The Fragile: Deviations 1 - Limited Edition 4xLP (Spring 2017)

[Papagolash]

i've considered making karaoke videos out of some of the more straightforward tracks from deviations. maybe this is the inspiration i need!

Been thinking the same thing, or somehow editing some of the lyric parts into the instrumentals to have some backing vocals where needed, like the chorus for The Wretched.

[Leviathant]

Is anyone else messing with phase cancellation between the Deviation tracks and the Definitive Fragile Tracks? Nah? It ain't perfect, but it's still neat when it all comes together. Like this, too.

[ziltoid]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but, to me it seems like, Not What It seems Like would fit perfectly somewhere on Still.
And holy hell is, Was it Worth It, just amazing! I've listened to it on repeat for an hour it's such a fantastic song.
Also I can't wait for the new abbreviated song tittles to confuse me yet again.
It's like learning a new language.

[seasonsinthesky]

Is anyone else messing with phase cancellation between the Deviation tracks and the Definitive Fragile Tracks? Nah? It ain't perfect, but it's still neat when it all comes together. Like this, too.

I assume you saw the dude on Reddit? He threw in some of the loops from nin.com back in the day to make it interesting.

TR pretty much gave up on the idea of using them to phase cancel once he agreed to have everything done in analog. Kind of a pity. (His idea didn't really work with the instrumentals on remix.nin.com, either.)

[kdrcraig]

And holy hell is, Was it Worth It, just amazing! I've listened to it on repeat for an hour it's such a fantastic song.

Completely agree, listening to it right now for the first time and I'm in love with it. Finally have time to listen to this now that Xmas stuff is over with, I'm really liking everything about this.

[Dryalex12]

I assume you saw the dude on Reddit? He threw in some of the loops from nin.com back in the day to make it interesting.

TR pretty much gave up on the idea of using them to phase cancel once he agreed to have everything done in analog. Kind of a pity. (His idea didn't really work with the instrumentals on remix.nin.com, either.)

That dude is actually me :3. hey hows it goin

[wizfan]

TR pretty much gave up on the idea of using them to phase cancel once he agreed to have everything done in analog. Kind of a pity. (His idea didn't really work with the instrumentals on remix.nin.com, either.)

What? When did TR try to do that? And which remix.nin.com instrumantals were the result of phase cancellation?

[seasonsinthesky]

What? When did TR try to do that? And which remix.nin.com instrumantals were the result of phase cancellation?

Sorry br00, I should have been clearer.

I mean, I'm sure TR probably thought the stuff sounded cool instrumental, and some of them have different/alternate endings or whatever. Just like he did for TF instrumental. The remix.nin.com instrumental playlists are basically proto-Deviations.

But I thought the intent came off pretty clearly that the point he put them on the remix site is because you could use them to phase cancel with the final release and get the vocals for remixes.

It may have been a little... poorly? executed; you need to use the same exact MP3 encoding as the MP3s they'd uploaded, with the same encoder version, and you'd have to finesse the volume/mastering changes... but you could pull off decent vocal extraction with them if you were really dedicated.

Sadly, even the "Deep" instrumental, which is almost exactly mastered like the single w/vocals, still didn't phase cancel correctly.

For the go-getters: The Fragile singles have nearly perfect phase cancellation features. For instance, you can use the WITT single to phase cancel and get both the proper end of "The Wretched" and the proper start of "The Fragile" without the transitions. Same for ITV and TWOIT's ending.

[wizfan]

It may have been a little... poorly? executed; you need to use the same exact MP3 encoding as the MP3s they'd uploaded, with the same encoder version, and you'd have to finesse the volume/mastering changes... but you could pull off decent vocal extraction with them if you were really dedicated.

Sadly, even the "Deep" instrumental, which is almost exactly mastered like the single w/vocals, still didn't phase cancel correctly.

Yup, TDS (and YZ, methinks) instrumentals were unmastered. I want the entire unmastered vocal NIN discography. GIVE US THE 2018 UNDEFINITIVE EDITIONS TRANT*

Sorry br00

S'00KAY, BR00. BR00S 5 LIFE. BR00S BE4 P00R AUDI00S.

*joke curteously stolen from @sheepdean

[jmtd]

But I thought the intent came off pretty clearly that the point he put them on the remix site is because you could use them to phase cancel with the final release and get the vocals for remixes

I really don't think so. If that was really his intention surely he'd have tried it and worked out it wasn't going to fly first. I think he just put them up to give remixers something cool to play with. Perhaps he had them already, maybe he was in the habit of doing instrumental mix downs of his stuff for private reasons. He seems to have a difficult relationship with his voice and lyrics over time.

