The Dark Knight Rises

[Wretchedest]

I didnt see the robin thing coming... its definitely something that occured to me even in advance of this movie, but they threw me off by giving him a different name. It was cool and all, and i see why they did it. By naming that character Dick Grayson or calling him Robin, the audience will see him totally differently. Theres a different level of scrutiny that would be aplkied. On the flip side, it also feels like you can kind of just slap the name robin on anyone that helps batman.... like its an arbitrary label...

Of course, i shouldve picked up on the backstory thing...

I did see talia coming a mile off though...

[orestes]

Anne Hathaway really exceeded my expectations. I didn't think she had it in her. It was good to see Catwoman playing deputy to Batman.

How many people saw the Robin thing coming a mile off? I guessed when he had his first conversation with Batman, but don't know if that was supposed to be the case.

It's been a good summer for action blockbusters so far. I'm not used to them, so I still find it hard to suspend belief (BW got thrown into Bane's prison, lived in captivity, and escaped, but somehow STILL had the clean slate to give to Selina - wtf?) but it didn't spoil my overall enjoyment. I'm not sure I really liked Miranda's story twist, though - it made Bane more interesting, but made her own character a bit crap. And some explanation for why the Scarecrow randomly pops up as judge would have been good.

But I suppose it's better that we don't end up with a five hour film. Although I would have totally been ok with that film lasting longer.

Scarecrow makes sense because of his association with Ra's Al Ghul and who better to preside over a kangaroo court than a psychiatrist who tested people's fears.

[orestes]

Banes motives were only skin deep, which is to say that he didnt have an y hidden agendas or anything. But his whole tactic of rallying people against the disparity in wealth really implies that those ideas are childish, or coming from the wrong place. I think its a stretch NOT to see any Randian subtext... self preservation, btw is central to those ideas...
Theres even a secene where the movie tells us that without all that extra money, Bruce Wayne cant help the orphans! And he cant be batman either! Who can save us but the very rich?????

(Keep in mind that all the stuff at the beginning and setting up shop directly below Fox's secret A.S. division was part of his job for Daggett.)

Lies and propaganda were what was keeping Gotham City "safe" and "peaceful". That is what Bane was rallying against and goes at the heart of what the League of Shadows fought against. Mere parlor tricks, remember?

[Wretchedest]

Hmmm I dont know, the League of Shadows always saw Gotham that way, and are loaded with there own lies and propaghanda. He wasnt fighting those things at all, they were using those things as a ploy to get a portion of Gotham on their side to blow it up. Thats kind of what im getting at, the idea that populist messages are just lies fed to us to serve someone else. Thats one of the most major ideas in this movie.

[icklekitty]

Scarecrow makes sense because of his association with Ra's Al Ghul and who better to preside over a kangaroo court than a psychiatrist who tested people's fears.

I meant more with the way it unfolded. Same with Miranda's story.



Oh also, I did a little hur-hur at "holed up with eight inch nails and peeing into jars"

[Space Suicide]

So why are you bring this all up then if it isn't top news? Headlines forum, please. The death threats don't even need to be mentioned since they originated with a bunch of self-righteous fanboys who can't respect that there are people out there who aren't as wowed the movie as others are.

Back on topic.

Apologies. I still kept it in hindsight since this thread is related to everything in the namesake of it. Felt fitting, awful or not.

I'll be seeing this tomorrow afternoon with a friend. Can't say I'm thrilled about it, to be completely honest. I should still enjoy it.

[richardp]

Scarecrow makes sense because of his association with Ra's Al Ghul and who better to preside over a kangaroo court than a psychiatrist who tested people's fears.

Exactly. Plus, it was also just a cool way to have yet another Scarecrow cameo. Although, I feel The Joker probably could have done that role too, if Heath Ledger was still alive.

[orestes]

Hmmm I dont know, the League of Shadows always saw Gotham that way, and are loaded with there own lies and propaghanda. He wasnt fighting those things at all, they were using those things as a ploy to get a portion of Gotham on their side to blow it up. Thats kind of what im getting at, the idea that populist messages are just lies fed to us to serve someone else. Thats one of the most major ideas in this movie.

You misunderstood me. Bane wasn't fighting against the League of Shadows' ideology but the lies propagated by Gotham's elite. Now whether or not Bane believed he was liberating its citizens is another debate.

[gini]

This was the first movie I've ever seen at midnight so I knew it would be a good time. Loved the movie all the way. The ending was perfect and appreciate that they set it up for you to think what could be next. I was kind of expecting Batman to be in the batcave when Robin arrived. My sister and boyfriend were convinced that there would be another film. I can't wait to see it again and I'm thinking of going tomorrow.

[Wretchedest]

You misunderstood me. Bane wasn't fighting against the League of Shadows' ideology but the lies propagated by Gotham's elite. Now whether or not Bane believed he was liberating its citizens is another debate.

