Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILERS

[GulDukat]

And another thing, some people seem to treat TOT (esp. ANH and ESB) as a sacred cow, flawless movies, when they weren't. Luke was always a Mary Sue, the Ewoks, the plan to rescue Han in ROTJ made no sense, Luke didn't care when his aunt and uncle died, etc. I love these movies, but I see just as many supposed flaws in them as I see in TLJ.

I would rank order the movies like this (for now)

ESB
TLJ
ANH
R1
ROTJ
TFA
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

[Space Suicide]

The actress who plays her has been in every promotion show and event since TFA. before TLJ she kept saying that they sat down with the writers and they did so many awesoem stuff with Phasma. In one interview she was talking about how cool it was that she could influence her character's (Phasma) personality and whatnot.

Then she gets rekt again, not to mention that she was standing right next to the ones who were to be executed, but after the impact she teleported soemwhere else and returned with her stormtroopers.

1. How can you make someone so fucking lame with such a cool armor?
2. Why do I have to hear her actress talking about the movie, when she's barely in it, and she doesn't do anything important to the plot either. (Remember: it was the droid who caught them, not Phasma)

I agree 100% with that and I like to call her this Trilogy's character that has Boba Fett syndrome.

[thevoid99]

This is my current ranking of all of the official films of the trilogies so far: https://letterboxd.com/thevoid99/lis...series-ranked/

Rogue One is part of a spin-off list you'll find in the descriptions link.

[hellospaceboy]

Given an opportunity to paint with a cleaner canvas, he decides he wants to do an entire 3 movie arc featuring absolutely no characters or worlds or anything from the original 6 films.

...You don't need the Star Wars brand to do that. You can do just do that now if you want, he's Rian Johnson and he just grossed 220 mil on opening weekend. What purpose does it serve you as a director to have it be a Star Wars movie if nothing about it is actually from Star Wars? ...

...He has an opportunity to play with so many stories, so many characters, so many paths not travelled between all the films. Why would you not want to use or explore Boba Fett? Why would you not want to tell early Jedi stories and use Yoda or Qui Gonn or the Old republic or the sith or a million other existing half fleshed out ideas which you could still make your own and take license with.

But no. His ideas are BETTER. His stories are more RELEVANT. Everything else is BORING to him. I can't fathom as a filmmaker getting these opportunities and throwing them aside like they are nothing.

I couldn't agree less with you. I think what's killing SW is this awful need to tie things back to the previous films, like the 2 droids showing up everywhere (C3PO in TLJ was just a prop, right?) From a story point of view, the more we learned about Yoda the worst his character became (he used to sit in meeting rooms with a Jedi council like some corporate cog??? Yikes! And bouncing around with his tiny lightsaber?!?!) the same way we don't need a movie about young Han (trust me, we don't need to see the Millenium Falcon do the Kessel Run, for the love of god).

I always said that the SW universe is so colorful and vast, it's a shame we keep coming back to the same characters over and over. Let some filmmaker make a new tale in this world!

[hellospaceboy]

Very briefly about TLJ. I enjoyed watching it, and I'm only a casual SW fan, so I wasn't worked up about the weaker stuff. It was a great, entertaining 2 hours!

The big issue is the laughable slow speed space chase, which is a terrible premise and I'm shocked that so much of the movie depended of it. The only thing saving those awful scenes is Laura Dern, who is a joy to watch and her presence elevated the otherwise mediocre role. She's fantastic!!!

[Volband]

I agree 100% with that and I like to call her this Trilogy's character that has Boba Fett syndrome.

At least he did something. Phasma is more of a Monty Python character.

Very briefly about TLJ. I enjoyed watching it, and I'm only a casual SW fan, so I wasn't worked up about the weaker stuff. It was a great, entertaining 2 hours!

The big issue is the laughable slow speed space chase, which is a terrible premise and I'm shocked that so much of the movie depended of it. The only thing saving those awful scenes is Laura Dern, who is a joy to watch and her presence elevated the otherwise mediocre role. She's fantastic!!!

