Controversial Music Opinions...

[r_z]

But take a song like EL-P's "Habeas Corpses". Apart from being dark as fuck, that shit has a ton of replay value. It's like a (sci-fi) movie. I'd revisit a great movie.

[allegate]

It's actually based on a true story about Eddie Vedder.

Vedder's birth name was Edward Severson III, but he grew up as Edward Mueller. His parents divorced when he was a baby, and his mom remarried and Ed grew up thinking his stepdad was his real dad. Eventually, his mom told him the truth, but his real dad had died by then of some debilitating disease like MS or something, after having been in a wheelchair. Lots of Ed's lyrics are about his stepdad, who he hated. I believe Vedder is Ed's mom's name.

There is an Alive "trilogy," the others being "One" and "Footsteps." The trilogy is fictitious and semi-autobiographical, obviously; the mother, in her grief about the dead dad, commits incest with her son, which leads him to go on a killing spree in "Once," and then he's in prison for it in "Footsteps."

I know way too much about Pearl Jam.

you do, almost as if this was a PJ forum instead. lol

also thank you for that, saved me from a lot of typing!

[allegate]

7 Mary 3 were able to get the "rur" in on a line in the chorus of "Cumbersome." That has to be a record.

Iar herve becororme cumbersorme tahr myr gurrl

I....guess? live Jason is little slurry but the studio version is fine.

edit: I will clarify to "a lot" slurry. I found some bootlegs on the internet archive and was excited but oh man they are so bad in some of them. Like, I'm almost convinced that it was a 7m3 cover band or something that got really drunk because they had performance anxiety.

[allegate]

First, people here say they don't like lyrics that are too simple and set everything out on a platter.

Then, people say they don't like having to dig through people's personal lives to figure things out.

This isn't 100% biographical.

Ed's real dad was, in real life, gay. But, he's not going to spell that out in a song. In real life, his mom supposedly had problems with a gay guy being "dad" to her kid. But, the 2nd husband ended up being abusive. Ed leaves blanks for people to fill in, themselves. With their own realities or whatever.

I didn't require a secret decoder ring to figure all of this out, either. The narrative seemed pretty simple, to me. Even without Ed's true story. What's the problem? Seriously. If you remove all of your biases, it's easy.

It's like "Jeremy."

Jeremy "spoke in class today."

When I heard it, it wasn't OBVIOUS how Jeremy "spoke" ... UNTIL I SAW THE VIDEO.

And, even when I saw the video, I thought he'd killed himself, NOT EVERYBODY ELSE. I guess that's how my mind saw things in the lyrics, AND THAT'S OKAY, TOO.

If I'm to pick apart a stupid PJ song, it's the much-beloved "Black." THAT is a fucking annoying song.

PJ fans have actually said this to me: "Black isn't only the best PJ song, IT'S THE BEST SONG OF ALL TIME."

WTF.

It's a rambling, insipid, whiny, angry, dumb song for scorned assholes.

Or, hey, try figuring out "Yellow Ledbetter." If you can understand one word he's saying.

Black isn't even their best song, but people have dumb opinions all the time.

you want to figure out if a pearl jam fan is shitty, ask them what "Better Man" is about. There are people who play it at their weddings!

and the lyrics to Ledbetter change constantly.

Vedder has been known to change the lyrics of the song when singing it live, so it is difficult to know if what he is singing at the time are the original lyrics from 1991. In the liner notes for Lost Dogs, McCready said:

"A riff loosely based on something...I had during the 'Ten' sessions. I thought it was pretty. Eddie started making up words on the spot and we kept them. I still don't know what it's about and I don't want to! I love it. Fans like it too!"^[10]

[allegate]

My problem with Vedder is not too different than what I said about that dogshit Verve song. It’s actually worse, though, because I’ve heard way more Pearl Jam than Verve. The way Vedder enunciates is nails on a chalkboard to me.

Using the aforementioned “Alice.”

”WHHHAAAAH CAN YEH SEDDY HO A LOW TUH HEEZERDEE.”

The band have good songs (“Yellow Ledbetter,” “Once” and especially “State Of Love And Trust”) but Vedder’s delivery is always just garbled garbage which sucks because sometimes the words are well written.

lately he's started pronouncing the H's in words. Like that skit in...some animated show...where the silent H is before the W but pronounced: HWAT instead of wat. didn't do it much on the latest album but for a couple times, thankfully.

