Random NIN Questions

[sheepdean]

Wow. Have you ever listened to Year Zero??????? Have you listened to 'Capital G'?????? Or 'The Hand That Feeds'????? Have you watched the multiple interviews in which Trent rails against the Republican agenda of piousness and GREED??????? It's pretty clear what he stands for. Does him sitting at an apple event contradict all that? No, not really. It's just a bit odd is all I'm saying.

Him not being a republican doesn't really mean much, there's some pretty nasty democrats out there (and some very nice republicans).

Trent didn't go to a major label to "make more money." He's said multiple times that the choice to go to a major label was so he could focus on making music and not have to worry about all the other stuff that comes with having to release a record on an independent label.

No he did. Like, TVT weren't hindering his music making, to be able to "focus on music" means he didn't have to worry about money. Not blaming the dude, I'd do the same, but it's hardly appealing to this idealised aesthetic you have.

Also how much of YZ's story was actually by Rob? Because comparing TR and RS's tweets and blog posts etc, the whole theme feels WAY more Rob than Trent, imo - and they both created the world.

[BRoswell]

Like, TVT weren't hindering his music making...

Considering that he had to record Broken under various aliases in different studios lest TVT found out, I wouldn't say that's true.

[WorzelG]

I think people put WAY too much stock in the themes of Year Zero making Trent some revolutionary or something, I think it was just a cool idea leading to a cool aesthetic. I mean the idea of Trent as a revolutionary is almost as amusing as Russell Brand being a revolutionary - oh wait..

[sheepdean]

Considering that he had to record Broken under various aliases in different studios lest TVT found out, I wouldn't say that's true.

That was more because he was doing it against the label's wishes though wasn't it? He was signed to them and yet making a record without them

[BRoswell]

That was more because he was doing it against the label's wishes though wasn't it? He was signed to them and yet making a record without them

Not just that, but Trent wanted to get away from the sound of Pretty Hate Machine and TVT wanted another album in that vein. I believe they were also pushing producers on him that he had no interest in working with.

[Khrz]

Just because you're against the Republican politics doesn't mean you walk around raising a righteous fist in the air. FFS, you have Bono who's wayyyyyyy more politically engaged, who made a very huge (if controversial) PR stunt with Apple quite recently. Just because you make a record and a handful of songs about how pissed you are at the state of things doesn't make you an activist, and just because you're making money and supporting industries doesn't mean you're betraying your humanist ideals.
And YZ is a goddamn record, not a pamphlet. If it was a book it would be a hamfisted 1984-slash-Fight Club fanfic. It's as deep as me during my teens wishing we didn't need money and dreaming about the humanity helping the starving and the diseased. It's nice, makes you feel good about yourself, and is also the My Little Pony of politics. It was a metaphor about events that didn't need to be treated as such because they were right in our face, that was connect-the-dots-make-believe. Great record, nice universe, unnecessary analogies.

[billpulsipher]

Considering that he had to record Broken under various aliases in different studios lest TVT found out, I wouldn't say that's true.

Thats a cute little story he told back in the day to sound anti-establishment...Recording in small studios in the backwoods of the world under different names, making this top secret project etc etc......what was TVT going to do, throw him in jail? He could have recorded Broken for TVT and handed them the album, worst thing they could do is not release it

[BRoswell]

Thats a cute little story he told back in the day to sound anti-establishment...Recording in small studios in the backwoods of the world under different names, making this top secret project etc etc......

Do you have any evidence to the contrary, Billy Boy? Cause I'm looking at the record right now, and there's SIX different studios listed in the credits.

Just because you're against the Republican politics doesn't mean you walk around raising a righteous fist in the air. FFS, you have Bono who's wayyyyyyy more politically engaged, who made a very huge (if controversial) PR stunt with Apple quite recently. Just because you make a record and a handful of songs about how pissed you are at the state of things doesn't make you an activist, and just because you're making money and supporting industries doesn't mean you're betraying your humanist ideals.
And YZ is a goddamn record, not a pamphlet. If it was a book it would be a hamfisted 1984-slash-Fight Club fanfic. It's as deep as me during my teens wishing we didn't need money and dreaming about the humanity helping the starving and the diseased. It's nice, makes you feel good about yourself, and is also the My Little Pony of politics. It was a metaphor about events that didn't need to be treated as such because they were right in our face, that was connect-the-dots-make-believe. Great record, nice universe, unnecessary analogies.

To be fair, Trent has never been subtle.

[Vertigo]

I think people put WAY too much stock in the themes of Year Zero making Trent some revolutionary or something, I think it was just a cool idea leading to a cool aesthetic.

Year Zero's an album that deals with the morality of large organisations, so given that Apple has a reputation for immoral and uncharitable activities, yeah, it does come across as a bit hypocritical.