That is actually the weakest and laziest point in the movie when you think about it. The state of the arm ships of the First Order can't go faster than the Resistance ships? They can't send out the Tie Interceptors (or what the fuck are they called) to chase them down? Kylo showed us that the Ties (even normal Ties) are faster than those ships, they just can't get cover fire from that distance - but then again, how many Tie would you fucking lose against a medical ship and two other cruisers? The resistance had no small ships left anyway. Also, they could have warp-jumped in front of the Resistance ships and sandwich them. And this is common sense talking, not some "actuaaaallllyyyyy in spaceeee....." mumbo-jumbo.

Death Stars were lazy writings for some tension, but this shit only needed the Benny Hill track in its background to make it complete. It was the equivalent of invisible walls on open fields in video games. You know, when you are in the desert, or a forest and your character just can't get past, because AIR is blocking his path. That's when you know the creators were too lazy to put rocks there or something.

[Dr Channard]

That is actually the weakest and laziest point in the movie when you think about it. The state of the arm ships of the First Order can't go faster than the Resistance ships? They can't send out the Tie Interceptors (or what the fuck are they called) to chase them down? Kylo showed us that the Ties (even normal Ties) are faster than those ships, they just can't get cover fire from that distance - but then again, how many Tie would you fucking lose against a medical ship and two other cruisers? The resistance had no small ships left anyway. Also, they could have warp-jumped in front of the Resistance ships and sandwich them. And this is common sense talking, not some "actuaaaallllyyyyy in spaceeee....." mumbo-jumbo.

That bit of story was strange. It seemed like the first order could have effectively mopped up what was left of the resistance with a few fighter squadrons. In fact they already were, Kylo had already destroyed a hanger full of resistance fighters plus the command bridge. Pulling back the fighters and opting for many hours of ineffective cannon fire was a weird tactical move.

[Jinsai]

I felt that Luke and Han died in a meaningful way that helped move the narrative along, their part in the story ended while Ray/Poe/Fin's is just beginning. It's not like they just had a bridge fall on them in a desert.

I get it, and I don't disagree conceptually... it just has fallen flat for me two times now. The concept is fine, but the execution has been lacking. And really, the way a character dies is just as important as any other aspect of their story... it's their "final act" I guess, and it's just felt like a forced whimper to me.

[Dr Channard]

...It's not like they just had a bridge fall on them in a desert.

WHOA! Whoa man, just..... easy.

[Bachy]

I will say I enjoyed this film more than The Force Awakens. However, it’s not without some major bugaboos. Mainly:

Spoiler: Leia flying through space. Also, arms dealers and a fucking casino? What in the hell was that shit?

You can just feel Disney angling for a Porg movie, and it’s just disgusting.

[Conan The Barbarian]

After a second viewing, still disgusted with the portrayal of Luke, but I think Im coming around to this movie. Thinking of what I really liked about it, mostly the ren and rey stuff.

Also, just mostly accepting what this movie is.

Its hard to hate on star wars for me. Hard to really hate on it. I’ll shit on episodes 1 and 2, but if those fuckers are on tv, Im watching.

Im a dolphins fan, by now I should hate them with a passion, but I can’t stop coming back for more.

Two things I hope happens.

1.) blu rays deleted scenes either explain some more as regards to snoke, the resistance, and the first order. This movie still confuses me on where it starts, as in right after TFA? The first order recuperated that quickly after starkiller base explosion? Anyways, I hope it explains some more.

2.) I hope 9 course corrects some things. Maybe write Rose better. Maybe give Finn a better story this time around. Maybe bring Luke back as a force ghost, properly train Rey, and not act like a fucking whiney douche the whole time.



Anyways yea. Im done talking about this movie. Im ready to move on. Not even going to bother with the solo movie.

The casino city shit will always be worst thing in star wars ever.

[Jinsai]

Seems like Mark Hammill has been pretty outspoken about disliking what they did with his character....

[Dr Channard]

Seems like Mark Hammill has been pretty outspoken about disliking what they did with his character....

