Worlds of DC Thread

[neorev]

Yes, correct. But it sounds like your real problem here is the size of your tv? Do you complain when a film is in cinema widescreen as opposed to widescreen? Because in terms of pixels used, that and 4x3 are quite similar. They both cut off a whole lot of real estate on a 16:9 TV screen, but for some reason people only complain when its 4x3. The image itself IS taller. Not your tv. To fill your tv, the image would have to have the top and bottom cut off. If you really want a bastardization of the original image, you can just zoom in, it will look like shit though. I'd rather have the full frame. It still takes up a good chunk of the screen.

In your first post you mentioned you thought Snyder was dumb to release in this format because it's intended for home release. That's actually not true. When he filmed it he very much intended to release it in IMAX theaters. Back in 2017 who could have foreseen the shit we're in now. Then his daughter died and he never finished the film. If he were starting from scratch he may have gone a different route. Hbo came to him and asked if he'd finish it and he told them he would only if he could do it his way. It was shot in 4x3 so thats what it's going to be. Also I'm sure one day it will get a theatrical run. Imax uses a taller image for a reason.

I don't blame him. Every Snyder director's cut is better than the studio version they force him to do. It's happened before and I expect this version of the movie will be a whole lot better than that Marvel wannabe shitshow that the 2017 version was. 4x3 or not.

Well, HBO Max presents the theatrical cut without black bars. Unless they bastardized it for streaming. But either way, the image must be shrunk somewhat to fit height wise even if you include the space the black bars take up.

Batman V Superman Ultimate has black bars on HBO Max.

I still don't think Snyder or DC earned the scope of Justice League. They went all Endgame with no build up. I don't even understand where they would've went after this if Snyder did get his way. They just went too big too fast. They went from, "Oh hey, look, Batman and Superman are fighting" to massive world ending war in an instant. The stakes don't feel big because they barely built up these big villains.

[burnmotherfucker!]

When I watch the theatrical cut of Justice League on HBO Max, there are no black bars.



For example, this image makes no sense. I found it on a site trying to compare ratios. Let's say those yellow lines are like how Justice League theatrical cut is currently on HBO Max, with no black bars. Let's just say those yellow bars are the shape of your TV since that's how it looks on HBO Max with no top or bottom black bars. Those blue bars would make you believe your TV suddenly grew beyond the boundaries of the yellow bars. In reality, those blue bars on top and bottom would have to be squeezed down to fit the height of the yellow bars aka the height of your TV, hence the image is shrinking. Now you have a smaller image with black bars on the side. Sure, it may help distinguish short versus taller better, but it's also making certain things smaller. It may look great on a giant IMAX screen, but not your normal 40-60 inch TV at home.

That image isn't supposed to be representative of your TV. The original image is 4x3, so those yellow lines are only there to show you how much of the original image is cut off.

Aspect ratio is basically just the ration of a film's borders. Your TV's borders are fixed. If you have a 16:9 TV, ANY image that is not exactly 16:9 will be smaller than your screen. If you have a 2:1 TV, a 16:9 image will waste screen real estate. Today TVs just so happen to be 16:9 but that doesn't mean everything should be filmed in that arbitrary ratio. There are many logistical and artistic reasons to use other ratios. 20 years from now who knows we might all have 4x3 TVs again like we had for decades before 16:9 became the norm. Maybe home projectors are the way forward if people are really that bothered by an image not being 16:9. For me it's no issue, I don't see the sides of my TV in the dark. And my TV isn't gigantic or anything. Unless you have a 20" screen or something, it's really not a big deal.

[neorev]

If I had an 80"+ TV, it probably wouldn't be as bad. It feels a little claustrophobic on my 55". That worked with a movie like The Lighthouse, where it feels like the walls are closing in. A massive superhero battle movie, not so much.

[fillow]

When I watch the theatrical cut of Justice League on HBO Max, there are no black bars.

Most TVs have adjustable zoom/ratio settings. Can't you just choose the setting to fit the image by width? You'll get your full screen picture with no black bars on either side

[burnmotherfucker!]