I understood you perfectly! I wassaying that this was a false motivation, which i suppose would be my stance on that other debate. He and Talia are downright open about it too. Especially in that scene where Bane leaves Bruce in the prison.

[owinn]

You misunderstood me. Bane wasn't fighting against the League of Shadows' ideology but the lies propagated by Gotham's elite. Now whether or not Bane believed he was liberating its citizens is another debate.

I can't see how he would ever have thought that, the plan to me seemed like Gotham was going to be destroyed along with everyone in it with no chance of salvation. He was going to give them the pretense of hope in the form of the game of "who's the trigger" when no one actually was, he wanted to torture its citizens.

[ltrandazzo]

I can't see how he would ever have thought that, the plan to me seemed like Gotham was going to be destroyed along with everyone in it with no chance of salvation. He was going to give them the pretense of hope in the form of the game of "who's the trigger" when no one actually was, he wanted to torture its citizens.

That actually goes back to line in Begins where Ra's said that the League is check against humanity. The 5 months was for torture, but also a message to the rest of the world that if they were to become as corrupt as Gotham that they would suffer the same fate.

[Wretchedest]

Maybe im cutting deeper than it goes here, but the League of Shadows real motivations seem to lie in their power over humanity, rather than a fight against corruption. Thats why they use those methods. Ra's even admits im Begins that they were the ones who sent Gotham into a downward spiral in the first place. THEY corrupted it and it was because of the size of gotham more than amything else. Thomas Wayne proved that something could be done about corruption outside of just wasting the place. He interfered with their plan of corrupting it. So the plan wasnt to cleanse of corruption. From the begining it was just to destroy the place.

[orestes]

You're going to have to refresh my memory because I don't remember Ra's mentioning size as the motivating factor to destroy Gotham.

[jarj]

Awesome end to the trilogy. TDK will still stand as my favourite of the three, as it's such a great stand alone film (The Batman vs "Heat" kind of story is just so good)

The scene in which Batman gets the utter shit kicked out of him is perfect. My only issues with the whole films are:

-Bruce sleeping with Miranda/Tahlia came out of nowhere.
-The scene after Batman's been chased by the police in which he aids Catwoman against Bane's henchman - why was he there?
-The whole Robin thing - there was no need, it was quite clear that Blake would take up the mantle of the Bat, there was no need to just throw the name Robin out there, it doesn't even make sense.

Catwoman's character was perfect, so subtle. I was surprised by the chemistry between Bale and Hathaway. I love the fact that this film very loosely references The Dark Knight Returns multiple times.

[Ryan]

"Who made you the brah-thority, brah?" - Randy Marsh

[Wretchedest]

I just watched Begins, with my friends a couple of days ago, and when he's talking about all of the civilizations they've toppled he absolutely mentions that it's because they grew too big. We ended up having a discussion about the discrepency between what he says he's trying to do, cleanse things of corruption, and what he's actually doing, corrupting these places and attacking the lower class. It's probably more in the fact that you can only write a comic book villain so deep, and that he's basically crazy, than a deliberate tinkering of motivations.

All beside my original point though, which is that they've essentially villainized populist movements and their goals, the most obvious and relevant one being occupy Wall St. and there goals. Whether that philosophy comes from Rand or Dickens or Barney the Dinosaur is secondary because a lot of media has explored these ideas. And whether or not Bane actually believed in the movement or was taking advantage of them or torturing them is also peripheral to that point, since either way it undercuts the credibility of those movements by rooting their goals in villainery and depicting their desired outcome as some kind of post-apocalyptic nightmare. It further reinforces its point by having the 1% and figures of authority be the hero in this situation. There's no subtlety here: the imagery and the dialogue evoke this throughout the entire movie.

I have my disagreements and agreements with those philosophy's, but I think it's pretty rad that a superhero movie can touch those ideas and at least get people to talk about them. It's cool that they even tried.

But yeah, him sleeping with Tate was the dumbest part of the movie. It's time that they could have kept things going with Selina Kyle somehow...

[orestes]

Still, you still would never see John Galt save the people of Gotham.

[Christo]

SPOILERS

Enjoyed it, but nowhere near as much as The Dark Knight. I guessed both that JGL was the replacement Batman AND that Marion's character was the main evil ring leader within like the first 20 minutes. Not to mention that tacky bit in the restaurant at the end.

Otherwise I liked it. Think I will enjoy it much more the second time around when I'm not second guessing the ending.

[Lutz]

I also picked Miranda as Talia the second they said the League of Shadows was involved. They would have been better off making the reveal earlier in the movie and then actually doing something with her in character as Talia for the rest of the movie instead of playing it out as long as they could for a surprise twist that was anything but. They could have used the sex scene as the reveal instead.

The scene after Batman's been chased by the police in which he aids Catwoman against Bane's henchman - why was he there?

Because the guy who Catwoman burgles is the same guy whose thugs perform the hit on Wall Street. Batman successfully tracks the thugs back to base after the hit which intersects at the same time with Catwoman's escape.