He was on the money with that criticism, but to his credit he still acted the hell out of the role. As off as the character was written, his great performance still sold it. Almost everyone, even Carrie Fisher came through pretty strong with performance.

Also, where the hell is thelastdisciple in this thread? What did you think, man? I’d like to hear.

Possible SPOILERS below.

So, for people who are into expanded universe stuff. There seemed to be a few ideas TLJ may have borrowed from KOTOR 2. This might be a little bit of a stretch, but… When Rey was sensing the force on the island she made a comment about Luke, something like him having cut himself off from the force (presumably because of the trauma of the Ben Solo stuff), and he had exiled himself on the island. This is what the Jedi exile did in KOTOR 2 after the traumatic mass shadow generator event on Malachor V, she severed her own connection with the force and was in exile. Also, Ben Solo turns his back on both his masters in the light and dark side of the force, attempting to kill both. Kreia from KOTOR 2 also fell from power both in the light side and dark side. She subsequently forged her own plans to destroy both the jedi and the sith orders. Are these similarities just coincidence?

[Vertigo]

May have taken some inspiration there, but it's a little bit of a stretch. The Exile was literally wounded by her experiences, the disconnection from the Force was involuntary from what I remember. Luke still has all his powers, he just chooses not to use them - it's a lifestyle choice rather than a scar on his being. "Back to nature" with the Force as well as technology. With Kreia, I wondered if they might be taking Snoke in that direction after Force Awakens, but apparently not.

[cashpiles (closed)]

I’m starting a rebellion in the Disney universe...by not watching The Last Jedi... I’m gonna watch it, but I know for sure I’ll be like... “I knew this was going to be a corporate shell”....

[Volband]

He was on the money with that criticism, but to his credit he still acted the hell out of the role. As off as the character was written, his great performance still sold it. Almost everyone, even Carrie Fisher came through pretty strong with performance.

Also, where the hell is thelastdisciple in this thread? What did you think, man? I’d like to hear.

Possible SPOILERS below.

So, for people who are into expanded universe stuff. There seemed to be a few ideas TLJ may have borrowed from KOTOR 2. This might be a little bit of a stretch, but… When Rey was sensing the force on the island she made a comment about Luke, something like him having cut himself off from the force (presumably because of the trauma of the Ben Solo stuff), and he had exiled himself on the island. This is what the Jedi exile did in KOTOR 2 after the traumatic mass shadow generator event on Malachor V, she severed her own connection with the force and was in exile. Also, Ben Solo turns his back on both his masters in the light and dark side of the force, attempting to kill both. Kreia from KOTOR 2 also fell from power both in the light side and dark side. She subsequently forged her own plans to destroy both the jedi and the sith orders. Are these similarities just coincidence?

Half of this movie is a re-hash of previous episodes, so trying to steal something from KOTOR would pretty much be a plus for me at this point. Sadly, when Rey - someone who has been awaken for... 30 hours? - confronts Luke about him cutting himself off, the look on Hamill's face was most likely done while thinking "what the fuck does that even mean?"

It was never really explained what it meant and especially not explained how he regained it just by having a change of heart towards the end, then using the single most powerful Force power we have ever seen in the movies. Luke's story and character are full of inconsistencies WITHIN THE MOVIE, OT knowledge absolutely excluded.

As for Kreia, even if you read after that, it's still not exactly clear what and how it happened. KOTOR 2 had one of the best writings in any RPG I've ever played, but man, so many things were left in the open due to the rush. When I first finished my playthrough, I thought my English was just not good enough to understand the end sequence. Then when I finished it years later again, I had to realize that it just doesn't make sense.

