Marilyn Manson Sexual Abuse Allegations

[Mantra]

I actually think it's faulty logic to assume that anyone should have known that Brian Warner was committing these awful crimes simply by assessing the kind of person he appeared to be. This is a notoriously unreliable way of determining who is and is not an abuser. It doesn't even work with people you actually know in your personal life, let alone with public figures that you have absolutely no first hand relationship with.

And the thing about this faulty logic is that it can easily be used in reverse. So when some upstanding "pillar of the community" is accused of abuse, people will defend him based solely on this flimsy character assessment stuff. "Nah, he just doesn't seem like the type to me."

All that stuff is meaningless. You don't sniff out abusers by figuring out who seems like "the type." There is no "type." Anyone can be abusive.

[Magtig]

I'm honestly REALLY surprised that you guys are burning your records or whatever.
I do NOT see how any of this stuff is, like, new?

Anyway, as far as separating art from artist: you guys like Bowie, right?
Fucked fourteen year old girls: check.
Into Nazi shit: check.

Idk. People are really fucked up.

Sometimes I think that people think we're WAY more evolved, as a species, than we actually are.

Edit: I'm not excusing the behavior. don't get me wrong. it's just that, again, yeah...none of this shit surprises me.

Many of us checked out around 20 years ago. I just didn't pay close attention to Manson after Holywood. He seemed more 'sad washed-up drunk' to me than 'beating, kidnapping, serial-rapist, pedo monster.' I always figured he was sleazy, but the sheer brutality does shock me, yes.

I guess you were more tuned in than most? Looking back, it makes me ask how I could have missed the signs. I took many of his lyrics and statements to be metaphors, allegories, or more than anything wannabe pathetic posturing. Now, I wish that's what they had been.

I didn't think he was literal or sincere. That's precisely how he set things up. He really wasn't sincere quite often, and he really did say wild things to get a rise out of people. That all turned out to be a ruse to cover for his abusive behaviors.

Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk

[GibbonBlack]

The thing with me is. All of their music up to around 2001 is such an integral part of who I am I just can't not listen to it anymore. I literally grew up with it.

However, due to Manson's declining likeability and me being far past the age where I'd find anything he does impressive I've long since disconnected the man from the music in my head. I literally had some of his stuff play when my phone was on shuffle the other day and I didn't even connect it to, or think about, the news stories that I've been reading the past week. It's so bizzarre to me that he's been so far gone, for so long, that I don't even connect him to his own music anymore.

[Magtig]

The thing with me is. All of their music up to around 2001 is such an integral part of who I am I just can't not listen to it anymore. I literally grew up with it.

However, due to Manson's declining likeability and me being far past the age where I'd find anything he does impressive I've long since disconnected the man from the music in my head. I literally had some of his stuff play when my phone was on shuffle the other day and I didn't even connect it to, or think about, the news stories that I've been reading the past week. It's so bizzarre to me that he's been so far gone, for so long, that I don't even connect him to his own music anymore.

Sometimes I think I'm weird for not listening to most of the music I did in my youth. I still listen to NIN, but not the albums I grew up with (too intense on the daily to listen to a concept album about suicide on repeat). Most the rest have dropped off the map. Point is, it's totally okay and normal to grow out of things.

Go find a boatload of new and exciting music on aoty.org! New music is the fountain of youth. Have fun! Music is, and always will be, evergreen. It doesn't go downhill; people just stop discovering.

Sorry for the drift. Back to soul-crushing sexual asshattery.

Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk

[Magnetic]

Fuck him! Agreed.

Speaking of things feeling a whole shit-ton creepier:

I was just physically repulsed when I watched this. I felt like just yelling WTF? And then feeling a queasy stomach.

Sometimes I think I'm weird for not listening to most of the music I did in my youth. I still listen to NIN, but not the albums I grew up with (too intense on the daily to listen to a concept album about suicide on repeat). Most the rest have dropped off the map. Point is, it's totally okay and normal to grow out of things.

Go find a boatload of new and exciting music on aoty.org! New music is the fountain of youth. Have fun! Music is, and always will be, evergreen. It doesn't go downhill; people just stop discovering.

Sorry for the drift. Back to soul-crushing sexual asshattery.

Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk

Nah, I'm kinda the same way. I listened to a lot of other stuff in my younger years that just doesn't jive as much. I don't reach for Skinny Puppy as much as I did 20+ years ago. I have some mixes that have some oldies & goodies from the 80s/90s bands. TDS and the Fragile are the only albums from my teens that I still listen to frequently, and With Teeth/ Year Zero are in constant play, along with the Slip & Add Violence.

I feel lucky I was never into Manson. I saw him when he toured with NIN in 1994, and a lot of friends thought he was amazing. I just never jived with it. It felt dirtier/ cheaper than what I was into. His fans were more rabid, IMO. When the MM cover of Tainted Love came out, I was snobby and thought the Coil version was better. My attitude towards MM was that I always thought he was sleazy and played upon his schtick because he didn't have the raw talent to let go of the persona. There's a way to be authentic without becoming a caricature. It looks like the persona was a way to hide other nefarious behaviors.

[GibbonBlack]

It doesn't go downhill; people just stop discovering.

Hi! I listen to plenty of new music I didn't mean to imply otherwise

I was just saying that that music, for me, isn't connected to the man anymore

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

https://www.thecut.com/2021/02/game-...AJnDDFMHoylq2Y

Another actress comes forward talking about how Manson tortured and abused her.....

[WorzelG]

https://www.thecut.com/2021/02/game-...AJnDDFMHoylq2Y

Another actress comes forward talking about how Manson tortured and abused her.....

One of the takeaways I got from this, apart from the obvious, was that the actors like Norman Reedus and Jonny Depp aren’t as culpable as you might think given she said everyone had to put on a face like nothing wrong was happening when they came to visit.

I wonder when Billy Corgan is going to make some comment given that Manson is his child’s godfather and he was recently waxing lyrical about what a great friend Manson was!

another takeaway is why is there this ‘statute of limitations’ around domestic abuse that is a pathetic 3 years now just slightly improved 5 years. If you have evidence of abuse why is there even a statute of limitations at all? I did look it up in the UK and for criminal charges there aren’t these limitations here, just for civil charges. Seems like a California license to abusers to me.

ive also been thinking about how you’d try and stop this in future, is there any way you could put it in law that if management of an artist can be proved to know about and cover up this shit they can be liable? That at least would see shitty artists dropped by management sooner

[october_midnight]

This bloated sack of shit really chased a woman with an axe? Fuck me launch this shitpile into the sun.

[eachpassingphase]

The amount of copium I’m seeing huffed by Manson fans is bewildering. In every corner of the Manson-related internet, people are arguing if this is “cAnCeL cUlTuRe” or well deserved consequences.

Part of me wishes the official BBS or MansonUSA forums were still open like the old days, so I could kick back and watch the fandom collapse in on itself like a dying star.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[october_midnight]

Those places may not be around anymore but you can still always check out that shitty Provider Module foruOHHHHHHHH WAIT

[eachpassingphase]

Those places may not be around anymore but you can still always check out that shitty Provider Module foruOHHHHHHHH WAIT

Lmao did it close? I missed that up thread apparently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[october_midnight]

Yup it's been 'undergoing maintenance' for about a week now. I took 10 seconds to see how much of a shitpile it was, and the MM nuthanging had reached an almost overwhelming level. The mere mention of 'now come on guys, I love MM as much as the next fan but....come on' by 1-2 ppl (that I saw anyways) was met with the expected vitriol.

[firewlker]

I'm dying that a fan account on instagram made a post crediting Perou (because of the photo) with a text by the account owner defending Manson and someone posted on the mm subreddit thinking it was Perou words.

[voidnz]

Manson is a disgusting human, and the more information that comes out makes me disgusted at his band mates and other people around him WHO DID NOTHING! They sat and watched this shit. You can't say Manson kept all of them quiet. They're gutless and anyone who took part should also be held to account.

[Sutekh]

I will say that Pogo has been saying Manson was an actual nazi and a violent asshole for years now, and tbh a lot of people dismissed it as sour grapes or exaggeration, or craziness on his part

[Erneuert]

This bloated sack of shit really chased a woman with an axe? Fuck me launch this shitpile into the sun.

"Danny... Dan! I’m comin’! I’m right behind ya!"

Scarily I can picture him doing that with his penis in one hand and axe in the other while off his face. Just a normal day at the MM residence.

[sonic_discord]

Manson is a disgusting human, and the more information that comes out makes me disgusted at his band mates and other people around him WHO DID NOTHING! They sat and watched this shit. You can't say Manson kept all of them quiet. They're gutless and anyone who took part should also be held to account.