If I had an 80"+ TV, it probably wouldn't be as bad. It feels a little claustrophobic on my 55". That worked with a movie like The Lighthouse, where it feels like the walls are closing in. A massive superhero battle movie, not so much.

Hahahaha. Want to trade? My tv is 42"

I get it, I really do. Who doesn't want to be able to use every inch of their screen. But I'm also a huge film geek and so I'm pretty used to films of all sizes. I don't mind exchanging that TV real estate for the artists original vision the way they saw it. And to your earlier question about the original JL and BvS's ratios. Yes they were cropped for both home release and theatrical releases. You lose image in them and almost every other movie you see unless it is shot in digital with that ratio in mind. A Marvel movie that was shot for IMAX and the blu ray fits your screen perfectly? Cropped.

It's annoying and it had been going on for years. VHS back in the day were all cropped. The basic consumer doesn't bother looking into these things, understandably so. They just want the screen filled no matter how much image is lost. Film geeks hate this. It is considered best to view a film as intended when it was made and edited. Just the other day I was about to pick up a cheap blu ray of The Shining but I didn't because they had fucked with the original aspect ratio. I don't care if it means a smaller image, I want the right image. Kubrick shot that movie one way and that's the only way I want to see it.

[Conan The Barbarian]

Well, HBO Max presents the theatrical cut without black bars. Unless they bastardized it for streaming. But either way, the image must be shrunk somewhat to fit height wise even if you include the space the black bars take up.

Batman V Superman Ultimate has black bars on HBO Max.

I still don't think Snyder or DC earned the scope of Justice League. They went all Endgame with no build up. I don't even understand where they would've went after this if Snyder did get his way. They just went too big too fast. They went from, "Oh hey, look, Batman and Superman are fighting" to massive world ending war in an instant. The stakes don't feel big because they barely built up these big villains.

Man of steel and bvs were the buildup to justice league. Justice league was the middle movie. Then parts 2 and 3 were to finish it, and the heroes respective solo movies to tie into parts 2 and 3.

Look up the info on the storyboards of how those movies were to go. Those were made in 2015 way before endgame and it was eerily similar( almost like someone leaked that info to Feige). Part 3 had that endgame type of battle finale against Darkseid, but instead of the entire dc universe against the army of Apokalips, it was the justice league backed up by the entire armed forces of the world United.

If HBOMax decides to continue that universe on their platform, Snyder has said that the story has changed dramatically ever since. Hence why those boards are on display in Dallas at the att discovery district. I got to see them in person and it was a sight to read and see the beautiful art of Jim Lee in front of you.

Not everything has to be the way marvel does things. They do their thing, doesn’t mean everything has to follow suit.

[burnmotherfucker!]

I still don't think Snyder or DC earned the scope of Justice League. They went all Endgame with no build up. I don't even understand where they would've went after this if Snyder did get his way. They just went too big too fast. They went from, "Oh hey, look, Batman and Superman are fighting" to massive world ending war in an instant. The stakes don't feel big because they barely built up these big villains.

Part of the problem is that the studio green lit Snyder's vision and then a third of the way through jumped ship and now they've pretty much screwed themselves. They're hoping Joker and The Batman save them. I bet they're also kinda hoping people don't like the Snyder cut. I bet people will like it. Anyone who's actually taken the time to watch Man of Steel and BvS UC and is a longtime fan of comics and these characters seems to be coming around on them if they didn't like them to begin with.

In terms of not starting a story so late in the game like BvS and Justice league do. I mean, Frank Miller? The Dark Knight Returns? Pretty much the book that changed comics for the better and brought them into the modern era? Yeah, that one starts at the end too.

It's the same thing that goes through my mind when people go on and on about how Batman would never kill or never use guns in the comics and Snyder is just trying to be edgy. I mean do these people even read comics? The basis of that complaint kinda requires they do. But if they did they'd know there are a ton of comics that play with the archetypes. And they're usually the best stories. So what gives? I don't get it. The criticisms don't really hold up under scrutiny. The films do.

Man of steel and bvs were the buildup to justice league. Justice league was the middle movie. Then parts 2 and 3 were to finish it, and the heroes respective solo movies to tie into parts 2 and 3.

