11/08/2022, The Midterms, aka build on 2020 aka The Election Thread

[ltrandazzo]

New Pollercoaster from Crooked & Change Research - https://crooked.com/articles/pollerc...-up-whos-down/

1261 Democratic voters who said they're participating in the primaries of Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina shared their thoughts after the first round of Dem debates.

Sanders & Warren at 19%, Biden at 18%, Harris at 17%, Buttigieg at 15% and the rest under 3%.

Click through to read the rest of the results. Of note is that Dem voters in these states want a climate debate and that they favor progressive issues around healthcare, the Iran deal and decriminalizing border crossings.

[Sarah K]

Harris goes on The View and says "Right now we have Medicare for All, and it's called an emergency room."

Oof.

[Wretchedest]

Harris goes on The View and says "Right now we have Medicare for All, and it's called an emergency room."

Oof.

Wtf does that mean?

[allegro]

Wtf does that mean?

Seriously?

It means that when you don’t pay your emergency room bill because you don’t have any money and you’re uninsured, most of the time Medicaid ends up picking up the tab.

[Demogorgon]

Seriously?

It means that when you don’t pay your emergency room bill because you don’t have any money and you’re uninsured, most of the time Medicaid ends up picking up the tab.

The hospital still sends you a bill, regardless, and if you don't have money, your credit gets fucked, and there's nothing you can do about it. Not contradicting you, just an addendum.

[allegro]

The hospital still sends you a bill, regardless, and if you don't have money, your credit gets fucked, and there's nothing you can do about it. Not contradicting you, just an addendum.

True. But in states with Medicaid expansion, not always true.

See also:

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...-bills-2018-12

(You can declare bankruptcy, happens all the time and your credit bounces back faster than people realize.)

Harris’ comment was intended to be snarky and alarming.

My Mom is on Medicare and has supplemental Plan F, which is the most expensive and most comprehensive of all supplemental coverage (no longer available after 2020). But that still means she has zero dental care, zero optical care, she pays a $410 annual deductible for her Part D Rx Plan, which is the VALUE plan, which means she can only use two local pharmacies, and her monthly Medicare premiums are $280 and her monthly supplemental premiums are over $300. Her prescriptions are routinely rejected or are deemed too expensive.

What people don’t tell you about getting old is that those fillings start failing, etc. and dental work starts becoming THE thing you need and it’s one big thing Medicare won’t cover. Implants are considered “cosmetic” by the insurance industry. My Mom had an old bridge that failed, destroyed the underlying teeth; several opinions later, she’s had five different implants, a bridge abutment, in the last six years she’s had about $20,000 in dental work done. A big chunk on low-interest Care Credit, the rest on credit cards, because if / when she dies, we’ll stiff the creditors, fuck ‘em. She’s paying minimum payments, and now the interest rates have climbed to over 21%. We’ve considered her filing bankruptcy, at 81. Due to dental bills.

Her monthly payments are so high, it’s hard to afford $400 for new progressive lens glasses, which also isn’t covered by Medicare or supplemental.

Medical care is far too expensive in this country. Insurance or payment coverage won’t come down until the costs come down.

If Medicare for All is the solution, that must include all dental and all optical, and it must demand the reduction of costs.

But it must be careful that hospitals and medical providers aren’t suddenly REJECTING Medicare.

And all these PRESIDENTIAL candidates promoting and promising healthcare plans when only CONGRESS can deliver LEGISLATION and the Senate is controlled by Cocaine-Mitch McConnell is another load of crap.

[ltrandazzo]

Harris goes on The View and says "Right now we have Medicare for All, and it's called an emergency room."

Oof.

Are we grading on style points? It's obvious a consultant gave her that line but it don't think it's that bad compared to some of the others she's used at rallies. The message gets across but I'd prefer she says it a different way.

I'd like to see more details on her "how" we get to Medicare for All.

[versusreality]

Andrew Yang on MSNBC yesterday: "Your favorite band? " Yang: "The Cure " hah, cool!

[Jinsai]

Andrew Yang on MSNBC yesterday: "Your favorite band? " Yang: "The Cure " hah, cool!

a friend of mine went to high school with that Richard Spencer guy, who turned out to be a huge Trump supporting nazi.

Apparently, he was an outcast who kept to himself, didn't talk much, and loved The Cure. Just saying...

[sweeterthan]

a friend of mine went to high school with that Richard Spencer guy, who turned out to be a huge Trump supporting nazi.