[allegate]

I really like "Alive" and Pearl Jam, but yes they (and most Seattle bands) had many clones with varied results:

- Pearl Jam: Creed, Seven Mary Tree, PAW (awesome band, btw)
- Nirvana: Candlebox, Bush, Silverchair, Puddle of Mud
- Alice in Chains: Godsmack
- Soundgarden: Days of the New

I guess like every good genre it became a joke, but i actually like some of the bands listed there and i do prefer them to the bullshit you listen on the radio nowadays.

at least the rest of the bands had the decency to not name themselves after one of the songs.

DotN and soundgarden? that's a logical leap I'd like to read more about. DotN was very acoustic based, but I guess you're comparing the singers? Travis was more of a baritone to Chris'...well, all over the place.

Also the 2nd DotN is secretly pretty good because the sheer amount of production that he threw into it like it was a Beach Boys album.

edit: yes, my encyclopedic knowledge of useless things meant I didn't have to look up any of the names I just threw out.

[elevenism]

Now we're clear that Jeremy DID kill HIMSELF, and not everybody else, right? That was in Richardson, right down the street from me at the time.

I'm SURE you guys have seen these Yellow Ledbetter "lyrics" at some point, but if you haven't, this is fucking hilarious. Even if you HAVE, it's funny to watch it again.

One of my best friends is into PJ like I'm into NIN, and swears he knows the lyrics and it's about a dude getting lost in a mine, and being scared.



Edit: @allegate , people play better man at their WEDDINGS? It pretty blatantly says "She lies and says she still loves him, can't find a better man," or something like that, doesn't it?

That's one of the only early Pearl.Jam songs I really don't like, btw. It's like it was written for (more) mass appeal, on purpose.

[Jinsai]

totally surreal to see people talking about Days of the New. I haven't googled yet, but I believe if I remember right they had a self-titled album where the cover art was like a tree with a reddish background? I remember it being like Silverchair, where it was a bunch of kids who looked like Hanson rocking out or something... I remember thinking Days of the New was more like Alice in Chains acoustic. Silverchair were doing stupid rawk songs with lyrics like "yeah fat boy!" while they rant about the evils of capitalism.

At least Hanson was like "doo wop doopy dop do wop deee dop a doopy dop dee bob dooo wop!" and at some point, strangely convinced Peter Christopherson from COIL to direct one of their music videos.

EDIT: but we gotta admit that the reason Yellow Ledbetter remained a b-side is because the estate for Jimi Hendrix would have sued if that had wound up on an album, right?

[henryeatscereal]

at least the rest of the bands had the decency to not name themselves after one of the songs.

DotN and soundgarden? that's a logical leap I'd like to read more about. DotN was very acoustic based, but I guess you're comparing the singers? Travis was more of a baritone to Chris'...well, all over the place.

Also the 2nd DotN is secretly pretty good because the sheer amount of production that he threw into it like it was a Beach Boys album.

edit: yes, my encyclopedic knowledge of useless things meant I didn't have to look up any of the names I just threw out.

Oh yes, naming yourself after the band you are cloning it's cringeworthy.
Yes, i'm mostly comparing "Days of the New" to Soundgarden because of the singers, mostly the looks, that one it's actually chilling, the guy looked "more Cornell" than the real Cornell, lol.





Also this song:

Sounds like a Soundgarden B-Side from the Superunknown era

[elevenism]

totally surreal to see people talking about Days of the New. I haven't googled yet, but I believe if I remember right they had a self-titled album where the cover art was like a tree with a reddish background? I remember it being like Silverchair, where it was a bunch of kids who looked like Hanson rocking out or something... I remember thinking Days of the New was more like Alice in Chains acoustic. Silverchair were doing stupid rawk songs with lyrics like "yeah fat boy!" while they rant about the evils of capitalism.

At least Hanson was like "doo wop doopy dop do wop deee dop a doopy dop dee bob dooo wop!" and at some point, strangely convinced Peter Christopherson from COIL to direct one of their music videos.

EDIT: but we gotta admit that the reason Yellow Ledbetter remained a b-side is because the estate for Jimi Hendrix would have sued if that had wound up on an album, right?