Look up the info on the storyboards of how those movies were to go. Those were made in 2015 way before endgame and it was eerily similar( almost like someone leaked that info to Feige). Part 3 had that endgame type of battle finale against Darkseid, but instead of the entire dc universe against the army of Apokalips, it was the justice league backed up by the entire armed forces of the world United.

If HBOMax decides to continue that universe on their platform, Snyder has said that the story has changed dramatically ever since. Hence why those boards are on display in Dallas at the att discovery district. I got to see them in person and it was a sight to read and see the beautiful art of Jim Lee in front of you.

Not everything has to be the way marvel does things. They do their thing, doesn’t mean everything has to follow suit.

Thank you so much for explaining all that. I wanted to but I'm also a bit worried I have hijacked this thread today. haha Sorry folks.

It really is a problem of the studio's own making though so I don't blame a person for not knowing any of these details. But it is sad we'll most likely never see that film that takes place in the apocalypse. As much shit as Snyder gets, he's actually pretty faithful to the source material he draws inspiration from. Moreso than Burton's and Nolan's films when you really look at it.

As far as Marvel goes. Thank god there's people out there doing things different than them. I don't begrudge anyone who likes those films but they are certainly not made for me. I get people like them. What I don't understand is why people who don't like darker DC stuff feel the need to spend hours of their day talking about how much they dislike them. Seems like a waste of time to me.

[Magnetic]

I still don't think Snyder or DC earned the scope of Justice League. They went all Endgame with no build up. I don't even understand where they would've went after this if Snyder did get his way. They just went too big too fast. They went from, "Oh hey, look, Batman and Superman are fighting" to massive world ending war in an instant. The stakes don't feel big because they barely built up these big villains.

THIS!
Aaaaaand they tried to throw comedy in there via witty banter among people who are essentially strangers. Oh we're fighting to save the world and everything sucks, let's crack a joke?

[Conan The Barbarian]

THIS!
Aaaaaand they tried to throw comedy in there via witty banter among people who are essentially strangers. Oh we're fighting to save the world and everything sucks, let's crack a joke?

You just described the mcu.

[Magnetic]

True, but I think they were more familiar with each other?

[allegate]

wow. some fucking incredible aspect ratio takes in here this morning.

[Haysey_Draws]

Who knew that the real Justice League were the aspect ratios we made along the way.

[october_midnight]

These reviews. Yeeeeesh.

[Space Suicide]

https://v.redd.it/nvf7yjawm5n61

[october_midnight]

Just the worst.

[Wretchedest]

Predictably, you can't solve this movies problems with some reshoots and a re-edit. The AV club has a solid read indicating that some of the stronger elements of the Whedon version have actually been cut.

At least there's this: the original justice league was forgettable. I forgot it came out. I forgot I saw it. I forgot every scene in it except the one where superman wakes up and fights the other heroes. The existence of this cut now burns the movie into memory for all it's lavishness, pretentiousness, and Zack snyder shallowness. The smoke is much better than the fire

[neorev]

https://v.redd.it/nvf7yjawm5n61

That scene was pretty cringe.

Best Reddit comment goes to...
"So when Leto gets the chance to show us his joker untainted by studio interference, it's still just a Jim Carrey Riddler impression?"

[r_z]

I very much enjoyed reading the review on Roger Ebert's site. It concludes:

"Zack Snyder's Justice League" is so fragmented that it could've been titled "32 Short Films about the Justice League." It often makes momentous promises or sets up seemingly important relationships which it promptly forgets. It's so bombastic that it makes "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice" seem modest. It will mainly please the people who clamored for it. Even fans of the genre might consider it a bit much. It owes as much to rock concerts, video games, and multimedia installations as it does to commercial narrative filmmaking. It's maddening. It's monumental. It's art.

[burnmotherfucker!]

[WorzelG]

I very much enjoyed reading the review on Roger Ebert's site. It concludes:

"Zack Snyder's Justice League" is so fragmented that it could've been titled "32 Short Films about the Justice League." It often makes momentous promises or sets up seemingly important relationships which it promptly forgets. It's so bombastic that it makes "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice" seem modest. It will mainly please the people who clamored for it. Even fans of the genre might consider it a bit much. It owes as much to rock concerts, video games, and multimedia installations as it does to commercial narrative filmmaking. It's maddening. It's monumental. It's art.

