The Fragile: Deviations 1 - Limited Edition 4xLP (Spring 2017)

[Destruct26]

My opinion, now that I finally found a spare 150 minutes to listen to the album in full:

So, TF is my all time favourite album, and I've been dreaming of hearing the unreleased material from it for 17 years now. So getting my hands on this was the best Christmas gift imaginable.

Of the new tracks, only one didn't immediately grab me. The rest were awesome, and I'm so glad I finally got to hear them. (I'm sort of disappointed that "White Mask" was already released as a Saul William's track. As much as I loved it on Niggy Tardust, I would have preferred to hear it as a NIN track. It'll take a while and more listens before I mentally shift gears and start thinking of it as of a piece with the rest of TF).

But, I actually think that this presentation wasn't the optimal one. I understand why most of these tracks weren't included on the original release - not because they're lesser, but because a lot of them don't share the same aesthetic as the rest of the album. A lot of them really broke the flow of the album for me. I think what would have worked much better would have been to create a whole new disc - a "Center" disc for something. And to include the vocals. I would have preferred a "Definitive" version of TF, rather than this Deviation.

Still, though, listening to this for the first time were 150 of the best minutes of my life.

(Oh, and maybe because I'd only ever heard a crappy rip from the cassette, but "Appendage" sounded monstrously awesome on this album, where I'd previously thought of it as an interesting but unnecessary addendum.)

Um- you mean 'The March' reused by Saul to make 'Skin of a Drum'- right? Unless I missed something and 'White Mask' was found in a different track off Niggy Tardust?

[jmtd]

TF is great and TFD1 is as well. Just because he made some changes such removing lyrics, adding some things/ etc should not mean it is a new halo #. New halo # usually indicate new material not rehashed old material.

It's his scheme so his rules, I suppose. Personally I like having a halo number uniquely identify a release; I don't like the duplicates nor "v2" suffixes etc., but it's not my scheme either.

[Ryan]

It's his scheme so his rules, I suppose. Personally I like having a halo number uniquely identify a release; I don't like the duplicates nor "v2" suffixes etc., but it's not my scheme either.

No, it isn't, so shut the fuck up

[slopesandsam]

Um- you mean 'The March' reused by Saul to make 'Skin of a Drum'- right? Unless I missed something and 'White Mask' was found in a different track off Niggy Tardust?

Yes. Sorry.

[r_z]

Um- you mean 'The March' reused by Saul to make 'Skin of a Drum'- right? Unless I missed something and 'White Mask' was found in a different track off Niggy Tardust?

White Mask (the percussion) got re-used in Speaking In Tongues by HTDA, no?

[botley]

White Mask (the percussion) got re-used in Speaking In Tongues by HTDA, no?

I don't think so; similar pattern but very different sounds. The "White Mask" drum track is sampled from a live kit (similar to the junky-sounding live kit used on "I'm Looking Forward to Joining You, Finally" and "The Fragile") but the HTDA track is a combination of synthesized hits and close-miked percussion.

[Destruct26]

If it hasn't been mentioned already, I noticed that One Way To Get There and Claustraphobia Machine have virtually the same bpms; 80.5 + 80.6. After raising the bpm of OWTGT a mere .100, I managed to line them up perfectly, starting CM first, and OWTGT's opening guitar riff right after CM's second drum crash. Not only does it sound fucking amazing IMO, but they both sound as if they were once part of the same track. They are also close to the same time length, give or take 10 seconds.

[jmtd]

No, it isn't, so shut the fuck up

Love you too Bruv happy new year xoxo

[Warped_Savant]

A song doesn't have to contain lyrics to be a song. The music is not new. It should be halo 14D1

I don't follow.... If you mean "not new" to indicate that it was put together using recordings from 17 years ago then yeah, they're not new.... but nearly half the songs on Deviations 1 hadn't been released on any Halo before/are alternate versions than what appear on The Fragile and the rest are instrumental versions of songs off of The Fragile and therefore different.
Saying that it should be Halo 14D1 is kind of like saying that Fixed should be Halo 05R (for remix)...

[Seed_0]

I don't follow.... If you mean "not new" to indicate that it was put together using recordings from 17 years ago then yeah, they're not new.... but nearly half the songs on Deviations 1 hadn't been released on any Halo before/are alternate versions than what appear on The Fragile and the rest are instrumental versions of songs off of The Fragile and therefore different.
Saying that it should be Halo 14D1 is kind of like saying that Fixed should be Halo 05R (for remix)...

Yes they are recordings form 17 years ago. I understand that it contains unreleased tracts and alt. versions but, it is not at all new in the sense of his current style. For it to be next to HM and NTAE seems completely out of place.

[Jon]

We've had over 25 years of precedent where alternate mixes/remixes/b-sides/etc. received their own Halo/Seed numbering. Is this really an issue?

[Seed_0]

We've had over 25 years of precedent where alternate mixes/remixes/b-sides/etc. received their own Halo/Seed numbering. Is this really an issue?

Those halos were released in relevant time frames. Seeds are for promotional releases. Plus, the're other variations such as halo V2, ect. The halo numbers have been somewhat of a progressive system, and now after 29 of them they are just going to be all over the place.