It was recently brought to my attention that the lyrics to MMMBop were surprisingly dark- the parts that weren't the mmm bop a bob hmm bop, a Scooby dooby do, hmm bop, yeah yeah yeah

You have so many relationships in this life
Only one or two will last
You go through all the pain and strife
Then you turn your back and they're gone so fast
Ooh yeah
And they're gone so fast, yeah
Oh, so hold on to the ones who really care
In the end they'll be the only ones there
When you get old and start losing your hair
Can you tell me who will still care?
Can you tell me who will still care?
Oh, will care
Plant a seed, plant a flower, plant a rose
You can plant any one of those
Keep planting to find out which one grows
It's a secret no one knows
It's a secret no one knows
No one knows
In an mmmbop they're gone
In an mmmbop they're not there
In an mmmbop they're gone
In an mmmbop they're not there
Until you lose your hair, ooh
But you don't care, yeah

So, basically, very few people will care about you, and it's impossible to know who they are, and even if you figure it out, they're gone before you know it, because life is fleeting.
You missed it because you were too busy "mmm bopping" along.

It's fairly insightful, and clever how they hid it and made it into a meta sort of thing.

[Jinsai]

It was recently brought to my attention that the lyrics to MMMBop were surprisingly dark- the parts that weren't the mmm bop a bob hmm bop, a Scooby dooby do, hmm bop, yeah yeah yeah

You have so many relationships in this life
Only one or two will last
You go through all the pain and strife
Then you turn your back and they're gone so fast
Ooh yeah
And they're gone so fast, yeah
Oh, so hold on to the ones who really care
In the end they'll be the only ones there
When you get old and start losing your hair
Can you tell me who will still care?
Can you tell me who will still care?
Oh, will care
Plant a seed, plant a flower, plant a rose
You can plant any one of those
Keep planting to find out which one grows
It's a secret no one knows
It's a secret no one knows
No one knows
In an mmmbop they're gone
In an mmmbop they're not there
In an mmmbop they're gone
In an mmmbop they're not there
Until you lose your hair, ooh
But you don't care, yeah

So, basically, very few people will care about you, and it's impossible to know who they are, and even if you figure it out, they're gone before you know it, because life is fleeting.
You missed it because you were too busy "mmm bopping" along.

It's fairly insightful, and clever how they hid it and made it into a meta sort of thing.

Isn't this the thing that is so maddening about this song though?

It's some baby-faced twelve year old trying to tell you that life is short, and when you're old you'll find stuff out about how fleeting it is. And the drummer is roughly five years old. And then, I guess, after the twelve year old lectures you about how life is hard, the chorus is "DOO BOP DIPPY BOP DIPPY WHOOPY DIP BOB BOOB DOP!"

[henryeatscereal]

totally surreal to see people talking about Days of the New. I haven't googled yet, but I believe if I remember right they had a self-titled album where the cover art was like a tree with a reddish background? I remember it being like Silverchair, where it was a bunch of kids who looked like Hanson rocking out or something... I remember thinking Days of the New was more like Alice in Chains acoustic. Silverchair were doing stupid rawk songs with lyrics like "yeah fat boy!" while they rant about the evils of capitalism.

At least Hanson was like "doo wop doopy dop do wop deee dop a doopy dop dee bob dooo wop!" and at some point, strangely convinced Peter Christopherson from COIL to direct one of their music videos.

EDIT: but we gotta admit that the reason Yellow Ledbetter remained a b-side is because the estate for Jimi Hendrix would have sued if that had wound up on an album, right?

I'm going to leave my hill and defend Silverchair here, the first album is great ...not "Great-Dirt" or "Great-Superunknown", but a great listen and it's also cool they recorded that being 15 years old or something...

[GulDukat]

Isn't this the thing that is so maddening about this song though?

It's some baby-faced twelve year old trying to tell you that life is short, and when you're old you'll find stuff out about how fleeting it is. And the drummer is roughly five years old. And then, I guess, after the twelve year old lectures you about how life is hard, the chorus is "DOO BOP DIPPY BOP DIPPY WHOOPY DIP BOB BOOB DOP!"

