The Relationship Thread

[littlemonkey613]

Haha its ok the other day my friend said their cousin was a jazz guitarist and I asked for HIS name even though I'm a jazz guitarist myself o.O. I slapped my hand with the imaginary sexist ruler.

No yeah its essentially that people think that I'm this way because I haven't found the "right" person or that "one day I'll see" what its like to want to be with someone. And I'm like yeah no.....It's also something I feel quite strongly about for ideological reasons so it makes it that much more annoying.

The worst is when people get annoyed that I DONT get jealous. Like people want me to give two fucks about what they are doing with their body with who and when and then get mad at me when I don't care o.O and then try to reason that I'm suppressing something all natural and human.

I guess it more or less comes down to me being more forward in saying what I want but its also hard not to be bullied by the norm. But its getting better.

Having to explain things to family is awful too b/c who I sleep with and whether I am sleeping with the boy (or girl) I bring to dinner is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS or anyone elses! They are constantly trying to box me in and define what I am in terms of my relationships with other people. RAWR.

[Leman Russ]

Actually, I tried to keep it as gender neutral as possible.

But, I feel your pain, monkey. I get this reaction just about every day when I tell people I don't want any more kids. Yes, I am an incredibly devoted father. Yes, I love every second spent with my child. Yes, I wish there were 26 hours in a day so I could have more time with her. No, I don't want anymore kids. No, I don't want anything to do with yours, either.

People have spent the last 6 years telling me I would grow out of it, and that I'd change my mind, and that I'd meet "the right person I'd want to have more with". Yet year after year, they're still wrong. I just don't get why people have to constantly try and shoehorn others into their own visions. Like the married people who are always trying to fix up their single friends, I guess they just can't fathom how a good dad can not be interested in doing it all over again.

[Piko]

Saw the girl again. Not only does she have a guy friend (of three years), but she's kinda "out there". At first I thought, "OK, she has a bf. Now what?". But the more the talk to her, I'm more and more uninterested... ah well.

[Dra508]

People have spent the last 6 years telling me I would grow out of it, and that I'd change my mind, and that I'd meet "the right person I'd want to have more with". Yet year after year, they're still wrong. I just don't get why people have to constantly try and shoehorn others into their own visions. Like the married people who are always trying to fix up their single friends, I guess they just can't fathom how a good dad can not be interested in doing it all over again.

You are not alone. I know a guy just like you. Has one, is done, leave him alone. People don't know how - it's quite amazing. I'll ask you a question though - you said her, so you have a daughter. Never ever feel like maybe another so I could have a boy?

[Space Suicide]

Saw the girl again. Not only does she have a guy friend (of three years), but she's kinda "out there". At first I thought, "OK, she has a bf. Now what?". But the more the talk to her, I'm more and more uninterested... ah well.

I see, I see.

Zany good or bad?

[Piko]

I see, I see.

Zany good or bad?

At first I was like, "does having a boyfriend matter?". Then I got to know her better, and realized she's just not my type, personality wise. Plus, she's nine years younger than I am, and it shows. I like being around younger girls for some reason. Fun to be around I guess. She makes random cat sounds too... I'm still being nice and everything. Fine for a friend, but nothing beyond that.

[Leman Russ]

You are not alone. I know a guy just like you. Has one, is done, leave him alone. People don't know how - it's quite amazing. I'll ask you a question though - you said her, so you have a daughter. Never ever feel like maybe another so I could have a boy?

Nope. From day one I am glad I had a daughter. I never got the whole "someone to pass on my name" feeling that some people get. It's been really fun doing a lot of things typically seen father/son activities with her, like teaching her baseball, watching sports, etc...and I love doing all the dad/daughter stuff like tea parties, nail painting, and doing hair. She gets quite a kick out of it too

[playwithfire]

Has anyone on here never been in a monogamous relationship? I don't think I'm capable of monogamy in my life (something I quite like about myself) and I've been looking for words of advice in terms of how to navigate in terms of constantly having to explain myself to people I love, like and just want to fool around with. It's already really annoying and I'm still a youngin'.