This review really makes me want to watch it, the 4 hour run time gave me pause but when it said it's split into chapters and episodic, this is perfect for the way my family watches TV. I'm assuming you will have to have watched Man of Steel and BVS beforehand though

[burnmotherfucker!]

"The new movie — and make no mistake, it really is a new movie — is more than a vindication of Snyder’s original vision. It’s a grand, nimble, and immersive entertainment, a team-of-heroes origin story that, at heart, is classically conventional, yet it’s now told with such an intoxicating childlike sincerity and ominous fairy-tale wonder that it takes you back to what comic books, at their best, have always sought to do: make you feel like you’re seeing gods at play on Earth."

https://variety.com/2021/film/review...ll-1234928648/

[october_midnight]

"But the movie's soul, such as it is, remains unimproved, and at 242 minutes, very few of them offering much pleasure, it's nearly unendurable as a single-sitting experience."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...ue-film-review

[neorev]

"The film seems to want more of everything except the quality that it most needs but can’t fully comprehend."
- The New York Times

"Zack Snyder's Justice League is just another bad Justice League."
- Entertainment Weekly

"Snyder throws all of his footage back into the mix, with little apparent awareness of what’s vital and what’s superfluous."
- AV Club

"Snyder makes a massive demand of an audience’s time and patience, and to be blunt, he does not earn it."
-'Collider

[allegate]

This is like the Poe's Law of hate clicks, you can't tell if someone actually loves or hates it and isn't just doing it for the inevitable traffic.

I wonder if it's even possible to give it a fair and impartial viewing? Listening to Kevin Smith gush about it might be closest because he's said before that he'd heard from people who saw the rough cut / worked on the original cut and that what you see now is basically exactly what they told him the movie should have been.

OTOH, Kevin does not have a "like" setting really so there's that.

[neorev]

"Why would that become his thing?"

[Hyperpower]

It really is a problem of the studio's own making though so I don't blame a person for not knowing any of these details. But it is sad we'll most likely never see that film that takes place in the apocalypse. As much shit as Snyder gets, he's actually pretty faithful to the source material he draws inspiration from. Moreso than Burton's and Nolan's films when you really look at it.

As far as Marvel goes. Thank god there's people out there doing things different than them. I don't begrudge anyone who likes those films but they are certainly not made for me. I get people like them. What I don't understand is why people who don't like darker DC stuff feel the need to spend hours of their day talking about how much they dislike them. Seems like a waste of time to me.

As someone who loved the darker DC content i can say that i was looking forward to some of those stories but as you pointed out, the studio messed with the vision of a director they decided to hire so /shrug

As for MCU, i think its incredible what they have pulled off and yeah generally i have enjoyed what the MCU has done. It's not exactly what i wanted but i guess im not calling the shots.. its like the saying goes.. beggars can't be choosers. Something definitely has to be said about not interfering with a vision once a decision is made to hire someone to do the job.

i guess that is the biggest difference between MCU and DCU on the big screen at least.

[WorzelG]

Seriously though, no way you could expect anyone except hardcore fans to sit through something 4 hours long in one go - could it not have been split into a few films though LOTR style? Thinking about it, why can’t cinemas show something more episodic over a few weeks. Why does cinema HAVE to be a film of x length, and not TV style

[marodi]

Ultimately, even if the Snyder Cut were a masterpiece, it doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. That version of the DCEU is already half gone. The Batfleck has left the building, taking with him most of BvS and JL and we now have the Battison, of which we know next to nothing about. Superman may or may not regenerate. Cyborg got the boot...

Really, that ship has sailed.

What is left is the irony of having a movie called Justice League, with Zack Snyder as the credited director and another movie called Zack Snyder's Justice League.

[Wretchedest]

I'm down for a 4 hour super hero movie if those 4 hours are fun or exciting or engaging. Endgame is 3 hours and even if you watch it back to back with infinity war, it's a lot of fun and it goes by pretty quick.

[october_midnight]

Pretty much. Endgame felt like a solid 2.5 hours tops. I feel like I'm still watching BvS.