Apparently, he was an outcast who kept to himself, didn't talk much, and loved The Cure. Just saying...

what about paul ryan loving rage against the machine? i mean, it was like WHOOSH! over his head. Music taste doesn't make one a good (or bad) person.

[versusreality]

what about paul ryan loving rage against the machine? i mean, it was like WHOOSH! over his head. Music taste doesn't make one a good (or bad) person.

exactly. just thought it was cool that a presidential candidate name dropped the Cure as his favorite band. it's irrelevant to whether I'd vote for the individual or not of course.

[elevenism]

a friend of mine went to high school with that Richard Spencer guy, who turned out to be a huge Trump supporting nazi.

Apparently, he was an outcast who kept to himself, didn't talk much, and loved The Cure. Just saying...

and he declared Depeche Mode to be the official band of the alt right or some shit ��

[Jinsai]

and he declared Depeche Mode to be the official band of the alt right or some shit ��

yep, and then after Gahan called him a cunt, he laughed and said he’s a life long fan, and that DM has already written all the anthems the alt right will ever need...

ok Annie Wilkes, you sad troll, your fifteen minutes of shame are up

[chuckrh]

i think the donald is outright drooling at the thought of running against biden. it's hilary mark 2. biden is beholden to the big banks & wall street, so the MI complex wins either way in this race. frightening.

[Wretchedest]

I was being sincere with that question.

I seen Harris criticized a few times for delivering crafted or fed lines, but that just seems like part of the job. Come up with a platform and usually you have someone help you articulate it to a broader audience. In this case it wasn't a clear enough soundbite to me. Seems pretty standard.

[versusreality]

I think a Democrat Senate will be necessary more than ever. If a Democrat wins in 2020, I fear the Republican senate will do things out of spite then more than ever.

[theimage13]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/be...-on-2019-07-19

So....looks like a lot of Sanders' staff are making less than the $15/hr he claims every deserves. I guess the whole "lead by example" thing doesn't mean much.

Wonder how the other candidates treat their people. I'm not at all suggesting for a second that Sanders is the only one who isn't compensating his people well. This is just the first time I've seen the numbers on someone.

[theimage13]

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co...s_hacked_into/

This thread is a great - and terrifying - catch-all regarding 2016 election interference. This should be required reading for every voter - and especially for politicians.

[Jinsai]

on that note @theimage13 here's another good recapping source for referencing dates and events and generally running through bullet points of insanity
https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com

[Wretchedest]

So some numbers coming in on Harris plan it's one of the few cases where we can make specific, dry comparisons on healthcare plans:

Harris: 4% starting at 100,000k a year
Sanders 4% starting at 29,000k a year


I think this is quite surpising considering the narrative as Sanders as the more progressive candidate. While it's true that Harris plan has a "role for private insurers" that plan has a real world view of who can actually afford that tax. The Sanders taxbis actually pretty regressivee, even if it was still less than the current stack of healthcare. The 100ish dollars a month at least would be too much for a lot of people between of say 29-70k.

Of course the Sanders campt has their usual gatekeeping and spin on this but it's a surprisingly disappointing number from sanders

[allegro]

While it's true that Harris plan has a "role for private insurers" that plan has a real world view of who can actually afford that tax.

Her plan is similar to what Medicare is now, plus some differences more similar to the German system, with some modification as to how we pay (premiums vs. taxes).

In our country, Medicare is currently multi-payer and we pay monthly premiums for Medicare from our incomes (Social Security), it's deducted from our monthly income, and we supplement Medicare with private insurance. Harris wants to tax for it, but of course no PRESIDENT can legislate. Anything that passes will come through Congress (just like the ACA). Tax vs. premiums, vs. how employers pay for it, etc. The Executive branch has zero authority to do any of this.

In 2007, Presidential CANDIDATE Obama promised "Universal healthcare" which he meant as health insurance for all (vs. actual health CARE for all).

https://www.insurancejournal.com/new...5/16/79746.htm

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...l-u-s-n1024491

I love Elizabeth Warren.

But here's the labor union worker's problem with a "Medicare for All" no-private insurance taxed plan:

Labor unions largely have negotiated contracts wherein their employers pay for at least half of employee's health insurance coverage via monthly premiums. After retirement, this coverage continues via supplemental coverage after the retiree receives Medicare payment.

Labor union members are now afraid of what all of this will do to union contract negotiations when Medicare turns into a "taxed" method and Medicare vs. the contract that covered private insurance. NONE of these contracts covered taxes. All of these contracts would have to be re-negotiated to cover co-payment of an employees' "healthcare taxes." And it's all up for grabs as to whether or not all or any healthcare providers would even be required to ACCEPT Medicare. In the past, many healthcare providers REJECTED Medicare.