I haven't. The closest thing was in college when I was kind of involved with a guy over a long distance and we both kind of operated on an understanding that if we hooked up with someone else, we'd end things. But, at 23 I've never been in an official relationship.

I've never had to be monogamous, so while I've been monogamous in practice, it's not how my brain works, I always think about other people like I can pursue them, if that makes any sense. I think I'm capable of it, but I honestly don't know.

Whether or not I'm monogamous is actually something I find kind of confusing, but, on the bright side there's no pressure for me to be right now.

There are lots of poly people out there, just be up front about it and you'll find similar people and avoid surprising others.

edit- After seeing your response. Yeah, people who don't understand you are gonna ask you weird questions. That's super lame. I guess you can always decline to talk about it?

[botley]

No yeah its essentially that people think that I'm this way because I haven't found the "right" person or that "one day I'll see" what its like to want to be with someone. And I'm like yeah no.....It's also something I feel quite strongly about for ideological reasons so it makes it that much more annoying.

Who are these people with whom you're constantly having to repeat these conversations? Friends? Family? Lovers? Is it that you place stock in their value-judgments even though they are coming from a place of ignorance? I get bummed out as anyone else about the state of repressed sexuality in our culture but I tend to just let people hold on to their prejudices, and live my own life as I see fit. I'm not into ideological evangelism except where it is clearly a matter of life and death. At the end of the day, it's just sex.

The worst is when people get annoyed that I DONT get jealous. Like people want me to give two fucks about what they are doing with their body with who and when and then get mad at me when I don't care o.O and then try to reason that I'm suppressing something all natural and human.

Again, ignorance. Anyone who presumes to understand what is natural for YOU is behaving like an idiot.

I guess it more or less comes down to me being more forward in saying what I want but its also hard not to be bullied by the norm. But its getting better.

I feel you. Once you see through the facade of "normality" most people around us have enforced over top of the broad, bewildering spectrum of human desires it's shitty feeling like you have to play the game too. But the fact is, you don't have to, most of the time, as long as you're honest with yourself and other people.

Having to explain things to family is awful too b/c who I sleep with and whether I am sleeping with the boy (or girl) I bring to dinner is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS or anyone elses! They are constantly trying to box me in and define what I am in terms of my relationships with other people. RAWR.

This can be brutally painful but you really should try being totally honest in piping up and telling them when these judgments and questions make you feel uncomfortable; instead of repressing that feeling, let it out in a healthy, honest way. If you have love and trust in your family then this will be painful but ultimately worth it. Afterwards, when they feel like prying, they'll be more inclined to give it a second thought before the question even leaves their lips.

Just my two cents.

[allegro]

You are not alone. I know a guy just like you. Has one, is done

There are a lot of us here on ETS that one-up that:

We have NONE and we're done.

[Leman Russ]

There are a lot of us here on ETS that one-up that:

We have NONE and we're done.

Very true. The none and doners that I know also get quite a few "oh you'll change your mind later" remarks as well.

[allegro]

Nobody ever said that to me. Ever.

But, I did get a LOT of "but, who will take care of you when you're [old, sick, dying, bored, need money]?"

[pigpen]

Last night in Madison I met this beautiful, charming, funny, lady at The Wood Brothers show.. Then I met her boyfriend..

While that may sound like a bummer of a story, it reminded me of what it feels like when I'm ACTUALLY attracted to/compelled by a girl.
I've been going back and forth on how I felt about the girl I mentioned earlier in this thread, and meeting this girl last night really clarified things for me. I want to feel all swoony and lustful for a woman, and I'm just not getting that from her.

Fucking boyfriends.


My buddy texted me while I was talking to her, he told me to get her number..But at that point I already knew what the deal was. He told me later that he kept watching her steal smiley glances at me during the entire show.. Not cool, universe. Not cool.