[seasonsinthesky]

Oh, can someone who's above my level of idiocy tell me exactly what's going on with the piano and drums on Deviations' "La Mer"? Is that whole thing actually a live take? Why is there so much punch to it?

At the moment, I find it so interesting and sexy and mysterious, but it's not really "La Mer," so I kinda feel like I'm cheating on my wife.

It's either a different recording/take of Bill Rieflin's drum track or a vastly, vastly different mix of it. You'd be surprised how much you can change a drum sound if you have multiple microphone options and room mics (which are turned WAY up on that mix). It also could be programmed drums from TR's Big Sur demo. I dunno.

The upright bass is also insanely louder.

[botley]

Oh, can someone who's above my level of idiocy tell me exactly what's going on with the piano and drums on Deviations' "La Mer"? Is that whole thing actually a live take? Why is there so much punch to it?

At the moment, I find it so interesting and sexy and mysterious, but it's not really "La Mer," so I kinda feel like I'm cheating on my wife.

I think this is an earlier version — possibly that could be the rumoured Tony Thompson drum bed that was replaced in the final mix.

[botley]

Definitely a different piano track, yeah.

[chuenthez]

Kinda strange Trent let that live Kiss sample at the end of Starfuckers go on for so long, especially with the crowd chanting "We want kiss!" The original version of Starfuckers on the TDTWWA single didn't go on for as long. Plus the sample itself is a vocal (voice) on an instrumental album.

It is an old quote, but this extended sample seems to be the one we can hear on the TDTWWA cassette version (the nin.wiki mentions "nine inch nails" but I guess they say "we want kiss": .

But, where did the "Wow" go ? And where was it coming from (definitely not Kiss - Shout It Out Loud - Alive II version) ?
There are still things to investigate...

[seasonsinthesky]

But, where did the "Wow" go ? And where was it coming from (definitely not Kiss - Shout It Out Loud - Alive II version) ?
There are still things to investigate...

It's pretty clearly TR's falsetto, imo. And since they muted his vocals in the PT session, it's gone from the Deviations 1 mixdown.

[botley]

Yep, you can also hear the 'woo' isolated in Sherwood's remix from Things Falling Apart. So it's not Paul Stanley, just a very convincing TR impersonation!

Cassette mix definitely has the 'nine inch nails' chant superimposed over the KISS crowd chant, however.

[stiles]

Absolutely awesome. I can only hope there will be a Deviations 2 with even more content. The Fragile was my favorite NIN era by a large margin. I'm on my 3rd listen at this point. I am absolutely in love with the raw feel of Somewhat Damaged, and 10 Miles High. The differences in The Big Come down are awesome also. To be fair, there's a ton of little things I can sense but can't put my finger on just yet. It's pretty amazing that it's been 17 years and it still feels this fresh; it hasn't aged one bit.

[Alex of scotland]

I've probably posted this elsewhere before, but this Alan Moulder (with some Trent) interview is VERY relevant right now. It's about coming in to work on the fragile and the state that things were in when he arrived. Lots of random bits but only one real song. Start at 9m50s.

https://app.box.com/s/r9wfc815iqvicgmosrwvkcaeyyk1hesw

I wonder that first completed song was? I always thought it was La Mer, but this suggests it may not have been.

[pigpen]

Just made it through all 37 tracks from front to back, and fuck yeah. After listening to TF a billion times, it's actually really enthralling to be able to pick apart what's happening in the background..
I won't go as far as saying it's a TOTALLY NEW EXPERIENCE because, it's still very familiar to me.. but it's a new perspective on an album I've loved for a long time.

I'm excited to get the vinyl in the spring.

[Miss.Selfdestruct]

On my first listen of Fragile Deviations 1. It has to be my mentality here, because I've listened to TF instrumental version that came out last year a number of times. But the addition of the new/unreleased tracks make it feel like a more complete sonic experience. ... I KNEW there was more to the intro in WITT!!!

It's been many years since TF came out and I was in a completely different stage in life then. It's awesome realizing that it still holds up these days. Very happy I jumped on the vinyl for this release.

[EndlessLoveless]

Yeah I've been on a nails binge for well over a week at this point. This deviations in its entirety is unreal. With the apple stuff I really only listened to the new tracks so a lot of this is new to me. With deviations it's the whole album at once (as much as possible with young kids). It's really a completely different experience. Not having vocals really opens up the landscape and I'm hearing a lot of new shit. With the new tracks mixed in, it's a whole new different experience that is alien yet familiar. It sounds unreal and is not getting old after multiple listens. Can't wait for the physical copy. What an end to the year. And i love seeing the ets community reaction. Good times everyone, thanks.

