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Faceplams: I think that's entirely possible.Originally Posted by Corvus T. Cosmonaut
Plus, I don't want Santorum out of the race yet. His crazy, lunatic opinions are comedy gold.
Active Member
I think that's entirely possible.
Plus, I don't want Santorum out of the race yet. His crazy, lunatic opinions are comedy gold.
Throbbing Member
I hope they all stay in, makes for good TV.
Active Member
The longer he sticks around, the more opportunity to give his ideas mainstream legitimacy.
Last edited by aggroculture; 04-08-2012 at 07:03 PM.
Throbbing Member
Damn he's out now.
Administrator
I will miss the crazy that Rick Santorum brought to the primaries but there's no way he could get elected. He had no problem being caught in his lies and was able to do it shamelessly.
Throbbing Member
It aint over yet
tempus est umbra in mente
No man, it's over. Vegas has closed betting odds on Ron Paul. There's no chance in hell that he'll be the nominee.
Active Member
There was never a chance Ron Paul was going to be the nominee. Not even a tiny bit of a chance.
It was laughable to hear them announcing the results of today's primaries on the radio. There hasn't really been a question of who was going to be the nominee in months, and the deal was officially sealed weeks ago. This is just going through the motions now.
Throbbing Member
I thought this article about Romney's view on women was rather interesting, given the recent 'war on women' scare.
Stubby Member
The primary only ended in the minds of the propagando's on tv and the people that lap up the garbage they spew. Ron Paul has the support of the people, and it's plain to see if you have the mental capacity to search out information on your own. Just look at the size of the crowds at campaign rallies for the last 2 months. Paul is getting 8,000 here, 5,000 there, 4,500 in rain in Philadelphia. No one candidate is drawing these numbers. The AP numbers are guesses, and nothing more despite the news outlets reporting them as facts. The AP site says as much in the disclaimer at the bottom. Look on YouTube at all the videos of fraud at the county level by GOP chairs when they realize that Ron Paul has the nnumbers to win. Now we have the GOP national board threatening not to seat Nevada's delegates if Paul wins a majority of them this weekend. The establishment is scared and reeking of desperation. Turn off your tv's and say hello to the real world.
Administrator
Ron Paul may be able to put butts into seats at rallies but they have yet to make a significant dent come election day.
Active Member
Yeah. We're the naive ones.
Throbbing Member
Ron Paul has the enthusiastic support of a few while Romney has the lackluster support of many. Paul's supporters are hijacking the delegate election process in several states. They can do it because no one is interested in the later stages of the delegate selection which means that Ron Paul delegates secretly occupy slots that would belong to Romney supporters who sometimes don't attend these later states. Paul needs a majority of elected delegates in 5 states to have a presence at the GOP convention. He has probably already succeeded at that. He won't capture the nomination but he can cause some turmoil and get some concessions.
Throbbing Member
Obama, supports gay marriage.
Active Member
He also said, "I think it should be left up to the states." He also said "I don't want to make this into a national issue." In other words, I'm up for re-election in six months and I want to get the support of the gay community (and half this country) without ruffling too many feathers. I mean, I support gay marriage and all, but not THAT much.
Sorry, but this just seems like typical politician bullshit. I guess it's better than nothing, but this wasn't nearly far enough. And "leaving it up to the states" is not ok.
Edit: Unless...and this is a big unless...he doesn't want to ruffle too many feathers just yet. Once re-elected, if he comes back and says, "Yes, it IS a national issue and no, it shouldn't be up to the states," then I'll gladly stand behind him on this. If he never does that? Then I don't think he's going far enough, and I don't think he should get a pass because "Oh, well at least he did something." Something is not good enough. We'll see after November if he gets tougher on this or if he's just going to let it slip through the cracks.
Last edited by theruiner; 05-09-2012 at 03:46 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
It may be couched in cautious rhetoric, but it's still a much bolder progressive statement on the issue than any other president has ever made while in the office, and at least that's something to appreciate.
On the other hand, I've been reading some of the user comments on the Fox news site, and while it's a little discouraging to see the crazy bigots come out in response, I think it's fun that it's infuriating so many fundamentalists and neo cons.
Active Member
I understand what you're saying, but to me this is so black and white that I don't really appreciate middle ground anymore (or, at least not very much). Like I said, if it's a political tactic for now, and after November he's going to come out swinging on this, then I'll give him all the credit in the world for it. So, I guess I'll just say I'm in "wait and see" mode and I'll reserve judgment (somewhat) until after the election (and, obviously, a little after that, I don't expect him to come out the day after the election and tackle this first thing).