That said, it's not like he's working directly for Hitler, or the Koch brothers. And as he's an obvious technophile, it's easy to see the attraction, advantages and sympatico of working for the world's largest technology company. It's like Phoebe working for the big massage parlour chain in Friends.
It doesn't bother me at all, but I can see why our local bastions of standards and morality feel differently.

[sheepdean]

As long as I don't have to own an iDevice to hear new NIN/TR releases, who actually gives a fuck?

[Khrz]

Year Zero's an album that deals with the morality of large organisations, so given that Apple has a reputation for immoral and uncharitable activities, yeah, it does come across as a bit

Well, it was about a lot of things, and each is entitled to pick one out of the bag, but I would say it was more about governmental abuse of power, and attempts to control the populace by every mean necessary. But it was also about aliens, a giant ghost hand in the sky, and how drinking too much water makes you brainwashed. None of which are actually relevant to Apple so far

Alright, being a bit too snarky here, and I understand why Reznor's trajectory would puzzle some. But really, the guy just cares about making music. He's a human being, and is interested/concerned by what's happening around him, which is already better than half the population on Earth.
But the guy's not an icon, he would be a pretty terrible one anyway. We all make choices and decisions that contradict each other, every day. I don't give money to every homeless guy I see in the street, although I'm outraged when they're driven out of the cities during the touristic seasons. I'm not volunteering to read books to the sick and dying, even though I think we're not doing enough for them.
We mostly all do that, being all nice and pure if we think about it, then carefully avoiding to address those ideals when reality comes knocking.
The guy loves environment, hates war, adores tech, enjoys money. There's no reason to blame him for being no better than most of us, I think...

[botley]

TR did record Broken in various studios under pseudonyms, Bill Kennedy confirmed it in an interview about engineering that album. He said he was hired surreptitiously for a session without the studio telling him who the artist really was (but Kennedy guessed it ahead of the first day, based on a few clues). That was just to avoid TVT taking ownership of the recording, which TR didn't want to do without a better deal in place. Eventually, when Interscope bought out the TVT contract, he got one — not because he out-manoeuvred the corporation with sly business acumen, but because they paid out.

[howdidislipinto]

Wow. Have you ever listened to Year Zero??????? Have you listened to 'Capital G'?????? Or 'The Hand That Feeds'????? Have you watched the multiple interviews in which Trent rails against the Republican agenda of piousness and GREED??????? It's pretty clear what he stands for. Does him sitting at an apple event contradict all that? No, not really. It's just a bit odd is all I'm saying.

Every note of that music was recorded on Apple computers, every bit of that artwork was created on Apple computers, every selfie/dick pic Trent or Rob took during that era was taken on an iPhone, and even the live performances were run on -- what was it, Logic MainStage? So again, no, it's really not odd for Trent to be at an Apple event. Whether we're into Apple or not, everything that comes from Trent or Rob comes from that ecosystem (unless they're absolutely unable to do so, I'm sure).

Edit: I'm not even saying you're wrong to point out any hypocrisy, I'm just saying that the events of this week are nothing new/out of the ordinary. I too have a hard time reconciling using the products I love with how they're made. I'm sure anyone with a conscience does.

[BRoswell]

Every note of that music was recorded on Apple computers, every bit of that artwork was created on Apple computers, every selfie/dick pic Trent or Rob took during that era was taken on an iPhone, and even the live performances were run on -- what was it, Logic MainStage? So again, no, it's really not odd for Trent to be at an Apple event. Whether we're into Apple or not, everything that comes from Trent or Rob comes from that ecosystem (unless they're absolutely unable to do so, I'm sure).

And, if the alternate Gave Up music video is any indication, Trent has been using Apple computers on records since at least Broken.

[Khrz]

That's great, but I've been a member of Greenpeace, protested with them, gave them a bunch of money, I still own a computer and a smartphone (which are some of the most polluting things around) which rely on nuclear energy, and make a whole lot of choices in my life that totally contradict my political/social stances.
That was my point : we do things, we say things, and according to circumstances we do others.
The guy's a musician, not a political leader, there's absolutely no reason to hold him accountable of anything or put him under any more scrutiny than your neighbor... Just because Reznor sang Kumbaya at a rally or two doesn't mean he's devoted to a cause that influences the rest of his life... He thought Bush was particularly atrocious (which isn't really mindblowing), that doesn't imply he shouldn't get involved with money-making processes and industries... You're painting him like the left-wing revolutionary that he certainly isn't. Even a large amount of republicans thought the Bush era was a terrible one.

[Halo Infinity]

And, if the alternate Gave Up music video is any indication, Trent has been using Apple computers on records since at least Broken.