For a bunch of kids it's not bad. Never paid attention to the lyrics before. Listened to the song for the first time since probably 1997. Didn't really like it then and don't really like it now either.

[elevenism]

Isn't this the thing that is so maddening about this song though?

It's some baby-faced twelve year old trying to tell you that life is short, and when you're old you'll find stuff out about how fleeting it is. And the drummer is roughly five years old. And then, I guess, after the twelve year old lectures you about how life is hard, the chorus is "DOO BOP DIPPY BOP DIPPY WHOOPY DIP BOB BOOB DOP!"

Maybe the kid has an " old soul" and was already into nihilism.

Idk, I'd never caught the lyrics. I still think it's clever. I don't exactly LIKE the song, but it has more meaning than I thought.

Silverchair: yeah, the lyrics are simplistic, but I like the radio song.

[Jinsai]

For a bunch of kids it's not bad. Never paid attention to the lyrics before. Listened to the song for the first time since probably 1997. Didn't really like it then and don't really like it now either.

That's the thing though, it's almost as if "what the fuck is wrong with you!? You're a grown ass man, criticizing a bunch of little kids who formed a band and did well for themselves? Are you insane!?"

And... yeah.. I get it. It's cute. There's just something really off-putting to me about a kid singing about life lessons. This goes up to Alanis Morrisette, at 21, writing a concept album about relationships, heartbreak, and how to be strong. Alanis just turned old enough to buy a pint of beer, and she's telling me "you live, you learn, you hurt, you lose, you learn, you blaaaaaaaaah." But at least she's 21 and has SOME concept of the concepts she's talking about. To hear Hanson sing about "life is short and hard -> weeeeeeee booo bop bippy bop" is a LITTLE more obnoxious than a sophomoric Alanis entertaining stalker fantasies while she shares "her truth." It's like if you had to hear a kid sing a heartfelt song about drug addiction, and then they reveal to you it's about a horrible Sour Patch Kid habit.

[allegate]

totally surreal to see people talking about Days of the New. I haven't googled yet, but I believe if I remember right they had a self-titled album where the cover art was like a tree with a reddish background? I remember it being like Silverchair, where it was a bunch of kids who looked like Hanson rocking out or something... I remember thinking Days of the New was more like Alice in Chains acoustic. Silverchair were doing stupid rawk songs with lyrics like "yeah fat boy!" while they rant about the evils of capitalism.

At least Hanson was like "doo wop doopy dop do wop deee dop a doopy dop dee bob dooo wop!" and at some point, strangely convinced Peter Christopherson from COIL to direct one of their music videos.

EDIT: but we gotta admit that the reason Yellow Ledbetter remained a b-side is because the estate for Jimi Hendrix would have sued if that had wound up on an album, right?

actually the tree was on all of the covers.



and probably, yet they left "Given to Fly" on the album even though it's a Zeppelin riff.

[allegate]

Now we're clear that Jeremy DID kill HIMSELF, and not everybody else, right? That was in Richardson, right down the street from me at the time.

I'm SURE you guys have seen these Yellow Ledbetter "lyrics" at some point, but if you haven't, this is fucking hilarious. Even if you HAVE, it's funny to watch it again.

One of my best friends is into PJ like I'm into NIN, and swears he knows the lyrics and it's about a dude getting lost in a mine, and being scared.

Edit: @allegate , people play better man at their WEDDINGS? It pretty blatantly says "She lies and says she still loves him, can't find a better man," or something like that, doesn't it?

That's one of the only early Pearl.Jam songs I really don't like, btw. It's like it was written for (more) mass appeal, on purpose.

your friend is an idiot.

Better Man is about an abusive relationship, yes. also it's originally a song from Eddie's first band back when he was living in California. he didn't want to record it but the band convinced him to. so much like Kurt he wasn't trying to make 'pop' songs, he's just really good at it.

[allegate]

I'm going to leave my hill and defend Silverchair here, the first album is great ...not "Great-Dirt" or "Great-Superunknown", but a great listen and it's also cool they recorded that being 15 years old or something...

their other albums all have very strong songs on them.

[allegate]

Oh yes, naming yourself after the band you are cloning it's cringeworthy.
Yes, i'm mostly comparing "Days of the New" to Soundgarden because of the singers, mostly the looks, that one it's actually chilling, the guy looked "more Cornell" than the real Cornell, lol.





