The 2024 Election Thread - The Most Important Election of Our Lifetime... Again

[Deacon Blackfire]

100% delusional. It is not happening. I get that the media is getting a lot of clicks on this subject, but it's absurd. I'd bet my house on it. This is the "Bernie Sanders is going to turn the convention" of 2024. It's absolute nonsense.

It's also laughably dumb that it's all coming down after one debate. We are going to ignore Biden's policy success and his incumbent advantage, his appeal to the middle, and the the fact he is running against an equally old, convicted felon, who mishandled the entire pandemic. Biden a man who everyone knows simply has a stutter, performs poorly in *one* debate, and we are going to ignore every historical precedent and run a brand new candidate with 4 months to spare? What are you people smoking?

I'm not saying it's actually going to happen, I'm just saying it should if the Democrats actually want to win. You're welcome to think I'm delusional or laughably dumb all you want, this was not performing poorly in one debate, it was a mask off moment for how nonfunctional Biden actually is. Doesn't matter that Trump is as old or a convicted felon or worse in just about every way, his following is large and dedicated and not going away and we need every vote we can get. Ignoring that Biden is clearly no longer fit for office in the eyes of the vast majority of the public will make us hemorrhage support in November. If you think that can be safely bypassed and that Biden will be carried back into office off the strength of his "policy success" and incumbent advantage and "appeal to the middle" at this point, good luck and godspeed. You can have some of what I've been smoking but I want some of yours, I think it's stronger!

I would also say it's counterproductive to our success to mire in this impossibility. We are chilling our own voters even further and many of the ideas are also, honestly, fundamentally anti democratic, the notion that we would simply appoint a candidate without a primary election is a really terrifying precedent to set.

I feel that ignoring what nearly everyone felt about what they saw and just buckling down with what we have until November not only wouldn't be right - it would chill our voters even more. It would just be another way of announcing the Democratic party's contempt for the electorate, a testament to how completely their electoral strategy begins and ends with "you have to vote for us because we're your only option." And I completely understand your misgivings about an open convention appointing a candidate without a primary. It's not something I'd suggest or want them to consider except under circumstances as dire as this. But I truly, genuinely believe that if it's Biden in November, we lose and lose big and I cannot resign myself to that possibility when it's not technically locked in yet.

[Wretchedest]

I think t would be a huge risk to run another candidate
I think because of all the election lies people tend to forget: Biden won by a fairly large margin, and Hilary losing certain states like Michigan was something of a blip. I'm in as much a doom spiral as any one else and I'm not in love with Biden or anything but I think he is more broadly popular and Trump is more unpopular than people realize. Trump supporters are so loud, and certainly they're great at controlling the narrative and leading the conversation through sheer stubbornness, and so I think we sometimes lose track of the reality of quiet support.

[versusreality]

It really comes down to this: what do the independent/undecided voters in swing states think? Do they think they'd vote for Biden after the debate?

The reason why people are focusing on the debate and not his record (imo) is that optics outweigh accomplishments in this society, sad as it is. People complain about the price of groceries and gas because it's an optical thing. They don't want to hear that gas is actually cheaper than it has been in the past, because they want the gas prices and grocery prices to be 2017 numbers, which is not realistic.

It's a risk to run Biden. It's a risk to run another candidate.

I do fear racism and sexism playing a factor in a loss of votes if Harris is the candidate.

[richardp]

All I'm saying, is all the Dems in Washington saying "the public just saw what we all have known for 2.5 years", then WHY. THE. FUCK. did you bet everything on him being THE guy, AGAIN.

It's a total copout. Biden will not be replaced, it make zero sense, will almost ensure Trump wins even more so. They made their bed with this guy, and now they're gonna have to deal with it. Simple as that. I mean really, what kind of look is it for the party when their guy has ONE bad debate performance and they throw him under the bus immediately. When, not if, WHEN, the democrats lose everything in November, the fucking DNC will be the only ones to blame.

Just utterly shameful and embarrassing.

[ltrandazzo]

The person who has total control over an open convention happening or not is Joe Biden. Legally, he has enough delegates bound to him via the primaries to lock up the nomination so there's not a subverting process that exists to remove him from the ticket. It is solely up to him to decide if he is going to continue in this race or not.

I think that this debate should be happening based on the debate performance and its culmination of our fears and concerns about Joe being the right person to move forward BUT, it is solely up to him to continue in this race or not. If he decides to push forward and that continues through the official nomination process, then we all have to rally behind him because that fuck, Trump, has his Project 2025 asshats ready to end democracy as we know it.

[BRoswell]

To be honest, I'm approaching this election the same way I did the last election: I'm not voting for Biden, I'm voting against Trump. People can hem and haw about how both are equally as bad, but we've gone almost four years without having a crisis every damn day because of King Dipshit not knowing how to do the job. I don't have to like Biden to know that having Trump back in office would just make things absolutely miserable for everyone.

[M1ke]

To be honest, I'm approaching this election the same way I did the last election: I'm not voting for Biden, I'm voting against Trump. People can hem and haw about how both are equally as bad, but we've gone almost four years without having a crisis every damn day because of King Dipshit not knowing how to do the job. I don't have to like Biden to know that having Trump back in office would just make things absolutely miserable for everyone.

This is fair. Even if Biden is a senile bedridden mess, he's surrounded himself with people competence. Trump has surrounded himself with the worst of the worst.

There's no competition here.

[Wretchedest]

Another concern I have here is that in replacing Biden we will end up with another bad candidate. The DNC isn't magically going to become wise in its choosing. Rumors and spitballing have us at Harris or Newsom, whom I both really like, being from California, but the broader public has already been pitted against both of these people and California. We are gonna end up with another bland old dude as a candidate, not some progressive with ideas that can meet this political moment.