Still, Kreia is a great example, because knowingly or not, she was what they hoped Luke to be. Kreia was written in such an amazing way, that she showed you what being impartial to the whole Jedi/Sith drama means, and had a very interesting angle on it. She wasn't necessarily right, but she made sense. Compared to her, Luke is just some senile old man, who doesn't have a single thought on his own to which he could stick to.
I don't need this shit lightsaber, even though I drew a map so you could bring it to me. No, I won't train you. Okay, I will train you actually. Just 3 lessons though. Btw I can't count to 3, so we will finish after 2. Also, calling them lessons is a stretch. Don't go down that black hole, because it's a copy paste from ESB, except unlike that scene where I meet Vader, you won't find shit. I also cut myself off the Force. Too bad my knife was blunt, so I can still communicate with my sister via the Force. Han died, but other than looking sad in the Falcon, I don't really give a fuck you know. Ben was evil btw. In the OT I was always a very outspoken person, even in situations where I should have just shut the fuck up, but turns out when a few decades pass, I'd rather just slaughter my own pupil than trying to talk with him about this. Btw you can't save him. Yeah, I haven't even met with him for years, but that night... he gave me that look - it was nasty. Never seen anyone coming back from the Dark side with that look. Btw the Jedi must end. Because it was written in my script, so we could use that ambigious line in the trailers and attract people who might believe I am serious. I mean I WAS serious, but I turned a page in my script, and then it said [LUKE CHANGES HIS MIND], so, you know, I changed my mind. The Jedi can not end, and I will sacrifice myself for the cause. A cause I could not be arsed to help out before you came, but after you said your inspirational speech, I got very inspired. I've been a Jedi Master for years, trained under some of the best Jedi ever to live in this galaxy, but boy, oh boy when I saw your naivety, I was like "fuck, I should just off myself somehow".

Mark played his heart out, and you really need to read and evaluate his lines without seeing and hearing him act, because he made everything so genuine. TLJ is the very definition of a shallow movie. If you really want to enjoy it, then watch it once and never touch it again, because it will only get worse.

[eversonpoe]

Also, if eversnope had a thinner skin, he'd be Mr Skeletor himself. Every goddamn thread he finds a way to walk up to the imaginary podium and talk about his agenda, views and how we should behave. Then we have two options: 1. call him out and witness him victimizing himself 2. just accept that he has the privilege to do that, while - hopefully - dressing up as Cpt. America.

hey, hi. what's up? have you ever heard of this thing called not being an asshole? that's basically my goal in life, to not be an asshole. and i don't want the people i interact with to be assholes, either. toward me or toward others. it's just not necessary. so when i see behavior that i find objectionable, that makes me uncomfortable, or makes other people uncomfortable, i call it out. why? because it's really easy to not be an asshole. i would argue, in fact, that it takes way more effort to BE an asshole than to NOT be an asshole. so, like...don't be an asshole. i didn't say anything to you directly in this thread up until now, so i don't quite understand why you're calling me out, other than that me not wanting people to be assholes makes you so uncomfortable, because you're an asshole. i guess? i don't know. maybe just try being nice to people and you'll find that discussions will be more rewarding and interesting.

also, sorry you have so many objections to this movie. it's a shame, because it's a fun film with a lot of great elements that i think came together wonderfully to make something that feels both quintessentially Star Wars and completely fresh. and it's absolutely fine that you feel differently and want to talk about that. but like...do it without being a jerk, eh?

[thelastdisciple]

Also, where the hell is thelastdisciple in this thread? What did you think, man? I’d like to hear.

Haha man I'm still mulling over this movie pretty hard, i saw it on the 19th.

For all the valid criticisms I still really enjoyed the movie but part of me can't help but feel a bit of disappointment or lack of fulfillment.

[Space Suicide]

I love reading replies of people skipping movies here and everywhere as if a simple decision of seeing a movie as a form of optional entertainment with life means a damn.

[cashpiles (closed)]

I love reading replies of people skipping movies here and everywhere as if a simple decision of seeing a movie as a form of optional entertainment with life means a damn.

It means a great damn. A god damn great damn. Buying a ticket is like voting.... You can either support the “good ones”.... or you can “Trump it up.”

As for Disney’s involvement with Star Wars.... It’s like supporting Trump IMO.

[Space Suicide]

It means a great damn. A god damn great damn. Buying a ticket is like voting.... You can either support the “good ones”.... or you can “Trump it up.”

As for Disney’s involvement with Star Wars.... It’s like supporting Trump IMO.