That does make me happy. I'm sure they're losing their minds. It's amazing to me that there is even a debate about this anymore. There's not a single logical reason I can think of that gay marriage shouldn't be legal. So if these illogical bigots wallowing in their ignorance lose their minds over this then that's pretty awesome.On the other hand, I've been reading some of the user comments on the Fox news site, and while it's a little discouraging to see the crazy bigots come out in response, I think it's fun that it's infuriating so many fundamentalists and neo cons.
tempus est umbra in mente
Well, this all comes on the heels of North Carolina passing their constitutional amendment which not only bans gay marriage, but invalidates civil unions between homosexual couples as well.
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/5/9...SBoPus.twitter
In the face of that sort of bullshit, it's good to see even a luke warm push in the other direction.
Active Member
I agree that it's better than nothing. And having the president make that declaration might help some people who are on the fence realize what's right here.
By the way, speaking of neo-cons, here was the Fox News headline (they've since taken it off their website, but their Twitter feed still has it, so we know it's not fake):
Throbbing Member
Wow...
(ten blablablabla...)
Active Member
Out of morbid curiosity (and because I needed a good laugh), I googled Conservative message boards, and browsed the first two I found. Within just a few posts, on each one, I came across blatant racism. Also, as you can imagine (and as Jinsai mentioned), they're losing their minds about this.
Hairy Member
The GOP has been rushing to get same sex marriage on the state ballots this fall precisely for the reason of dividing Democrats before the fall election. These votes will happen the same day voters decide whether or not to re-elect Obama. So it's basically an attempt to box Obama into a corner and divide the black vote. It's all about shaving a few percentage points from the Democratic vote. Nothing new, but it takes on new prescience with a black candidate.
From the wikipedia article on Wedge Issues:
For example, some Republican strategists have hoped that African Americans, a traditionally Democratic voting bloc, yet also one that possesses some of the most conservative views on matters of homosexuality, may be more inclined to vote for the Republican Party because of their opposition to gay marriage.
Bite me
Meh, Obama's statement is completely fucking useless. Leaving it up to the states leaves DOMA fully intact, and leaves civil unions in states neutered. If the Feds don't recognize the union, it's useless.
The state (Feds) should eliminate the term "marriage," call all unions "civil" (since that's what they are) and let churches call them "marriages" ... or not.
House Always Wins
Good ol' North Carolinny. Ignorant bunch lives here in my state, I'll tell ya what.
Throbbing Member
Its the same as Ronmeys War on Women.I agree that it's better than nothing. And having the president make that declaration might help some people who are on the fence realize what's right here.
By the way, speaking of neo-cons, here was the Fox News headline (they've since taken it off their website, but their Twitter feed still has it, so we know it's not fake):
I dont see what all the fuss is about. It's clearly a political move. He's not gunna do anything about it. AND IF he tried, nothing gets through congress.
tempus est umbra in mente
We have to be realistic though. So much of this is about the terminology, and if the president were to propose eliminating the word "marriage" in any legally recognized sense, it would be political suicide. As technically useless as the statement may be, it's a watershed moment. It's the first time a residing president has stated that he thinks gay marriage should be legal. That's at least something, especially when North Carolina is stooping to ban civil unions.
It just surprises me a little that some people are reacting to his statement so cynically, almost as if it would be preferable if he had made no comment on the matter at all.
Last edited by Jinsai; 05-09-2012 at 09:19 PM.
Bite me
First, he DIDN'T say that he thinks same-sex marriage should be "legal" across the board; if DOMA was eliminated and same-sex marriage was FEDERALLY legal, then the NC law would be unconstitutional. But Obama still doesn't believe in same-sex "marriage" and he says he's been "struggling" with it and it's obvious he's still "struggling" because this is, legally, meaningless. If you still can't collect your partner's social security or file a joint tax return, state's rights are stupid. He equivocated, plain and simple.
Remember, Clinton signed DOMA into law, and he bullshittted his way around that one, too:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/sc...c/clinton.html
Last edited by allegro; 05-09-2012 at 10:12 PM.
Bite me
By the way, for people thinking NC is doing something new, check out how many states have ALREADY banned gay marriage and/or civil unions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...unions_by_type
Throbbing Member
I never understood why people get married in the first place.
Why do you need some third party, be it God or Government, to certify that you love some one?
Throbbing Member
oh yay this discussion again!
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