From what I've also remembered, Trent also used a Macintosh Plus when he was recording Pretty Hate Machine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_...ine#Background

[Khrz]

You consistently misread my words, intentions, and point. Also, wow, do you misread me.
I'm not discussing this anymore, I really don't feel like dissecting every word from your posts, especially since they get increasingly confrontational each time someone disagrees with you.


But seriously though, I'm as leftist as they go, but "republican apologist" ? really ?

[sheepdean]

Sorry I snapped. I'm very passionate about NIN and what it stands for. And it clearly does stand for something. If that turns people off, so be it.

No, it used to stand for something. Now it's on its hands and knees.



Yes I recycled that joke from another thread, but it was perfect

[Vertigo]

That was terrible, @sheepdean . You're plainly a Capital G apologist.

[sick among the pure]

Trent has been a fan of Apple products for as long as we can tell. He now is able to work with the company to have a music streaming service that he is helping curate. No matter what NIN fans' opinions are about Apple, Trent is obviously happy with them. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
I'm happy for him. If you're not, that's cool. But it has zero to do with NIN at this point.

[eversonpoe]

also, can we stop pretending that NIN "stands for something" already? we're not talking about a punk band that writes song after song about socio-political issues and actively protests things. we're talking about trent who has written a few politically-charged songs, who has strong opinions about certain things, who was very anti-bush (and with good reason), but who would never use the NIN moniker as a vehicle for great change. he's a musician and an artist who is entitled to his opinions and expressing them in any way he likes, but it's not usually through his music.

[howdidislipinto]

If he's only anti-Bush like you say, why would he vocally rail against Republicans and religion in general in past interviews?????? "The crazy rightwing religious morons" is how he's referred to them in the past. Quit fooling yourself that Trent was only anti-Bush. Not to mention, most of his music is anti-everything republican and conservative in this world. "God is dead and no one cares!" I don't think republicans would happily sing along to that. Trent lets the music do the talking. Also: do you not remember the projection of McCain's face turning into Bush's face as the backdrop to some of the NIN shows in 2008? If he only hates Bush, why was he showing everybody how much he hated McCain???????? And yes, NIN does stand for something. It stands for everything Trent Reznor stands for; because Trent Reznor is NIN; and NIN is Trent Reznor.

But hating the post-2000 Republican party doesn't mean you're far left-wing, it means you're rational. You're seeing one statement and drawing a thousand conclusions from it. To bring it back to your original point, yes, he hated Bush -- why would that mean he's anti-business? What does voting for Obama have to do with his beliefs on commerce? Is Apple even that greedy? They make products that do what they say (for the most part). On the list of corporations we need to start tearing down, let's face it, Apple isn't even remotely close to the top -- it's just the shiniest. I just still can't see what disliking organized religion/right wing nutjobs has to do with whether you attend a tech event.

You know who hates George W Bush even more than Trent? Al Gore, and he was in that Apple audience too.

[eversonpoe]

If he's only anti-Bush like you say, why would he vocally rail against Republicans and religion in general in past interviews?????? "The crazy rightwing religious morons" is how he's referred to them in the past. Quit fooling yourself that Trent was only anti-Bush. Not to mention, most of his music is anti-everything republican and conservative in this world. "God is dead and no one cares!" I don't think republicans would happily sing along to that. Trent lets the music do the talking. Also: do you not remember the projection of McCain's face turning into Bush's face as the backdrop to some of the NIN shows in 2008? If he only hates Bush, why was he showing everybody how much he hated McCain???????? And yes, NIN does stand for something. It stands for everything Trent Reznor stands for; because Trent Reznor is NIN; and NIN is Trent Reznor.

1. i never said he WASN'T against republicans and religion in general or was ONLY anti-bush. where are you getting that? i was simply distilling it down to its core.

2. "anti-bush" is kind of a blanket statement for being opposed to the entire bush administration and all of the shitty decisions they made. so that includes mccain and advisors, etc.

3. why are you so insistent on NIN being this anti-right wing, anti-business, anti-religious entity? you're pulling the same shit that people did when trent put the line "oh dear lord, hear my prayer" into "find my way" and started saying he believes in god, and everyone started freaking out and getting angry that NIN was no longer "anti-christian" (which was never the case to begin with. trent has always believed in god, as he stated in interviews, but he doesn't like how organized religions warp things)

4. I AM A HUGE LEFT WING PERSON. i find the republican party in general to be fucking insane, and the legislation that so many republicans have managed to instate is ridiculous and damaging. but i don't give a shit if trent wants to hang out with one of his favorite technology companies, get paid for having some input, and keep making great music on the side. because what the hell does that even have to do with the republican party? or anything? and why do you care so much?

