank has over Velcoro, pretty much in debt to him for helping him in the past. But it makes sense for them to meet in a dreary, middle of the hole bar like that, and not Olive Garden or some shit lol; it fits with the Noir setting the show portrays very well. Colin Farrell definitely has some of the best dialog in the show, like when he is talking to Ani about her e-cig:

"I tried one once. It felt like it was smoking me. A real cigarette wouldn't make you feel like that. Maybe it was just a little too close to, uh, sucking a robot's dick."

I hollered at that line!

Season 2 would've been WAY better with an editor (lol) and more development time. Man I need more Jodie Foster stuff, I think I need to rewatch Panic Room.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Season 2 would've been WAY better with an editor (lol) and more development time. Man I need more Jodie Foster stuff, I think I need to rewatch Panic Room.

That was my roomates main problem. Blink, and you missed it with season 2.

I recently watched Contact, and I absolutely loved it. That ending had me in tears! She is so good in everything she does.

[Kodiak33]

That was my main problem. Blink, and you missed it with season 2.

I recently watched Contact, and I absolutely loved it. That ending had me in tears! She is so good in everything she does.

Oh man I haven't seen that in a LOOOOONG time. My wife had never seen Silence of the Lambs, so we watched that a few weeks ago.

[Wretchedest]

Season 2 would've been WAY better with an editor (lol) and more development time. Man I need more Jodie Foster stuff, I think I need to rewatch Panic Room.

I actually think the legitimate best thing about season 2 (rather than just the most entertaining) is that the mystery ages better with repeat viewings and you can actually appreciate it's complexity

[Kodiak33]

I actually think the legitimate best thing about season 2 (rather than just the most entertaining) is that the mystery ages better with repeat viewings and you can actually appreciate it's complexity

Yeah I do appreciate the complexity, the dialogue just needed some major revisions IMO.

[henryeatscereal]

Gotta re-watch Season 2, ASAP

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Gotta re-watch Season 2, ASAP

I have 2 episodes left, and it's fucking riveting. Loving it even more than I did the first time.