Sure I get it but you're basing opinions off shit you've read or heard elsewhere. Who knows you might even like it but hey if you can tell what you like no issues. I just don't get the point caving to other's opinions.

The outrage this movie has caused makes me have a distaste for being in this fandom. The childish behavior and vitriol spewed is some of the worst I've seen in a long time in regards to a fictional movie and its franchise.

Don't see how watching a movie with no real world propaganda equates to "Supporting Trump" but whatever.

[DVYDRNS]

Fuck. It's a movie about space wizards.

I love how some of you are "disgusted"

Get a fucking life and a grip on reality.

Child molestation disgusts me. Raping people. Slaughtering fellow human beings in the name of "God" and religion. All those things "disgust me"

This, this is a effing movie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[marodi]

I've been reading this thread since the movie came out. I've seen the movie. I have my opinion about the movie and I don't believe my opinion matters more -or less- than any of yours. So here it is.

It's a good movie; it' enjoyable, it's funny and sad. It's well made but it's not perfect. As movie goes: it's worth its ticket price. But to me, it's not Star Wars.

I've thought a good deal about this in the last few days. As I've said often, I'm one of those who saw what you all call A New Hope when it came out in 1977. The only privilege I believe it gives me is the lifelong right of calling it "Star Wars" since that was its title when I saw it.

Star Wars, to me, is a fairy tale with a modern twist. It's set in space but it still happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. It the story of an ordinary kid who wants to become a mighty knight. In his quest, he meets new friends, old and wise mentors, a dashing "bad" guy with a heart of gold, an unconventional princess-in-distress who can take care of herself with a tiny bit of help thank-you-very-much and above all, he crosses the path of the greatest villain of all time. He gets a powerful sword and trains as a knight. He gets injured, physically and mentally. He learns devastating secrets. But at the end of the story, in Return of the Jedi, he is finally the knight he sought to become and he and his friends have save the day. And like in all good fairy tales, after that, they all live happily ever after.

So for now on Star Wars, at its core, will be episodes IV-V-VI. I'll look at everything else as glorified fanfiction: sometimes great to watch, sometimes painful (someone please erase Jar Jar from history) but I will see it as having no impact whatsoever on the core trilogy. I choose to ignore why Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader and what became of Luke, Leia and Han after RotJ.

But that's just me.

[cashpiles (closed)]

I've been reading this thread since the movie came out. I've seen the movie. I have my opinion about the movie and I don't believe my opinion matters more -or less- than any of yours. So here it is.

It's a good movie; it' enjoyable, it's funny and sad. It's well made but it's not perfect. As movie goes: it's worth its ticket price. But to me, it's not Star Wars.

I've thought a good deal about this in the last few days. As I've said often, I'm one of those who saw what you all call A New Hope when it came out in 1977. The only privilege I believe it gives me is the lifelong right of calling it "Star Wars" since that was its title when I saw it.

Star Wars, to me, is a fairy tale with a modern twist. It's set in space but it still happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. It the story of an ordinary kid who wants to become a mighty knight. In his quest, he meets new friends, old and wise mentors, a dashing "bad" guy with a heart of gold, an unconventional princess-in-distress who can take care of herself with a tiny bit of help thank-you-very-much and above all, he crosses the path of the greatest villain of all time. He gets a powerful sword and trains as a knight. He gets injured, physically and mentally. He learns devastating secrets. But at the end of the story, in Return of the Jedi, he is finally the knight he sought to become and he and his friends have save the day. And like in all good fairy tales, after that, they all live happily ever after.

So for now on Star Wars, at its core, will be episodes IV-V-VI. I'll look at everything else as glorified fanfiction: sometimes great to watch, sometimes painful (someone please erase Jar Jar from history) but I will see it as having no impact whatsoever on the core trilogy. I choose to ignore why Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader and what became of Luke, Leia and Han after RotJ.

But that's just me.