[Pillfred]

After a few trysts with some random ladies I met one the other day who i think i may like. Not to say i didn't like the others but the signs came fairly quick that shit was not gonna be good. I got my own brand of crazy that doesn't need any tag alongs. This girl however is a roommate of a girl i work with and i ran into them the other night downtown. Ended up going back to their place, was totally cool with crashing on the couch but that didn't happen. Then we ended up basically just chilling in bed the whole next day. Now this i guess could still be whatever, but it seemed really just kind of natural and easy. Clearly this is may be way to soon to invest too much into it, and though we've talked since we havent hung out since. I could go either way i guess, as far as type of relationship goes, as somewhat similar to some of the above posts I'm not really sure what I wan't at this point other than maybe someone who's fun to hang with etc. In any event im pretty stoked to meet a cool seemingly level headed generally stable woman. It's weird as im coming into this sort of thing fairly late in the game. Hopefully it works out as she's really funny.

[slave2thewage]

So, my boyfriend confessed to letting some guy go down on him when I was in England the other week...

[Fixer808]

Doesn't count, if you believe Bill Clinton.

Seriously, though, that's a dick move (no pun intended)...

[JessicaSarahS]

So, my boyfriend confessed to letting some guy go down on him when I was in England the other week...

What an asshole.

[wikkid]

Well isn't this fun. I am back in the old hood. Haha! So after weeding through the mass of psychos that were waiting for me after divorce, I thought I had found a nice girl that was fun, liked me for me, and was genuine and somewhat normal, it turns out she lived an hour away and that was too far for her to ever make it to visit me. So as things dragged on and I went to see her a lot, things fizzled out and I started to get tired of being the only one who seemed to even try to hang out. We called it quits after two or three weeks of me NOT going to visit her in her boring ass world. I need adventure, fun, music, and more importantly need to feel like someone wants to see me not just the other way around. Time for a hard reset button in my life. I have a great job, a great kid and a lust for more than a cookie cutter Better Homes and Garden suburbian lifestyle. I've decided that the best place is single until somebody comes looking for a man in the best part of his life. I am happier than ever, still going to as many shows as possible and having the time of my life raising my son. That is my rant and I am sticking to it.

Hi Dra and allegro. I miss your advice.

[Dra508]

Hi Dra and allegro. I miss your advice.

Clearly, ya'll don't need my advice.

[allegro]

^ Um ... Ditto!

[slave2thewage]

Single again! Anyone happen to have any gay friends who would look like Matt Bellamy?

[Lunatica]

Two years in December!!!

We are happily living together and better than ever.

My unsolicited advice for all the single ladies: Work over and resolve your issues with your Father, preferably with a nice and understanding woman psychologist.

[allegro]

Living together?! Awesome!!!

Yeah, that's some good advise. (Even after you're not single. I probably should follow your lead.)

[Pillfred]

Things are going pretty good with the new lady friend. Met some of her friends as siblings the other night while out. They all seem pretty cool and seem to like me as well. Really odd how this came about but so far, so good.

[playwithfire]

This is going to be a long post. I'm trying to figure things out.

Non-monogamy is confusing. I truly feel like it's worthwhile, but I need to learn how to be more positive about me and my gentleman friend's situation. We're currently not hooking up with other people (not that I ever have hooked up with someone else... due basically exclusively to the fact that I don't tend to meet new people and am kind of lazy about making that happen) since I feel pretty weird about the idea of it right now, but that's something I want to be temporary. I want to be poly, I just want it to be awesome and positive. I'm going to read Opening Up and stuff; I want to figure this out.

It doesn't help that the times he has done something with someone else, it's not been a positive experience for me.

We've always been this vague non-relationship... but we're eachother's "primary partner" or whatever and we do care about each other and are set on keeping each other as the "most important" person or whatever. If that makes any sense... but we've both been relationship-shy and have never really wanted to commit. It's a relationship of some form, but we don't really call each other boyfriend and girlfriend.