[Amaro]

I don't know why but I genuinely was not aware of Talia twist or Robin till they were formally exposed... *shrug*

[onthewall2983]

I knew the thing about Cotillard's character from inadvertently reading a spoiler here. I just didn't figure it would be in so late.

[Mr. Blaileen]

Fantastic movie. More thoughts to come on that.

Two minor gripes: Would have liked to see Batman be badass in a few more scenes..not enough of him IMO.

Also, Talia's death looked absolutely laughable.

[Ruined]

Just got back from watching it and enjoyed it immensely (still digesting the mounds of information packed into the flick. My initial thoughts: Fitting end to the trilogy. For me, Joseph Gordon-Levitt was the most compelling person on screen: He brought a certain dignity, heroism, weight and melancholy to his role. Oddly, for me at least, he proved more interesting than anyone of the folks in masks: Hell, he seemed to be the person to take the most risks and, as Batman noted, without a mask. I guess the fact that his character showed more heart than all of them, to the point of comforting children in the face of certain death, really hit me. Overall, I feel all involved did a wonderful job performing their roles (Hathaway and Hardy, in particular). However, JGL just seemed to be the constant heart of the movie and I loved the way they left it open: No formal training or cheesy montage of JGL learning various martial arts techniques/special equipment development/superhero preparation to be Gotham's new hero. They simply led him to the cave and left it up to him to figure it out. Open-ended and perfect!

[Ryan]

Just got back from it, loved it!

[owinn]

I just watched Begins, with my friends a couple of days ago, and when he's talking about all of the civilizations they've toppled he absolutely mentions that it's because they grew too big. We ended up having a discussion about the discrepency between what he says he's trying to do, cleanse things of corruption, and what he's actually doing, corrupting these places and attacking the lower class. It's probably more in the fact that you can only write a comic book villain so deep, and that he's basically crazy, than a deliberate tinkering of motivations.

All beside my original point though, which is that they've essentially villainized populist movements and their goals, the most obvious and relevant one being occupy Wall St. and there goals. Whether that philosophy comes from Rand or Dickens or Barney the Dinosaur is secondary because a lot of media has explored these ideas. And whether or not Bane actually believed in the movement or was taking advantage of them or torturing them is also peripheral to that point, since either way it undercuts the credibility of those movements by rooting their goals in villainery and depicting their desired outcome as some kind of post-apocalyptic nightmare. It further reinforces its point by having the 1% and figures of authority be the hero in this situation. There's no subtlety here: the imagery and the dialogue evoke this throughout the entire movie.

I have my disagreements and agreements with those philosophy's, but I think it's pretty rad that a superhero movie can touch those ideas and at least get people to talk about them. It's cool that they even tried.

But yeah, him sleeping with Tate was the dumbest part of the movie. It's time that they could have kept things going with Selina Kyle somehow...

I get this and it's one of the reasons why this movie, for me, felt like I was watching something important. However that ending... Blake takes up the role of Gotham's protector and he's not what would be deemed the 1% unless you count police officers, which may or may not be unfair - anyway there's something to be said in handing over the keys to a 'normal guy' instead of another billionaire with lots of dangerous toys (toys that are more often than not used against him and the people he wanted to protect).

[Lutz]

I was hoping for a clean reboot after this movie and was disappointed that Nolan's movies were only a thematic trilogy in an ongoing franchise/s.

Of course JGL getting his own Robin movie appeals to me more than these did. I'd also be excited by an Anne Hathaway Catwoman spin off if I had faith anyone in Hollywood could actually write/direct a movie featuring an actual woman as the lead character (sad but true).

[NotoriousTIMP]

Just got back myself as well. Am I the only one who hated Bane's voice? I could have used closed caption at some points.....

[owinn]

I'd also be excited by an Anne Hathaway Catwoman spin off if I had faith anyone in Hollywood could actually write/direct a movie featuring an actual woman as the lead character (sad but true).

There are plenty of big name directors who have had great female performances and that are still going strong - I mean we've had Alien movies all the way from the 70's to 2012 running a full gamut of wonderful directors and writers working with strong female leads. Though there is something in that statement, it's often quoted as being 'brave' to have a female top billing on your action movie unless it's pure titillation like Sucker Punch is. Makes you wonder why we're still to see that Wonder Woman movie or that Ghost in the Shell movie from Spielberg - but then I guess something like GiTS would be another movie about a woman strutting around in tight black leather and kicking people in the nads in bullet time - thinking about it though I guess that's better than watching a bunch of sweaty musclebound dudes hugging and high-fiving each other each other again and again.

[icklekitty]

Just got back myself as well. Am I the only one who hated Bane's voice? I could have used closed caption at some points.....

A lot of critics noted that too.


Is there a good article somewhere concerning the future of the franchise? Sounds like more than speculation has been going on across the last few pages.