Exactly. The core is the original trilogy. An argument can be made that because Lucas wrote the prequel trilogy, it can also be considered cannon...... however... how are some random writers supposed to be able to create anything “REAL”... only Lucas can. The rest is pure bullshit... It would be like someone writing the next NIN album.... it’s just NIN in name and what the writer considers to be NIN... but it’s not real NIN

[Volband]

hey, hi. what's up? have you ever heard of this thing called not being an asshole? that's basically my goal in life, to not be an asshole. and i don't want the people i interact with to be assholes, either. toward me or toward others. it's just not necessary. so when i see behavior that i find objectionable, that makes me uncomfortable, or makes other people uncomfortable, i call it out. why? because it's really easy to not be an asshole. i would argue, in fact, that it takes way more effort to BE an asshole than to NOT be an asshole. so, like...don't be an asshole. i didn't say anything to you directly in this thread up until now, so i don't quite understand why you're calling me out, other than that me not wanting people to be assholes makes you so uncomfortable, because you're an asshole. i guess? i don't know. maybe just try being nice to people and you'll find that discussions will be more rewarding and interesting.

also, sorry you have so many objections to this movie. it's a shame, because it's a fun film with a lot of great elements that i think came together wonderfully to make something that feels both quintessentially Star Wars and completely fresh. and it's absolutely fine that you feel differently and want to talk about that. but like...do it without being a jerk, eh?

I don't think any of us are vested with the power to determine which behaviour falls into being an asshole. You and another 7 billion people on this planet has their own values. These values may or may not be different for each and every one of us. Not being an asshole is indeed a social behaviour many of us should pursue, but accepting our different values and the fact that you will never see eye to eye with everyone is equally, if not more important. You have a noble goal in life, but if you think you get to throw out often condescending judgements, then you just became a different kind of asshole while trying to call out assholes.

To use Star Wars lingo, one of the downfall of the Jedi was that they wanted to put their nose into everything. They took it upon themselves to solve every single problem in the universe and then some. A noble cause, but an act that can be deemed selfish and arrogant by many. No one wants to be lectured by someone who assumed the moral high-ground by wearing a robe and living by a code they consider superior to others' thinking. If you feel the need to interrupt every single conversation where you might find something that doesn't fit your code, then how much better are you exactly than those you interrupt and/or give a lecture to?

Take it to PMs if you are really adamant about it. No one's in this thread to read opinions about current politics or any of our views about volatile issues. It's especially low when you know exactly that it is a losing battle to call out certain people on this board, and yes, you are included. I called you out on your shenanigans*, and the first response already tried to corner me as some trans-phobe. Yuck! That's obviously out of your control, but you know how these things go.

*to be fair, the guy (OR GIRL) who desperately tried to bring politics into TLJ was a million times more obnoxious

I have no idea what makes something quintessentially Star Wars, but... sure. It had lightsabers I suppose.

And of course, Merry Christmas to everyone. Even for those, who think kamikaze-ing into someone you barely know but already in love with in a quasi murder-suicide attempt to let your other comrades die - thus being dead for sure even if you somehow survive the crash, since no one can save you now - is great writing and very Star Warsy.

[Swykk]

hey, hi. what's up? have you ever heard of this thing called not being an asshole? that's basically my goal in life, to not be an asshole. and i don't want the people i interact with to be assholes, either. toward me or toward others. it's just not necessary. so when i see behavior that i find objectionable, that makes me uncomfortable, or makes other people uncomfortable, i call it out. why? because it's really easy to not be an asshole. i would argue, in fact, that it takes way more effort to BE an asshole than to NOT be an asshole. so, like...don't be an asshole. i didn't say anything to you directly in this thread up until now, so i don't quite understand why you're calling me out, other than that me not wanting people to be assholes makes you so uncomfortable, because you're an asshole. i guess? i don't know. maybe just try being nice to people and you'll find that discussions will be more rewarding and interesting.

also, sorry you have so many objections to this movie. it's a shame, because it's a fun film with a lot of great elements that i think came together wonderfully to make something that feels both quintessentially Star Wars and completely fresh. and it's absolutely fine that you feel differently and want to talk about that. but like...do it without being a jerk, eh?

I can confirm he has not heard of this. I guess this is preferable to him stinking up the feminism and political threads?