The first time he had sex with someone (in like July and this was the first time he'd done ANYTHING with someone else when we were seeing each other) was not that long after he'd introduced some ideas like... he wanted to know that there was a chance this could become a relationship one day or whatever... so we were trying to figure that out and just weren't very solid. So I was trying to view things as something serious, seeing if I could, etc... Not a good time to hook up with someone else. I don't have positive feelings about that. He did it one other time with her, and that time he forgot to promptly tell me, which also wasn't okay, but not as big of a deal as him hooking up with her in the first place.

I want to feel GOOD about him hooking up with someone else, and what I've learned from all of this is that when we're not being monogamous, I want US to be super super solid and communicative and secure. Because I don't feel comfortable with it when we're not.

The other two times he's done anything with people was just making out... once when super drunk with a friend of ours (completely 100% fine with me) and once with a girl at a party I'd also been at, this was a few weeks ago... which is a long story, but basically I wasn't cool with it at all and felt like it was a party foul. He'd asked my permission as I was leaving the club and I was (and had been) super depressed and I basically told him to do whatever and that it was fine. It was hard for me to really think about it and make a decision that quickly. So, maybe I gave permission and I'll own that, but I realized afterward that I felt pretty bad about it and that he wouldn't have been cool with it if the tables had been reversed. It wasn't a jealousy thing, it was a feeling disrespected thing. And, to me, you shouldn't do something you'd mind me doing. He basically said he knows I'm cool with different things... but to me that kind of comes down to you seeing a chance to make out with someone and going for it. He ended up feeling really, really, really crappy about all of that.

And of course, I wouldn't be cool with them hooking up again, and he feels like he led her on. I think he should have assumed after I took it so badly that I wouldn't be fine with it. I don't really know this girl... it'd be different to me if we were friends or something, but we're not, and I felt like she was kinda rude.

So like, for the most part, the experiences we've had so far with poly stuff haven't been great. And I want to be good at this, and I want to feel good about him hooking up with other people. I'll take any and all advice. Right now, I think we just need to work on our relationship and being more solid with each other. I need to figure out why I feel insecure or jealous, and what to do about it. I feel like most things come from me feeling like I mean less to him, and that he'll hook up with someone basically because he finds them attractive and because he can... which is a fine reason! Why do I have a problem with that! Is it the meaning less thing?

Basically, this shit is confusing.

[allegro]

Magtig may disagree with me on this, but I think human beings are hardwired for serial monogamy. The tinges of jealous are biological. Because, biologically, we're supposed to mate, but we're also supposed to be concerned about having a reliable partner who's going to hunt and gather and provide while we nest. Of course, this doesn't apply to our modern lives with modern philosophies and intellect, but it's hard fighting biology. Just like it's hard for us to fight biology by mating for life, because humans are not hardwired to mate for life, either.

Intellectually, we can sort all this out and it makes perfect sense. But, do not think that you have some emotional baggage or deficiency because it makes you feel funny. That's just normal stuff, not a symptom.

edit: HOWEVER ... commitment avoidance being the primary reason for polyamory COULD be something you may want to investigate. It reminds me of friends who were attracted to married men and couldn't figure out why. Just sayin'.

[icklekitty]

Perhaps you're not in a poly phase of your life (either it's not right for THIS relationship, or THIS guy's particular habits), or perhaps polyamory (which is different to an open relationship in my opinion - more "baby polyamory", because it seems to be a relationship with some outside play sometimes) isn't really for you.

Here is some anal micro-analysis and hopefully not too much comparison to myself:

"not that I ever have hooked up with someone else... due basically exclusively to the fact that I don't tend to meet new people and am kind of lazy about making that happen" - Just want to say that I understand this perspective. Poly or not, there still needs to be someone around that makes you want to give a shit to do something in the first place.

"I want to be poly" - You repeat this a couple of times. To me "I want to be poly" is a bit like "I want to be gay" - you can test the waters but it's not really something you can force.