[Jinsai]

I’ll say it again, but the only conceivable candidate that can replace Biden and win in November is Kamala Harris. Her general policies continue the good stuff we like about Biden, she’s young and quick-witted, articulate, and let’s just be honest and admit that she’s a photogenic, good-looking, strong woman… and she’s running against the guy who defeated the first realistic female candidate for president riding on a wave of misogyny, which ultimately resulted in the overturning of Roe v Wade. She’d be running against the adjudicated rapist “grab em by the pussy” guy. The spray-tanned white guy who looks like an aged Furby.

On every level, it’s a good choice. I guarantee you, a lot of heads in the DNC agree with me 100%, and they are urging Biden to step down for the good of the country. Kamala Harris would mobilize the floundering liberal establishment. She’s not another old straight white guy. She’s exciting.

Kamala Harris: The first female president, and the second to not be white. The Republicans wouldn’t have time to generate a smear campaign to dig deep enough before November. Kamala Harris + the anti-Trump vote will win.

It’s got to happen before the convention. If it doesn’t happen, it’s president Trump again, and this time it’s going to be so much worse.

I’ve heard people grumble about her, but let’s be honest here. Raise your hand if you wouldn’t vote for Kamala Harris over Trump. Raise your hand if you’d actually prefer Biden to be on the ticket. Let’s live in fantasy-land for one second, and pretend it’s actually possible.

[Deacon Blackfire]

All I'm saying, is all the Dems in Washington saying "the public just saw what we all have known for 2.5 years", then WHY. THE. FUCK. did you bet everything on him being THE guy, AGAIN.

To be fair if any Democratic official in Washington outside of the administration had really tried to raise the alarm about the Biden's questionable state, they would have been completely vilified by the administration and framed as a spoiler for the Trump campaign. We've literally gone through years of them downplaying any and all concerns about his age and well-being, and that's part of why the fallout from the debate has been so colossal. The people I am truly furious at are his close family and inner circle in the administration, who have witnessed his decline firsthand and all the while prioritized keeping it a secret over things as pivotal as the next election. This was not protecting the privacy of a private citizen's health, it was concealing the fact that our country's most powerful elected official is so out of it in his advanced age that he has no business being president right now, let alone serving another term. Their irresponsibility and shortsighted self-interest is what got us here. I have spent a lot of time on this board talking about the Democrats taking big, stupid risks that get us all fucked but this is outrageous and shameful even by their standard.

I don't have to like Biden to know that having Trump back in office would just make things absolutely miserable for everyone.

None of this is in dispute here. We all know how much worse Trump is and will be, especially in the shadow of these insane Supreme Court decisions. That the stakes of the election are so high is precisely why having Biden be our candidate is so inexcusable. "I'm not Trump" was enough to get Biden elected while we were still dealing with that fucking asshole. I have zero faith that it will be enough to get him reelected.

They made their bed with this guy, and now they're gonna have to deal with it. Simple as that. I mean really, what kind of look is it for the party when their guy has ONE bad debate performance and they throw him under the bus immediately.

I agree, it's a very bad look! I just think pretending that what we saw last week doesn't matter is an even worse look. We have two very bad options - one engages with this terrible situation honestly, the other treats the entire electorate like a fucking idiot. A hypothetical not-Biden faces an uphill battle and could obviously lose. I still think that option, as unprecedented as it is, is far better than embracing this bitter, withering denialism that the Biden people are clinging to. Resistance liberals loved using a certain Nineteen Eighty-Four quote during the Trump presidency - "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." Chugging ahead with Biden would kind of be doing exactly that.

[M1ke]

I'm not knocking Kamala Harris in any legitimate way, but the smear campaign on her would be name-calling, and claiming that Trump just proved the democrats can't do it by scaring Biden out of the race. It makes Trump look even scarier, which only emboldens him. What Biden did well the first time was exposed him as nothing but a schoolyard bully.

He called her "Crooked Hillary" and him "Sleepy Joe", that's really his whole platform.

I'm not sure what degrading nickname he'd come up with, but that's all he'd really do. That's really all he's done to any of his opponents.

[Jinsai]

They can spin it however they want. The truth is, the Trump camp knows Kamala Harris is a more formidable opponent, and name calling? Oh well. Two can play at that, when you’re going up against a racist, rapist, geriatric convicted felon exhibiting signs of clear mental decline and instability.

And Trump didn’t “get Joe out.” Joe got himself out. Nobody thinks Trump won that debate with his staggering intellectual prowess. He just lied while his opponent short-circuited.

We say “we need a young candidate, bringing something new to the table, who isn’t an old white man… someone smart, good looking, energetic… who backs policies and social reform we can get behind… who could trounce Trump in a debate and make him look ridiculous… and while we’re dreaming, wouldn’t it be great if this was a female candidate?” and then we act like that’s some fantasy unicorn that doesn’t exist and never will.

She’s right there, next in line to the presidency.

[versusreality]

Amid multiple articles on Biden's staff panicking etc, here is an article which states Trump would prefer to run against Biden with reasons explained in the article:
https://www.axios.com/2024/07/05/beh...la-harris-plan

[Deacon Blackfire]

Makes perfect sense at this point. They know Biden is dead in the water but someone else like Harris this late in the game is a wildcard and might have a chance, however remote.

Anyway if we have to deal with this shit I'm at least glad that the rich Hollywood people who dumped significant amounts of cash into this campaign are flipping out about how badly they got conned and outright deceived by those close to the president.