Also this song:

Sounds like a Soundgarden B-Side from the Superunknown era

huh, fair point.

counterpoint:


this is hilarious considering that he ended up with meth and she ended up with the Pussycat Dolls.

A young Nicole Scherzinger put her studies at Wright State University on hold to sing backing vocals for Green. Meeks noted that he wanted a female singer to "deliver some more world/operatic textures and sounds" and that her contributions were not buried in the back but instead featured prominently alongside his. Scherzinger performs on “Flight Response,” “The Real,” “Take Me Back Then,” “Phobics of Tragedy,” “Bring Yourself,” and “Last One.” Meeks claims that after touring for the album, the two grew apart creatively and that despite being an "amazing entertainer," she "didn’t seem to understand music very well."

Apparently the label that owns his recordings put an album out in March on spotify. Weird because four of those songs were released decades ago.

[burnmotherfucker!]

the lyrics to Ledbetter change constantly.

Around 2003 there are a lot of live versions that seem to be the most consistent and also the most clear. 2:07:15 of this video is about the best live version I've ever heard of it.

[Archive_Reports]

This live version of Emotion Sickness is amazing.



There's a lot of "old man yelling at a cloud" going on in here.

[elevenism]

This live version of Emotion Sickness is amazing.



There's a lot of "old man yelling at a cloud" going on in here.

To be fair,
We're old men.
And there are clouds.

[halo eighteen]

This live version of Emotion Sickness is amazing.

Love love love that song - I was literally going to post that! haha. That band did an absurd amount of maturing from their early albums. And Daniel Johns is just a really solid artist in general; Dissociatives (with the Presets) and DREAMS (with Luke from Empire of the Sun) are great projects he's also been associated with over the years.

[Archive_Reports]

Love love love that song - I was literally going to post that! haha. That band did an absurd amount of maturing from their early albums. And Daniel Johns is just a really solid artist in general; Disassociatives (with the Presets) and DREAMS (with Luke from Empire of the Sun) are great projects he's also been associated with over the years.

I was never really into them and they're one of those bands who comes across better live than recorded. Not sure they get enough credit for being good musicians and songwriters.

To be fair,
We're old men.
And there are clouds.

tobefair.gif

A lot of lyrics are kind of crappy and pseudo-profound. While I much prefer when lyrics are open to interpretation, I also appreciate someone writing something that's laid out bare.

[elevenism]

tobefair.gif

A lot of lyrics are kind of crappy and pseudo-profound. While I much prefer when lyrics are open to interpretation, I also appreciate someone writing something that's laid out bare.

Oh, I'm down for all sorts of lyrics: everything from Da Art of Storytelling by Outkast, wherein the entire point is doing what it says on the tin, to, idk, insanity like this:



I just like this thread for the back and forth.

[r_z]

the lyrics to Ledbetter change constantly.

Those liner notes from Lost Dogs were great. I remember one by Ed (I can't remember which song it was for) going:

"If you love someone, set them free.
If somebody loves you, don't fuck up."

[GulDukat]

I really like this song:


Great bass line, cool horns, etc. I really liked this band. That's probably controversial.

[allegate]

This live version of Emotion Sickness is amazing.



There's a lot of "old man yelling at a cloud" going on in here.

ah, most of us are old men now though. I'm less than a year from turning 45 which is just about how old my mom was when she bought me my first Pearl Jam cassette. "Have you heard of this band toe jam and this other one meatballs?" (she also bought Meat Loaf Bat Out of Hell 2)

[allegate]

I really like this song:


Great bass line, cool horns, etc. I really liked this band. That's probably controversial.

wait, liking Extreme and Nuno Bettencourt is controversial?

Also I spelled that right on the first try, woo.



Watch that and see the look on their faces when Brad Paisley walks in and then the change when he starts to shred. He's a country artist with some milquetoast songs but he can play. It's just too bad that it's only the non-radio songs on his albums where he shows that.

[elevenism]

wait, liking Extreme and Nuno Bettencourt is controversial?

Also I spelled that right on the first try, woo.

Haven't thought about that band in awhile. But I was ten and an aspiring guitar hero: it certainly seemed reasonable enough to me.