The movie is fun and isn’t all that into repeating history. There’s already a trilogy with the original cast. This new movie is for the new characters. I’ve adequately covered the bitchfits fans are having about Luke so I’m not going to bother getting back into it.

[Dr Channard]

Possible SPOILERS.








So, Kylo seemed to be a mamma’s boy in TLJ. He cut down Han, Luke (or at least attempted), and even Snoke, but he couldn’t bring himself to fire on his momma. Why? He seems to still care about her. How do people see this boding for his character in episode 9? Was Leia supposed to be the one to redeem him in episode 9 possibly? Luke redeems his father and Leia redeems her son, or would that have been too corny a plot?

[Volband]

Possible SPOILERS.








So, Kylo seemed to be a mamma’s boy in TLJ. He cut down Han, Luke (or at least attempted), and even Snoke, but he couldn’t bring himself to fire on his momma. Why? He seems to still care about her. How do people see this boding for his character in episode 9? Was Leia supposed to be the one to redeem him in episode 9 possibly? Luke redeems his father and Leia redeems her son, or would that have been too corny a plot?

During the siege he told his men to Spoiler: murder everyone and to leave no survivors - and there is no way he did not sense her presence.

[Dr Channard]

During the siege he told his men to Spoiler: murder everyone and to leave no survivors - and there is no way he did not sense her presence.

Possible SPOILERS...



Yes, maybe so, but isn’t there a difference between letting someone else do it, and doing it himself? Earlier in the film his support fighters blew out the command bridge with the intent to kill Leia, he had plenty of time to do it himself but couldn’t bring himself to do it. And honestly, I don’t remember if the movie made it clear that Kylo knew his mother survived that attack. He seemed to be jarred out of his force connection to Leia after the bridge exploded, and it didn’t seem like the movie ever established him sensing her again after that. It seemed like his attention after that was swept up in either Rey, Snoke, or Luke. What if he simply believed her to be already dead? I don’t remember if the film indicated that either way?

EDIT:

Also - what do people think about the Snoke 2.0 theories?

I highly doubt Rian intended it, but JJ could easily retcon it and it might actually make some sense.

If you look at the dialogue before Snoke gets chopped in half closely, it reads more like he wanted that exact thing to happen. Is it possible that he also force projected himself? Or he used a clone body aka why he is all decaying all the time? And he knew Kylo needed to strike him down to reach his true potential and take control of the first order?

And now Snoke will operate from the shadows once again before revealing his true grand scheme in IX. He did take credit for mind melding Kylo and Rey, and yet it still continues to happen after his death?

SPOILERS...




The more this plays in my mind, the more it needs to happen. As much as people are complaining about Phasma being a wasted character who died too cheaply, so far we don’t get a whole lot more from Snoke than we got from her. For him to be onscreen for a few minutes and be killed makes no sense.

Snoke is apparently the guy who set everything in motion. The rebirth of the empire out of thin air. Mysteriously stealing the minds of Luke Skywalker’s students and the destruction of his academy. Causing Luke to abandon the force and go into exile. The building of a planet sized deathstar and the destruction of the republic. Mentally linking Ben and Rey. His interest in the balance between the dark and the light. His ability to tear from Rey’s mind the exact location of Luke. And all of this leading to the eventual suicide of Luke to save the resistance. If his character really did go as weakly as what appears to the eye, then his is a worse exit than Phasma. No way was Snoke duped and done in by such an elementary force trick, especially not while his focus at that exact time was on probing Ben’s mind to see what was going on in it. There almost has to be more going on with his character.

So allegedly Snoke isn’t a sith, but he looked to have similar sith powers, he seems to have picked up the mantle of Darth Sidious as emperor, he appears to want a Darth Vader-esk apprentice. If he isn’t a sith, then what is he and why is he acting as a sith? Where did he come from, how did he conjure up the first order out of nothing, why is he doing all this? Questions that would be nice to have answered moving forward.

[HurtinMinorKey]

So they turned Star Wars into the Twilight Saga. Pretty much what I expected from Disney.