5. year zero was about a FICTIONAL dystopian future. yes, it has echoes in reality, but i think you're reading into it a bit too much.

[sheepdean]

If he's only anti-Bush like you say, why would he vocally rail against Republicans and religion in general in past interviews?????? "The crazy rightwing religious morons" is how he's referred to them in the past. Quit fooling yourself that Trent was only anti-Bush. Not to mention, most of his music is anti-everything republican and conservative in this world. "God is dead and no one cares!" I don't think republicans would happily sing along to that. Trent lets the music do the talking. Also: do you not remember the projection of McCain's face turning into Bush's face as the backdrop to some of the NIN shows in 2008? If he only hates Bush, why was he showing everybody how much he hated McCain???????? And yes, NIN does stand for something. It stands for everything Trent Reznor stands for; because Trent Reznor is NIN; and NIN is Trent Reznor.

Trent is anti-organised religion, but you do know he's not atheist right?


And disliking McCain is something a normal person did, not some super political liberal.

[sheepdean]

Trent is not an atheist, but he's certainly an anti-theist.

Citation needed. Remember that Heresy is written from the view of the protagonist of the story.

[Khrz]

"I believe in god,"he says. "I was brought up going to Sunday school and church, but it didn't really mean anything. Things upset me a lot. It was just a theme I kept coming back to-religion, guilt and doubting. I believe there's a god but I'm not too sure of his relevance."

A 24 years old Reznor. After 15 second of search.

1994 Reznor says :

M: Actually, you can interview yourself.I can leave and you can just flip through these, say the questions and than answer them. So, do you believe in God?
T: Um, I believe in, you know, some sort of a God.I don't really know what I believe in right now. It's been something that's been plaguing me for, I won't say plaguing me,but there's a desire for me to get myself this spiritually.I wanna start by learning more about some Eastern mentalities that I don't know that much about. I know what I don't believe in and just through, I think, the inevitable process of maturity and trying to keep and open mind, and trying to analyze why I feel a certain way, sorta, in things, make sense to me, like karma. Certain things don'tmake that much sense to me,like organized western religion.I understand why people need religion and don't think it's wrong for people that are into it at all, but it didn't work for me.I don't want to sit and pretend that it did because I'm afraid that I might get punished for not believing in some fairy tale.
I have concepts I feel pretty strongly about, but I haven't done my disertation on it and created my own religion. Certain things make sense to me - I innately feel them versus being taught them. You know what I mean? I believe that there is a connection between everybody and nature in partiuclar and that rather than overly concern yourself,"Why are we here? What is our purpose? What are we supposed to do?" I don't think we're meant to know that, you know? Every philosopher in the history of time's come to the same conclusion. At the end of the day, I've proven that that's a bottle of beer, and that I'm going to die and , you know, that's it.

and 2014 Reznor says :

Do you believe in god ?]

“I do. I take comfort in thinking there’s some purpose and higher power of some sort. I’m not affiliated with any particular religion but that gives me some sense of comfort. I’ve had some dark days through the years and been through some shit that makes me think there is some reason here and it’s beyond just physics and biology.”

[eversonpoe]

How can you sit there and say Year Zero has nothing to do with politics? Yes, YZ is about a dystopian future, but one brought about by the insanity of the politics at that time. Trent even makes this clear, so why do you argue it??????????? In a nutshell, Year Zero is what happens when a moronic leader (like Bush) gives into greed and religious nonsense and brings about the world's end as a result of his moronic decisions. Trent made that pretty clear and the lyrics are also testament to it. What do you think the song 'God Given' is about????????? Or 'The Great Destroyer'?????????

literally point out to me where i said "year zero has nothing to do with politics" and i will bake you an entire batch of chocolate chip cookies (i make really good cookies) and mail them to you. otherwise, STOP PUTTING WORDS/IDEAS IN EVERYONE'S MOUTHS.

you are WAY too up in arms about this, and you keep consistently speaking on behalf of someone you're not (trent). calm down, learn to let a few things go, and we can all go back to getting along smoothly. until then, stop pretending people are stoking the fire under your ass and realize that the rest of us are simply trying to have an interesting discussion based on FACTS.

[GibbonBlack]

"year zero has nothing to do with politics"

Cookies please

[GibbonBlack]

Right. FACTS. I'm providing video snippets and articles as evidence and you're the one talking about facts. And how am I speaking on behalf of someone when I'm providing the evidence of Trent saying the stuff?????

Also he is, at the time of typing this, yet to provide cookies

[Hazekiah]

Not to interrupt the pissing contest here or anything...but it occurs to me that it's been a REALLLLLLY long time and I've STILL never heard an UNCENSORED version of NIN's remix of "Lapdance" by N.E.R.D.

Anyone?

:-\