[blassster]

Some of the symbols here will be a little familiar for those who have been exploring the deviations pdf. Second image maybe not so much, but it was paired with the first in my directory, they show additional concept art for the album.

[joplinpicasso]

Thanks, @seasonsinthesky and @botley. The piano is different too, right? It's not just me or the other elements making it sound different, like wearing a sweater that turns blue eyes green?

I noticed exactly what you're talking about. It may also be the same piano track with less reverb (or watery quality) than the 'final' version. Something I find interesting with this release is that it's uncertain to me whether these were initial decisions that were scrapped by TR & Co. and then revisited, or if TR + AR felt that these 'changes' brought out the best elements from the music now. I mean, that new slick beat in Ripe (With Decay)? The additional crowd samples around the 3 minute mark?

[David Woods]

I hope deviations 2 is with teeth stuff bleed through material would be awesome to listen too maybe we will even get tapeworm stuff so many things we could get

[mostlymad]

Fantastic sonic journey. I'm glad I gave in to my personal hungry ghost. This is a very good accompaniment to a favorite album. It's like a soundtrack for things in my own life, too. So glad to be in a better place where I can purchase it. Were it still the era when this was released, I never would have. More than nostalgia, the music really does light up parts of my brain that bring on the good chemicals. Definitely happy with my decision to purchase it. Can't wait to spin it, for real, too.

[seasonsinthesky]

But I don't believe we have any hint that "Just Like You Imagined" ever was a vocal track.

Psssst, there are vocals! Right when the drums and bass come in. They're more apparent on AATCHB.

[Reaps]

I suspect there is more Fragile to come. Makes no sense to me calling it Deviations 1 without giving the same album a 2nd Deviations release. Though i can't even imagine whats left from that era, save for remasters of the still tracks, the first 2 TFA tracks & vocal demo's etc..

More than happy with what i've got.

[Destruct26]

This entire era of nine inch nails is fucking awesome. And there's still shit popping up. I'm not sure if anyone knew this, but if y'all are familiar with the menu music from AATCHB DVD, but one of those tracks (Alien Towers) bleeds into the intro of The New Flesh (thingsfallingapart.com version), in a similar style of The Great Below & Untitled (fromthingsfallingapart.com)
On a related note, I've never heard the cassette version of Starfuckers, Inc, in regards to the outro where they shout 'Nine Inch Nails' instead of 'we want kiss' (might have to find one on eBay ) But I wonder, were those samples the same as the ones on the AATCHB DVD menu, more specifically, the one entitled 'Crowd'/'Crowd (This is how it all begins)' where the crowd is screaming Nine Inch Nails? They are both from the same era, so maybe, maybe not. Perhaps someone could verify the cassette version...

[Destruct26]

The aesthetic is totally the same, of course. Same synth/guitar, same distortion, and the first note does indeed sound the same, though the rhythmic chopping in WITT/MP makes it harder to hear the tonal center. My issue with saying "it's the same!!!" is that the rhythm after the first note is COMPLETELY different. Are they all the same notes? Maybe. I hear an extra one in LHF that isn't used in WITT. But the fact that the rhythm is completely different makes it non-identical and therefore not the same riff. WITT was the song that got me into NIN in 2002, and I've been obsessed ever since – the bloody riff loop is buried in my bone marrow somewhere. It isn't the same one in LFH. (Not saying this isn't the case for you, since I don't know; just that, if it is the same for you, I don't understand how you hear them as the same.)

It's totally possible the riff in LHF was chopped to fuck, looped, and used to make MP/WITT. That's super possible. But as it is now, LFH isn't the same thing. Write them out in musical notation and they will not be alike.



Not sure if you meant to address the discussion with myself, Pbgut and TinDefacto, but we were talking about the riff in WITT being used in "Last Heard From" (or not). We're all in agreement that "Missing Places" uses the same one because it's quite bloody obvious with the segue directly into WITT.

Though the riff as used in MP is chopped into a different time signature, so technically it isn't the same. Rabbit hole!

Agreed. I overlooked the time signature aspect. Mah bad lol. On a side note, Last Heard From scares the shit out of me. Literally, into my socks.

[eversonpoe]

More thoughts, as they keep dribbling out one or two at a time.

For me, the biggest disappointment ias that "The March" did not become a vocal Nine Inch Nails song on The Fragile. Heartbreaking. I think that, musically, it fits better than most of the other apocrypha, and I'm sure it could've been a gorgeous piece. I love "Skin of a Drum," but goddamn, I think that could have been a classic as a Nine Inch Nails song.

the chorus of "the march" sounds like it could have been on Disintegration or Wish by The Cure and really really makes me wish (wink wink) that trent and robert smith would collaborate on something.