I keep seeing this notion come up and while I'm sure someone in his band or in his orbit may have been aware of some of this stuff (though perhaps not to the full extent), I don't think it's fair to assume they all knew about it and did nothing. It's possible some people just assumed it was consensual (like "Alex" in the Esme Bianco article). I'm sure he kept the worst of this kind of behavior behind closed doors. (I'm not defending any of this awful behavior, just pointing out that we maybe shouldn't assume everyone connected to him was guilty of covering for him)

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Manson reddit basically has him pegged as an innocent victim lmao

[Lastentrance]

I keep seeing this notion come up and while I'm sure someone in his band or in his orbit may have been aware of some of this stuff (though perhaps not to the full extent), I don't think it's fair to assume they all knew about it and did nothing. It's possible some people just assumed it was consensual (like "Alex" in the Esme Bianco article). I'm sure he kept the worst of this kind of behavior behind closed doors. (I'm not defending any of this awful behavior, just pointing out that we maybe shouldn't assume everyone connected to him was guilty of covering for him)

Agreed. I’m sure most that were close to him may have been privy to bad behaviour, but we can assume even some of his closest friends had no idea of the depths of his depravity. Much like Ian Watkins from Lostprophets - the most sordid stuff was kept away from all of those close to him. This doesn’t take anything away from the Wolf Alice story about his manager, however. And all of the above being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of his allies are aware. Super critical of those close to him supporting him through this - he deserves nothing.

[Jinsai]

I mean, man I've heard some screwed up stories about him, stuff that was just ridiculous. It was on par with the whole "he got his ribs removed" or that he was Paul in the Wonder Years. But I believe a lot of these stories now that I've heard over the years, and a lot of it is completely insane... but now it sounds believable.

[Sutekh]

So Fred Sablan (goon moon member who played bass for MM for a few years) has been sharing Esme Bianco's accounts of what happened between her and MM - interesting, as I've seen many videos of MM pushing him to the ground or otherwise being a dick to him onstage.

So far as far as I know, Sara Lee Lucas, Fred and TR are the only ex colleagues (saying "collaborator" feels weird in this context) to denounce MM/side with his accusers.

[WorzelG]

I think Shooter Jennings will be the clincher career wise, because MM can’t do his own music and if no one will do it for him or play with him he doesn’t really have a career

[fillow]

I think Shooter Jennings will be the clincher career wise, because MM can’t do his own music and if no one will do it for him or play with him he doesn’t really have a career

There's always Twiggy lol

[WorzelG]

So Fred Sablan (goon moon member who played bass for MM for a few years) has been sharing Esme Bianco's accounts of what happened between her and MM - interesting, as I've seen many videos of MM pushing him to the ground or otherwise being a dick to him onstage.

So far as far as I know, Sara Lee Lucas, Fred and TR are the only ex colleagues (saying "collaborator" feels weird in this context) to denounce MM/side with his accusers.

I had to look up Sara Lee Lucas as I didn’t realise it was part of the stupid naming convention, I just thought they were a woman who collaborated with him! What did he say as I can’t find anything on google?

[Sutekh]

I had to look up Sara Lee Lucas as I didn’t realise it was part of the stupid naming convention, I just thought they were a woman who collaborated with him! What did he say as I can’t find anything on google?

Calls him a sociopath & narcissist, stands with the victims
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKyE0qHH-3p/?hl=ml

[Jinsai]

I think Shooter Jennings will be the clincher career wise, because MM can’t do his own music and if no one will do it for him or play with him he doesn’t really have a career

I think the chances of Shooter continuing to work with him now are very unlikely. I haven't heard him speak out about all this, but it seems he's shut down his Twitter account.

[wizfan]

So far as far as I know, Sara Lee Lucas, Fred and TR are the only ex colleagues (saying "collaborator" feels weird in this context) to denounce MM/side with his accusers.

Don't forget Wes Borland. He was a guitarist for MM in 2008.

[Sutekh]

I think the chances of Shooter continuing to work with him now are very unlikely. I haven't heard him speak out about all this, but it seems he's shut down his Twitter account.

Billy Corgan also locked down and wiped his Instagram when all this kicked off

[sonic_discord]

Billy Corgan also locked down and wiped his Instagram when all this kicked off

What did I miss?? I know they're friends, so I've been wondering if Billy would say anything on the subject, but I haven't been watching his Instagram lately.