The Medicare "Public" option allows the insurance industry to continue (vs. putting all insurance employees into unemployment) and gives the public an option to pay premiums to Medicare with supplemental private insurance for what Medicare doesn't cover, etc.

ALL of the plans offered by these Democratic candidates are just Unicorn plans that are subject to legislation approved and written by Congress and pretty much ALL of Congress is beholden to the medical industry and the insurance industry and Big Pharma.

And the labor unions and their members must approve these plans based on the contracts that are already out there.

[Swykk]

Warren and Sanders did well as expected. Buttigieg did okay too. Warren actually murdered some fake Democrat on stage. Who was that guy?

[dvdglss]

fun to see her literally rub her hands together decapitating the guy from AIRPLANE!

[allegro]

Right now, the black voter polls are highly motivated toward Biden.

WAY more than Harris.

They pretty much hate Sanders, now.

Several polls are showing ANY Democratic candidate beating Trump.

I’m betting Biden is going to be the Democratic candidate, with Stacey Abrams as his V.P.

I’d vote for a dead cactus over Trump.

[Archive_Reports]

I’d vote for a dead cactus over Trump.

You could beat me and my mother with that dead cactus and I'd still vote for it.

[allegro]

I really like Castro. He’s my winner for night two.

All this “healthcare” talk only talks about the cost of health INSURANCE and not why for-profit healthcare is still LEGAL (it used to be illegal until Nixon) and why it’s SO FUCKING EXPENSIVE HERE.

I don’t like Gabbard but she FLAMED Harris. Holy shit.

[Sarah K]

Jesus christ Biden sends me into a rage now.

Now I feel like an asshole for sharing all of the old Obama/Biden memes. What an absolute piece of shit.

(I'm like an hour behind and at the criminal justice bit)

[allegro]

Jesus christ Biden sends me into a rage now.

Now I feel like an asshole for sharing all of the old Obama/Biden memes. What an absolute piece of shit.

(I'm like an hour behind and at the criminal justice bit)

I know, this debate tonight is making him look BAD.

Yeah, they’re bringing up old text but that’s baggage that’s his and he has to apologize and say he’s changed in 30-40 years.

People change, for sure, but he’s not good at handling this shit in a debate.

Trump would eat him alive. He’s stuttering and can’t adequately argue his past.

[elevenism]

Trump would eat him alive. He’s stuttering and can’t adequately argue his past.

You're probably right about that-about Trump eating Biden alive in a debate.

But, still, i think that Biden is the most electable (read:semi-moderate, old white guy) candidate.
Warren MIGHT beat trump in the general, but i'm not so sure about that. While i think Warren would DESTROY Trump in a debate, i still think Biden is the safer choice as the Democratic candidate.
And, i hate to say that, because i'm a borderline radical leftist when it comes to MANY issues. There are a LOT of candidates i prefer over Biden, but, this time, electability is my main concern.
I think we need a centrist to win. Again, it pains me to say this.
Although i think we'll see more younger voters during this election cycle, i still think that the older folks will be casting the majority of the ballots, per usual: boomers, and, now, older gen x'ers. All of these people were adults during parts of the cold war, and any sort of "socialist" policies frighten them. And "medicare for all" may be enough to scare some of them, not into voting for trump, but, just staying home.
I still think that Biden will be the nominee. If he IS, we might be fucked, if he's as dull as you guys think he is. If he ISN'T, we may be fucked, for the aforementioned reasons.
The good news is, we've become SO tribalistic, that the majority of folks who are gonna vote, already know for whom they will vote- Trump, or, Not Trump.
As i said before, i'd vote for a Cartoon Goose over trump.
Perhaps we can have a Cartoon Goose as the nominee, with a dead cactus running for VP.
Cartoon Goose
Dead Cactus
2020
God, we DESPERATELY needed a Obama or JFK type.
Perhaps if Warren wins the nomination, she will soften some of her positions, ever so slightly, to attract the center left.
Or, maybe, MAYBE, Biden just had a couple of off nights.
I know one fucking thing: i don't think that this country will survive another 4 years of trump's fear mongering, narcissism, racism and sheer fucking idiocy. He ABSOLUTELY brings out the worst in us, as a country, and, another term would lead to the end of the US as we know it, imho.

[versusreality]

Biden appears old and out of place, stumbling a lot.I'm not sure if he's going to gain support after tonight. He may or may not lose some. Gabbard (also not the biggest fan of hers) roasted Harris and it was awesome.