"The first time he had sex with someone (in like July and this was the first time he'd done ANYTHING with someone else when we were seeing each other) was not that long after he'd introduced some ideas like... he wanted to know that there was a chance this could become a relationship one day or whatever... so we were trying to figure that out and just weren't very solid. So I was trying to view things as something serious, seeing if I could, etc... Not a good time to hook up with someone else. I don't have positive feelings about that. He did it one other time with her, and that time he forgot to promptly tell me, which also wasn't okay, but not as big of a deal as him hooking up with her in the first place." - I can see how this might make what you're trying to sort out between the two of your confusing. Can you pinpoint what didn't make you feel positive? How was his sleeping with someone else contradictory to how deep of a relationship this was to be? Regardless of the depth, poly largely means doing things with other people is OK. The first time he slept with her, did he tell you straight away?


"I want to feel GOOD about him hooking up with someone else, and what I've learned from all of this is that when we're not being monogamous, I want US to be super super solid and communicative and secure. Because I don't feel comfortable with it when we're not." - Expand on that. Is he lying or holding things from you? Is he hiding things? These are important things to be worried about whether or not you are polyamorous.

"once with a girl at a party I'd also been at, this was a few weeks ago... which is a long story, but basically I wasn't cool with it at all and felt like it was a party foul. He'd asked my permission as I was leaving the club and I was (and had been) super depressed and I basically told him to do whatever and that it was fine. It was hard for me to really think about it and make a decision that quickly". - is the problem that he was doing this in front of you? Why was his kissing another girl not OK here but OK in other situations? For me, another girl is another girl, no matter of the circumstances, and I've never been unhappy about my partners suddenly seeing/pursuing someone (to be honest if I were in a shit mood, that would really cheer me up as I'd feel happiness vicariously through theirs). It's just a question that would never cross my mind. But if there are circumstances that you're not comfortable with the two of you need to establish rules, else he'll get confused and you'll get upset. This is an issue of consent for you, which is why I proposed that this could be more of an open relationship earlier. BUT If they're actively neglecting me, that's different - was he "ditching" you to go to her?

"And of course, I wouldn't be cool with them hooking up again, and he feels like he led her on. I think he should have assumed after I took it so badly that I wouldn't be fine with it. I don't really know this girl... it'd be different to me if we were friends or something, but we're not, and I felt like she was kinda rude." - This is a whole mixed bag of things. What happened to tarnish this hook-up in future? Is she that shit a person or is it something else? "He should have assumed" implies a breakdown of communication on your part. Do you need to know this girl? Do you want a relationship with the third party too (this is a triad relationship), and is it important that the two of you get on? Personally I don't give a shit so long as they're good to my partner and I don't get AIDS at any point.

Essentially, not being jealous is the key. I KNOW my partners feel X about me and so long as they commit to what they state (one I'm really deeply involved with emotionally and the other I only commit to as a "really sexy friend") I believe them and trust them. Sometimes I won't see either of them for weeks on end, sometimes I hear that they're actively pursuing other girls, and that's fine. That has no bearing on me. For me, this isn't something I've had to learn, and I don't know if it should come naturally or if I'm just lucky. It's like...a parent with several children. When a new baby comes along the love for the older kid doesn't whine. Although not all kids want new siblings! One of my partners does have a girlfriend who gets quite jealous, but she willingly came forward to be girlfriend number 2 (he has 4 in total), so I can't really explain her anxieties.

[allegro]

^ Wow, that was a really interesting post, thanks for that!

[playwithfire]

Well, me being commitment shy and me liking polyamory feel like different things. And I think maybe I'm less afraid of commitment than I was... Especially if commitment doesn't mean monogamy. I like being emotionally committed, I guess. I dunno.

And, I do think some level of jealousy is healthy. I just need to figure out what provokes that or feeling insecure or whatevs. I think the main thing is our lack of an emotionally solid feeling relationship.

Thanks for the input!

[Dra508]

For me, this isn't something I've had to learn, and I don't know if it should come naturally or if I'm just lucky.

To me, THIS sums it up for me as to what and how you are poly-amorous..

And I agree wholeheartedly with allergo's comment about serial monogamy. At a personal level that one scares me. I'm dating someone who clearly is that way and I don't want to end up being on the bad end of a seven-year itch.