[Your Name Here]

I am just happy he released it, The Fragile is my favorite NIN albums and to have alternative versions and unreleased material and another take on one of my favorite albums of all time is something to be thankful for.

[neorev]

It doesn't matter what year or era it is from, The Fragile: Deviations is its own separate release from The Fragile hence having its own Halo number. It doesn't matter it features music from an earlier era, it is its own, separate release. I don't understand this Halo argument. It's a new release, it gets a new Halo number. Just like Fixed, Further Down The Spiral, Things Falling Apart, and Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D have their own Halos.

[joplinpicasso]

I thought I was a deep-cut NIN fan. This debate about what warrants worth as a Halo is fascinating.

Who's to say the electro elements at the end of "SD" or the new riffs at the end of "TBCD" are old -- they could have been modern additions (meaning TR pulled a George Lucas) or reworkings. I consider this newly released* material and newly remixed material. It's a shame that "Non-Entity" and "NSPN" don't live on their own halo, while I'm at it.

EDIT: I stand corrected!

[ryanmcfly]

TR decides what's a halo and what isn't. That should be all that matters.

[seasonsinthesky]

Who's to say the electro elements at the end of "SD" or the new riffs at the end of "TBCD" are old -- they could have been modern additions (meaning TR pulled a George Lucas) or reworkings.

The liner notes: "All music is from the original Fragile sessions in New Orleans, 1997-1999."

Also, the album diary entries from nin.com in 1999 indicate SD's ending had a major overhaul once it was decided it would open the record. There is precedence for these things, y'know.

The original stuff in TBCD wasn't known about, though. It's also at a faster tempo.

[EndlessLoveless]

I don't have an issue with the numbering. If he released a greatest hits album, not like the 3 put online, but a true release it would have a new halo. I understand the progression argument but really, who gives a fuck. It's a new release. It's a separate working of the album unlike TDS ultimate edition which is the regular album remastered with a separate disc of relevant songs. This is totally different imo.

And with somewhat damaged, even if we didn't know for sure that those synths at the end were the original version which we do, come on....those are so late 90s sounding. Like a preset arp on any synth you could by from the 90s. No way in hell is that new. I like the extended outro but am glad he removed those in the final edit.

[Al_Hunter]

Those halos were released in relevant time frames. Seeds are for promotional releases. Plus, the're other variations such as halo V2, ect. The halo numbers have been somewhat of a progressive system, and now after 29 of them they are just going to be all over the place.

Bit of an overreaction. It's one release. They're not "all over the place". If Trent never releases anything else there's one Halo that you consider to be incorrect.

Ultimately I'm more interested in the contents of the Halo not what the number is on the spine of the record.

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[Seed_0]

Bit of an overreaction. It's one release. They're not "all over the place". If Trent never releases anything else there's one Halo that you consider to be incorrect.

Ultimately I'm more interested in the contents of the Halo not what the number is on the spine of the record.

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It seems some people are getting confused on going halo discussion. I sure hope you are interested in the content, because why else would you be here?

[Al_Hunter]

It seems some people are getting confused on going halo discussion. I sure hope you are interested in the content, because why else would you be here?

My point is that the Halo number holds little to no relevance besides a cataloging system imo

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[Seed_0]

My point is that the Halo number holds little to no relevance besides a cataloging system imo

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Hey sounds like my point.

[Al_Hunter]

Hey sounds like my point.

Just worded in a way which doesn't describe anarchy as a result of an errant catalog number

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[Seed_0]

Just worded in a way which doesn't describe anarchy as a result of an errant catalog number

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I will use my voice to destroy everything I can.

[Al_Hunter]

I will use my voice to destroy everything I can.

It's the internet mate. If you don't someone else will.

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[Dryalex12]

dude who the fuck cares if its halo 30 or not.

Im hear to listen to it, not argue about how im gonna order it on my shelve

[neorev]

HALO -14 (The negative equals Halo 14 minus vocals)

[Substance242]

Kids at Xbox forum will downvote me to hell when I'll say I have Halo 30 already.

Btw, just listened for the first time completely (headphones, pillow over face because of burning lights outside), The March is great (that calmer New Order/The Cure part), but the very best brutal wonderful one is Was it worth it? I am not asking, that's its name. :-) Love that one! I can imagine Trent asking Mariqueen "hey, listen to this, what do you think?" and she'd start dancing and Trent is like "OK, I'd better release this shit somehow"... OK, enough. :-)

[Shadaloo]

Remember the Year Zero ARG when a bunch of us got decimal point halo numbers up on a site for participating?

After that, debating what is and isn't a halo seems kinda silly tbh. You'll never complete your collection unless you're a Yautja.

[elevenism]

So the first time i listened to this, i just listened to the outtakes and was a little underwhelmed.
I also didn't listen to the apple instrumental release.
But then i was reading a book and needed some music without words and gave it a shot.
Now i see what trent is saying. It is fucking awesome. It becomes an entirely different animal without vocals.
And it's really cool to hear the little changes.

Now i've listened to it like 5 times and it is one of my favorite releases of the year.

Edit: i will admit that i didn't care about a "karaoke version of the fragile," but that is NOT what this is.
If you were like me, i highly suggest you give this thing a spin.